ATTN DUers: In 200 words or less, why is DU NOT just a mirror image of the FReikorps?

[tom_paine]

Why am I posting this, you ask?

Well, a few days ago in the glory of the DU Victory Celebration, another DUer, I cannot remember who, mentioned that the FReikorps' reaction to the McBush Defeat was essentially an identical mirror image of DU's reaction to the 2000 Stolen Election.

I took umbrage, but who could get angry on such a day, in such a week, so my response was gentle reproach - WWOD? LOL! - in the tone and I respectfully said that I STRONGLY DISAGREED with that assessment.

I was asked why.

Which brings me to my first reason that DU and FReikorps are not simply mirror images of each other, that, in order for me to be a consistent human being in my beliefs (to the extent that is possible, no one is perfect...far from it) I MUST be able to cogently defend my position with reason, not just blat talking points, but reasons I thought up myself.

As we all know, it is virtually impossible to have a truly original thought. As A. Pope said, "a dwarf standing on giant's shoulder's sees the farther of the two," and we all crib our ideas from other places, in some way, even if by osmosis.

So let's not turn this happy thread and happy week into a thread of flames and catcalling and nitpicking. NONE of us are truly original.

And let us remember the words of a man I have come to see we should all be truly proud is our President (how good it feels to CAPITALIZE that!) - Elect Obama, and let us be as gentle as possible with the horrid FReepers. I am NOT calling for censorship in any way, just for tactfulness and to show the FReikorps how REAL patriots :patriot: behave in victory.

With humility and conciliation for our Fellow Americans, as Thomas Jefferson said long ago and Obama said a week ago.

And, yes, if you feel you MUST go overboard and rant and shit all over the Freikorps, you are free to do so, but note that Obama and I and most of DU (I hope) rejects you on this.

As President-Elect Barack HUSSEIN Obama (say it PROUDLY people) said one election night, We are not just a collection of Red States and Blue States, we are and always will be the United States of America!

So, let your hair down, DUers, and just tell it like it is. WHY isn't DU a mirror image of the lunatic FReikorps?

I don't care if you don't think you can write so good. Give it a shot and let it hang out. YES YOU CAN!



As for me, what are my other reasons I strongly believe that we are not just simply a mirror image of the FReikorps?

Not gonna tell you. I want you to tell ME (and all the Freikorps and CU lurkers) why.

[Uben]

1. One word.......

..........I N T E L L I G E N C E !

[BeFree]

2. Well

We care about other people. Shock and awe is not a family-friendly term here. Bush never was our president.

[dweller]

3. our website is cooler

:D


dp

[Mike 03]

4. Off the top of my head

Compassion, Intelligence, and Ideological Flexibility. Many of the people here are willing to have their eyes opened and minds changed by a persuasive argument. I've changed my mind about a number of issues as a result of positive dialogue with others here.

[tom_paine]

7. You touched on one of mine there. n/t

[Mike 03]

11. Just to add:

Sophistication and nuance of the posts and discussions here. DU seems to comprise a much wider canvas. There is a subtlety and nuance to the discussion here I've not seen over at Free Republic, but then again I don't spend much time there.

DU seems multi-dimensional in a way that is not easy to describe.

I think DU aspires to be more than FR. People go to FR to agree with each other and commiserate. While I've done my fair share of commiseration here, I come here to see what others have to say about the issues that concern me.

Also, by the very nature of the Democratic Party, by definition DU has to accommodate a much more complex and varied group of people.

(Sorry for all these edits; the more I think about your question, the more I want to say about it. It's an important question to ask.)

[tom_paine]

18. Jeez, Mike, don't stop now, you're doing great. Forget the 200 word restriction.

That was a rhetorical flourish more than anything else.

You're on a roll here and I'd like to see where this train of thought leads.

I'm enjoying the ride.

(pulls cord toots train whistle twice LOUD...)

[ProfessorGAC]

97. Great Couple Of Posts, Mike

Well stated and pretty difficult with which to find fault.

Well done, sir.
The Professor

[onehandle]

5. DUers don't threaten the lives of our political opponents. nt

[greguganus]

6. We spell more gooder than them Morans! n/t

[cosmik debris]

8. Difference?

Freepers call our leader a terrorist and want him killed.

DUers call their leader a fascist and want him incarcerated.

DUers claim that we are living in a fascist police state where the constitution is meaningless.

Freepers claim we want to establish a fascist police state where the constitution is meaningless.

DUers demonize them as racist, fascists, and evil while Freepers demonize us as communists, terrorists and surrender monkeys.

I'm not really sure that there is a substantive difference, but I am curious about what others might say.

[tom_paine]

9. I welcome your differing opinion to this thread, sir.

:toast:

I am glad to see it, and I hope you are one of dozens or even hundreds who think that way who come here to this thread to see the collective DU Reply.

:toast:

I very much hope that it will, in fact, give you reason to change your mind.

:toast:

[cosmik debris]

13. I'll change my perception

When the facts change. The "collective DU reply" contains way too much cognitive dissonance.

[tom_paine]

16. As you wish. In understand and respect your position.

And whatever the various posts and discussions here, I hope you understand that there is no cognitive dissonance in mine, whether you agree or disagree.

And if you think there is, please, I don't need to hear it. Let us just end this conversation on this pleasant and mutually amicable note, and I'll see you somewhere down the road on the DU Boards.

:hi:

Thanks for your intelligent conversation.

[hfojvt]

38. probably none of those are universal on either side though

People often start threads with "DU is doing this" whether it is bashing Crocodile Hunter or blaming black people for Prop 8 passage, when it is only being done by a dozen DUers or certainly less than 100 in a community of thousands (some of whom are probably undercover FReepers). Even when it came to pi$$ing on the grave of Ford or Falwell, we had DUers on both sides (by which I do not mean both sides of the grave)

This may be a difference between DU and FR. We are split. We have huge, on-going battles over almost every issue, from Snickers commercials to Tookie to Immigration to Israel/Palestine to gun control to smoking to Olive Garden to the bailout we have scores of DUers arguing passionately on both sides (or more), and there is not (AFAIK) a consistent split between group A (call them moderates) and group B (call them Greens) in each battle. Even if there was an official or unofficial DU majority opinion on every issue, clearly there are many people here who argue against that majority opinion.

Secondly, there is a matter of evidence. FR calls Obama a terrorist, and DU supposedly calls Bush a fascist. Those two are only equivalent if they are both equally untrue. I am reminded of the 2004 election. The local media would do "truth-checking" on the candidates and say "they are both wrong/lying" except they would make an equivalence between a trivial error by Kerry and Bush essentially purposefully saying "2 + 2 = 5". We, OTOH, have almost as much bashing of Democrats here as we have bashing of Republicans. With Democrats in charge of Congress and the White House, I think many DUers will be just as critical of Democrats as FReepers, albeit for different reasons.

[DoctorMyEyes]

61. spot on

I can only add that I see our "fringe" as a lot more harmless than theirs. I'll take a left wingnut extremist over a right wingnut extremist any day. Ours are sweet - theirs are dangerous.

[OffWithTheirHeads]

10. Uhmmm...We have spell check?

nt

[Bobbie Jo]

48. ...and use it.

[tom_paine]

49. Love your avatar.

I think I'm in love. :loveya:

[zoner4]

52. haha

[Bobbie Jo]

54. :)

:hi:

[tom_paine]

63. :-)

:loveya: :hi: :loveya:

You're married, aren't you? The best gals always are...(sigh)

[Old and In the Way]

12. If the tables were reversed and a Democrat had performed like Bush over the past 8 years,

there'd be 2 posters left on DU supporting the Democrats. We generally support our candidates, but we'd never excuse criminal behavior simply because we share a political label.

[tom_paine]

17. Another one of mine. n/t

[hfojvt]

40. I think we might. We might love a President who performed like Bush

Because Bush consistently delivered for his base. Gave them what they wanted - tax cuts for the rich, cuts in social programs, arch-conservative judges, war, attacks on public schools, blocking stem cell research, ignoring global warming and other environmental concerns, etc., etc.

Give us a President who delivered on our agenda, and many of us would also be blind to his flaws. Just like we don't mind that he flip-flopped on public financing.

[vixengrl]

66. I dunno--flip-flopping on public financing and trying to figleaf

torture are very different animals.

(Please, bear with me, I do not mean to accuse you of an argument establishing false equivalences, but on the whole, the consequences of the Bush raft of "asks" from his side and the inconsistencies of our side are not really the same league--I just pull these two as the most glaringly disparate.)

To the extent that one decided after no especial written agreement that it would be effectively throwing the race to the smear campaign to do one, and to the extent that the other, after a body of written agreements, treaties, and moral arguments against occuring throughout history, decided to toss away habeas corpus and order torture, I don't see one of "ours" exactly doing what one of "theirs" did.

To go through the list of "giving them what they wanted" we received: a growing measure of economic inequality, a failure of government to service those who needed it most, judges who placed ideology ahead of freedoms, a disservice to those who expected and needed a good education in order to perform well in this society, a restriction on the freedom of scientists to persue valuable research, and a denial of the benefits of that research to those who might a) profit--for the research would mean business or b) find treatment and relief of illness, in that this was a valuable avenue. And as to ignoring global warming--the reslt is pushing back the time we have to try and stop the damage, and the furthering of the effects of climate change.

I try to imagine to what extent our desires would have equally harmful consequences, and am unpersuaded that they would. On the whole, although "liberals", our means and ends are the more "conservative" in effect.

I think I've felt this way for a long time, really. About the last ten years. I call it "The Blue Dress Paradox", privately.

I think I might need some examples of a Democratic "worst-case scenario" that doesn't resemble a freepers' fever-dream to see where we'd wink at similar:

And still be getting what we asked for.

[hfojvt]

108. everybody has a different idea of bad consequences

at least different groups do. In their view, our policies lead to over a million dead babies a year from abortions. Note, I am not saying their view is valid, but they certainly believe it is. We may shake our heads and ask how they can ignore global warming, civilian casualties, and habeas corpus and they wonder how we can ignore a million babies.

To give a couple examples from the memory hole. Back in the 1990s, President Clinton was issuing signing statements and using executive privilege to fight Congressional subpoenas. He also paid something like $700,000 to Paula Jones to settle her lawsuit. Granted that the adultery and lying about Lewinsky were not a big deal. (Certainly I would be willing to over-look that for my man John Edwards, if he actually kept pushing on his promises to end poverty.) But sexual harrassment at work IS a big deal - isn't it?

As I discovered during the primary season, President Clinton made phone calls to help kill SCHIP because he said it would hurt the budget agreement. Yet at the same time he was also pushing a tax cut with huge benefits for the wealthy, including a big reduction in the inheritance tax. DU's Hillary supporters did not want to hear any of this in the primary season.

It's human nature, we cover up or ignore the flaws of those we see as friends, and we magnify and exxagerate the flaws of those we see as enemies.

DU being Underground, and with a solid and vocal contingent of Greens and socialist symps, will always have a faction that is quite happy to bash Obama, Pelosi and Reid. At least I have not seen a purge while I have been here. But Obama, Pelosi and Reid will also always have their defenders here too.

[MadMaddie]

91. I don't know if that's true

Clinton did a lot of good things but the Monica thing pushed many of us to see him in a different light.

The truth is I didn't care if he got a hummer but I do care about him being careless and arrogant enough to think the neocons wouldn't find out and tar and feather him and the Democratic Party.

I think we are pretty critical of our own Democratic representatives. I think this because most if not everyone here is critical of themselves.

[ProfessorGAC]

98. That's Not The Same Base I See, Though

The base is see is the one who cares so much about fetuses. Nothing has been done to restrict abortion. Nothing has been done to roll back affirmative action for them. Nothing has been done to really slow down immigration.

So, the political base hasn't had very much at all delivered to them. It's the smaller, but richer, coterie that got their way and used the "base" as a political lever. So, you can see that the "base" on their side appears to be in the eye of the beholder. Much of that base got no real benefit from the Silverspoon gang.

I don't think we at DU would have been as forgiving of a dem administration who told us one thing and did another.
The Professor

[tom_paine]

101. Well said and true, Professor!

:hi:

[hfojvt]

105. that part of the base is sorta trapped

Maybe the Republicans have done nothing in regards to outlawing abortion, but dumping them for the Democrats is definitely not going to help in that regard either. Plus, if they think long term, presumably they picked up two SCOTUS judges who will vote to overturn Roe v. Wade.

Plus, I am not sure those fundies are that one-dimensional. Abortion is a key issue, but not the only issue even in the Catholic voters guide they hit three issues - stem cell research, abortion, and gay marriage. From talking to my cousin, I also learn that he does not like social programs, even though his dad took advantage of many as they were growing up. Also, they are, in the Reagan spirit - anti-government and anti-tax. So middle-middle class Republicans got a $1500 tax cut from Bush. They don't mind the fact that Wal-mart heirs got $1.5 million because a) many of them never get that information, it's not widely distributed by the M$M for some reason, and b) they hear counter-arguments from Sean, BillO and Rush - the rich got more because they pay more.

DU is always gonna be critical of Democrats because we have a spectrum of far-left to moderate and Democrats are likely to always be too moderate for the far-left group. But like the other side, we will mostly defend our guys as the lesser of two evils.

[Arkansas Granny]

14. Inherent curiosity and a willingness to explore new avenues in order to find better

solutions for the problems that face us. Also, questioning authority instead of blindly accepting that our elected officials know and will do what's best for us.

[1awake]

15. Mirror image.. hmmm

Well, In some respects, to be painfully honest, DU at times can be a mirror image. Anyone who denies that is kidding themselves.

Fundamentalist - strict adherence to any set of basic ideas or principles.

That's a generic definition but it holds true. Both sides have Fundamentalists always trying to establish litmus tests. Both sides have those professing the evil of the other side, and how they deserve nothing less than a dark and lonely end. This is a fact, so yes, at times.. depending on the circumstances, the mirror description can be accurate.

But overall, we are not just the polar opposite. Saying that over simplifies things and places both camps on equal ground, which they are not. We tend to use many different names for ourselves, but in the end what makes progressives different than extreme conservatives is how we view the issues at hand. We are always trying to help others in its most basic sense. Extending rights, granting rights to those who have been denied equal treatment, looking out for those in need. Extreme conservatives are always trying to wrap their arms around specific things in a vain and false sense of protecting what they see as theirs. That in itself is NOT a mirror image, but a fundamental difference of fear for losing one's own "possessions", verses hope to stand up for others.

I am not that great of a writer when it comes to these things, but to me thats.. well.. what I think. (did any of this make sense??)

[tom_paine]

20. Not only did that make sense, it made excellent sense and "Common Sense".

My favorite kind of DU Post to read!

Bravo.

:applause:

[hfojvt]

44. I don't think that is true

We are not always trying to help others. Take this latest firestorm over Propostion 8. Is that about "helping others"? Mostly it is from GLBT people or their close friends. That's about "helping themselves". There is not nearly that much passion, with some noteable exceptions, for the homeless or the working class. The fact that the Democratic Congress finally managed to raise the minimum wage was widely dismissed as "not a big deal". Not that I am any better, because a large part of my concern for the working class and the poor is because "If there is a lower class, I am in it."

[zoner4]

53. i agree

dont see it

[tom_paine]

71. Sometimes we stumble and fall, lose our way, get too many Nancy Pelosis in our party

when we aren't paying close enough attention.

But I think President Obama will surprise you. At least, I hope he will.

Yes, Prop 8 was bitter to all our GLBT friends on DU, and almost everyone here sympathizes (screw the few that don't).

Give it time. Changing a nation, and a National Mentality takes time, like turning a battleship only 10,000,000 times bigger.

We did our job, now we can only see.

And Eugene Victor Debs was without doubt one of our Great Americans throughout our relatively short history.

[Ediacara]

19. Our admins don't steal and our mods enforce the rules

In other words, even at Ashcroft's acme, there was no way this site could be shut down.

[tom_paine]

21. Hey DinoBoy! Long time no speak! WE DID IT, BUDDYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!

:toast: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :beer: :smoke: :toast: :party: :party: :beer: :smoke:

"Ashcroft's Acme".

Isn't that where the coyote shops?

[Ediacara]

23. I still have a hangover from last Tuesday

And as for Ashcroft, I was remembering back in the day right after 9-11 when Ashcroft was feared as a religious-fascist nutjob (and not viewed as Bush's most reasonable AG, as he is now).

[YOY]

22. Because we actually exchange ideas at time.

Because not everything is the fault of the right.

Because it's about sticking up for people who aren't "just like us" and not rallying around jingoistic flag waving chanting "USA! USA! USA!" without actually thinking about what is really best for the People of the United States of America.

My 2 cents.

[tom_paine]

33. A fine two cents, indeed. Thanks for this response.

[mainegreen]

24. I think your choice of term 'mirror image' is a good one.

We are in essence, a mirror image. But note that in a mirror, your image holds up it's right hand while you hold up your left. A mirror image is more than just the opposite. A mirror image is both the same and opposite. In many respects, we are a great deal like free republic. We are a political internet board consisting of a subset of idealogical and political positions. We react to the same stimuli, but our reactions are different. Our reactions to each stimuli may be different, but then we all react to the same stimuli with the same actions and intensity, but in opposite directions.

I think we are a mirror image, but I think that this is a good thing.

Our chirality is better, IMHO.

[tom_paine]

35. Chirality. LOVE IT.

I can die happily, now that I have seen that word used so excellently in a sentence!

:applause:

Yes...just so. Our chriality IS better

Jefferson and Paine vs. Savage and Loofah O'Harrassment.

No contest.

[BleedingHeartRN]

80. Chirality - love it!

In pharmacology, there is typically one enantiomer that is more effective with fewer adverse effects, interestingly termed by which direction they rotate polarized light to the left or right (either levorotary or dextrorotary). I'd like to think that we're the more effective, less harmful enantiomers.

The one thing I think that truly sets us apart is self-awareness. I for one cannot blindly repeat rhetoric as gospel truth. When I don't understand all the varibles involved in a complex problem, I make a point to gather as much information as possible before I engage in any heated discussions. Furthermore, the anti-intellectualism embraced by freepers only weakens their collective position. I've met some very bright conservatives, and they don't even come close to being freepers.

[tom_paine]

83. That's perhaps my MAIN reason: self-awareness n/t

[dkofos]

25. Most of us hear know how to use a spell checker.

[Starry Messenger]

29. Irony alert.

;)

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

32. Being generous: It could just be missing a comma...

[madmom]

26. Because we want to expand horizons not limit them. It seems to me most

DUers read, watch and absorb as much information from as many different venues as possible, while they have faux news.

[Coventina]

27. Nice Weimar reference. Has that been used on DU before?

It fits perfectly.....

:thumbsup:

To answer your question: this election wasn't stolen. The 2000 election was stolen. It was our patriotic duty to express our displeasure. They are trying to undermine the people's legitimate choice.

[tom_paine]

36. Now that you force me to think about it, I have never seen this terminology on DU.

And never with the FR capitalized to signify our "chiral" mirror images.

I guess that makes it a tom_paine Original...copyright pending.

:rofl:

[rug]

28. There is no doppelganger for matcom.

[tom_paine]

41. Nor for his magical stair-walking ass-cheeks.

As a heterosexual man, even I am aroused!

Oh, maaaaatcoooooommmmmmmmmm :loveya:

Oh, yet ANOTHER difference betwenn us and the FReikorps is that even now, dozens of pimple-faced College Young & Cowardly Republicans at Little Green Footballs and Lucianne.com and CU and of course the FReikorps itself are rushing to blog tom_paine DUmmiy admitz hee iz queire!1!!11!!! I'm SERIES!!1!!!!

ON EDIT: OH SHIT, I broke my own "thread rule" about not bashing the FReikorps. Oh well. Nobody's perfect. I stand behind my words. Grow up, babies, and enlist in the US Armed Forces.

You badly need the character building and strengthening, FReikorpsers, Little Green Footballers (you disgrace a noble sport by using it's name, jerkwads), Hannidiots, Savage Weiners, and assorted Crybaby Dittoheads.

Enlist today. If President Barack HUSSEIN Obama, God Forbid, sends you off to die in a foreign land, take heart in that it will be for a good cause, and only if ALL diplomatic options have been absolutely exhausted.

:patriot:

[shadowknows69]

30. We don't suck

That's less than 200 words isn't it? :evilgrin:

[Mrs. Overall]

31. For the first time, I have been perusing FR in light of the election

and here is what I have noticed:

1. Many opinions and assessments by FR members are based on religion, specifically Fundamentalist Christianity (both Protestant and Conservative Catholic). Rather than using critical thought and reason, they will back up arguments with biblical allusions and their personal faith.

2. Intolerance is tolerated at FR, but not on DU. On DU there is a certain amount of intolerance, but it mostly aimed at individuals and groups who are intolerant. I am completely fine with being intolerant of intolerance, but on FR I have been absolutely shocked at the racial slurs and the hatred of ethnic groups that their moderators allow. Hatred against immigrants, blacks, and Muslims seems to be completely acceptable. The last few weeks there have been entire threads that were written in stereotypical black dialect complete with slurs. People get fired in the real world for such behavior.

3. Advocation of violence is also acceptable on FR, but not on DU. FR has assassination posts, a call to arms against neighbors who are Democrats, posts in favor of eradicating countries with nuclear weapons, and sterilizing minorities. Again, these posts and threads are not removed by the moderators.

4. Diversity of opinion is not allowed on FR, but is allowed on DU. Members are tomb-stoned quickly on FR if they seem to introduce ideas that are not strictly adherent to conservative Republican ideology. Exploration of ideas and intellectual curiosity are not allowed, which leads me to believe that the level of education of FR members is not very high. I think we on DU probably appear fractured with a lot in-fighting, but that is because we encourage critical thought and looking at the complexity of issues.

I went over 200 words! I think there are more distinctions as well. I'm very curious about this political division because I grew up in a Republican household and the majority of my family are prejudiced and scoff at education. I'm the black sheep.

[tom_paine]

37. So many great replies on this thread, but this reply stands out as among the very best of them.

:applause:

[Hubert Flottz]

34. We come here because we want to know...

We are not happy with the corporate talking points we hear or read in the MSM...we'd like to know the truth, even if it's not so easy to take sometimes.

[Caliman73]

39. While we may get riled up and appear as close minded at times...

That is part of the human condition. When passions are stoked, they can disrupt the rational thought process. In that way we can be similar to our Freeper counterparts. That is where the similarity ends. As stated in other replies, DU tends to thrive on heterogeneity much like the Democratic party. We still have our prejudices and biases, but we strive to understand differences and incorporate it all into a shared identity. Freepers tend to thrive on a homogeneous mindset and conformity to some idea of established and appropriate culture. While we step on each others toes here, we usually come to an understanding that we have to agree to disagree and move on. In freeperland, that kind of dissent is squashed. There doesn't seem to be any concept of an intelligent argument over there just "step into line or else...".

[GliderGuider]

42. One word

Compassion.

[tom_paine]

43. I now wish I HADN'T PUT A WORD COUNT RESTRICTION ON. Use as many words as you like...

:toast:

[LeftyMom]

45. Spelling.

[Joe Fields]

46. This week is a perfect example.

If the shoe were on the other foot, and let's say that Obama was a republican, and his choice for Chief of Staff was Rahm Emanuel. I don't think you would have seen any dissension through the rank and file republican electorate. It seems like anything that the republican leadership does is just fine with Joe Repub.

[curse of greyface]

47. Spellcheck. nt

[northofdenali]

50. Easy, even without reading any other responses -

DU members know how to think. We use reason as opposed to emotional/unthinking reaction.

[NoGOPZone]

51. Have you seen that relic they call a website?

There were dial up bulletin boards in the 90s more user friendly than FR.

[QC]

55. DU has a much nicer design. n/t

[noiretextatique]

56. we don't support election theft and using scotus to stop recounts

that's the big difference between the reaction here in 2000 and the reaction there in 2008. they were cheering and unjust "victory" in 2000 and they are experiencing a devastating defeat in 2008.

[Lerkfish]

57. the fact that you can even post this thread?

maybe someone else already mentioned this: I havent read the thread all the way yet.

[Time for change]

58. We believe in democracy

We don't try to win elections by disenfranchising our fellow Americans. When we win an election it's in spite of voter disenfranchisement, not because of it.

Anyhow, that's a great question.

[Starry Messenger]

59. I love all the replies in this thread.

So many stand outs. The thing I want to add is that FR is really a closed loop. The "news" stories they post to comment on are from Townhall, Hannity, Savage, Heritage Foundation, NewsMax etc. They avoid mainstream news like the pest and now they've even moved Fox onto their shit list. We're talking about a group of people that think Fox is too liberal. They actually think the predigested opinion pieces they read on FR are the news. They get their opinions reinforced.

I recently highlighted a thread that was standing proof that many freepers simply never venture beyond the confines of three or four websites. They think the internet is full of threatening trash and that is that. Garbage in, garbage out.

I doubt you could say that about most DU-ers.

[Cleita]

60. Although I was one of those who said they sounded like us, there is

one huge difference. Bush was never a legitimately elected POTUS. There has always been that shadow over him for both elections. Obama is without a doubt a legitimately, democratically elected President reflecting the true will of the people in spite of all the election tampering that was attempted this time. If there had been that same certitude about Bush, I would have put my tail between my legs, gone home and accepted my fate as a minority and not a majority. Freepers should do the same.

[TheWraith]

62. A hell of a lot of DU's energy is devoted to bashing Democrats.

You won't see a lot of party criticism among the Freepfest.

[Festivito]

64. It is! In that parallel universe, Alice in Wonderland, opposite sketch way.

!!11111!!SEIRES MI

[progressoid]

65. We don't make ridiculous nicknames from the opposing candidate's name.

Oh...wait...

[QC]

84. LOL! So true.

Sometimes it is very difficult to figure out what people are saying:

Oooo! Did you hear what Blipsy said to Scrootie Tootie?

[MiniMe]

67. The DU servers actually work

[Swamp Rat]

68. We are an ever expanding universe, spreading our light to the farthest reaches.

They are a black hole, pulling in all light and matter to be crushed into a singularity of permanent nothingness. :D

[tom_paine]

73. That the inner soul of the FreepTroglodyte, collapsing in upon itself?

Is it going to form a neutron star of ignorance, shortsightedness, and hate?

A ball of Freepy-ness so dense that no intelligent thought can escape.

As always, His Swampness, you have outdone yourself.

Kick back, have a beer :beer: and perhaps a puff of the ol' hoochie mama :smoke: , if that's your thing, for YET ANOTHER job well done.

[Swamp Rat]

78. LOL!

:toast: :smoke:

I have a ton of work to do, so I will be taking a break from DU... starting now. :D :hi:

Our long journey to a better America, and the hard work required of each of us, has only just begun. :patriot:

PS. Don't forget to salt the slugs who got past us this November. ;)





PSS. Buy stock in band aids and prosthetics; there will be a HUGH!1 increase in accidental shootings while cleaning firearms correlated with the increase in gun sales. :D



"You betcha!" :D

[Usrename]

69. We are part of the *reality based* community...

... they are not.






They seem to be part of the "faith based" community, where we seem to require evidence and stuff.

[stlsaxman]

70. Simply put- we are better than they are...

:shrug: - what?

[tom_paine]

74. Can't go that far. You think Obama would say or buy into an idea like that?

Just askin'...

:shrug:

[stlsaxman]

99. my reply was tongue in cheek- that, of course, being what FReepers think about us.

as true as it is when WE say it, i get your point-

but- what does Obama have to do with DU? we just elected the guy? (tongue firmly planted)

[tom_paine]

100. Wups. Sorry, my bad. Remembr that sarcasm tag for those of us who are dense.

I should have known you were joking.

Yeah, what DOES Obama have to do with DU?

:sarcasm:

[Patsy Stone]

72. Me!

(So I guess I'll reserve the balance of my words for future use.)

[tom_paine]

75. Ladies and Gentlemen of DU, I think we have a winner!

:rofl:

:hi: Patsy.

[Patsy Stone]

76. Muchas gracias, Senor

:blush:

Oh, look: I just posted in Spanish. Probably another difference. :)

[Random_Australian]

77. 1) Handedness. Many of the molecules that make up us are chiral, and have the same

chirality as the ones that make up the freepers. Since chirality is reversed in parity transform, it is impossible for us to be a mirror image of them.

(Warning: the above was a lame chemistry joke. Do not read it)

2) My real reasoning was that I have to defend my arguments with my own ideas, but you'd already said it.

So I added a joke that you'll never see in freepland.


(In case you were wondering, parity transform is the same a reflecting something in a mirror. Except it works in any number of dimensions)

[The Doctor.]

79. Another 'one word';

"Reality"

It's that simple.

Their beliefs are based on irrational fears, brainwashing, disinformation, and pre-packaged talking points.

My beliefs are based on diligence, facts, and balancing of ideals against their pragmatic application.


I know this, and have proven it as a fact to a number of people that were otherwise so brainwashed... and made money doing it.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/Dr_eldritch/45


These people believe that the weight of belief is enough to create reality, but can't understand that such a reality ends outside of their brainpan.

Most of us here take the world outside of our immediate and internal universe into account and compare and contrast them while performing constant diligence.

So, that's just one word... and a universe of difference between Freakerville and here.

[Vinnie From Indy]

81. FR is like eating vanilla ALL THE TIME!

Here at DU we have hundreds of flavors.

Or

We have Skinner, EarlG, Nance Greggs, KPete, Catwoman, Kephra, Andy, Will Pitt and a host of other decent, smart, thoughtful, kind and loving people.

FR has hundreds of angry white men.

[BleedingHeartRN]

86. Edited to add: That live in their mother's basements and don't ever get laid.

Ever.

[HughMoran]

82. 3 wrods

we can spell

[tom_paine]

85. HughMoran! Good ta' see ya!

How's things in ole Saint Loooeeeeyyyyyy?

:rofl:

[HughMoran]

88. Aaaalright, can't complain - I'm series!

:rofl:

[omega minimo]

87. We consider "1984" a warning, not a template

:think:

[Love Bug]

111. Thank you!

:bounce:

[QueenOfCalifornia]

89. I saw the post

you reference and I felt as you do.

I agree and wondered the same thing - I did not like being compared to the Freepers in such a nasty way. :hi:

[MadMaddie]

90. DU is unique because of the diversity of people, thoughts

passion and compassion.

I believe many of us come here because we don't expect everyone to agree with us, we expect to be challanged. We also expect that whomever we are challanging can explain his or her thoughts as to why an opinion is held.

Oh yea and people on DU respect the Constitution and the rule of law and want it applied to all Americans. What a concept!

[undergroundpanther]

92. People on FR believe in sick shit

Like Feudalism,the divine"right" of kings,Orders and classes Like a caste system,They believe gays are inferior based in this order and classes crap,and they justify that shit with a 2000 year old dusty scroll .The conservative core tenets are back wards and inhuman and fucking stupid and it makes people dangerous.

And..We direct or anger at bullies, mostly.Right wing belief system is all a justification for dominating minorities,women gays,trans-people whatever their leaders call the scapegoat dujour.Conservatives people that go pushing their fucking BELIEFS onto others for no other reason than that makes them feel in control.

Some people have an inner locus of control and can handle other people being different or being free.

Right wingers can't deal with anything they cannot understand or control they have an OUTER locus of control and they think by oppressing others or hogging resources,they can feel in control.
They got tunnel vision.

And That ain't OUR problem it is theirs.And I am more than happy to put those hierarchical little bullies in their places for them if their own fail to keep a lid on their own assholes.
They are limited and that's not OUR problem.

The right has no concept of what justice is and they are scared shit less by diversity, and they fear freedom,when it's someone they don't like who has it or somebody who isn't like them in belief(see above.)has freedom or is EQUAL to them

Republicans are scared by Equality, by others happiness and by anyone different, or smarter or stronger than they are.
Because the right is full of bully personality types.

[Name removed]

93. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tom_paine]

94. Closer, maybe, but not close...

I do apologize for DU for that treatment, which was uncalled for, though of course I am not affiliated with the site itself and can't speak for it in any way shape or form other than asone citizen to another.

But, if you have read that thread, you can see that is more the exception than the rule here.

I know you're pissed about that other thread, and you have every right to be, but consider that is NOT how DU is usually.

[earth mom]

96. Thanks for your post, I appreciate it!

:hi:

And yes I know there are some great people here on DU, but I was really ticked off earlier today because it's frustrating to see truth being flushed like that. :argh:

[apnu]

103. Don't forget on the same vein

There are a lot of people here venting heaps of unnecessary abuse on Obama. The door swings both ways here. There are just as many jerks for Obama as there are against it seems. Much of it is high drama hysteria from what I can tell.

Having said that, I have no problem with people highlighting faults on our side. Even Obama admits his own imperfections and appreciates it when they are shown to him. I think it is good to discuss this stuff. But to fall into name calling and other snarky nonsense instead of constructive criticism is just like Freeperville. So in that, the OP is sort of right. But I don't think, on the whole DU is just like Freeperville, I think folks here need to chill out a bit and get some perspective.

We (no matter what your particular political pet project is) will not get 100% of what we want out of an Obama administration. That will be impossible, even with a Democratic super majority in the House and Senate. Even if we had the most progressive candidate we could offer, and they won the Election, we still wouldn't get 100% of what we want. Disappointments are going to happen with the Obama administration. There's too much work to do fixing stuff that 4 years or 8 years is just not enough time to get it all done.

However I think the hysterical on DU are borrowing trouble before we have it and makes us all look like dolts.

[Skittles]

95. because OUR FEARS OF A BUSH PRESIDENCY CAME TRUE

their fears are for the most part just asinine

[Octafish]

102. DUers give a damn.

First, how we are alike: Good DUers, like good members of Free Republic, want what's best for the United States of America.

Then, how things seem is not necessarily so: Rather than one group being intellectually or morally or genetically superior to the other, I’d say the difference is in their approach to accomplishing the goal.

Finally, the diff: What makes a good DUer is putting the belief that all people are equal under the law; that we should use the power of government to make life better for ALL Americans; and that we should care about, and do, what’s best -- not just the priviledged, the well-off, and the connected crony -- but, rather, for each and every one. Doing that, we build a better country and help make a better world.

[tom_paine]

104. That first line is hard to swallow, but true.

It's the one thing we must never forget, and which Obama will likely spend the next four year reminding us as he did on Election Eve when he quoted Lincoln about "the strained bonds of friendship that must not be broken" between the Blues and the Grays/Reds.

Speaking of the Blue/Red Nonsense, how 'bout this little Obama gem from election night?

We are not just a collection of Red States and Blue States. We are and always will be the United States of America.

Glad you said that first line, Octafish. It might be hard to swallow, but it makes it doubly important that it be said.

[theboss]

106. We swear more for one

I don't think Skinner and company are getting rich off this site.

Um...the technology is better.

Little help?

[NoGOPZone]

107. DUers don't post every anonymous, uncited email that shows up in their Inbox. nt

[w8liftinglady]

109. we back up our claims with searchable facts.

Nothing piusses me off more about FR than the way"If I say it,it is so"passes.

[WilliamPitt]

110. I'll do it in two words.

We won.

;)

[Alter Ego]

112. I point you to the primaries.

FR could NEVER have sustained itself during the primaries if the fight had been as long and drawn-out as it was for us.