I have lived without credit cards for years

[proud2BlibKansan]

I make a good living. I have a masters degree and have advanced in my profession. My house is paid for and I have a decent but not fancy car. I am approaching retirement.

And I lost a lot of money in the stock market yesterday. But I am not angry.

I want my government to help PEOPLE, not corporations. My portfolio will recover. But 18,000 people will die in the US this year because they don't have health insurance. The number of homeless vets on our streets will continue to rise while our government fails to address their needs.

The middle class will continue to suffer and shrink. More and more of our kids won't be able to afford college.

So please don't ask me, an educated person who lives without credit cards, to just blindly approve of handing money over to corporations without holding them accountable. And don't ask me to go along with any bailout that ignores the homeless, the uninsured, and any American PEOPLE who need our help.

[stray cat]

1. But you have lived with credit- if you have ever been part of society it runs on credit

Manurfacturerers borrow money to buy raw materials to produce products, farmers borrow money to plant crops to sell to market, Retailers use credit to purchase things to sell to consumers (particularly for the seasonal holidays - ever buy a kid a christmas present? We have been interconnected as an economy with letters of credit for over a hundred years.

My mistake you are right you have lived without a credit card - you have lived with credit.

[kick-ass-bob]

3. This is what most are missing.

People think they are islands, and certain things will not affect them. If you take the credit problem to a bad (but logical) conclusion, everyone is affected somehow.

The question is how do we help those who are in the middle of it. Do we help those who made bad loans, took the bad loans, or just those who played it more safely and stayed with the 'normal' types?

This is where I become ambivalent. I recognize the need to fix this, but the how is disconcerting. Part of me says 'let those who made these stupid loans suffer and die - but what does that mean for the rest of us?

[closeupready]

4. No, what most are missing is HOW IS THIS GOING TO BE PAID FOR, because

for many of us, we believe that those who have benefitted from Wall Street deregulation and those who have money should be the ones who bail out these banks, not the middle class which has been struggling and in many cases, is not covered by health insurance.

Because all you do by borrowing $700B is simply pick our pockets, fuel inflation, further devaluing the dollars we have the remain.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Yes I do have a mortgage and a car loan

My point is (and I will acknowledge I wasn't very articulate) that even though I do live with as little credit as possible, I did lose money in the market. But I would rather see our country reach out to the homeless than to Wall Street.

[scheming daemons]

2. yes... but your EMPLOYER most assuredly has NOT lived without credit

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. I work for a school district

funded by tax dollars.

So yes, my employer survives WITHOUT credit.

[pnwmom]

33. Not necessarily. Your state and/or school district may routinely function

with credit lines, paying the bills on a different schedule than tax monies are coming in. And what about municipal and school bonds?

[proud2BlibKansan]

68. I honestly don't think our district does that

We have trouble finding vendors to do business with because the district for years didn't pay its bills on time. So now they are operating on cash on hand only. At least that's what they tell us.

[pnwmom]

82. And does your district get any money from the state?

Here's the first state to get hit:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=7256498&mesg_id=7256498

(From Boston.com)

In an example of how fragile credit markets have become, the state of Massachusetts yesterday tried to borrow $400 million to make its routine quarterly local aid payments to cities and towns. State treasury officials said the credit markets abruptly froze midday, leaving them $170 million short. The state will have to use its own funds to complete the local aid payments, draining the state's balance to extremely low levels.

"I don't think any treasurer alive could say they've ever seen anything like this," said Timothy P. Cahill, the state's treasurer. "There have always been cash shortages, but you could always go to the market and get more. This is the first time we haven't been able to do that."

Cahill said he believes the credit market will in effect remain shuttered today as the nation's largest lenders hold on to their cash amid uncertainty over plans for a federal bailout. In short, the House's rejection of a $700 billion Wall Street bailout plan takes Massachusetts and the rest of the US economy into territory that few policy makers and analysts wanted to explore.

[jberryhill]

35. I chuckled at that one too

My situation is similar to yours, except I run a small business, employ two others, and also have no debt. I do have one credit card for convenience in car rentals (which can be done with a debit card, but either with a large hold or credit check). We keep enough in the bank to deal with payroll pretty far in advance. My assumption has always been that the bank is making responsible loans to help other businesses grow.

I'm going to take a wild guess here, but did your parents live through the Depression also?

[proud2BlibKansan]

76. Yes my parents were depression babies

And they had every credit card available. They taught me to go without them and not have the debt.

[nadinbrzezinski]

81. No they don't... many improvements on schools, for example

are done with government bonds... what do you think bonds are?

A credit instrument

[pnwmom]

5. How do you rent a car when you need to travel? n/t

[CoffeeCat]

6. You don't need a credit card to rent a car...

We don't have any credit cards. We freed ourself from the chains of credit cards six years ago.

Now, instead of paying the credit-card companies, we keep our money, give more to charity and save.

We have a debit card. You can rent a car, buy plane tickets and make hotel reservations with a debit
card.

There is no reason to have a credit card, unless you enjoy being enslaved.

"You need a credit card to rent a car!" is a lie perpetuated by the credit-card companies to increase
their profits.

There is no reason to have a credit card. Not one.

[gatorboy]

8. Actually, we tried renting a car this summer with a debit card. No dice.

[CoffeeCat]

10. Why?

We paid for Disney tickets, booked airline tickets, hotel reservation and rental car with our debit card.

We didn't do anything out of the ordinary.

[AllieB]

14. The only car rental company that accepts debit is Alamo

and only with a round-trip ticket at an airport. The other car rental companies do a credit check. Typically you need a credit card to rent a car, but you can pay with a debit when you return the rental. I know this because I travel all the time, and try to use my debit card everywhere, and save my one credit card for emergencies.

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. We rented from Enterprise last year with only a debit card

[AllieB]

22. Enterprise does a credit check on you.

I try to avoid them pinging my credit. Other rental companies put a $300-500 hold on your bank account. BTW Enterprise owns Alamo and National.

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Wouldn't they need your SS # to do that?

We didn't give them that.

[CoffeeCat]

30. Other rental car companies accept debit cards...

We reserved and rented our rental car, in Florida--from Hertz.

We did not need a credit card to rent this car. I first learned about using a debit
card to make hotel reservations, car rentals, etc--from a financial seminar. I didn't
know this before attending the seminar. We were "taught" that debit cards enable you to
do anything a credit card does, but the credit card companies bamboozle you into believing
that this isn't true.

We have used our debit card to travel, book airline tickets, rental cars and hotel reservations
for the past 5 years.

[AllieB]

41. Then because I generally rent at airports and in metro areas, they must be stricter.

http://www.bankrate.com/cnn/news/cc/20061122_debit_card_car_rental_a2.asp

[Subdivisions]

63. I've rented a few times with Enterprise, including a pick-up truck

with only my debit card.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. I use my debit card all the time like others use credit cards

I have booked planes and hotels, bought things and yes, even rented cars many many times. Not a problem.

[mikelgb]

21. does your debit card have a visa or mastercard logo?

[proud2BlibKansan]

67. yes

[AirmensMom]

27. Do you have fraud protection?

I never give anyone my debit card number of pay for anything online with it. I've heard horror stories about people having their accounts emptied and taking a long time to get their money back. At least if someone gets my credit card number, I don't have to wait to get my money back.

So I'm just curious about this.

I do use credit cards because I do a fair amount of my shopping online. However, I never charge more than I can pay off every month. It's simply a convenience.

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. Yes I have fraud protection

[pnwmom]

31. Are you sure it isn't one of those combined debit/credit cards? n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. Yes I am sure

It comes straight out of my checking account.

[shanti]

60. as long as it has the visa symbol

you can use it like a credit card.

[Hepburn]

61. My two debit cards work as credit cards, too.

Try and see if you can get something like that. I have never had a problem using them for anything like this.

[Kind of Blue]

84. Maybe it depends on the company. I used a debit card

about 7years ago to rent a really great van from Enterprise for a week. They did put a $300 hold on the card, but that was cool.

[Kind of Blue]

85. Great post. I've lived without 'em too. I faced the reality that I suck

when it comes to credit.

[HughMoran]

9. No reason at all - I only use one at work - but they pay the bill!!

It is useful to hold reservsations, but I never keep the charges on it.

Hey, you never did fix the mistake in the post yesterday about Gallup's poll numbers!

[CoffeeCat]

11. I was talking about credit cards...

...for personal use, when the bill comes to your house.

[HughMoran]

17. That was the "no reason at all" part. I see no reason to use them at all

I thought it was clear that the "no reason" was a response - oh, well.

[HughMoran]

23. I do not use one.

I do charge 1 thing a year to keep the "free for life" status, but otherwise it sits as a means to reserve items of large value (collateral).

[pnwmom]

28. My brother wasn't able to rent a car without a credit card. I was there,

so I know this is true. He had a debit card, but that wouldn't substitute.

And they wouldn't take mine, because I wasn't going to be the driver. So we had to take a plane, a train, a bus, and a cab to get to our father's funeral.

[marew]

40. There is an excellent reason to have a credit card actually!

I have a credit card and put everything on it. I ALWAYS pay it off completely at the end of the month. I get a percentage back for using it. Just a couple weeks ago, I deposited a $109 check from Citibank and have not paid them a cent in interest. Hey, I'll take the money whenever I can get it!

[CoffeeCat]

55. I agree that people like you...

...should be given a medal for responsibility. You amaze me. You're beating the credit card companies
at their own game, and I applaud you.

However astute you are---there are 1,000 people who sign up for that credit card and they think they'll
behave just like you do. And they don't.

The overwhelming majority of credit card users--do not pay off the balance monthly. They pay the
minimums which leave them paying off restaurant meals and clothes for the next 20 years.

Those incentives (such as air miles, percentage back) are designed to entice people into getting the cards
by allowing them to rationalize their behavior, "I'll get this card, but I'll pay off the balance and I'll
get money back...I'll be saving money!). This rarely pans out. If consumers did behave this way, the
credit card companies would go under.

These gimmicks entice people into enslavement. You escaped, but most don't!

[Just Visiting]

52. If you are savvy enough, you can make the credit cards work in your favor

99% of all folks can not, however. In the industry, the term used to describe those who pay their balance off in full every month is "deadbeats."

I am one of them. We run most expenses through a credit card (only one, mind you) and use the points to pay for hotels, airlines, etc. on our vacation.

My card has no annual fee (I would never agree to such a thing), and the costs we incur are nothing more then the time it takes to read the bill and allocate the appropriate (already in hand) money.

The key is having the self-control to always pay in full, and to never purchase something without having the funds to pay for it - in advance.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. I use my debit card

[Lorien]

36. Ever heard of "American Express"?

It's not a credit card, but you can use it for everything that a credit card it used for. Debit cards are another option. I haven't had a credit card for 15 years and I've traveled a lot during that time.

[HughMoran]

7. I don't use credit cards either, but corporations need line-of-credit to cut paychecks.

There was a great post yesterday describing how this all works and why it really would bring the economy to a halt if companies (the smaller they are, the more likely this will kill them) can't use a line of credit to cover payroll.

Edit - here is the post - a must read: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4125505

[supernova]

26. Yes, commercial paper

they use that to meet their day to day operating expenses and then pay on the commercial paper when revenues come in.

[HughMoran]

34. Yes. A simplistic view regarding "my credit card" doesn't really acknowledge the real issue

According to that post there was a "freeze" in commercial paper for 12 hours recently - if that hadn't freed up the shit would have hit the fan big time.

[jberryhill]

39. Stupid question

As a hostage on this train, I have to ask why there can't be a government loan guarantee program for those businesses instead of shoveling money into someone else's furnace.

Can't we route around the damage here?

[HughMoran]

45. Unfortunately, I'm not an expert on this. It may be illegal for the government to participate in

private lending - I dunno.

Read this post for more details on how the system works: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=4125505

[jberryhill]

65. "Stroke of a pen - law of the land" /nt

[AllieB]

19. The State of MA may not be able to pay out benefits to towns and cities because it relies on credit.

The 400M that it pays out to local towns is in jeopardy. So it just doesn't affect those with credit cards, mortgages, etc. It affects the money your town gets to clean roads in the winter, repair infrastructure, and take care of those in need. The response to this will be for the state or cities and towns to raise taxes. So there are ramifications not associated with consumer credit that will affect everyone.

BTW I was not for this bailout, but we do need something, preferably with consumer protection built in.

[AllieB]

20. Dupe.

[EFerrari]

24. The thing is, Bush and his cabal tried to use a real problem to hold us up

AGAIN. And Dodd, Schumer and Franks should die of shame for helping him do that. Obama has shown zero leadership and the best Pelosi did was to let it fail, which doesn't solve the problem.

There is a credit crisis and it is hurting small business -- who was already hurting. But the fix for that isn't to hand over brazillions of dollars in a blank check to these crooks. We need restructuring and regulation NOW, not AFTER they get the money. And even without that, Paulson can TODAY call a moratorium on foreclosures.

The Democrats are so used to carrying water for BushCo, they need an intervention. The whole leadership.

[supernova]

25. I use a debit card also

I own my home outright. I own my car outright.

I use the debit card to make hotel reservations, and could get an airline ticket and rental car, no problem.

Honestly, I've just never run into that problem.

But admittedly, I haven't rented a car recently. I don't have a need for it.

[adigal]

29. I have no credit cards either, but I was thinking of home equity

We are selling a house, and I need more room in the remaining one, so I wanted to renovate it. No credit out there right now. Cars? Need credit. Furniture bought on credit by lots of people. It is not just cards,

[L. Coyote]

32. I get paid back 1% of all purchases on my card.

I make money every year by using a credit card to purchase, but, I pay it off in full every month automatically.

Credit card debt and the high rates of interest represent a huge drain on the economy right now.

[RebelOne]

37. I have not had a credit card for almost 2 years.

Credit cards got me in deep doo-doo. I had to declare a Chapter 13 bankruptcy, so now the court will not allow me to have any credit at all for the next 4 years until my bankruptcy is paid off. But that is a good thing. I am doing OK now because I do not have any more bills, just the usual utility, cable and Internet. I own a mobile home and only pay lot rent. My car is paid off. I am working full-time and also collecting social security. I'd like to retire, but can't until I pay off the bankruptcy because half of my salary goes to the court.

[TexasObserver]

38. You're right, but many think they have a right to live on debt instead of income.

This is all about irresponsible lending, and irresponsible borrowers.

I suspect many of those who are hyperventilating over the bailout are people whose lives are consumed with debt and can't imagine life without a new credit card to plunder.

Like you, I don't buy anything I can't afford. It's a lifestyle choice that many are simply unwilling to make. Many Americans are like us, and those Americans do not see why they should pay (and it will be them who pays) for the constant excesses of their friends and neighbors who always had to have that new big screen TV, that new car, that new jet ski, that new snowmobile, that new wardrobe.

[AirmensMom]

42. It's not all black and white.

There is a responsible way to use credit cards. Not everyone uses them to buy things they can't afford.

[TexasObserver]

47. Guess what?

The problem is not those people, most of whom are a lot more like the OP and me. The problem is the people I described, who use debt as income, and then cannot pay it. THAT is what is killing banks, not responsible borrowers.

This part of the problem IS black and white. Bad borrowers have sucked out far more than they've paid in, and now they want the rest of us to co-sign their debt.

[AirmensMom]

66. Part of this discussion

appears to be about credit card use vs. no credit cards at all. I was responding to that part. Didn't mean to upset you.

We have always been very careful with debt. When we were shopping for our first home, the realtor was pushing homes that were more expensive than we felt comfortable with, just because we qualified for the loan. We bought an older fixer-upper, the bottom fell out of the market, and we sold it for $100 more than we'd paid for it six years after we bought it. It could have been a lot worse. Unfortunately, some people think that if the bank says they can afford it, they can make the payments. I prefer to make my own decision with that.

If it's so black and white, though ... consider this: Someone has been responsible and done everything "right" for their entire adult life, and then has an accident or unexpected serious illness, with or without health insurance. Do they use their credit cards to pay the medical bills? If not, what do they do? How can we protect ourselves against that? Have they suddenly turned into bad borrowers? I thought I read somewhere that a huge pile of credit card debt is due to medical bills. My husband has to have surgery this week and I'm scared shitless about all the bills that are going to be coming in.


Just trying to make sense of it all.

[supernova]

43. It's the same reason

I haven't remodeled my kitchen yet either.

I need a new kitchen... the floor needs to be done. I need a new water heater and it looks straight out of 1972, but I don't want to get a home equity loan to pay for it.

[TexasObserver]

48. Good for you. And your reward is ...

... all the deadbeats who spent credit card and home equity money like there was no tomorrow want YOU to dig deeper to help pay off their bad debts.

[CoffeeCat]

50. I'm a convert to this way of thinking...

I used to have store cards and credit cards--and a car payment.

For the past 6-7 years, we've been debt free.

We pay cash for everything, even our cars. We set up an ING account and save monthly for a car--until
we have enough. It's so liberating...it's an adventure!

When we want something, we pay cash for it. We often find that when paying with cash we get
things cheaper.

I walked into a car dealership with $100 bills and I paid cash (and 35 percent off the asking price) for
my current car. The dealer was willing to cut me a fantastic deal, because I was able to hand him cash
on the spot.

I also do this with other big purchases, such as furniture, appliances, etc. You think you can't haggle
at those stores, and they'll hem and haw, "Oh I can't do that...my manager won't let me." You just have
to be willing to walk away and go somewhere else. Last month, I noticed a piece of furniture on sale that
I loved, and it had been sitting there for 2 months. I talked the guy down to half the marked price, even though
it was on sale! He kept saying, "I can't do that...that would be giving it to you at cost." I just kept my
mouth shut and waited, until he finally said yes. Then, I paid cash.

Consumers don't realize how much power they have. We've been convinced that we need to finance everything and that
it's normal to have a car payment and that paying cash is weird.

It's fun to be WEIRD!

[TexasObserver]

57. Good for you!

Most people lack the personal discipline to do so.

People say "you have to have a car note." No, you don't. Not if you will buy the car you can afford. There are excellent cars that can be bought used, cars 5-10 years old, that give great service and cost about a third or less of a new car of the same model. But most consumers are driven by their need to have something newer, something flashier, something bigger, something that impresses their friends and neighbors more.

[Evoman]

86. I have a credit card and I find it almost impossible to use...like you, I pay cash.

Or I use my debit card.

I'm pretty fucking poor....right now, I'm saving 50 dollars a month so I can buy a new computer. I could go right now and use my credit card to buy a nice, new computer. But I won't. No matter how much I want it.

I don't understand how people can be in so much debt. I mean, I have debt in the form of student loans, but I'm paying as much off as I possibly can and still pay rent and bills. I've got $10 000 student loans and I make payments of 500 a month.

I just don't get how people can buy so much stuff with credit...I mean, don't they feel panicked? Don't they feel suffocated? Hell, I find owing a buddy five bucks unbearable. No fucking big screen tv or car is worth that feeling of suffocation.

[proud2BlibKansan]

69. I put X number of dollars into savings every month

and when I need a big ticket item, like an appliance, I use my savings. If the money isn't there I can't buy it. It's a great motivator to save.

[TexasObserver]

80. Our parents understood this better than we do.

And we understand it better than our children.

Sure makes a lot of sense.

[TZ]

44. You do know that if the credit crunch is not fixed there will be NO STUDENT LOANS

Can you pay for your kids college out of your savings? Can most people?
Do you think most people can afford to buy a house without a loan? A car?
This ISN'T about effing CREDIT CARDS....
Oh and people who have pensions tied to the stock market and they are retired and lost a good bit of savings do you think they are okay?

[TexasObserver]

53. And you know this because someone on TV told you.

Get real. Loans are made where people can afford to pay them. This credit crunch is partly real, but largely contrived TO MAKE PEOPLE LIKE YOU BELIEVE THEY HAVE TO ACT TO SAVE college loans, payrolls, and such.

Money follows returns, always. If someone CAN repay a loan, they'll find a loan.

Stop believing everything mainstream media feeds you. A defense contractor globalist corp owns CNBC and NBC and MSNBC. What do you think they'll say? They know how to play on your fears, and do so. Just like they tried to spook you into supporting the Patriot Act and IWR, they're trying to spook you into believing YOUR future is tied to their agenda.

$700 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to the downturn we are facing. It's literally a bandaid, a short term infusion of cash to fix some Bush problems before he limps out of office.

[AlphaCentauri]

54. Time to change the system if it doesn't work

Instead of having private companies providing students loans, the government should take over and manage those loans, let the car manufactures to issue the loan for a new car. What is making the system fail is that there are so many middle man involved in loans and mortgages.

[EFerrari]

58. My mom's business has ground to a halt. There is no financing.

Yesterday was the first time I ever heard her sound fearful. People don't really understand what this means for small business.

[TexasObserver]

64. If your mother's business is connected to areas experiencing decline, that's what happens.

Anything that is connected to real estate is probably going to suffer. Appraisers, real estate brokers, contractors - all in trouble because the housing market is in trouble.

Anyone who borrows to make a payroll is probably in trouble, because that is an unsound business practice and suggests the borrower is spending money they aren't making.

What makes you think the bailout will have any impact on your mother's business?

[AllieB]

72. No one realizes that mostly everything they purchase-food, clothes-are connected to a credit line

The vendor/companies credit line allows it to keep goods in stock. I'm sorry for your mother. We have a lot of businesses suffering here in Boston too. So many people on DU are so judgemental and have little understanding of how things work.

People also don't understand what this means for taxes. Most states borrow money to make its routine quarterly local aid payments to cities and towns. They also borrow money to make payroll and pay for services like snow removal and infrastructure repair. If the line of credit is frozen, or those funds fall through, the taxpayer absorbs the burden through increased taxes. So it can get ugly on many levels.

[EFerrari]

73. Yep. My grocer friend looks very grim right now.

He runs a small mom n pop and is about five years from retirement. My friends around the corner have a cafe. These are the hardest working people I know and the heart of our neighborhood. They're being held up at gunpoint by BushCo pretty directly. :(

[AllieB]

75. I am writing an OP on this right now.

The attitudes and lack of understanding of basic economics is pretty surprising on a board like DU.

[proud2BlibKansan]

70. We have paid cash for college so far

Since we have very little debt, we have more cash on hand than most folks. And as I said in another post, I did have a mortgage. Paid it off early by saving and not having credit card bills. And I do have a car loan.

The people who lost money on pensions (I am one of them) need to hold the financial institutions responsible. Not the taxpayers.

[madokie]

46. Yes

Neither me nor my wife have ever had a credit card and we do alright. Neither of our sons do either and likewise.

I'm for a bailout for Americans but not the fatcats. They can jump out their 10th story windows for all I care.

[AlphaCentauri]

49. I did stop using my credit card 15 years ago

I been buying all my stuff with my debit card.

[SmokingJacket]

51. You've inspired me -- I'm getting rid of mine.

I only have one, pay it off every month, but you know what? It encourages me to spend too much.

Got my bill yesterday, ack.

[proud2BlibKansan]

71. Once I paid mine off - about 25 years ago,

I took the money I was spending on cc payments and put it in savings. I still do that, only it is a larger amount now. Then when I need something I would have used a credit card for, I take the money out of savings. If the money isn't there, we don't get to buy that new refrigerator or dishwasher we need. It's a great motivator to save.

[cat1985]

56. Financial Climate

I think in the current financial climate anyone still relying on credit cards to live is over stretching themselves.

[Hepburn]

59. Have two debit cards....and NO credit cards.

Have not have a credit card for at least 10 years. IMO, if I cannot afford to pay for it, I don't need. I was raised by a foreign born grandmother and that was her motto. A good one to live by, IMO.

My house is paid for, I have no bills except for monthly expenses, and I have been retired for about 10 years now. Yes, I have an old Honda and it suits me just fine. Why do I need anything more than what I have? I see no reason to go into debt to get things that I do not need.

:shrug:

[proud2BlibKansan]

79. You are my role model

I still have a car loan :)

[TexasObserver]

83. Same here.

And I do something else that many would consider unthinkable: I pay ahead on my bills. I keep a credit for cable, telephones, electricity, gas, water, yada yada yada. If I don't do anything for three months, my bills are already paid.

I do not have wants. I have needs.

Pascal said "I have discovered that all human evil comes from this - man's being unable to sit still in a room." While I'm not quite THERE, I do believe that most human evil comes from ego needs, not real needs. America is a country consumed with the acquisition of stuff that is supposed to impress you and me.

I'm impressed with frugal living, with accepting ordinary things. I make a good living, but for a long, long time I have lived by this creed: Don't own anything worth stealing.

It keeps the pride out of one's ownership game.

[bamacrat]

62. Neither do I.

But I am only 25, a college grad with student loans, I make ok and have no real need.