David Ortiz aka Big Papi suggests year-long ban for steroid abuse

[Initech]

FORT MYERS, Fla. -- Red Sox slugger David Ortiz -- concerned by the use of performance-enhancing drugs in baseball -- is willing to see drastic measures taken to protect the game he loves so much.

In fact, Ortiz said that he'd be in favor of any player who tests positive for a banned substance getting suspended for the entire season. Baseball's current testing program suspends a player for 50 games on the first offense and 100 games for a second positive.

And instead of random drug testing, Ortiz thinks that every single player on every team should get tested all at once.

"I would suggest that everybody get tested, and not randomly," Ortiz said. "You go team by team and you test everybody, three, four times a year, and that's about it. You do what you've got to do ... ban them for the whole year . You're going to get respect from the players when they know they're going to get tested. Let's test the whole team, three or four times a year. I know they can do that. Believe me, if someone was using steroids, it would show up. Because the way they test you, it's not a joke."


http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20090216&content_id=3836242&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

I actually agree with Papi on this. The punishments now aren't strict enough.

[ZombieHorde]

1. "Let's test the whole team, three or four times a year."

Lame invasion of privacy. Its not like these people are driving school buses loaded with kids.

[Initech]

7. They're making hundreds of millions and constantly in the spotlight.

Explain the invasion of privacy thing again?

[Dreamer Tatum]

10. HIPAA applies to us all

From the poorest to the richest.

[ZombieHorde]

11. "Explain the invasion of privacy thing"

Drug testing is an invasion of privacy. People should have the right to take drugs, such as steroids, in the privacy of their own homes.

[Initech]

14. I agree with that.

But the thing is - where do you draw the line between prescription drugs, recreational drugs and performance enhancers? I honestly think that performance enhancers are ruining professional sports in general, not just limited to baseball. Its like who can afford the best drugs wins.

[ZombieHorde]

15. "Its like who can afford the best drugs wins."

I don't know much about baseball, but my friends tell me there is no pay limit, so the team with the most money gets the best players.

I honestly think that performance enhancers are ruining professional sports in general

How is it ruined? How does someone taking steroids diminish the entertainment value of the game? You just watch the games for a bit of fun, right?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

18. You state that "you don't know much about baseball"

Which is obvious from your comments. I think the biggest problem fans have with steroids is records. Henry Aaron broke Babe Ruth's home run record of 714 not using steroids, without a corked bat, playing in parks which were much bigger than the corporate home run hitting venues we have now. Steroids give an unfair advantage to players. Henry Aaron deserves that record not Barry Bonds. Roger Maris deserves the single season home run record of 61 not Mark McGuire who was obviously on the juice. I think the steroid era is about the history of the game as much as it's about cheating which it most definitely is.

[ZombieHorde]

26. "Steroids give an unfair advantage to players."

As opposed to how some of us are born? Some people are born with an unfair advantage in the realm of baseball.

I think the biggest problem fans have with steroids is records.

Are the fan's entertainment value more important than the player's privacy? Why do you attach so much value to game records? Seems like a bizarre priority to me.

[Missy Vixen]

36. There are also undesirable side effects to steroids

which would make a juicer unpalatable to any team's front office. If they're going to use, let the team know up-front, and if they choose to deal with 'roid rage and dead family members, so be it.

Just sayin'.

[ZombieHorde]

38. "undesirable side effects"

As there is with eating certain foods, drinking alcohol, and living a lazy lifestyle. If a player gets out of line, document the behavior and fire them.

[Missy Vixen]

42. Oh, sure

>If a player gets out of line, document the behavior and fire them.

Perhaps you should tell that to the family of the WWF guy who killed himself and his entire family a couple of years back.

When someone who's bigger than the average population has a little 'roid rage episode, other people get hurt or killed. Then again, I'm sure that's okay. After all, we're not violating their privacy or anything. :sarcasm:

[ZombieHorde]

47. "Perhaps you should tell that to the family of the WWF guy who killed himself...his entire family "

What a bizarre request. If everyone in his family is dead, how can I tell them?

Besides, people sometimes freak out under the influence of alcohol, yet I still like the legal status of that drug.

[flvegan]

51. Benoit? You're shitting me, right?

Did you read his toxicology report? No, you didn't did you, hence your errant post.

on edit: removed "ignorant post"

[Missy Vixen]

56. I read the initial reports in the press. They reported steroid use.

Thanks for calling me "ignorant". I appreciate it.

[flvegan]

58. I didn't call you ignorant.

The post was ignorant. I wouldn't call you ignorant. Here's the problem, first thing the media did was jump on "roid rage" and run it into the ground. Benoit had abused steroids in the past (allegedly). He was on a mild dose of testosterone to fix his fucked up system because of it, that's true. Xanax was likely more to blame. The medical examiner said it wasn't steroids. The MSM couldn't find much headline in that, so they never really reported on it.

Regardless, the Benoit issue was a senseless tragedy, and folks should be looking at anti-depressants more than they should be chasing steroid ghosts.

I apologize if you thought I was calling YOU ignorant, rather than the post.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

64. Your ignorance on the importance of records in baseball

outs you as someone who "doesn't know a lot about baseball" in your words. Maybe you should stop now.

[ZombieHorde]

67. Please tell me all about the importance of records in baseball.

If all these records disappeared tonight, what would happen?

I am guessing that nothing much would happen at all.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

68. It is important to baseball fans

Not being a baseball fan yourself I don't expect you to understand. Players like Henry Aaron and Roger Maris never took steroids, didn't play with a corked bat etc. Why should their records which were gained without enhancement be broken by players that used performance enhancing drugs and corked bats? It's about everyone playing on a level playing field. I am with you on the "war on drugs", it has been a total failure and personally I am not against the legalization of some drugs. But in the case of baseball it isn't about that at all. If someone was running in a race would it be fair if one of the runners had a 10 yard head start. Would you say "oh well you can't invade the runners privacy just because he decided to line up 10 yards ahead of the other runners"? This is what the steroid era is all about. I understand where you are coming from, but the "war on drugs" and the steroid era are two completely different things.

[Initech]

25. Here's why:

The reason I think steroids ruins the game is because it just takes all the competition out of it and makes the whole thing seem kind of phony, like it has a fixed feeling to it.

[ZombieHorde]

28. If members of both teams are using steroids, then everything seems fair.

Isn't privacy more important than a game anyway?

[Renew Deal]

30. What if the drugs affect their work perfomance?

Shouldn't the employer have knowledge? Especially in this case where someone is doing something illegal to manipulate the sport.

[ZombieHorde]

34. "doing something illegal"

I don't think drugs should be illegal.

What if the drugs affect their work perfomance?

If an employee is doing a bad job, the employer may need to let the person go, just like every other job.

[Renew Deal]

50. What does your opinion of whether they should be legal have to do with it?

Part of doing the job is agreeing to not take drugs.

[ZombieHorde]

52. Companies should not have that power over their employees.

The Olive Garden should not be allowed to tell their employees they can't drink in the privacy of their own home.

[Renew Deal]

53. OK

:shrug:

[gmudem]

32. Unless those drugs go against your employers rules.

This is not a privacy issue, if the company you work for doesn't allow you to take certain drugs, then you should expect punishment if you get caught taking those drugs.

[ZombieHorde]

35. Companies should not have the right to tell me what to do in my home.

Corporations should not have that power.

[gmudem]

40. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of this issue.

The players salaries come from the fans. If there were no fans, they would not be so rich. Fans expect the players not to cheat, and this is NOT a privacy issue. You're talking about steroids as if they are some kind of recreational drug, they are not. If baseball players smoke weed I don't care, but I do care about steroids because it gives them an unfair advantage over other clean players.

Try to think of it like insider trading, all stockholders should have the same knowledge there shouldn't be a few stockholders that know a few secrets and can make more money because they know them. It's not the best analogy but I think it gets the point across.

And stop trying to make this a privacy issue, you can't argue the constitution in baseball hahaha

[ZombieHorde]

45. My arguement has nothing to do with "the constitution in baseball hahaha".

You're talking about steroids as if they are some kind of recreational drug, they are not.

The motivation for the drug use is irrelevant. People should have the right to take drugs.

The players salaries come from the fans. If there were no fans, they would not be so rich. Fans expect the players not to cheat,

Professional wrestling has a reputation for steroid use, and they have a very large fan base.

and this is NOT a privacy issue.

Of course it is. Just because someone plays a game does not mean anyone should have the right to know what drugs they take.

[gmudem]

61. Well I can tell you're not much of a sports fan.

And professional wrestling is not even slightly slimiar to major league baseball. There's no point to continue the argument since you obviously don't care about legitimate competition in sports.

[Renew Deal]

29. It's not an invasion of privacy when it's a job requirement that you agree to.

And it's about time.

[ZombieHorde]

39. Those two things are not exclusive. Why do you support drug testing these people?

Its just a game.

[Renew Deal]

49. Because the rules say they can't take performance enhancing drugs

And how do you find out if someone is doing that?

[ZombieHorde]

54. Why should corporations be able to tell their employees what they can and can not do in their home?

[Renew Deal]

55. Because they are invested in that person.

And I don't see anything wrong with asking your employees to not break the law. Besides work performance issues, it looks bad for your company when one of your people is arrested. Just look at that Fox guy that was arrested for kiddie porn. That's some serious bad press for Fox.

[ZombieHorde]

57. "to not break the law"

I am strongly against the war on drugs as well.

Besides work performance issues

I thought steroids actually improved performance.

Just look at that Fox guy that was arrested for kiddie porn.

Comparing drug use to kiddie porn is a bit much.

[Renew Deal]

59. It doesn't matter if you're for it or against it.

What matters is the current law, rules, etc.

Artificially increasing performance in baseball is against the rules.

Comparing kiddie porn to illegal drugs is reasonable in this case. It doesn't really matter what crimes you list. In both cases the person is breaking the law. And in both cases it makes the company look bad. You know what makes your argument ridiculous? Extend it out to other crimes. Do you believe that someone that rapes someone outside of work "has nothing to do with work?" Someone that beats their kids "is private and shouldn't affect work?" That's where your argument falls apart.

[ZombieHorde]

60. "What matters is the current law, rules, etc."

So, if steroids were legal, you would be cool with it?

Artificially increasing performance in baseball is against the rules.

Yes, I understand. I am arguing against this rule.

[SidDithers]

41. Not if it's collectively bargained...nt

Sid

[NNN0LHI]

2. I have a better idea

How about we boycott this new version of Professional Wrestling?

Doesn't that more sense?

Its come down to who can afford the best drugs wins.

Doesn't sound like much of a sport any more.

I don't plan on watching any more baseball.

Don

[FSogol]

3. And Selig should resign. He ignored steroids because he liked revenue derived

from an increase in home runs. Baseball will never be clean until Selig is gone.

[Initech]

8. Yeah absolutely.

Selig is a worthless piece of crap. He's like the GOP - running with his tail between his legs when a serious problem comes up, then tries to get a quick fix for it when its too late to do anything about it.

[NOW tense]

4. David Ortiz is a really good guy.

I know someone who has had more then one conversation with him.

[flvegan]

5. If it's about performance enhancers, why not ban the use of every single one.

Why just steroids and their ilk? If it's about the "purity" of the game, it seems hypocritical to go any other route.

[Veritas_et_Aequitas]

6. Oh, Papi. You remain my favorite despite your slumping numbers.

But I really think he has it wrong. Let's make steroid use mandatory at the pro level and see how that works out.

I'm only half joking.

[burythehatchet]

9. He showed up to spring training much lighter and ahead of his previous

conditioning schedule.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

17. Yeah he looks really great

Hopefully he can bounce back from the injury and have a great year.

[Captain Hilts]

20. I hope it doesn't affect his swing. nt

[ZombieHorde]

12. "The punishments now aren't strict enough."

Why should there be more punishments for drug use?

[Bonn1997]

13. Hmmm. Is this like Larry Craig Denouncing Homosexuality?

[Captain Hilts]

21. Look at him. Now look at A-Roid. Bonds. Canseco. McGwire.

One of these things is not like the others...

[Bonn1997]

23. They all have lots of muscle. Ortiz has lots of fat too. What's your point?

The fat is irrelevant to steroid use.

[Captain Hilts]

24. He has neither the body nor temperament of a Roid user.

Could he have used them at some time? Sure. But he doesn't have the characteristics of a user the way many others do.

[Bonn1997]

63. Does Andy Pettitte have the body or temperament of a user?

We can't tell any of this as fans.

[gmudem]

37. Ortiz is just as big if not bigger than any of those guys.

He is definitely bigger than A-Rod.

http://www.baseball-reference.com/o/ortizda01.shtml

Look at these stats and tell me Ortiz has never done roids.

[Captain Hilts]

48. So was Jackie Gleason. It's not about size, it's about shape. nt

[gmudem]

62. Ok then.

Sure, no steroids there.

Not to mention he never hit more than 20 home runs with the Twins, and turned into a regular MVP candidate with the Sox. But I'm sure that's just normal.

[spiritual_gunfighter]

16. I agree with this as well

But I always assumed Papi was on the juice.

[ZombieHorde]

27. Do you agree because of your love for game records?

[spiritual_gunfighter]

65. see my comment above

I dont quite understand why someone who claims not to know much about a subject continues to opine on said subject.

[ZombieHorde]

66. "I dont quite understand why someone who claims not to know much about a subject"

This subject is actually several subjects.

A game, the war on drugs, and corporation's power over employees.

I admit I know little of baseball. I have played the game in P.E. in school years ago, but I don't play it anymore or watch it on TV.

The war on drugs and corporate power is something I pay attention to from time to time.

From my point of view, the New York Yankees is pretty much the same as Sears, which is pretty much the same Target, which is pretty much the same as the San Francisco Giants. They are all corporations with employees.

[Captain Hilts]

19. I also agree with him. He doesn't have that 'Roid look, does he?

[flvegan]

46. 'Roid look?

Tell me what the "roid look" is exactly.

[Uzybone]

22. OK Gary Hart

be careful what you ask for.

[gmudem]

31. That's funny coming from him.

I'd be willing to be large amounts of money that Ortiz has done roids. If you don't believe me, just look up his stats when he was on the Twins and his stats when he went to Boston. He went from a mediocre player to a superstar 5 years into his career in the middle of the steroid era. Yeah, I guess he'll be getting suspended too.

[Canuckistanian]

33. I still think sports should be divided into two categories, like car racing

"Stock" and "Modified".

If you're in in the "Stock" league, everyone gets tested before every game.

If you're "Modified", you're free to do as you wish. Hey, it might even make some bucks for promoters.

But in the end, the serious athletes will choose the "Stock" option.

[burythehatchet]

43. That all sounds fine but we know that the players are only one set of perps here

but they are bearing the brunt of the punishment. I would really like to know the role that management had. How could the GM and coach of the Texas Rangers not have known, for example?

[1]

44. fuck it. baseball is so dirty at this point is is beyond repair. let them all do what they do...

wwf style.

because nobody will believe anything these fuckers say anyway. (and that's the players and the league management.)

that whole concept that baseball is a game that has always been played by the same rules over time is bullshit anyway.

you can't compare the 1900's humps that played under unbearable conditions to the modern athlete with all of their their conveniences. so why even try. let the modern athlete indulge in any enhancing substances that are currently available and hit 100 hrs a season.

what does it matter anymore? we know its all bullshit.

why pretend?