Challenge: cite an example of any post on DU that has ever DEMONSTRABLY harmed the Democratic Party

[DeadElephant_ORG]

People, this is a discussion forum. We don't affect anybody but ourselves. To think otherwise is narcissistic and delusional. If all you do about neoFascism, and environmental catastrophe is post your thoughts to this board you are not an "activist", you're an opinionated couch potato.

That said, the quality and candor of our conversations here is invaluable to me, and to many us at DU. Many of us ARE activists - in the real world - and this is a unique place in which to talk about our experiences and ambitions. Free and open conversation keeps us sane, and inspires us to do more.

Those who engage in personal attacks, or who trivialize issues that fellow Democrats feel are important, or who, in any number of ways say "shut the fuck up", do a dis-service to Democratic Underground, and to the progressive movement as a whole.

[CatWoman]

1. please go away

please?

[DeadElephant_ORG]

4. "...or who, in any number of ways say 'shut the fuck up'..." PERFECT CASE IN POINT

I have never, and will never, allowed a bully to shut me up. You are welcome to leave.

[BlooInBloo]

14. There can be only one icing for this melodrama cake....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ZkllM8znx4

[DeadElephant_ORG]

17. uh...... what the hell was THAT about? n/t

[BlooInBloo]

21. Dude - that's the GRANDADDY of 80s melodrama music!

[DeadElephant_ORG]

24. it definitely DEFINITELY was melodramatic. It was... an experience. n/t

[BlooInBloo]

29. And as such, it seemed perfect for this thread.

[salin]

31. oh wow.

too funny.

[TexasObserver]

2. Yes, it's conversation in a large cyber coffee house.

And in that house are many tables, called threads. You don't have to sit down and talk at any table you don't want to. When we converse with others, do we go find a table where people are talking about something that upsets us, and jump in to tell those people to stop talking about the topic that interests them?

In my view, the number one infraction at DU is the practice of many posters to go into a thread merely to trash the people who are there trying to have a conversation. Why the nags enjoying nagging so much is unknown, but I surmise it is simply the way they are. There will always be fascists among us. They're present in every political group. They want to control the speech of others, and in turn, the thoughts communicated.

[TheDebbieDee]

5. I call these people the "Conversation Police".......

"Don't say that! Don't post that! Don't think that!"

Although I have on occasion been baited into doing the same thing myself. But not so much since the primaries ended.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

10. the "conversation police". I LOVE it. What exactly are they afraid of, anyway?

Talking about John Edwards, just as one example, is not going to make the situation worse. And NOT talking about what he did is not going to make it any better.

All not-talking about an issue does is to isolate each of us from the others, and all of us from reality.

[TexasObserver]

15. Good one!! I consider that term highly accurate.

Some people are free thinkers, like us. Free thinkers assume that hearing and rejecting an argument is better than refusing to hear the same argument. Censors spend every day worrying about how to stop others from thinking about or saying things they find objectionable. To them, the battle is to STOP other points of view, not to hear them out and refute them.

It doesn't matter what the topic is, the ninnies will always come running in to try to put a stop to it. I'm not big on group think, and I reject out of hand all who come running into a thread shhhhhh-shing everyone who wants to talk about the thing the shhhhh-sher finds objectionable.

To use an old school term, they're busy bodies, always busy trying to rearrange the thoughts and words of others.

[TooBigaTent]

3. Most of those posting on this site are not progressive. And fewer are even "Democratic" is you take

as the criteria support for "traditional" Democratic values.

Like the country as a whole, even DU has gone to the right.

[Tyler Durden]

6. They left me behind LONG ago.

I'm an Atheistic Democratic Socialist. How left can you GET without being a full bore COMMIE?

[cliffordu]

9. The tee shirt. Ya gotta have the Che Guevera tee shirt.

[spin]

7. Blame Bush. the Younger...

After eight years of his Presidency a lot of Republicans have seen the light and are looking for alternatives to the Republican Party. Of course, the Republicans in Congress, who spent tax dollars like drunken sailors on leave, infuriated many party faithful.

If we had a viable three party system, the angry Republicans would move toward the third party, assuming it was in the middle. Left with no alternative they migrate to the Democratic Party. But as you point out, they are not traditional Democrats. Of course, some will discover DU and try to argue their views with the long term progressive members.

On the positive side, the influx of new voters may give the Democratic Party the Presidency and better control of both houses of Congress. On the negative side (depending on your view), the Democratic Party may be pushed by the new voters toward the center of the political spectrum. In the end run, the country should be better off.

One thing for sure, the discussions on DU will be more heated and more interesting.

[Fumesucker]

42. For many Democratic politicians a move to the "center" would be leftward,

Not rightward..

Just sayin'.

[spin]

48. You have a valid point! (n/t)

[Winterblues]

8. Maybe a better question might be how has the "Democratic Party" harmed us?

Basically by not holding the criminals accountable. which is the same as saying Law and Order is not our cause...

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. Is this about the John Edwards thing?

About how you're obsessing over like you're watching Jerry Springer or some shit?

[fascisthunter]

12. shhh... you are hurting Democratic Underground and the Progressive Movement

as a whole.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

13. no, it's bigger than "the Edwards thing". It's about attempts, like yours, to bully others

into silence.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

16. Dish it out but can't take it, eh?

Weren't you the one blathering on about how Edwards should be kicked out of the party?

[DeadElephant_ORG]

18. oh, now I see... I'm bullying John Edwards. I'm dishing it out. Got it. Are you on drugs? 'cause...

John isn't listening to us.

it's just you and me, and the others here on DU, and how we treat each other. But I'm very sorry if I hurt your feeling by posting a simple fact about someone you admire. FACT: he lied on national television 2 days ago. Very sorry.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

19. Why should John listen to anonymous drama queen hypocrites?

Hell, let John speak at the convention. He's earned my respect.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

20. the POINT here is that I'm not "dishing it out" to another person on DU - but YOU ARE.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

26. Are you on drugs?

:shrug:

[DeadElephant_ORG]

28. I wish that I was.

[porphyrian]

22. I retroactively made Dukakis lose his bid for the Presidency with a post about Dworkinite feminism.

I'll gladly retroactively make him lose that bid again any time you'd like.

[BeHereNow]

23. Cite an example? This very thread is a perfect example.

As you say, this is a discussion board.
The very fact that you think this is worth discussing
is a prime example of harming the party.
With all that is happening, this is what you deem
necessary to discuss?
Talk about "narcissistic and delusional."

Sorry but you asked.
I've been on DU for 6 years.
I have never seen so many tripe topic threads
in all my days here as this year.

Respectfully,
BHN

[DeadElephant_ORG]

27. "respectfully" indeed. That's just bullying with a high-brow air. But as to your logic...

... well, let's be charitable and just say that it's mystifying.

"The very fact that you think this is worth discussing is a prime example of harming the party."

Exactly HOW have my "tripe topic threads" harmed the party?

Will the party fall if someone here has a conversation that you don't care to participate in? Is there some reason you should try to stop others from participating in it? Delusional narcissism perhaps? Or maybe you think that every second ANYONE spends talking about something YOU don't think is important, is stealing from you somehow.

I'm sorry if you are unimpressed with my threads. Fortunately I have other reasons to exist than to impress you.

Cheers!

-Jeff Goldsmith

[BeHereNow]

35. So are you really asking to hear what I think again? Okay.

You have projected SO much on me for simply answering your question.

I find that very telling.

Don't ask questions you may not like the answer to.

Go look through some archives- take the time to compare
today's "discussions" and those from the past.

Frankly, I think that this type of "discussion" paints
DU as a rather silly, self absorbed group of people.

I prefer discussions on things that MATTER.
They used to be the norm on DU and the "used to"
is why so many of the classic DUers no longer visit.

So shoot me for telling you what I honestly think.

Again, Respectfully,

BHN

[DeadElephant_ORG]

41. you are more than welcome to tell me what you think at any time. Grant me that courtesy.

BeHereNow says:

"I prefer discussions on things that MATTER."

what! oh my! that must be GOD SPEAKING.

"I find that very telling."

what a pompous ass!

[BeHereNow]

44. Are smart ass one liners your usual style of "discussion?"

Again,
I think your responses say more about you than me.

Those who know me on DU would agree.
I am certain.

You have lost my respect, so I won't offer is again
as I sign off this time.

You are clearly not able to return such sentiment
while you tantrum at any one who doesn't agree with you.

I can assure you, I don't care, because it doesn't matter
a whit to me.

Carry on.
BHN

[DeadElephant_ORG]

47. you can see extensive evidence in this thread that one-liners are NOT my usual thing....

I made an exception in your case.

Don't pretend that you've taken away your respect as the result of anything I said, because you didn't come IN to this discussion offering any respect.

(cue the melodramatic music)

"I can assure you, I don't care, because it doesn't matter a whit to me."

not a what?

not a WHIT. Not a whit, I say.

[Alexander]

25. NEWSFLASH: You are not supposed to continue discussions from other threads here.

It's in the rules.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

30. Newsflash yourself: I didn't.

Falsely throwing rules at someone, when they don't apply, could certainly count as intimidation.

[Alexander]

34. Uh, yeah you did. I read your Edwards thread. Do you think DUers are stupid?

Apparently you do.

[DeadElephant_ORG]

37. this post is about DU: how we treat each other, and the value of our candid conversations

Obviously, it was inspired by what I experienced when trying to speak about Edwards' impact on our party.

But YOUR intention, just as obviously, is to shut me up. Well, I ain't shuttin' up, so...

[AlCzervik]

32. What no Dueling?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct6p0sP_KSk

[last_texas_dem]

33. Let's see...

You begin your post by saying that discussions on here "don't affect anybody but ourselves." In general, I tend to agree with this. However, you close your post by saying that particular actions by board participants "do a disservice to Democratic Underground, and to the progressive movement as a whole." So, which is it? Do actions on this board not have any effect outside of this place or can they potentially hurt the entire "progressive movement"?

[DeadElephant_ORG]

38. interesting question...

I'd say that, over the long run, the quality of the conversation among democrats (small 'd') ultimately will have a large impact. If we can speak freely with each other, we will build mutual trust and common purpose. But if we allow cliques to ascend who are bent on controlling the conversation, and on silencing those with whom they disagree, trust on common purpose will disappear, and the factions will harden.

But no comment on DU, and no string - not even a large collection of strings - on any conceivable topic could in any way affect viability of any present candidate or political figure. If that's not correct, I'm waiting for someone to cite example.

So, while it appears at first to be a paradox, both statements can be true. They are true.

[Dukkha]

36. Stop It! Can't you see this barnyard animal noise guessing game is tearing us apart!

And it was a baby ox!

[warren pease]

39. No, although I've tried hard enough. Not that the complicit swine deserve it or anything. n/t

[Canuckistanian]

40. I like pie.

[cliffordu]

43. You mean except this one??

[CrazyDude]

45. Demonstrably means, to me, a significant movement in the national polls

So no, that has not happened unfavorably against the Democratic Party.

[Liberal_in_LA]

46. I made fun of the stiff, unrythmic way Hillary claps and caused her to drop out of the race

... DUers got really upset about my post. <shrug>

[TexasObserver]

50. Point, point, clap, clap ...

Stephen Colbert nailed her on the rigidity and predictable repetitiveness of her (obviously taught and well practiced) gestures.

If you have never seen this Hillary impersonator do her thing, it's worth a quick look:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRbBJi0jfdU

[Liberal_in_LA]

51. Hilarious! OMG!

[TexasObserver]

52. it's HILLarious!

a friend sent me the link

[DeadElephant_ORG]

53. holy sheezus, that is GREAT ! n/t

[TexasObserver]

49. One time ... at band camp ....

something about a flute