Live from Netroots Nation in Austin: Markos vs. Harold Ford.

[madfloridian]

I have read several write-ups of this debate, forum, session. This is one of the better ones. The two parts that grabbed my attention are the differences on the FISA bill, and the differences on the subject of to whom our nominee must appeal.

It is like a gulf separating the two sides.

From the NW Progressive Institute Advocate:

Markos vs Harold

The moderator was DFA's Arshad Hasan.

Arshad asked both candidates what should be done to build the party.

Ford focused on appealing to Republican voters, saying that Barack Obama would need to receive the support of people who voted for George W. Bush twice to win the presidency. Markos talked about fielding authentic candidates who represent real American, progressive values, because there are few in Washington, D.C. who truly have their ear to the ground and are listening to their constituents.

The two answers differ so...they show the gulf clearly. I remember when Howard Dean's favorite saying was "you have to energize your base." He never meant to ignore the other side...just get your own on board with you.

More:

The discussion turned to FISA. Ford took several minutes to explain his nuanced position on telecom immunity, arguing that the people at fault are those in the Justice Department who instructed AT&T, Verizon, and other communications companies to turn over information to the government. Markos, of course, noted that there was no popular support for the bill that Congress passed, and that government's job is to protect the people by holding corporations accountable.

In other words, telcoms' spying on their customers should go unpunished. (According to Ford)

Arshad asked about holding elected officials accountable.

"I think it's important to remember that they work for us. We don't work for them," Markos replied, drawing applause. Americans can't be intimidated by their senators or representatives, or power won't be wielded responsibly, Markos noted.

Amen. They work for us. They should never talk down to us or treat us with disrespect...not should they speak of us in the third person as though we are not here.

More from The Politico...same theme. Ford continues to speak of appealing to the Republicans and setting the agenda to one size fit all.

Markos says the blogosphere will be paying some visits to conservative Democrats in 2010.

The Politico on the Markos Ford discussion

FORD: Sen. Obama is probably going to attract a lot of Republicans — the people who voted for George Bush twice,” Ford continued. “As a matter of fact, if that does not happen, Barack won’t win.

“But he’s going to have to find people who are Republicans, who probably won’t … proclaim themselves as proud Democrats, but will proudly vote for Sen. Obama. So the real challenge is actually to develop an agenda that mirrors the passion, excitement and the desires of people across the country.”

Why I fear the one size fits all agenda is that we who oppose so much of what has happened the last few years....will be thrown under the bus to suit the other side.

We’re not looking for ideological purity,” he continued. “Whether they’re opportunity or they’re investing in our country — whatever those values are, those are American values. They’re not left, right, center — they’re American values. And we’ve abandoned them out of fear, and we’ve got to stop doing that.”

Moulitsas drew hearty applause when he warned: “In 2010, we’re going to have some Democrats we’re going to pay some visits to in some primaries. … Too many Democrats in D.C. have lost touch. ...

“They still think this is a conservative country. And therefore, we’re going to have to remind them. And this is very helpful for them — we’re doing it for their own good. They’re going to realize that they can actually be who they want to be, because the people are ready for a progressive America.”

The saddest thing to me recently was to see the votes of a number of people we had supported financially through DFA. Too many voted in ways they promised they would never do.

I guess for a long while yet we must remember that there are elites in charge with an agenda that is not for the people themselves.

[PATRICK]

1. Loss of populist political skills

They bend to power in DC not to the ears at home- until it is so too late to foll or bulldoze the sheep that they quit altogether. Sure the chameleon act is not abandoned, but the thinking of Ford AND the GOP has become that of never ever accommodating the real will of the people. Not ever, not in any way, not even tune in at all but project their weird judgments and values upon the inability of the people to effect change- IN the politicians.

So many of our pols lose because arrogance replaces cynicism so soon they forget that such attitudes- divorced form reality in so many ways other than the top club- only suit lives devoid of morality and intent on greed, power and vice. It is always more offensive to find good people imitating bad behavior than the actual crooks themselves. Two kinds of evil crazy, the most dangerous(even if less evil) being "that close" to the truth and to doing the right thing and dropping the ball.

Without the muddled concessions, sincere if he is actually presenting that spew to people who know better, the GOP crime machine would be in jail not a perpetuated fraud of legitimate political power.

[FKA MNChimpH8R]

2. Sounds like Markos kicked Ford's ass

and about time. The DLC lickspittles should be exiled from the party. They want and have no part of our party's proud and progressive legacy. Assholes.

And "The Family" (see link) and their associates should be tried for treason and punished appropriately (with life in front of a firing squad). They are nothing more than the successors to the fascists that Gen. Smedley Butler exposed back in the 1930s.

[Ichingcarpenter]

3. Ford vs Markos?

Ford is the Edsel of the Democratic Party



How did the Edsel come to be synonymous with failure? All of the above, consolidated into an irrational groupthink and pressurized by a joyously catty media. Interestingly, it was Ford President Robert McNamara who convinced the board to bail out of the Edsel project; a decade later, it was McNamara, then Secretary of Defense, who couldn't bring himself to quit the disaster of Vietnam, even though he knew a lemon when he saw one.

[madfloridian]

4. The divide was obvious about primaries.

I remember a conversation I had with the FL party chairman once when they were quietly passing the word to discourage primary opponents. I was told they knew the issues best, and too many "activists" were not knowledgeable enough.

The crowd in the convention hall was less generous. One questioner pressed Ford on why he has taken actions “smearing Democrats,” in part by appearing on Fox News. Ford’s response that he has “great respect and admiration” for his former Fox colleagues was met with hisses and boos. (Although he duly noted his contract is with MSNBC these days.)

Undeterred, Ford insisted, “I’m proud of my voting record” and took issue with Moulitsas’s and others’ assertions that the political mood expressed here is the mainstream of the country. “I promise you that if you would’ve come to Memphis with your positions I’d have beaten you, too,” Ford responded to the questioner.

Ford split with Moulitsas and the crowd on the issue of immunity for telephone companies in a recent overhaul of spy laws that liberals opposed but most centrist Democrats supported.

They also split over Democratic primary challenges. As a general rule, party officials don’t engage in primary fights, or back the incumbent member in a contested primary. Netroots activists often—with mixed results—try to use primary contests to oust Democratic incumbents they view unfavorably.

“Harold will not applaud this, but in 2010 we’re going to have some Democrats we mean business to in some primaries,” Moulitsas said to resounding cheers from the crowd. Ford offered that his party brethren have “a clear distinction on what that means,” noting that activists should not seek to oust candidates just because they don’t always agree with them. Liberal Democrats, he said, can’t win in many conservative Democratic districts.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/07/18/democratic-party-unity-proves-elusive-at-netroots-gathering/

[Individualist]

8. "I'm proud of my voting record"

The asshole voted for torture! Damn the DLC!

[spanone]

5. ford could go the lieberman route anyday...he strongly supported the iraq war

[SoCalDem]

6. Kos is going on Gregory's dog & pony show..trashing Obama

and Ford's a DLC Hillary supporter.. wow..what balance

[madfloridian]

7. Someone here just posted that Kos really stood up for Obama...

on that show today. That Gregory tried to get him to say something bad about Obama. I don't watch that show so I don't know.

[SoCalDem]

9. I missed it too.. good for Kos..

:)

[George II]

10. "Elites" in charge?

You say "I guess for a long while yet we must remember that there are elites in charge with an agenda that is not for the people themselves." and then use one of your own posts to substantiate that comment?

Let's see some independent OBJECTIVE examples, ok?

Another day, another ANTI-Democratic post. Except that this time it's TWICE today!

You seem to have nothing else to do by criticize DEMOCRATS with no substance to back it up.

[iconicgnom]

11. Interesting that Ford doesn't have to alter position a bit, to appeal to Bush-R voters..

Interesting that with both parties appealing to Bush-R voters, everyone else gets screwed.
Interesting that the D's, rather than define an alternative vision of the US and the world, is pumping the Bush-R vision of a totally vague and endless war on "terror", of immanent threats all over the place, of "winning" by throwing more military force into foreign wars. Interesting that both Petraeus and bin Laden are now saying the place to be is Afghanistan, the Afghan/Pakistan border. What a wonderful consensus - and how little time it took to build it.

[bertman]

12. Harold Ford is a serpent. DO NOT LOOK INTO HIS REPTILIAN EYES.

Seriously, that guy gives me the creeps. He has the same eyes my wife's boa has when it's lining up to snatch one of those mice she feeds it.


Somebody please tell me why Democrats would need to appeal to Republican voters in this upcoming election. Democrats are registering record numbers in every state in the freakin' union. Democratic voters are SICK OF REPUBLICAN RULE. INDEPENDENT VOTERS ARE SICK OF REPUBLICAN RULE.

Republicans who call themselves Republicans are dwindling. Independents are excited about A DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE.

The Democrats have an energized electorate and base. But the DLC wants to follow the same game plan that helped them to win the last two Presidential elections by landslides. Right??

Those DLC guys must be holed up in the same cave in Pakistan as Osama bin Laffin cause they sure ain't in touch with reality on the ground here.

[beltanefauve]

13. My favorite Ted Kennedy quote:

"Given a choice between a real Republican and a fake Republican, people will vote for the real Republican every time."