Is ANYTHING different from the vote-rigging operation the pukes set up in 2004?

[dailykoff]

Apart from a few personnel changes (OH and CA secretaries of state) and several more Rove-appointed US Attorneys (still in office), has ANYTHING been done to prevent another election heist? It appears that the same useless machines are in use in the same states, and the same vote-suppression tricks are being pulled in even more states.

I fail to see how a majority no matter how large can be "theft-proof" if there is no accountability whatsoever in the electronic aggregation and tabulation of precinct votes, not to mention voter purging, caging, election place switches, and all the funny business that goes on with provisional ballots.

Somebody please cheer me up. :cry:

[EFerrari]

1. Infrastructure. We've had four years to build election protection

infrastructure. More eyes and hands on our side. Imho, that's the most important thing.

Howard Dean knows, he gets it. He's on our side and he's smart. Ditto Obama.

We're 'way ahead of where we were in 2004.

[dailykoff]

2. Okay he gets it. What exactly is different?

There were thousands of attorneys watching last time too. What could they do? The preventable mischief happened before the election and the bulk of the heist was electronic. That's the problem.

[EFerrari]

7. I can't tell you what can be done until we know how they will steal it.

And it's not a matter of waiting for lawyers. This is OUR election, not Obama's. It's OUR job to secure it, not his.

We can deduce it will probably be in one or more of the swing states, with vote shaving in a lot of places. We've seen the voter suppression at work already, and Ohio is fighting back and so is Obama and so is Conyers. Voters in WV are protesting vote flipping. That's probably all that can be done for now, besides preparing our people to defend their votes at the polls.

I asked Mark Crispin Miller about this in an interview that we're going to finish up in the next couple of days. Let's see what he says.

You're asking good questions. Better now than on November 5. We should probably keep this thread kicked until then to add ideas.

[orleans]

12. i adore mcm. i went to see him, got a chance to meet him

i had even bought ten copies of 'fooled again' and sent them off to various members of congress--little good that did (i even removed the dust jacket on the few i sent to republicons so as not to overly offend them!)

ask mark a question for me: why the hell hasn't congress vanquished these fucking machines? why wasn't this pursued? why wasn't this a priority? (in his opinion)

i can understand republikas not pushing this issue--since they seem to benefit the most from rigged elections--but the dems? was it that they didn't want to appear to tin-foilish? or they are so smug they just figure it can't be rigged because they made it to congress?

be sure to link your article because i'd love to read it.

[EFerrari]

17. I met Mark in San Francisco. At the time, Doug & I bought copies

for the first five people on our list that showed up at the reading. Mark led the best discussion I've ever seen. It was surprising to hear how much people really did know. :wow:

[dailykoff]

13. Thanks looking forward to the interview..

So many people have sounded the alarm but the thing that worries me is that there's no fire department at the other end of the line. Votes are flipped in WV, do they impound the machines? No, the show must go on, just like it did in 04, and it's hard to imagine how even sheer numbers will make much of a difference, except maybe in public perception.

I think a lot of people figure the pukes will be relieved to let Obama take over, but the thing is the ones behind all this evil shit are looking down the barrel of a gun potentially. Dumbya might pardon all the top guns but that leaves a sizable cadre of underlings who would probably rather not be hauled into a Nuremberg proceeding, so they're working hard to make sure that can't happen.

[EFerrari]

14. We have to hang in, dailykoff.

As to WV, they supposedly recalibrated some machines. Yeah, right. But I bet it will be an issue early this week.

:hi:

[dailykoff]

28. If the media smelled blood in the water they might talk it up.

I suppose it could happen, but it would have to be a pretty stiff stink.

[FlyingSquirrel]

30. Recalibrated to stop showing the vote flip on-screen!

And just do it internally.

x(

[EFerrari]

31. Ya think?

:grr:

Let's call the DNC tomorrow and ask them :wtf:

[Selatius]

8. Supposedly, Kerry did notice things about Ohio in 2004 but there was no paper evidence to prove it.

So he had no real choice but to concede. I don't know if there are laws in place in Ohio mandating a paper receipt of each vote cast on electronic voting machines so that the voter and the state can verify that the vote cast really did go to the proper candidate. If there was a law like that, then Kerry could've called for a random audit of the paper receipts to see if the receipts matched what the e-voting machines showed.

[dailykoff]

16. There were thousands and thousands of uncounted provisional ballots.

They've still never been counted. Kerry knew about it, was assured by Carville I think that it wouldn't make a difference, and conceded. Only later did we find out that it would have made a huge difference and according to Fritakis at least Kerry won Ohio on provisional ballots alone.

[BlooInBloo]

3. No nothing's different. We're doomed.

[dailykoff]

5. Well you're half right at least.

I don't think anything has materially changed, but I'm hoping we're not doomed. However, I really don't see much cause to be hopeful.

[althecat]

4. Our eyes are definitely more open than 2004 - but not as open as they ought to be.

Seems to me we could still easily end up getting royally shafted. I hope not... but its definitely a real possibility even with a 10 point lead to Obama.

[dailykoff]

6. Yes, I think it's all too possible

and if it goes down like it did last time, it won't matter how big the majority is. They can produce their own numbers and the media will dutifully report them.

p.s. anyway thanks for trying to cheer me up, also sfexpat, I haven't lost hope but man oh man am I worried.

[billyoc]

9. Fewer DRE machines, 5000 lawyers, plus the Union lawyers.

Cheating doesn't ALWAYS mean winning.

[babylonsister]

10. I don't know and it worries me. But the blow-out enthusiasm has me

jazzed. Obama is loved by lots of people, more every day. Did you see this?


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x7525293

[dailykoff]

23. Oh we all know he's going to get the lion's share of the vote.

This race has been over for some time, but Dumbya has been running the show for eight years and lost both his elections. Maybe McCain doesn't have the stomach to withstand the national hatred that would be directed his way, but I imagine Barbie does.

[TxBlue]

11. Check this site & think about donating: RoveCybergate.com

If almost 700,000 buckaroos could be raised in 36 hours or so for that MN congress race against that brainless wannabe McCarthyite woman, how much could be raised for RoveCybergate.com to stop the gop election fraud operation.


Obama drawing 100k give or take to rally this last week. I've never heard of a pol drawing such numbers.

People except the Fox koolaid drinkers are sick of the way things are going. It definitely looks like a landslide

UNLESS

gop steals election. After reading that RoveCybergate.com site, it looks like they've been engaged in this for several election cycles.

Shouldn't DU, kos, et al be devoting donations, energy, getting the issue of election fraud on MSM and focusing on this

AND

Forgetting about all the distractions that are hitting blogs/news cycles multiple times a day. Like whether or not you like Powell, Caribou Barbie's hairdo or appearances or whatever..pretty much anything about that boring drivel,SNL=more boring drivel, movie W, worry levels, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera that gets posted here multiple of multiple times on DU.

Just sayin'

[AndyTiedye]

15. Their Vote-Stealing Operation Has Gotten Bigger

The voter purges they did 4 years ago were small change compared to the Great Voter Purge of 2008.
They have undone all of our massive voter registration drive, with interest!
This is why Zogby is using 2004 party registration ratios.

They have also got even more rigged voting machinez in place than ever before.
Already they are switching Democratic votes to Republican in West Virginia.
Though it IS an achievement for our side that the 'Piggies HAVE to steal West Virginia!

The media is hyping ACORN to give the Repiggies cover to disenfranchise millions of voters.
They are hyping the "Bradley Effect" to provide a ready-made excuse for a red shift of as
much as 6% of the vote.

THAT MEANS WE HAVE TO BE AT LEAST 12% AHEAD ON ELECTION DAY.

We need a landslide. Anything less and they steal it.

[dailykoff]

19. I hope the landslide plan works.

No doubt he'll get it, but there are so many holes in the vote aggregation systems I don't see how even a 12% majority necessariyly assures victory, though of course, I hope I'm completely wrong.

[AndyTiedye]

20. It Doesn't, But The Disparity Would Be Harder to Explain

Though perhaps they are beyond even bothering with explanations anymore,
and they are counting on the folks we see at their rallies to beat us down
or shoot us down. I'm sure they'd be willing.

[stellanoir]

18. More conscious people is one very good answer.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=2589421

I'm workin' on a new one though to address the repressive efforts I've learned of subsequently.

It might just help.

Who knows . . . ? But we must consider having faith in the will of the people being expressed and registered for the first time in ages.

Acorns are for squirrels. That's not to say I have anything against squirrels.

Chin up.

[dailykoff]

21. I have great faith in Obama's campaign and hope that there are plans afoot

that have not been made public, and I think public consciousness is also helpful, but so far it's been like 2004 redux. Same horror stories from the same states, and now the registration deadlines are past and we're floating in the same leaky boat. Scary.

[TxBlue]

24. No doubt but they can't do everything

Did they turn around the Bachmann race in MN?

No? Bloggers, you say? Almost 700,000 dollars in 36 or so hours?

Thangs that make you go
hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[stellanoir]

29. Yeah but

people are generally more conscious. We can count on that. Maybe.

[TxBlue]

22. Recommend this Thread & others about Voter Fraud

Spread this website far and wide.

RoveCybergate.com

Donate to it. Get it viral.

Try to focus and ignore distracting threads and posting them about who likes what and all that fluff that won't
achieve our goal of getting Mr. Obama in the WH!

After that be as carefree as a bird, but let's focus on this now! Otherwise, all the money and time donated won't
mean a thing and we'll will be mucho unhappy for 4 more loooooong years.

[dailykoff]

25. Thanks for the link

here's where it took me which looks very interesting: http://www.velvetrevolution.us/prosecute_rove/

[TxBlue]

26. yep, that's it! Interesting, isn't it?

[dailykoff]

27. Well, at least they're getting to the bottom of the 2004 heist.

That's a start anyway. :thumbsup:

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

32. The question of whether or not it will be stolen...

...is not one of "Can they?" but "Will they?"

If they choose to do it, it will be stolen.

[Senator]

33. Cheer Up . . . But Don't Let Up!

Our side beat "The Math" last time around. Yes, it was just an off-year but that's still something.

There have been many local (invisible) improvements since 2004. With paper backups, dumped electronics, early voting, same-day registrations, and on and on. Local areas less vulnerable to manipulation because of the local people. People who are also now on alert.

While it's easy to imagine unlimited funding and willing personnel to carry out unlimited election theft capacity, that's not the reality. It is accomplished be local true-believers, manipulating their local areas of control, and promising to "deliver the goods" on election day. Virtually all of them really do delude themselves into thinking they are "saving the nation" from the evil thieves on the other side.

However, people went to jail for Ohio last time. So the message has gone out that you may be caught, and of course hung out to dry by the big shots. Particularly if the executive branch may no longer be the vote theft capital of the world. Many of these locals will just make promises, then make excuses. These thugs are virtually all stone cowards. This is another "invisible" obstacle to theft.

And there is in fact a "theft-proof" majority if it's only vote counts being considered. That's the real reason for all this "voter fraud" (registration fraud) business. You can't sell fraudulent results without fraudulent registrations. No one will buy a result with 75% Dem turnout and 120% Rep turnout. They are hard-limited to local registration numbers.

Now, a New Felonious Five on the (formerly) supreme court is another matter entirely (sorry to get less cheery). They may well opt to simply "disqualify" entire states and dictate an appointed ruler again. But again, while this is easy to imagine, it comes with grave, long-term risks. It cost them Sen. Jeffords in 2000 and could cost them several Senators and dozens of Reps if they force another 4 years of operable fascism.

In any case, we have been building momentum, public awareness, and very tangible obstacles against the theft for years now. Is it enough? There's no way to know. But we need to keep rowing. Even if it feels like it's upstream.

Because the real race has always been between the theives and the reformers.

I think we're winning. But your mileage may vary.

=====

[TxBlue]

34. Kick

[EFerrari]

35. Kick