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I guess Time Magazine and I watched different debates.

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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 07:59 AM
Original message
I guess Time Magazine and I watched different debates.
Or maybe their TiVo lurched forward and skipped all of McCain's campaign "commercials".

Grading the Final Presidential Debate

By Mark Halperin / Hempstead, New York
Wednesday, Oct. 15, 2008

Obama

Substance:
Intelligent, knowledgeable, and an earnest explainer, as always, but to no real effect. Though he conveyed a general sense of his agenda, he did so without bothering to fight ardently for his case.

Grade: B


Style:
Appeared tired and irritable, and bore the ills of a poor make-up job. While initially seeming distracted and even resentful of the evening's activity, he eventually realized he needed to step up his game, and became more conversational and involved. Recovered after the rocky start to avoid anything transformative for his opponent.

Grade: B-


Offense:
Rarely went after McCain, and when he did, was indirect and often too vague.

Grade: C+


Defense:
Unrattled by frequent McCain attacks, but a little peevish in addressing the allegations tossed his way. He strained to defend his positions on health care and taxes and failed to express a fully-formed alternative explanation. Relying on polling data to excuse himself for the campaign's negative tone and implicitly for going back on his word on campaign financing, he seemed indifferent towards the recent mutual harsh words, placing the blame firmly with his opposition.

Grade: B+

During the first half of the debate, the Democratic nominee too often displayed his worst traits—petty, aloof, imperious—and behaved as if he had some place better to be, although he became warmer and more engaged as the evening progressed. He did not seem to have an explicit strategy, answering the questions piecemeal as they came his way, without driving a message or even a theme. He retained his consistently unflappable air, and had a few fine moments. If he was sitting on his lead, it worked—but perhaps at the expense of relinquishing part of it.

Overall grade: B

McCain

Substance:
Avoided the policy weeds, as usual, but sounded more engaged on his economic program, presenting a clear, thematic argument. He was also good on climate change, trade, taxes, and spending. It was an impressive performance from a politician who is generally more comfortable offering broad statements and displaying his compelling personality, than focusing on detail and nitty-gritty.

Grade: A-


Style
For forty minutes, he was cogent, friendly, and yet sharp when he needed to be. Well aware of the stakes and his underdog circumstance, he worked hard to hit all his marks. Showed genuine empathy about the ramifications of the battered economy, small business struggles, and even childhood obesity. But he lost points during the second half of the session by falling back on the awkward, cranky tics that have marred his earlier performances.

Grade: B+

Offense:
Hit Obama again and again, almost always with authority and command rather than desperation. Repeatedly steered the evening's discussion to a plumber named Joe who talked about taxes with Obama during a recent campaign event—and scored points. He deftly used opposition research on Obama's record, and did so far more effectively than in the first two debates. Skillfully attacked his opponent for not keeping his word on campaign financing and for refusing to hold joint town meetings. At times, though, he became too agitated and lost focus, particularly when he raised the Ayers matter—still a negative bridge too far for many.

Grade: A-


Defense:
Dramatically proclaimed "I am not President Bush" with toughness and clarity, in one of the few true "moments" in any of the debates—the tangible ripple of reaction from the (albeit silent) crowd signaled that the video clip will be replayed many times.

Grade: A-

During the first half of the debate, the Republican nominee showed off the best of himself—dedicated, sincere, patriotic, cheery, earnest, commanding—all without seeming old or anxious. He even scored some points in the "change" category, against the candidate who has owned the theme. He was also clear, upbeat, and totally on message. To his detriment, however, he became more aggressive and distracted during the second half, and perhaps lost a chance for the truly dramatic event he needs to change the game. Still, if a silent majority of persuadable voters watched the debate, they saw why McCain's advisers have faith in him and still believe he can win this race.

Overall Grade: A-


http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1850933,00.html


I'm sorry, but they feel that some of Obama's traits are being petty, aloof and and imperious? okaaaay....

They seemed unfazed by McCain's continued willingness to lie about Obama.

Whatever sells, I guess.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
1. I think the general consensus from the media is that Obama was 'cautious' -
that's what they're grading on.

I personally thought that this was Obama's best, and McCain's worst, so I'm totally in disagreement with them all.

Doesn't matter -- We're still going to win. McCain didn't bring any game-changers and only probably impressed those who are in his camp anyway.

Not to worry.

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PerpetuallyDazed Donating Member (806 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #1
15. I must be biased!
I took the "caution" for thoughtfulness, nuance, and maturity.

It seemed so blatantly obvious to me that Obama was the adult in this debate and McCain was the angry child. It seemed like McCain's agenda was playing "gotcha" all night and not focusing on tangible issues! Obama won the debate, but the American people LOST tonight. :(
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 09:44 AM
Response to Reply #15
21. No, I think the vast majority of American people feel Obama did better.
It's the pundits who are dissecting it who are giving McCain more credit than he deserves.

As I said, I personally thought this was Obama's BEST and McCain's WORST.


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AirmensMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
2. That won't sell a magazine to me.
:puke: I sat in the dentist's office yesterday reading Time, for lack of any other magazines. They sure do seem to be in the tank for McCain.

Anyone who could give McCain anything better than a C for style doesn't understand the definition.

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riverdeep Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:07 AM
Response to Original message
3. Grade on November 4th: FAIL.
I'll grant that someone could have taken this away from the debate. Especially after the eighth rum and coke. I totally disagree with it, especially the part about if persuadable voters see what he sees business, doing a little bit of homework would show they didn't. But none of that matters because barring some momentous event or fumble, McCain will be back to warming his chair in the Senate.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. That's how I see it.
:shrug:
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
4. "Substance- Avoided the policy weeds, as usual..."
Um, the policy weeds are the substance, nimrods.

:grr:
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:17 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. My impression, too.
And Time let him slide on his cutesy tricks about "overhead projectors" and the like.

meh.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:23 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. I honestly believe that he doesn't know what his policies, especially economic, are.
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EmperorHasNoClothes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:10 AM
Response to Original message
5. Don't worry, they'll change the grades
as soon as they see the polls showing the public overwhelmingly favored Obama last night. They always do.
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KharmaTrain Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:18 AM
Response to Original message
8. Halperin = Apologist Tire Swinger...
This is the dude who says Drudge rocks his world...and is one of the laziest stenographers out there.

While Gramps has alienated some in his former "base" of the corporate media...he still has a lot of friends who are trying to cover his ass and generate some positive buzz to affect the "conventional wisdom". Halperin is a hack who was watching that debating "wishing and hoping" to see and hear things...anything that came close got a good grade for Gramps and a trashing for Obama. No surprise there. Halperin had to toss his old buddy a bone...he wants a good seat at the next Sedona BBQ.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. Hm. I was unaware of Halperin.
Perhaps he's trying to convince Rush Limbaugh to vote for McCain in November.
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Patiod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
9. Obama's Strategy?
To just sit back and let the sputtering old fool put off even MORE Americans.
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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:21 AM
Response to Original message
10. Another hatchet job by Mark Halpern.
He's soooo much in the tank on the right, it's pitiful.
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Raster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #10
22. Halpern might as well be writing for The National Review.
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marions ghost Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:22 AM
Response to Original message
11. Time: Grade F
Haven't read Time in this Millennium and don't intend to anytime soon.

They've sold out to the Dark Side :thumbsdown:
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lamp_shade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:24 AM
Response to Original message
13. No surprise here. It was Mark Halperin. n/t
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:31 AM
Response to Original message
14. Decorum: F-
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
16. McCain keeps telling us he knows how to do this, that, and the other thing
He knows how to create jobs, he knows how to get bin Laden, ad naseum. He is short on what his plans are to achieve those goals. Bush was all about job creation too, in the campaign. He lost far more than he gained.

I hope that the federal workers pick up on the spending freeze. That would of course involve no raises, and would put in question replacing retiring and moving on job positions. Does that mean that he would veto any raises for Congress?
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. McCain is promising that he knows where bin Laden is and will kill him instantly if elected Prez.
I guess if McCain loses, bin Laden continues to wander the globe unhindered.
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MiniMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. He apparently wouldn't tell Georgie, so he is holding the country hostage
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Do you think we should vote for McCain just in case he does know where bin Laden is hiding?
I'm soooooo tempted.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
19. Cogent friendly and sharp? Huh?
This IS the crypt keeper we're talking about here, right? Let me guess, he was friendly because he didn't once call Obama "boy" or "that one"? McCain made me want to vomit just about every time he opened his mouth. If not for the content of his argument then for his extremely sickly demeanor. The man looks like death warmed over.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-16-08 09:42 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. He was friendly and sharp for 40 minutes. Then, his bastard side emerged once more.
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