So what happens if we don't give the 700 billion to these rich scum and we don't have a depression?

[NNN0LHI]

Someone is going to look very stupid aren't they?

Don

[snot]

1. best time i'd have had in a long time. nt

[1awake]

2. well..

So what happens if we don't give the 700 billion to these rich scum and we don't have a depression?

That's what I call reality. Oh, I think something is going to get passed, but I also think if we don't, we still wouldn't have a depression. I'm not saying it won't get bad though.

[lamp_shade]

3. and there will be dancing in the streets.

[Robbien]

4. What happens when we give the $700B and we DO continue to have the depression?

Sooner or later they will get the keys to our treasury. But since giving them all our money is no answer to anything except their greed, the recession we are in now will continue and we will be in a long depression.

Will anyone remember that this $700B was supposed to stop it?

[NNN0LHI]

6. continue to have the depression? Are we even in a recession yet?

First things first here.

Don

[Robbien]

8. If you listen to Wall Street, no. You listen to people out here, then

you get a much different answer. Recession is what this is.

Go into any grocery store and you will see fear and shock in the eyes of every grocery shopper in the place.

Tent cities and a multitude of people living in their cars are almost standard operating procedures of every major city in the US now.

[NNN0LHI]

9. And when did all that begin? Yesterday?

I noticed what you are describing years ago but no one was concerned with helping those people back then. Why is that?

Don

[Robbien]

13. No one was concerned with helping those people yesterday.

Or today. Or any day.

Wall Streeters were the ones whining yesterday. They get press.

[eShirl]

15. because they haven't been lobbying $$$ Congress for years, i.e. they are invisible

[newfie11]

5. I agree on the other hand what happens if we pass it and still have a depression.

[Warpy]

7. Although I wish that would be the case, I'm afraid it aint so

This is to shore up banks so that they'll continue to function, which means you'll continue to be able to cash your paycheck and pay the light bill.

"Let the greedy fucks fail" might be a laudable sentiment, but I'm afraid a total economic collapse wouldn't be fun for any of us. Bottom is a lot farther down than you think it is. Hunger isn't like a diet and homelessness isn't like camping out.

However, there is an upside: I don't see anybody wanting to bail out the hedge funds that started this mess.

[Believing Is Art]

12. Bingo

Better question: would we need the $700bil bailout if Paulson hadn't said we did?

I hate the idea of taxpayer money going to the haves - the people that caused this - and not to the lower and middle classes. But you're right. Our money is meaningless if the system fails.

[bowens43]

14. but we don't know the system is going to fail.

for every economist they trot out who says it will, they can trot out one who says it won't.

[Believing Is Art]

16. No one knows

But when money market funds start breaking the buck and there's talk of not issuing commercial paper, that's worrisome. I don't like this whole crisis mode and I don't want to see the full $700bil turned over to Wall St., but we may not be able to wait until January to do something. And unfortunately that means we're not going to like whatever gets passed now.

[galileoreloaded]

17. Couple charts tell you all you want to know...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=4129331&mesg_id=4129331

[Clovis Sangrail]

10. it's all a matter of odds

I can get blind drunk and drive my car 90 mph down a residential street.

most likely I'll kill somebody... if I don't it doesn't mean it was wise for me to ignore the danger.
It just means I got lucky.

[KharmaTrain]

11. They Fear "The Change They Need"

Don, the problem here is that this mess directly affects the rich but its overall mess is affecting the rest of us...be it in watching our investments and home values go to hell or losing a job due to lack of credit to seeing this country's productivity come to a halt as stagflation begins to take hold. While many won't feel the 777 point loss immediately, it will ripple and make what money we do have worth less.

The disconnect here is what a "depression" is. IMHO, we don't have a collective "depression", but its spread out and mostly under the radar. The world didn't end yesterday...and I have heard many good sources say that the market will still shed another 1,000 or more points...the bail-out only softens this blow, it won't prevent it. Until all this junk and debt is worked out of the system, the credit crunch will remain...the bail-out didn't fix this problem, it only eased it. Until the defecit is addressed (like not wasting $10 billion a month in Iraq) and the dollar strengthened will this economy really begin to turn around.

There's a definite change about to happen in the financial world. The old order is being rocked by its own avarice and ego...it got a kick in the teeth from the American people yesterday, but that's only part of it. This economic collapse/contraction will bring down a lot of companies and force others to divest. You gotta believe yesterday's vote sent a chill down the spines of the automakers, airlines and other industries that hope they can go running to Washington for a bail-out. I don't see that happening.

The ultimate verdict will come from the stockholders and the prosecutors. Many who sit in the nice Ivory Towers and were responsible for this mess will be held accountable.

Cheers...

[depakid]

18. What happens when you put $100 on black and spin the roulette wheel?

[Historic NY]

19. The FED pumped 630 billion in yesterday...........so much for the 700 billion

<snip>
The Fed increased its existing currency swaps with foreign central banks by $330 billion to $620 billion to make more dollars available worldwide. The Term Auction Facility, the Fed's emergency loan program, will expand by $300 billion to $450 billion. The European Central Bank, the Bank of England and the Bank of Japan are among the participating authorities.

The Fed's expansion of liquidity, the biggest since credit markets seized up last year, came hours before the U.S. House of Representatives rejected a $700 billion bailout for the financial industry. The crisis is reverberating through the global economy, causing stocks to plunge and forcing European governments to rescue four banks over the past two days alone.

``Today's blast of term liquidity will settle the funding markets down, and allow trust to slowly be restored between borrowers and lenders,'' said Chris Rupkey, chief financial economist at Bank of Tokyo-Mitsubishi UFJ Ltd. in New York. On the other hand, ``the Fed's balance sheet is about to explode.''
<snip>

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&refer=home&sid=aP5hzUWla7Jg

In my book 700 - 620 = 80......this bailout only dumps the banks bad lending practices and foreclosures onto the taxpayers. What does it change nothing, the banks will continue to arm twist customers with high fee's, charges, credit schemes .......I say let the market determine just which banks survive and it seems some are just being grabbed up for pennies.