NY Times proves McCain Cheated, Was Stuck In Traffic While Obama Questioned...

[NEM]

McCain Had Advantage Over Obama For Saddleback Forum

Saturday night, immediately after the Saddleback Forum, FOX News had a panel ready for analysis on the Strategy Room.. Everyone on the panel agreed that John McCain was strong and decisive. In fact, McCain was so quick with his answers that he finished at least 15 minutes ahead of schedule. There may be a reason for McCain's strong and decisive responses. The New York Times reports that John McCain was not in "a cone of silence" to prevent him from hearing the questions because he was,in fact, caught in traffic while Obama was questioned by Pastor Rick Warren

Warren assured the audience that McCain was unable to hear the questions because he was in a "cone of silence". The format of the forum depended on the idea that both candidate would be answering the same questions so voters could make a clear comparison. The fact that McCain was able to know the questions beforehand completely negates the premise of the forum idea.

It also raises profound questions about the honesty of John McCain. His campaign is trying to turn it around acting shocked that anyone could accuse John McCain of cheating.

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.

No, what's outrageous is the idea that the forum was not delayed until John McCain arrived. It's hard to believe that Pastor Rick Warren knew that McCain was not following protocol. If he did know, he has a lot of explaining to do.

http://www.newshounds.us/2008/08/18/mccain_had_advantage_over_obama_for_saddleback_forum.php#more

[Richard D]

1. prolly . . .

. . . stuck in heavy traffic in the church parking lot?

[Muttocracy]

2. I don't think NY times used the term "cheated". nt

[SoCalDem]

3. He was listening to his favorite hip hop station...honest!

John would not be listening to Obama..He's a straight shooter..:puke:

[Maine-ah]

61. nah, he had ABBA cranked....

:P

[MidwestTransplant]

4. The outrage because he was a POW is just simply hilarious.

[liberalmuse]

5. This statement really gets me...

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.

The fact that they're playing the POW card really disgusts me. I didn't know that being a POW for 5 years automatically made you infallible. McCain is a proven liar, so what's to say he didn't lie yet again?

AND,

The Obama campaign did not insinuate anything. People who observed the debate noted that McCain was a bit too comfortable and forthcoming with the answers to the questions, and in a couple of cases, before they were even asked! This is not what we've seen when he's had to respond spontaneously.

[NEM]

7. More from the NYT

Link to the NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/18/us/politics/18mccain.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=politics&adxnnlx=1219039247-KI2dNrkJ725b55cC82Vnwg


Here are the last few sentences in the Times Article.

Mr. Warren started by asking Mr. McCain, “Now, my first question: Was the cone of silence comfortable that you were in just now?”

Mr. McCain deadpanned, “I was trying to hear through the wall.”

Interviewed Sunday on CNN, Mr. Warren seemed surprised to learn that Mr. McCain was not in the building during the Obama interview.

Now, assuming that this is true, then McCain now has a lot of explaining to do as to why he blatantly lied, and IMO, this should prove to the entire country the type of scoundrel that McCain really is.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

9. Sean Hannity says it's okay to cheat on your wife if you were a POW. nt

[Skittles]

18. Only if you're a repuke. nt

[earthlover]

41. The former POW cheated on his wife when he got home....

He cheats big time!

[lolly]

52. Well, of course a FORMER POW would NEVER cheat

Except on his wife . . .

[sofa king]

70. And we know that POW really did cheat--on his wife.

Edit: Oh, I see half a dozen others have pointed it out already.

Well, dammit! I'm saying it too!

[dysfunctional press]

72. and hogan and his heroes cheated klink and schultz all the time...

i know it's 'off-topic', but i would have given just about anything to be at the pitch meeting for "hogan's heroes"...

"no no no- these are 'funny' nazi's..." (only 20 years after the war ended...and probably with jewish producers in the room)

[mcg]

79. besides dishonesty, McCain showed stupidity,

which is not surprising considering his history. A dishonest person with more intelligence would have waited until a question was asked before answering it, and would have used more of the alloted time (to use it to full advantage and mask the dishonesty). His handlers shouldn't trust him to pull off something like this.

[DesertFlower]

6. was there a tv in the car that he was in? nt

[NEM]

8. TV in Car???

My guess, and it is only a guess, would be "YES" because of the importance of the person (s)in the vehicle, and at least, a radio.

My guess is that his staff members have blackberrys or other type of devices that have internet and TV access.

[ColbertWatcher]

10. What is this "internet" you speak of?

You are obviously new to DU (Welcome, by the way) so perhaps this "internet" is something new that I have never heard of.

Is it anything like the telegraph? Radio?

Your "internet" frightens me and yet, I am drawn to this idea...

[NEM]

13. Ask Al.. .. .. ..

.......Gore. He'll fill you in.:D :D

[volstork]

74. Where have YOU Been?!

It was explained by a very reputable source that the internet is a series of tubes

[FrenchieCat]

11. XM radio or a cell phone is all that would be required.

[NEM]

12. The MSM Better be all over this tomorrow (Monday)

Based on this comment....

Interviewed Sunday on CNN, Mr. Warren seemed surprised to learn that Mr. McCain was not in the building during the Obama interview.

I believe that Mr. Warren owes the American people, the networks and most of all, Senator Obama, a complete apology, and should also be very critical of Senator McCain for lying to him when he asked him if being in the cone of silence was comfortable and McCain answered this way, “I was trying to hear through the wall.”

Mr. McCain then went on to answer the question, which he may have heard, and continued to lead Mr. Warren, and the nation, believe he was unaware of Obama's answers.

That alone should prove to America the type of person John McCain really is, that for the power of the presidency, he will say, and do, anything...........NEM

[Patchuli]

85. Or CNN on Sirius

The audio on the Saddleback Church link would not work so we watched the picture and listened to the audio on Sirius!

[LiberalFighter]

91. McCain could honestly state that he didn't watch or hear Obama's segment.

His pork belly staffers could let him know the questions.

[bleever]

14. Man, the lady doth protest waaaay too much:

“The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated is outrageous,” Ms. Wallace said.

[tbyg52]

37. >>"insinustion from the Obama campaign"???? Way to make stuff up out of thin air... nt

[spanone]

49. bwaaahahahahaha i guess it's impossible for a former 'prisoner of war' to cheat bwahahahaaaa

[mcg]

80. Being a former pow guarantees that one is honest?

And it's wrong to question the honesty of any pow?

Just how does being a former pow instill honesty in a person?
How does that work?

This reminds me of a cult leader who demanded that his
followers never question the "purity of the Master".

Notice that she did not say the McCain did not cheat,
she just implied that his honesty should not be questioned.

[bjobotts]

88. These guys lied us into a war and lie about torturing people. Cheating is nothing on their moral sca

[bjobotts]

89. Bomb bomb bomb Iran. Is that Obama,,,turn it up heh hee hee.

[Skittles]

15. may I ask a question?

what the fuck difference does it matter whether or not he heard the questions? How the fuck hard would it be to anticipate what questions would be asked by PASTOR FUCKING RICK?

[NEM]

19. That's not the point...

What is the point is that he went along with Warren, and the audience, that he was in a silent room when in fact, he was in a car on the way. That is what I, for one, have a bigger problem with.

[Skittles]

22. who the fuck would trust this guy?

why even agree to such an asinine format?

[fifthoffive]

59. Exactly

McCain lies repeatedly. No need to lie about the "cone of silence" unless you didn't want it known that you had "cheated."

[geckosfeet]

35. In that format it makes a lot of difference.

[Patchuli]

86. He had a distinct advantage on Obama

as Obama had to shoot from the hip with no prep. McCain got to hear what he would be asked and his handlers had time to tell him how to answer. I have never heard McCain able to answer so quickly on questions before this "civil forum."

[RNdaSilva]

16. In simple terms...HE CHEATED!

Probably even had a faux hearing aid...masking a radio receiver.

The quick responses and knowing one question in advance was just too obvious.

I'm still wondering...Meg Whitman eBay?

[Journeyman]

17. Traffic? On a Saturday evening? . . .

Traveling North or South to get to the Church (and there are quality hotels in both directions), there wouldn't ordinarily be heavy traffic at that time of the week. I hope someone's able to access the Highway Patrol's traffic alerts, or even the KNX news traffic maps, to see what the story was for that evening. I wouldn't be surprised to hear there was traffic at that time, but there are many alternate routes to Saddleback Church that any intelligent, locally-aware driver would be able to easily attain to get there on time.

And why wasn't Sen. McCain at the church on time? He knew when the event was going to start and that he would have to be ensconced in the "cone of silence" at the start, so why didn't he have sufficient respect for the process, for the Church, for the Pastor, for his opponent and for himself to be certain he was in place on time?

[NEM]

20. ou asky "why?"

And why wasn't Sen. McCain at the church on time? He knew when the event was going to start and that he would have to be ensconced in the "cone of silence" at the start, so why didn't he have sufficient respect for the process, for the Church, for the Pastor, for his opponent and for himself to be certain he was in place on time?

========================================================================================

Because McCain is a power hungry bastard that will do just about anything for the presidency.

That has been what he has wanted for a long long time, and I, seeing him up close, and how he works, from here in Arizona, know what the true John McCain is, or at least I think I do.

[calimary]

25. Welcome to DU! Evidently we also know what the true rick warren is, too.

If the suspicions are true.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=3814882&mesg_id=3814923

[mcg]

84. Sure, his car counts as traffic, it was heavy, and he was stuck in it.

No lie there. How dare you question His integrity, Saint McCain is a POW after all.

Why was He not at the church on time? You shouldn't ask such questions. He is above following the rules like us ordinary folks.

[Neshanic]

21. Baby Jesus runs Caltrans, and wanted McCain to be late to have the advantage.

[texasleo]

23. where was McCain driving from?

[johnfunk]

24. WHO BLACKBERRIED CHARLIE BLACK AND WETSTART McCAIN THE QUESTIONS?

That's the money question to ask of Wetstart's press sockpuppet.

[woo me with science]

26. Oh, please. No they didn't.

Nobody knows if he heard anything, and there is certainly no PROOF that he did. But even if he did, so what? These were not questions coming out of left field. Did you forget that ten hours ago everyone was complaining that he was just regurgitating his stump speech? Psst.....he was.

This was not a fucking QUIZ SHOW, people. Did you seriously expect a presidential candidate to sit in an isolation booth wearing a "cone of silence"? Because if you did, you're an idiot.

I swear, this is the STUPIDEST shiny object I think I have ever seen DU distracted by. It's too boring to talk about jobs or gas prices or healthcare or the environment, isn't it? You have to manufacture conspiracy EVERYWHERE, and drool and hyperventilate over CRAP, even when it makes you look like an idiot.

You all seriously need to get a grip, because you are playing right into GOP hands. THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THIS. God, I get so tired of the infantile posts here sometimes.

[Bluebear]

28. hot damn, you sure are more sophisticated than all us rubes here, you told us!

:eyes:

[woo me with science]

30. Sometimes the truth hurts. nt

[Bluebear]

31. Sometimes you should try to be more temperate. nt

[woo me with science]

32. Oh please.

You call me a rube, and I'm the one not being civil?

I tire of this mob hysteria that infects DU sometimes and makes people act like fools. Sometimes a whack on the head is needed.

[Bluebear]

33. Actually I called the rest of DU rubes - not you - as you try to show us the way

Anyhow, not worth getting in an argument over. :toast:

I just don't think the GOP is on the other side "wanting us to talk about this". It will all pass over tomorrow, until the next sideshow :)

[woo me with science]

34. Thanks for the beer.

I hope it does pass over, because I will seriously pull all my hair out if this is the quality of the debate from here on out....

And you just know they would like it to be.

[MiniMe]

40. Considering the fact tht mcCain was answering the questions before they were asked

There was something a little strange going on. Don't know if he heard the questions or not, but it does seem like he had the questions in advance

[woo me with science]

42. No, he did not

answer a single question "before it was asked." That is the hyperventilating nonsense floating around DU, but it is not what anyone actually saw on TV. At one point he wanted to go on a tangent about the Supreme Court in response to a question that WAS asked, and he reasonably asked if he should do it then, or if there would be a question about the Supreme Court later.

The hysterical imagination of DU to the contrary, this was not an appearance on "Who Wants to Be a Millionaire," where the contestants are popped a highly guarded, ultra-secret question about some obscure chemical formula, and....GASP!....MCCAIN CHEATED BY SEEING THE QUESTION IN ADVANCE!!!!!!!!!

No, the reality is that he is pre-loaded with 100 basic bullet point responses, all carefully designed to feed his base, and he is waiting to spew them whenever a question touches on or triggers that answer. Why? BECAUSE HE ANSWERS THE SAME QUESTIONS TWENTY TIMES A DAY.

People act as though they are eight years old and have never seen a presidential campaign before. Or maybe the current voting population was just raised on corporate TV and is incapable of focusing on anything less titillating than CONSPIRACY AND THE CONE OF SILENCE! Whatever the reason, it's really getting pathetic.

[MiniMe]

54. Enjoy voting for the loser this election season

being a POW doesn't make him a God. Try reading the transcript where Warren says I see you got the questions. And where McCain starts answering a question on Judicial Nominees that hadn't even been asked. Personally, I don't care if he saw them or not, but Warren has to be honest about things instead of letting people think that he was in a "cone of silence" and all these answers were off the cuff when they weren't.

And, I'm pretty tired of McCain playing the POW card.

[MiniMe]

55. What a surprise, you hid your profile

[woo me with science]

57. Are you calling me out?

Because I may have been here longer than you have. Stop being a childish fool.

[MiniMe]

58. Not calling you out

Just trying to figure out why you are so pro-McSame. I was just listening to Thom Hartman going over how McSame sold out and made propaganda films for the north vietnamese for better treatment. He would sell his soul to be President.

[DS1]

44. You don't think they have a television on the bus?

[woo me with science]

45. OH MY GODS!!!!!!

YOU'RE RIGHT!!!!!!

HE SAW THE ULTRA SECRET QUESTION/1!!!!!!!!! WHO WOULD EVER PREDICT A QUESTION ABOUT THE SUPREME COURT???????!!!!!11111 HE MUST HAVE SEEN IT!!!!!11211111

IF HE DIDNT HEAR THAT SUPER SECRET QUESTION, OBAMA WOULD HAVE WON!!!!!!!!!!

CALL CONGRESS RIGHT FUCKING NOW!@!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[DS1]

46. You're being silly.

Bye.

[woo me with science]

47. No, you are being silly.

Read my other posts. I am tired of repeating myself to people who fancy themselves to be Maxwell Smart.

[DS1]

50. The problem with your argument is this

You are completely incapable of accepting the possibility of McCain watching this in his bus on the way there, which is very easy to do with modern technology, yet you're being conspiratorial enough to think this entire thing was manufactured by the GOP in the first place.

It doesn't jive, and now you're just getting hyper.

[woo me with science]

51. No, I don't think it was manufactured,

but I think they will definitely enjoy it and use it.

Frankly, I suspect he was too busy to listen, and I don't see the huge conspiracy if he DID listen. This hysteria that he somehow won by hearing the super secret question is just ridiculous, and it makes DU look foolish and conspiratorial.

But you are right. I am overreacting at the overreaction. There will be another shiny object along soon, at any rate.

Have a beer.

[Ghost in the Machine]

53. You're too kind... "silly" isn't the word I would have used...

:hi:

[Binka]

62. Me Either!

Somewhere a farm is missing it's Idi...err ANT!

[donco6]

71. Me either.

I'm thinking more like

[Marr]

83. The entire point of the forum's structure was that each candidate would

be asked identical questions without foreknowledge of precisely what they would be be. Supposedly, the audience would be able to compare each candidate's answers and draw contrasts. That was the point. Surely you understand that.

[EOTE]

66. If this is such small potatoes, why would he feel the need to lie about it?

Wouldn't explaining what happened be the prudent thing to do? Would McCain risk being caught in a lie like this if he had nothing to gain by doing so? You're not making much sense at all.

[Ian David]

27. “The insinuation from the Obama campaign that John McCain, a former prisoner of war, cheated.."

They actually invoked the old "POWs never cheat" defense!

Why, I NEVER!

[eShirl]

36. and the "Keating 5" thing must never have happened either!

[Ignis]

68. A Gentleman doesn't speak of such things!

:rofl:

[EOTE]

67. Their logic is beginning to fall apart.

Last week, when Colmes brought up the fact that McCain had cheated too (they were discussing the Edwards affair), Hannity's excuse was that he could do it BECAUSE he was a POW. So first they say that McCain's allowed to cheat because he's a POW, then they say that McCain would NEVER cheat because he's a POW. The twisted logic they have to take is mind boggling.

[Evoman]

29. Um..yeah...that's why this is called "propaganda".

Why would anybody ever think it would be fair?

Not only that, but he probably got the questions way before that anyways. That "time in traffic" was just practice time.

[City Lights]

38. He's using "former POW" like Rudy used "Septembertheeleventh."

:puke:

[Lifetimedem]

39. At one point

he said something like "I cheated on this one"

Did anyone else hear that?

I wondered if the campaigns has some advance notice on topics..

[bullwinkle428]

43. "McCain" is to "Former Prisoner of War" as "Giuliani" is to "9/11"

It's honestly reaching that level of obnoxiousness these days!

[spanone]

48. i take it for granted that the republicans will do anything to steal the election

[Marrah_G]

56. Actually, Mccain, former POW has a history of cheating........Just ask his first wife.

I personally don't care. But I am not above throwing it in their faces when they come out and say that former POWs have some sort of innate honesty and integrity. They are human and a percentage of them are assholes.

[JerseygirlCT]

60. Oh my goodness! She really said it!

As I was reading, I was thinking: their answer will be shock, shock, I tell you, that anyone could accuse John McCain, prisoner of war, with cheating...

Then that's exactly what his spokesperson said! Has he legally changed his name yet?

[lonestarnot]

63. Trust a fucking monkey and it may shit on your fucking head!

[Disturbed]

64. "John McCain, a former prisoner of war,"

McLame & his Lobbiest Crooks use this as a sledge hammer. McLame lies about his experiences as a POW to garner votes.



“Hypocrisy, my friends, is the most obvious of political sins — and the people will punish it,” John McCain

[lonestarnot]

65. Isn't that ironic!

[lonestarnot]

69. And claims he's a baptist too. Snort 15 years of hypocrisy.

[Breeze54]

73. CNN broke the story.... Video here of Rev Warren admitting he LIED and it's "OK!" !

Watch this video of the Rev admitting he LIED!!!
http://www.cnn.com/video/savp/evp/?loc=dom&vid=/video/politics/2008/08/17/rick.warren.forum.interview.cnn

[Dystopian]

75. Yes, he just said it again on Larry King....

He couldn't give one question to McCain because "he wasn't there"......
:wtf:

Anyway....I'm just preaching to the choir and not adding anything except my disgust...


peace~

[Dystopian]

76. KandR eom.

peace~

[Politicalboi]

77. That POW reference

Is sickening. Were talking about someone who cheated on his wife after being a POW.

[nikto]

78. ALL REPUBLICANS AND CONSERVATIVES KNOW HOW TO DO IS CHEAT

[NanceGreggs]

81. Whether McCain heard Obama's portion ...

... of the broadcast on his way there is neither here nor there.

Did McCain have the questions ahead of time? Undoubtedly.

Did McCain hear those questions for the first time on his way to the broadcast, conjure up answers to those questions within an hour of air-time, and also commit those pat, well-rehearsed answers to memory? You've got to be kidding me.

This is the guy who can't speak for more than four minutes at a time without referring to prepared notes.

McCain had the questions in advance - probably weeks in advance. THAT'S the real story that should be looked into.

[eagertolearn]

87. That is so right. Hearing them in his limo would only confuse

him more (though I believe he probably was listening in...who wouldn't). I felt the same that his answers were very well rehearsed. McCain has never sounded like that. That minister, for all he has been praised, should be knocked down a few notches in Gods book for allowing this to happen. Fundalmentalist Christians are blinded by their faith. The minister also didn't ask McCain to clarify his answers where he did ask more of that of Obama. The whole thing was a joke though Obama gave very honest and thoughtful answers and this may of help him in the long run.

[Swamp Rat]

82. HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[KharmaTrain]

92. That Is Classic!!!

The election is a lot more fun having your fine work to keep us sane, Swampy...

You don't even need to touch up Gramps...his skin crawls on its own. Watching him in High-Definition is too much for a mere mortal to stand.

BTW...do you have Gramps and Booooshie together? A lizzard lock embrace. :rofl:

Cheers...

:toast:

[Swamp Rat]

93. Here's a few pix for ya:

:D :hi:

[KharmaTrain]

94. Damn I Miss Marty Feldman

Here's my favorite "pic" of the week...



I keep wonderin' if Gramps as a "frequent flyer" in Iseman's First Class section. :rofl:

:toast:

[GreenTea]

90. Republicans set this up from day one.....They are always 3 steps ahead of the trustful Dems

Let's hope the Dems will finally recognize what liars and how manipulative & conniving the republicans are. Doubtful!

It's going to get much, much worse....not to mention the republicans voting machines, voter ID's and the purging of Dem voters, not enough voting machines & breakdowns in Dem precincts, tossed away not counting of Dem votes to cap it off for the republicans in November.