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Bill Cosby vs. Barack Obama: What's The Difference?

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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:08 PM
Original message
Bill Cosby vs. Barack Obama: What's The Difference?
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 07:09 PM by Rage for Order
Bill Cosby gave a speech in which he called out the absent fathers in the African American community, and he decried the lack of importance placed on education in parts of the African American community, and was subsequently blasted and berated on DU. People called him an Uncle Tom, self-hating racist, bigot, etc. However, Obama gave a similar speech on Father's Day, yet the reaction here was quite different. The message did not change; only the messenger changed. So I ask you, what's the difference between Obama's message and Cosby's message? Why applaud one and loathe the other?

http://my.barackobama.com/page/community/post/stateupdates/gG5nFK

"But if we are honest with ourselves, we’ll admit that what too many fathers also are is missing – missing from too many lives and too many homes. They have abandoned their responsibilities, acting like boys instead of men. And the foundations of our families are weaker because of it.

You and I know how true this is in the African-American community. We know that more than half of all black children live in single-parent households, a number that has doubled – doubled – since we were children. We know the statistics – that children who grow up without a father are five times more likely to live in poverty and commit crime; nine times more likely to drop out of schools and twenty times more likely to end up in prison. They are more likely to have behavioral problems, or run away from home, or become teenage parents themselves. And the foundations of our community are weaker because of it.

How many times in the last year has this city lost a child at the hands of another child? How many times have our hearts stopped in the middle of the night with the sound of a gunshot or a siren? How many teenagers have we seen hanging around on street corners when they should be sitting in a classroom? How many are sitting in prison when they should be working, or at least looking for a job? How many in this generation are we willing to lose to poverty or violence or addiction? How many?

But we also need families to raise our children. We need fathers to realize that responsibility does not end at conception. We need them to realize that what makes you a man is not the ability to have a child – it’s the courage to raise one.

The first is setting an example of excellence for our children – because if we want to set high expectations for them, we’ve got to set high expectations for ourselves. It’s great if you have a job; it’s even better if you have a college degree...

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/billcosbypoundcakespeech.htm

Ladies and gentlemen, these people set -- they opened the doors, they gave us the right, and today, ladies and gentlemen, in our cities and public schools we have 50% drop out. In our own neighborhood, we have men in prison. No longer is a person embarrassed because they’re pregnant without a husband. No longer is a boy considered an embarrassment if he tries to run away from being the father of the unmarried child.

Ladies and gentlemen, the lower economic and lower middle economic people are not holding their end in this deal. In the neighborhood that most of us grew up in, parenting is not going on. In the old days, you couldn’t hooky school because every drawn shade was an eye. And before your mother got off the bus and to the house, she knew exactly where you had gone, who had gone into the house, and where you got on whatever you had one and where you got it from. Parents don’t know that today.

I’m talking about these people who cry when their son is standing there in an orange suit. Where were you when he was two? Where were you when he was twelve? Where were you when he was eighteen, and how come you don’t know he had a pistol? And where is his father, and why don’t you know where he is? And why doesn’t the father show up to talk to this boy?

Fifty percent drop out rate, I’m telling you, and people in jail, and women having children by five, six different men. Under what excuse? I want somebody to love me. And as soon as you have it, you forget to parent. Grandmother, mother, and great grandmother in the same room, raising children, and the child knows nothing about love or respect of any one of the three of them. All this child knows is “gimme, gimme, gimme.” These people want to buy the friendship of a child, and the child couldn’t care less. Those of us sitting out here who have gone on to some college or whatever we’ve done, we still fear our parents. And these people are not parenting. They’re buying things for the kid -- $500 sneakers -- for what? They won’t buy or spend $250 on Hooked on Phonics.

Now, look, I’m telling you. It’s not what they’re doing to us. It’s what we’re not doing. 50 percent drop out. Look, we’re raising our own ingrown immigrants. These people are fighting hard to be ignorant. There’s no English being spoken, and they’re walking and they’re angry. Oh God, they’re angry and they have pistols and they shoot and they do stupid things. And after they kill somebody, they don’t have a plan. Just murder somebody. Boom. Over what? A pizza? And then run to the poor cousin’s house.
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MisterHowdy Donating Member (295 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
1. I love the Cos.
Cosby Mysteries, best show ever.

Too bad about his son. He's never been the same since.
Take what he says with a grain of salt.
He's a tad bitter, and, IMO has a right to be.

n/t
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. I was wondering when someone would draw this comparison
I noticed the "different" reaction when Obama said same - interesting...
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Cosby said more than the comments about fathers...
Cosby sounded like a grouchy old man who doesn't like "the way the kids are dressing and talking" these days. He criticized their style and the way they speak. For a guy who wears the uglies tsweaters on the planet, he has alot of nerve.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Cosby was just a bit too holier than thou in his criticism
I have to agree there - I found Cosby's remarks abrasive whereas Obama seemed to be more "fatherly advice" giving on Fathers Day.
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
24. I agree that the tone was different
Obama was eloquent, and Cosby was angry. However, I think people need to be angry about the situation. Anger denotes passion - if you don't care about something it's not going to upset you. Certainly Obama's message was more restrained, but he has to be careful about what he says given his current position.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. I agree.
I wouldn't say "interesting"... but I would say "fascinating"...
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silverojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. I reacted the same to both.
:)
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Sundoggy Donating Member (489 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
47. Yup - a few weeks ago this was "Klan thinking" here n/t
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
3. My position is the same
Bravo Cos and Obama
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Carnea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Same here they both speak an important truth. nt
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Drunken Irishman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:12 PM
Response to Original message
4. "You see, Theo, ya' take the Jell-o and the Kodak and the Ghost Dad..."
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Algorem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
7. no roofies?
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:03 PM
Response to Reply #7
34. ?
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. The significant difference
Cosby has a long history of adultery, to use a quaint phrase. He's hardly been the model husband. So, when he spouts off about how man are supposed to behave, a lot of what he says is simply being blown out of his ass.
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:21 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. How long? And after he started his diatribes, did he continue to cheat?
Or, if nothing else, would he admit to having psychological problems by having an insatiable desire to pork every chick on the farm, so to speak?

Maybe there is hypocrisy, but that doesn't mean he's not wrong that men still ought to control themselves.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:36 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I make no statement as to the correctness or
incorrectness of his statements. Whether I agree with him or not is irrelevant.

It has to do with authority, and when you're caught with your pants down, and even confronted with the possibility - quite real - of having fathered a child out of wedlock, you do give up any pretense to credibility. So Bill Cosby could afford to support more than one family; that's the only difference between him and all the guys who, as you so delicately put it, pork every chick on the farm.

Hypocrisy dilutes the message. Obama speaks with the voice of authority because he's lived the life he urges other to live. And that's the big difference between him and Cosby.
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. If that were the case then parents would have no authority
How many parents have told their kids not to do things that the parents themselves had done when they were younger? Everyone is a hypocrite to some degree. Is a reformed meth addict a hypocrite for telling people they shouldn't do meth? Is a reformed gang member a hypocrite for telling kids not to get involved with gangs? There's a very fine line between hypocrisy and learning from one's mistakes.
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Tangerine LaBamba Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #23
30. I hardly think
a speech by Barack Obama or Bill Cosby, or an opinion voiced by Tangerine LaBamba at democraticunderground.com has anything to do with parents raising children.

You're trying to compare two concepts that have nothing to do with each other.

Bill Cosby never, in his speeches excoriating black men who don't behave as he thinks they should, expressed any regret on his part for his hypocrisy. Obama had no need to make such an apology. Show me any evidence that Cosby is "reformed," in your parlance. Show me where he publicly denounced what he had done.

When you don't lead a self-indulgent life that caused pain to people, you don't have anything to apologize for. Obama has nothing to apologize for, and that's the difference between his speech and Cosby's self-indulgent rants.
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Rage for Order Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. I think the comparison is accurate
Even if Cosby isn't "reformed", the main thrust of his comments is that people need to be involved in the lives of their children, and they need to make education a top priority. I don't know his personal history; maybe he's an adulterer and a crappy husband. However, you don't have to be faithful to your spouse (or stay married to them) to play an active role in your child's development and education.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
9. this????
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navarth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
10. I wasn't around DU when this happened
but i wouldn't have trashed Bill Cosby.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:20 PM
Response to Original message
12. Cosby is an actor/entertainer - Obama is a former professor running for president
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sandnsea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Shame vs Hope n/t
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zanne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
29. You got it, sandnsea! nt
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Karenina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 06:17 AM
Response to Reply #14
37. Yep! We / YOU people.
The Cos is an arrogant, old phart. AND a hypocrite.
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proud patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:29 PM
Response to Original message
16. perhaps the timing is the difference
both Cosby and Obama are respected people .

Obama's was given on Father's Day after-all .
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. i agree with a lot of what cosby is saying. BUT i wasnt gonna fight with the du'ers on it
i dont think cosby was turning on his own race and i think his goal is to heal and help.... it does take personal responsibility and there are problems to address. he was just brave enough to address them. it is not black and white,.... just one side, it is a huge issue that needs focus in all directions and ownership from all directions.
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
19. Cosby alienates himself from the current generation with his additional remarks,
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 07:37 PM by Oregone
poking fun at clothing styles and culture. He really comes off as an ignorant, angry old person pointing their finger and running their mouth. This tends to cause people to tune out and say the old mantra: "a broken clock is right twice a day".

When I listen to Cosby, I just think, its a lot more complicated than he is boiling it all down to. Id rather listen to the guy he wrote that book with than him personally.

Obama seems to be talking from experience, and not alienating himself before presenting his case.

Are you more likely to listen to a guy that shakes your hand, or the one that calls you an asshole. Wrong or right, Cosby is ineffective at his role as a speaker on this topic.
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BigDaddy44 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. Maybe i'm a lot like the Cos then
Because I see the clothing styles (worn by white and black) and just shake my head. Some of the guys actually walk down the street with only one hand free, because the other one has to hold their pants up. You're telling me I can't ridicule that and call it for what it is? Stupid?
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:28 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. The old of every age had something to say on the incoming clothing styles...
The flappers, the hippies, the current whorish look, etc.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. So you think someone who walks into a job interview with their
pants around their thighs and half of their underwear showing is going to get the job?
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 06:41 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. And the sign said "Long Haired Freaky People Need Not Apply"
There is nothing new under the sun.
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. I love that song!!!
We're both showing our age. And I agree, a long time ago someone said that the first sign of age was worrying about the declining morality of our youngsters.
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ben_meyers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:41 PM
Response to Original message
20. There is no difference, they are both right.
And if anybody else had call them out as "boys" and "idiots" Sharpton and Jackson would be screaming their fool heads off.
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hendo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
21. I support both of them
Edited on Wed Jun-18-08 07:43 PM by hendo
They both made valid points, and Cosby is awesome. I saw him the last time he came through Denver, and he was still hilarious.
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Sunnyshine Donating Member (698 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
22. Cosby wasn't the nominee for POTUS?
Dr. Huckstable had developed a bit of a reputation because of the way in which he said things and where he said them. Blurting these criticism's out in the middle of a comedy routine wasn't such a good tactic. I think he changed that perception since then.

I'm glad both of these men are standing up to challenge these all too common behaviors in America's communities. No matter what color skin, it is time we stand up and show them why healthy and active role models are a vital investment in the future of ALL children.

Having jobs for them to work at would be a great start. Hopefully, Barack will help bring many new opportunities in our future.
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melody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 08:27 PM
Response to Original message
27. It was all in the delivery
Cosby was blunt and grumpy. Obama put a positive, more compassionate spin on it.
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johnaries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-18-08 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
31. Wait - Cos is Black?
I thought he was just very tanned!

Seriously, I have loved Cos since childhood. I loved him in "I Spy", but it was when my neighbor loaned me the album "Wonderfulness" that I fell in love with him. I memorized that album. I listened to it so many times I could recite it exactly word for word.

The science fiction writer Isaac Asimov was the first one to show me the folly of racism. Bill Cosby hammered the message home, just by being "himself".

Just by showing me "there is no difference - what is funny to me is also funny to you, because we are all humans. And humans are pretty funny!"

Cosby is still my all-time favorite stand-up. Because it's just so easy to "relate" to him. He talks about human nature at it's core - beyond any racial or cultural differences. At least, that's my opinion as a "cracker".

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erpowers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
33. The Obama Effect
In my opinion the difference in reaction is just the fact that it was Obama who said what he said. I contend Obama has been allowed to get away with things like this before. I contend there are a number of issues on which Obama can say the same thing as anyone else and the other person will be criticized and either someone will make an excuse for Obama or they will applaud him. I contend the same thing will happen with public financing of campaigns. If McCain or someone other than Obama would have said they were not going to take public financing people everywhere would be criticizing them, especially if the politician had earlier said they would take public financing. Another politican would be called a flip flopper, but since Obama has done it people will make excuses about why it was okay for him to change his mind. I do not hate Obama, but I do believe he is held to a double standard. Obama can say and do just about anything he wants and people will claim he was right to say and do those things.
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mudesi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-19-08 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
36. Obama is a gifted speaker
He is capable of phrasing things in a persuasive way rather than a condescending way.
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Scout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. why doesn't he speak in complete sentences? what's with the weird pauses?
he reminds me of a minister, and i hate being preached at.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 06:30 AM
Response to Original message
38. There were many DUers
who agreed with Mr. Cosby, myself among them.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
40. Obama is a politician, Cosby is an actor
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LanternWaste Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
41. Here's one of the Cosby threads from a while back
Here's one of the Cosby threads from a while back. It may be interesting to see if anyone's positions or opinions have changed one way or the other and why.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x2001128
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aikoaiko Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
43. I suspect Cognitive Dissonance is the difference.


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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 08:27 AM
Response to Original message
44. What is an ingrown immigrant?
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pt22 Donating Member (400 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
46. Cosby isn't running for prez...and he isn't god.
:shrug:
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Freddie Stubbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:33 AM
Response to Original message
48. Many Duers, like myself, defended Cosby's speech
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regularguy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-20-08 11:34 AM
Response to Original message
49. I think the difference is that
Cosby's tone was mocking, dismissive, and off the cuff. (Not saying there was no truth in there) Obama's speech is just more positive and more eloquent. He's not gonna make fun of people for what they supposedly spend on shoes or name their kid.
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