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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:33 PM
Original message
McCain won't vote for stimulus
WASHINGTON - President Barack Obama dispatched his top economic adviser and vice president Sunday to relentlessly press their sales pitch for an $825 billion stimulus package to halt the U.S. economic slide, as the plan came under more fire from Republican leaders.

Sen. John McCain, Obama's opponent in the November presidential contest, said he did not believe the stimulus package did enough to create jobs.

"There have to be major rewrites if we want to stimulate the economy... . As it stands now I can't vote for it," McCain said on Fox television.

He also continued a theme from his campaign, declaring that the former Bush administration tax cuts, that were particularly beneficial to high-earning Americans, should be made permanent. The measure expires next year and Obama has said he will not seek their renewal.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28840572/
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Earth_First Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
1. Simple solution: withhold the pay of any Congress person dragging their feet.
Ultimatum time.

You're either with us or against us. ...but your not getting paid to do nothing.
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. good for him
I do not support this "package" either. at least not in it`s current form.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. So you have the solution?
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #8
15. ther are other avenues
witch could be taken, do i personally have a "solution" , I could put something together but who would listen! this "stimulus" will do little to help the economy in the short and medium term and long term its success will be seen as marginal, by mid summer the failure of this stimulus will become apparent and the "experts" will be calling for another round of "immediate" stimulus probably around 500 billion more. the root cause of this problem is not being addressed and until it is things will continue to go from bad to worse.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #15
18. Have you read it? 647 pages is...
a lot for me to read. I found this summary which is a little easier but until I get around to reading the whole thing I would be interested in knowing your issues with the particulars.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x8093752

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY



Unprecedented Accountability: A historic level of transparency, oversight and accountability will help guarantee taxpayer dollars are spent wisely and Americans can see results for their investment.

· In many instances funds are distributed through existing formulas to programs with proven track records and accountability measures already in place.

· How funds are spent, all announcements of contract and grant competitions and awards, and formula grant allocations must be posted on a special website created by the President. Program managers will also be listed so the public knows who to hold accountable.

· Public notification of funding must include a description of the investment funded, the purpose, the total cost and why the activity should be funded with recovery dollars. Governors, mayors or others making funding decisions must personally certify that the investment has been fully vetted and is an appropriate use of taxpayer dollars. This will also be placed on the recovery website.

· A Recovery Act Accountability and Transparency Board will be created to review management of recovery dollars and provide early warning of problems. The seven member board includes Inspectors General and Deputy Cabinet secretaries.

· The Government Accountability Office and the Inspectors General are provided additional funding and access for special review of recovery funding.

· Federal and state whistleblowers who report fraud and abuse are protected.

· There are no earmarks in this package.



This plan targets investments to key areas that will create and preserve good jobs at the same time as it is strengthening the ability of this economy to become more efficient and produce more opportunities for employment.



Clean, Efficient, American Energy: To put people back to work today and reduce our dependence on foreign oil tomorrow, we will strengthen efforts directed at doubling renewable energy production and renovate public buildings to make them more energy efficient.

· $32 billion to transform the nation’s energy transmission, distribution, and production systems by allowing for a smarter and better grid and focusing investment in renewable technology.

· $16 billion to repair public housing and make key energy efficiency retrofits.

· $6 billion to weatherize modest-income homes.



Transform our Economy with Science and Technology: We need to put scientists to work looking for the next great discovery, creating jobs in cutting-edge-technologies, and making smart investments that will help businesses in every community succeed in a global economy. For every dollar invested in broadband the economy sees a ten-fold return on that investment.

· $10 billion for science facilities, research, and instrumentation.

· $6 billion to expand broadband internet access so businesses in rural and other underserved areas can link up to the global economy.



Modernize Roads, Bridges, Transit and Waterways: To build a 21st century economy, we must engage contractors across the nation to create jobs rebuilding our crumbling roads, and bridges, modernize public buildings, and put people to work cleaning our air, water and land.

· $30 billion for highway construction;

· $31 billion to modernize federal and other public infrastructure with investments that lead to long term energy cost savings;

· $19 billion for clean water, flood control, and environmental restoration investments;

· $10 billion for transit and rail to reduce traffic congestion and gas consumption.



Education for the 21st Century: To enable more children to learn in 21st century classrooms, labs, and libraries to help our kids compete with any worker in the world, this package provides:

· $41 billion to local school districts through Title I ($13 billion), IDEA ($13 billion), a new School Modernization and Repair Program ($14 billion), and the Education Technology program ($1 billion).

· $79 billion in state fiscal relief to prevent cutbacks to key services, including $39 billion to local school districts and public colleges and universities distributed through existing state and federal formulas, $15 billion to states as bonus grants as a reward for meeting key performance measures, and $25 billion to states for other high priority needs such as public safety and other critical services, which may include education.

· $15.6 billion to increase the Pell grant by $500.

· $6 billion for higher education modernization.



Tax Cuts to Make Work Pay and Create Jobs: We will provide direct tax relief to 95 percent of American workers, and spur investment and job growth for American Businesses.



Lower Healthcare Costs: To save not only jobs, but money and lives, we will update and computerize our healthcare system to cut red tape, prevent medical mistakes, and help reduce healthcare costs by billions of dollars each year.

· $20 billion for health information technology to prevent medical mistakes, provide better care to patients and introduce cost-saving efficiencies.

· $4.1 billion to provide for preventative care and to evaluate the most effective healthcare treatments.



Help Workers Hurt by the Economy: High unemployment and rising costs have outpaced Americans’ paychecks. We will help workers train and find jobs, and help struggling families make ends meet.

· $43 billion for increased unemployment benefits and job training.

· $39 billion to support those who lose their jobs by helping them to pay the cost of keeping their employer provided healthcare under COBRA and providing short-term options to be covered by Medicaid.

· $20 billion to increase the food stamp benefit by over 13% in order to help defray rising food costs.



Save Public Sector Jobs and Protect Vital Services: We will provide relief to states, so they can continue to employ teachers, firefighters and police officers and provide vital services without having to unnecessarily raise middle class taxes.

· $87 billion for a temporary increase in the Medicaid matching rate.

· $4 billion for state and local law enforcement funding.
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Riley18 Donating Member (883 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. Sounds like McCain will vote yes on the package IF he gets to keep tax cuts.
He should be tried for treason. I'm sick and tired of all of them.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:49 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I hope someone organizes...
a push-back campaign, complete with a better synopsis of what's all in those pages 647 pages.
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. I have it in pdf ( 258 pages )
and have been looking through it, the summery is just that, the devil is in the details of implementation. the ideas sound good as do the intentions. but the time to ramp up these programs is just too long, we dont have that kind of time. this problem could and should have been addressed sooner. there is no REAL ( short or medium term ) solution at this point as we have already passed the event horizon. the President has said things will get worse before they get better, I am afraid that will turn out to be the understatement of a generation.. thus far we have wasted trillions of dollars and many unproductive months on a problem witch seems to be poorly understood by the vast majority of our elected officials. they were warned ( by me and many others ) that the TARP funds would not be used as requested, 99 percent of Americans initially opposed the TARP program ( I wathed the house hearings and heard congressman state opposition calls to the bill were running 300 to 1 against! one even stated he had received ZERO calls in support! out of thousands! ) , then when it failed in the house the media chimed in with their fear campaign ( right on Que ) about how we would not get our paychecks unless the bill passed thus the end run around the HOUSE as the senate pinned the bill as an attachment to an existing bill wich had already passed in the house. until the REAL problem is dealt with the recovery cannot begin in earnest if at all. we could have handled this differently and begun the recovery but it would have been painful though no less so than it will be, in fact there is strong evidence to suggest that stalling will make things worse in the long run. I pray our President will find the wisdom to do what is best for our country in the long run even though the short term sacrifices may, per force be extreme..
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. that's not true..
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 03:27 PM by stillcool
any of it. The idea that it will take too long is a 'talking point'. Our states have projects ready to go, that have been needed for decades. While Republican's might not be too keen on lavishing their tax cuts for the rich on projects that provide the American people an avenue to provide for themselves, that's too fucking bad. And it is indeed a 647 page report


The 647-page House stimulus package scored the coveted designation of H.R. 1, which the Speaker reserves for her highest legislative or symbolic priority. The bill is a combination of legislation that moved this week through the Ways and Means, Energy and Commerce and Appropriations Committees. It is scheduled to be introduced Monday.

Below is a copy, obtained by the Huffington Post (we've uploaded the pdf here) and posted on the House Rules Committee website.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/01/24/house-stimulus-bill-full_n_160569.html
Here is the pdf:
http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/HR1.pdf
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. thanks for the PDF
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 03:41 PM by marketcrazy1
I have an earlier version ( apparently ) ( and it is indeed 258 pages long ) and how do YOU define "ready to go"?, so called "shovel ready" projects will take three to six months or more to ramp up to full employment levels AFTER THE CHECK IS WRITTEN! ( another few months to decide WITCH ready to go projects get the green light ) what part of " any of it " are you referring to.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #31
33. I was referring to your assertion.,..
that any relief provided in the package was not timely enough and that it was not a 647 page bill. To make such a blanket statement without fully understanding all that is included is not a responsible statement to make. I just saw the other night someone on the transportation committee explain how there are projects ready to go right now. And how employing one of these projects in one state, would provide jobs for people in many states. The idea that it will 'take too long', is ridiculous, no? Would you rather have a job in 6 months or 6 years? Providing permanent tax cuts, is doing the same thing, for the same people, and getting the same results. Perhaps the best thing to do would be to do nothing, and accelerate the pace of our crumbling society to the detriment of all.
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. well as i posted
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 04:50 PM by marketcrazy1
I have an earlier version of the bill ( before the "1" designation ) and THAT version is 258 pages long,I also have the summery, analysis and recommendations reports, it will be interesting to compare the two versions. as for wether or not the package is timely enough, well IMO it is not. however I will support a job creation program, as you said i would rather we at least start this process even if it does take six months to a year ( and it will ) that being said, I do not believe this bill will save our economy or even help it in the short to medium term ( 8 to 18 months ) not as it is laid out. it WILL take too long, job creation will not come close to offsetting job losses for at least a year or more ( from the date of implementation ), we are told that 3 to 4 million jobs will be saved or created by 2011??. there are over 4 million unemployed now and another 2.5 to 3+ million will lose their jobs this year, now conservatively assuming only 1 million jobs vanish in 2010 and half a million in 2011 ( being very optimistic here ) where then will we be in 2011 - right where we are now! maybe even a little worse. and that is just the employment angle, what about costs? can we the taxpayers afford to spend trillions more over the next two to three years to keep things as they are NOW??!!! this approach needs to be reexamined. IMO.. ( and i am not saying we should do nothing, just that we should be taking a closer look at reality and the cause of the problem and not pin all our hopes on this, it is being rushed out of urgency and that is not good )
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. I'm amazed that you find nothing..
of worth in this stimulus package. I think we may have different realities.
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. I did not say
there was nothing of worth in this bill. what i AM saying is that as it stands RIGHT NOW ( it will change for better or worse before it is passed ) it will not provide the kind of stimulus we are being promised or expect..........
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #15
38. "witch"? I wouldn't take your plan seriously even if you published it here
due to your woeful ignorance of the simplest garmmar and spelling. I'm no grammar nazi by any means--but kack of education is very telling.

:wow:
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marketcrazy1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. HA! HA!
Edited on Mon Jan-26-09 11:09 AM by marketcrazy1
yu relly hert mi fealings!!! LOL!!! PS - kack? - typo alert!!
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:45 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. McCain wants MORE concessions to Republicans
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. The republican solution to all problems
Tax cuts for the wealthy.

Tax cuts that provide no value for 1 year minimum.
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DJ13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:37 PM
Response to Original message
2. I hope Obama starts to understand that theres no negotiating with the GOP

You can hold a fancy dinner in his honor, but turn your back and you'll end up with a knife in you.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #2
29. I agree - those people are extremely dangerous when out of power.. nt
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. 'Country first' eh John?
:silly: Make those tax cuts for you and your ilk, permanent? Plenty of greed to go around, still. x(
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Fleshdancer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Does McCain remember HOW to vote?
When was the last time he voted for anything in the Senate? 2006?

Hmmm...this vote will be on the economy too. Perhaps he'll suspend his Senate duties for the week to really figure things out. :eyes:
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
39. Exactly--even concerned AZ Repubs hate him for avoiding votes on controversail issues. nt
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louis-t Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
6. Did he threaten to suspend his campaign?
Back to being a maverick?
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. The Repukes have learned nothing during the past 8 years.
Guess I'm really not surprised, but it's stunning that the Republicans are stupid enough to believe that digging the same hole to nowhere is a good idea politically.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
10. Time to slap down Old Johnny POW.
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stray cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
11. I unbelievably agree with McCain - I think it should be more focused on job creation
Edited on Sun Jan-25-09 01:50 PM by stray cat
tax breaks to low income individuals who will spend rather than save the money and I agree with the money in it for education. I'm not crazy about most of the tax breaks although I would love the extra $500 to pay off bills.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. Tax cuts provide no infusion to the economy for 1 year
There needs to be infusion of incentives directly that will make an impact immediately.
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. I might agree with him too
Presumably the House bill is loaded with pork, or at least increased social spending which has little to do with stimulus. But I have not read the bill.

Republicans are hitting the "more tax cuts, less pork" theme but also the other Arizona Senator did not like it that low income individuals got tax cuts. Apparently only the rich should get tax cuts.

It's quite possible that Republicans are full of crap on this charge of 'pork' and neither of us should fall for it.
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Thrill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #11
19. He wants more tax cuts for Big businesses. Still going by Bush Economics
You agree with that?
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #11
26. McCain's plan is to give more tax cuts to the wealthy and let it trickle down
It worked so well last time didn't it?

And you agree with that?

Don
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dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. not surprised but
did he offer any alternatives? What WILL create more jobs, John? Come on, Mr. Maverick - put on your thinking cap!
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:01 PM
Response to Original message
16. If he doesn't agree with it - why should he?
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ErinBerin84 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-26-09 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #16
37. he shouldn't
But that doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize people for votes that some here disagree with, does it? Plus, I find McCain's "no proposals/concessions to Republicans in the plan" part of the quote disingenuous. And the "as far as I know" makes me think he hasn't even read it yet.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
20. damn, last time he 'suspended' his campaign....i guess when a thug president calls, he jumps
partisan partisan
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
24. Eh, go to hell, you washed up old loser.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
25. Hopefully Napolitano runs against him in 2010.
McSame is a jerkwad.
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Blasphemer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
27. Republican political dancing...
From a GOP point of view, it could be far worse but by putting McCain out there against it, they hope to get enough leverage to prevent changes that would tilt it further away from them and include more federal spending.
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:26 PM
Response to Original message
30. ONCE again, McClown, that theory has been proven INCORRECT. Much like EVERY Republican action.
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blue_onyx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-25-09 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. The GOP and McCain won't vote for any stimulus package
They probably won't block it because they don't want to be seen as obstructionists. There, however, is no real political reason to vote for Obama's plan. If they do and it is a success, Obama and the Democrats will get the credit, not the GOP. If it fails, then they have something to run on since they opposed the failed stimulus package. It may be in the best interest of the country to vote for the stimulus package but I don't think the GOP will care.
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