Blue Dogs, the DLC, and other "centrists" want to gut social security! (and Medicare!)

[FLAprogressive]

"Next up on Obama's plate is a February 23 "fiscal responsibility summit," which will be led by Jim Cooper, Judd Gregg, Kent Conrad and other "entitlement reform" fetishists. On February 24, he's due to give a "state of the union" style speech before Congress, and according to James Capretta today, he'll deliver a budget two days later.

*snip*

As we reported the other day, Orszag is co-author of the Diamond-Orszag plan for reforming Social Security, which calls for raising the retirement age and cutting benefits -- which the White House has been presenting as the foundation of their plan.

And the Wall Street Journal is reporting that "entitlement reformers" have been given the go-ahead on their dream to short-circuit Congressional approval"

READ MORE: http://firedoglake.com/2009/02/17/social-security-medicare-reform-to-get-an-up-or-down-vote/

-------

Not all Democrats are good Democrats...remember this.

[aquart]

1. Gut them first.

[FLAprogressive]

6. ask any of the Blue Dog / DLC shills and they'll drivel on about the "big tent"

So we want to open our party to people who want to undo the New Deal?!

[Bjorn Against]

45. A "big tent" that includes Republicans but leaves progressives out in the cold.

[FLAprogressive]

59. they use us to get votes and then ignore us. and yet we play along hoping they'll change

[Sebastian Doyle]

47. In the January 1995 issue of the DLC's "Blueprint" Magazine

DLC founders Al From and Will Marshall rejoiced over the LOSS of Congress in the 94 election, because it would allow them to "liberate" the Democratic party from the New Deal and the legacy of FDR.

That's been their goal all along, the sick bastards.

[FLAprogressive]

50. BINGO. The DLC is full of sadistic people who WANT the Democratic party to lose so they can

cooperate with Republicans, screw over the nation and not take any blame for it.

[GreenTea]

70. DLC = Rahm Emanuel! And why we'll never see the excellent Howard Dean in a posititon

Dean would be excellent for, fighting for the people as head of Health & Human Services.

Fuck the DLC!

[EraOfResponsibility]

2. This scares me. I just signed up for Medicare n/m

[Cleita]

13. You should be scared. Up until now, it's the only reliable retirement

income I've had and Medicare the only reliable health plan I've had. When DH and I retired, we had savings and other retirement investments but SS was the one that lasted. The ups and downs of the economy and eight years of Bush have made the rest inconsequential.

[Cleita]

17. If this happens, you will see a revolution of old people storming Washington

with pitchforks and torches and if Obama is part of this, he will find himself a one term President.

[bbgrunt]

69. I'm sure if they were to try to privatize or reduce benefits

they would prevent protests by grandfathering in those who already receive it, and those still looking to the future have already had their expectations about receiving anything pretty well dashed. The DLC is the judas that would love to push something like this through with everyone keeping their mouths closed so as not to interfere with Obama's agenda. (Just the way Clinton managed to get nafta through)

[wyldwolf]

3. Obama's position on this is pretty close to the DLCs... and by the way..

.. they DON'T want to gut SS.

[me b zola]

57. Nah, they just want to privatize it

...the same plan as the republicans:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=253993&kaid=86&subid=194

Scroll down to the "American Dream Accounts". After another DUer began posting about this the dlc changed the language, but it was at one time the exact same language as the republican plan to privatize SS.

[wyldwolf]

58. nope... and lol! The DLC didn't change the language because of a DUer. LOL!

"American Dream Accounts" are separate accounts not associated with SS.

sorry to disappoint.

[me b zola]

67. But you do disappoint

Regardless of why they changed the website, the language of the American Dream Accounts was the same as the republican language until one of our posters began to expose them and their intentions. Now it could be a coincidence, or it could be that their agenda was exposed, but regardless, they changed their language.

The dlc has been very explicit in their determination to privatize SS. After this self-defeating web-page was discovered, I ran a DU poll to see who would support the privatization of SS. And surprise! A big DC insider and DLCer like yourself had the temerity to defend it. Yeah, the rest of us poor slobs are counting on Congress to work for us, not Wall street.

[wyldwolf]

71. that's complete BS, there is no proof, on wishful thinking and a misguided sense of DU-importance

It's quite possibly the most hysterically absurd thing I've ever seen in the netroots.

Show me a link.

Show me anything.

you have nothing to prove your two contentions. :rofl:

Here's mine:

Obama's Plan"Former Clinton economic advisor Gene Sperling has suggested the creation of a Universal 401(K), in which the government would match contributions made into a new retirement account by low and moderate-low income famlies. Other experts have suggested the simple (and cost free) step of having employees automatically enroll their employees in their 401(k) plans at the maximum allowable level; people could still choose to contribute less than the maximum or not participate at all, but evidece shows that by changing the default rule, employee participation rates go up dramatically. As a complement to Social Security, we should take the best and most affordable of these ideas and begin moving toward a beefed-up, universally available pension system that not only promotes savings but gives all Americans a bigger stake in the fruits of globalization." The Audacity of Hope P. 183

Interesting ideas - sounds just like the one the (snicker) DUer forced the DLC to change! :rofl:

[Political Heretic]

4. I don't even think most democrats are good democrats.

They are the minority.

[Warpy]

5. This is why we need to target them in primaries.

Yes, they're mostly from such ridiculously conservative states that they'll be replaced by other Blue Dogs, but if we change them frequently, they won't be able to build up the kind of power that goes with seniority.

[FLAprogressive]

9. Blue Dogs / DLCers are like diapers. -- you (probably) need them but they need to be changed

frequently lest they become too full of shit and smelly.

[LakeSamish706]

7. "Not all Democrats are good Democrats...remember this" I think we have...

witnessed this over the last 8 years in particular....

[Robbien]

8. Blue Dogs said they wouldn't vote for the stimulus unless they got to kill Social Security

Blue Dogs are just corporatists who don't give a fig for left or right issues. They just want the money. . . and power.

[FLAprogressive]

11. oh they care about issues alright. right-leaning issues especially.

[leftchick]

26. blue dog in chief is Obama's right hand man

Rahm Emanuel. :puke:

[FrenchieCat]

10. We need to be rational....

There are issues with the way the entitlement programs were "tinkered" with by Bush.

Read about it here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206100&mesg_id=8206100

[FLAprogressive]

12. you really think the Blue Dogs have OUR best interests in mind?

The Blue Dogs exist to serve corporations...not the people.

[slipslidingaway]

23. Also we need to listen to what Obama said...

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/obama-targets-entitlements-social-securitymedicare-reduce-12-trillion-budget-deficit

"Changes in Social Security and Medicare will be central to efforts to bring federal spending in line, President-elect Barack Obama said Wednesday, as the Congressional Budget Office projected a $1.2 trillion budget deficit for the fiscal year.

“We expect that discussion around entitlements will be a part, a central part” of efforts to curb federal spending, Mr. Obama said at a news conference. By February, he said, “we will have more to say about how we’re going to approach entitlement spending."

[FrenchieCat]

40. You've been trying hard for a long time

to paint Obama in the worse light.

You will be proven wrong, and so I will make sure to bookmark your post,
and I will hold you accountable for your disinformation campaign against our President.

Your inuendos and attempts to confuse will only work against Barack Obama with the
ill informed who pose on this site as though they know stuff, when they are nothing but reactionnaries.

I am informed, and I will not forget you and what you are currently doing.

[slipslidingaway]

44. WTF... quoting Obama is trying to paint him in the worst light???

[DURHAM D]

14. I don't understand your subject line - you should include Obama in it.

The article indicates his agreement with all the villains you listed. And, he campaigned on, reforming SS as he repeatedly used false rightwing talking points. There should be no surprises about Obama's choices going forward - he told you what he wants to do. I think a lot of people who were not paying close attention are going to be unpleasantly surprised.

[wyldwolf]

18. the OP (and everyone else but you and me) are ignoring that fact

[DURHAM D]

21. Yep - amazing ain't it. n/t

[stillcool]

15. they need to gut the health-'care' industry..

[FLAprogressive]

16. not while the Blue Dogs and their corporate Republican friends are running the show

[slipslidingaway]

19. Obama in January on entitlement spending...

http://www.economicpopulist.org/?q=content/obama-targets-entitlements-social-securitymedicare-reduce-12-trillion-budget-deficit

"Changes in Social Security and Medicare will be central to efforts to bring federal spending in line, President-elect Barack Obama said Wednesday, as the Congressional Budget Office projected a $1.2 trillion budget deficit for the fiscal year.

“We expect that discussion around entitlements will be a part, a central part” of efforts to curb federal spending, Mr. Obama said at a news conference. By February, he said, “we will have more to say about how we’re going to approach entitlement spending."

[DURHAM D]

28. I hope they do a buy-out.

I am close to retirement. I have paid in for about a thousand years for the "greatest generation" - ya know, the folks who didn't pay in much but have extracted an extraordinary amount of dollars. I refer to that generation's middle class entitlements as the longest "thank you note" in the history of the world. WWII generation - Good! and next generation - Bad! You know, we lost that pesky little war in Vietnam so therefore we have always been shamed. Now, when it is time to get back some of what we put there they will slam the door. Early Boomers and pre-Boomers are Bad - must punish.

Really, I hope they just offer me a lump sum payout of the amount I have paid in. We get an annual report from SS telling us the exact amount - to the penny. I would like to have some interest on it but really, I don't care, just give me the money. I really don't want to march on Washington again - I have done my share of that for gays, choice and women. Just give me the money.

[slipslidingaway]

43. At this point I'll take a buy-out of SS as well, although I am

expecting more of a slow bleed as far as reform with SS. Once we have spent a couple trillion dollars, entitlements will need to be reformed.

Medicare is another matter, I'll just take the HC or even better HR 676.

[terisan]

20. Major Sellout by Obama? Do we have a Sneak-in-Chief? Is this article accurate?

Obama and Obama's bankers( the ones he keeps giviing bailouts to) seem to not want to pay Social Security back;

May be impeachment time if thus article is accurate. Stealing from the people to pay the multinational bankers is sleazy.

[slipslidingaway]

22. Agree with Durham, Obama should be included in the subject line. nt

[FrenchieCat]

24. That is not what is going to happen.....

OBama will not be raising the retirement age or cutting benefits.

MARK MY WORDS!

He will revisit Medicare Plan "D", which he should.....
Here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=8206100&mesg_id=8206100


And he will increase the payroll tax cap to shore up SS, as he had already mentioned during the campaign.

This false frightning of folks in advance is not appreciated.

and this constant speculation for the worse is being done to drive down Obama's poll numbers.


here.... He said today in Columbus, Ohio, that he wants to lift the income cap on Social Security taxes for folks making $250,000 a year or more. Here is a bit from his prepared speech:

Right now, the Social Security payroll tax is capped. That means most middle-class families pay this tax on every dime they make, while millionaires and billionaires are only paying it on a very small percentage of their income. That's why I think the best way forward is to adjust the cap on the payroll tax so that people like me pay a little bit more and people in need are protected. That way we can extend the promise of Social Security without shifting the burden onto seniors. And we should exempt anyone making under $250,000 from this increase so that the change doesn't burden middle-class Americans. This means that 97 percent of Americans will see absolutely no change in their taxes under my plan—97 percent.
http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commerce/2008/06/13/obama-plans-a-massive-hike-in-social-security-taxes.html

[Justitia]

31. Amen, friend. Thanks for the dose of sanity. Anyone who thinks Pres. Obama will "gut" these

programs has lost their minds.

I think some writers are hard at work w/some clever "turns of phrase" to induce panic & criticism.

I have fully expected "changes" to these programs from our new President - those changes being a review of Medicare HMOs, Medicare Part D and raising the Soc Sec cap.

These are GOOD things.

Don't fall for it folks.

[FrenchieCat]

32. There is an all out assault on believing the worse when speculating

as to what President Obama will do in many areas as of recent.

He will prove all of these "the Sky is Falling" con-folks wrong....
Cause those who still act as though they don't know who Barack Obama is and where he comes from
just don't have a fucking clue!

[Thickasabrick]

52. Thanks FrenchieCat for your calming efforts.....by the way...beautiful

baby girl to Harvard 09....you must be so proud of her! You must have been an awesome mom!

[FrenchieCat]

56. You are welcome.......

As the speculation is borderline mean spirited to those who depend on these benefits to get them through....as though they need to worry about something else!

As for my girl...yes I am very proud, but she deserves all of the credit for her hard work! She just performed in the Vagina Monologues on stage last weekend and did awesome (she reported)!
She also just got accepted into a Masters/PHD 6 year program at Washington University at St. Louis......so yes, she going "Places". :)

[DURHAM D]

34. So Obama wants to put a doughnut hole in the SS pay-in?

What about the current cap at $103K? This is a very poorly written article but what can one expect from AEI research.

[MineralMan]

25. Neither Obama nor Blue Dog Democrats

are going to cut Social Security or Medicare payments. It ain't happening. What you are saying is FUD, pure and simple.

The funding of SS and Medicare are what will be changed, primarily by ending the income cap on contributions to those funds.

Please study the issue itself and don't rely on FUD-merchants. You'll do us all a favor.

[Robbien]

36. Bull, Blue Dogs have said they want to cut costs of social security

Since only 3% of each dollar collected in Social Security goes to admin costs, there are no costs to cut. The Blue Dogs are blowing smoke up anyone's butt who believes the Blue Dogs have any intention of doing anything but making sure the Social Security program dies.

[FLAprogressive]

39. YES.

"The Blue Dogs are blowing smoke up anyone's butt who believes the Blue Dogs have any intention of doing anything but making sure the Social Security program dies."

as someone said...the blue dogs are yellow bellied republicans/neocons who have infiltrated our party!

[tnlefty]

27. Ah, The Yellow Belleyed Republicans, aka Blue Dog democrats,

are at it again. How about gutting the vultures and sewer rats on Wall Street and the investment banks first, and leave the rest of us the hell alone. Oh, and shutting down the lied into wars that are bankrupting the country might not be such a bad idea either.

[frog92969]

29. Our party has long been taken over by corporate clowns and neocon moles

Now with a bigger majority it'll be harder to hide what they really are.
Kucinich thinks we should stay and try to fix it but I'm not sure I agree.

"For the people, by the people" is more than an antique sound byte, that's the core of the party I want to belong to.

[Zynx]

30. No matter what anyone tells you, this had nothing whatsoever to do with privatization.

I will pay everyone on this board $5 if Obama proposes privatization.

[Justitia]

35. LOL! You rock.

:yourock:

[JVS]

33. That's a bad idea! SS should be kept safe as the current crisis demonstrates.

[Cleita]

37. I miss Al Gore and his concept of the "lock box". n/t

[Zynx]

38. I will pay you $5 if this has anything to do with privatization.

Seriously, I will do it.

[FLAprogressive]

41. It has EVERYTHING to do with raising the retirement age and cutting benefits.

[FrenchieCat]

42. No, it actually doesn't.

DO you read all of the comments in your threads? because if you don't, I would advise that you start....strongly (in particular; mine).

[Justitia]

48. Not according to Pres. Obama - from the horse's mouth........:

“Protect Social Security

President Obama and Vice President Biden are committed to ensuring Social Security is solvent and viable for the American people, now and in the future. Obama and Biden will be honest with the American people about the long-term solvency of Social Security and the ways we can address the shortfall. They will protect Social Security benefits for current and future beneficiaries alike, and they do not believe it is necessary or fair to hardworking seniors to raise the retirement age. Obama and Biden are strongly opposed to privatizing Social Security. As part of a bipartisan plan that would be phased in over many years, they will ask those making over $250,000 to contribute a bit more to Social Security to keep it sound. Obama does not support uncapping the full payroll tax 12.4 percent rate. Instead, he and Joe Biden are considering plans that will ask those making over $250,000 to pay in the range of 2 to 4 percent more in total (combined employer and employee).”

http://www.whitehouse.gov/agenda/seniors_and_social_security/

[FLAprogressive]

53. well why are they discussing it now.....?

[Justitia]

54. Please remember you are referencing the Wall Street Journal - beware their characterizations.

and inferences. They have a hard right-wing editorial slant (Murdoch rag). Watch the careful parsing and phrasing in their article. Buried in the middle:

"White House budget director Peter R. Orszag has committed to instituting tougher budget-discipline rules -- once the economy turns around."

Well, duh - right?

[Zynx]

61. I have a question: Would a 1% cut in benefits just ruin your world?

[northernlights]

46. reforming and gutting are very different things

There are many ways to fix social security without undercutting its original purpose: means-testing and raising the caps to name two.

I seriously doubt anybody would dare try to gut it. It's not just the elderly who would rebel. Pretty much everyone over 40 knows they potentially could depend on it, no matter how hard they work, how well they plan, how much they save and invest. The minute you start to build a little pile, a thief comes along and steals it. Either it gets pilfered a bit or a time...or in big chunks. Only the professional crooks can be sure they won't need it. The rest of us...it's a gamble.

[NorthCarolina]

49. I wouldn't consider DLC and Blue Dogs "Centrists"

From my perspective I believe they are *at best* Center-Right, and I think that is being generous at that. I really don't see a place for them in the Democratic Party.

[FLAprogressive]

51. That's why I put "Centrist" in quotes...they are often described by the MSM as "centrists"

maybe they're "centrists" compared to the right-wing MSM.

[NorthCarolina]

63. I see. Of course the MSM also proclaims incessantly that the US is a "Center-Right" Nation

and I believe this to be a load of *bunk* as well, and just chalk it up to their form of brainwashing for the mindless masses that believe whatever they're told...because it's on *TV*.

[FLAprogressive]

64. yup....a lot of people who think they're "moderates" would actually be "liberal" by MSM standards...

[NNN0LHI]

55. Here is the tip off here ... the Wall Street Journal is reporting

The Wall Street Journal doesn't report. They spew propaganda.

Don

[Kansas Wyatt]

60. How's this for entitlement reform?

STOP spending Social Security & Medicare Taxes like it is Income Tax, and retroactively tax the Wealthy Elite for all the years it was used to offset their tax cuts, to start paying off the IOUs to it.

NO MORE gimmicks to screw the working class.

[New Dawn]

62. DLC = GOP

[FLAprogressive]

65. simple math .....

DLCers minus social issues (how they get progressives to vote for them) = GOP

[femrap]

66. Not all Democrats are

even Democrats!

[bbgrunt]

68. why isn't health care a bigger priority?

[OneBlueSky]

72. what's there to gut? . . .

correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the government already use Social Security funds as part of the overall budget? . . . I don't think that Al Gore's lock box actually exists -- nor does a bank account somewhere with billions and billions of Social Security dollars just waiting for retirees to start claiming it . . . what exists are IOUs from the US government -- whatever they may be worth . . .

[snot]

73. I'm retired! They already gutted by 401(k)! They'd better not even THINK about my SS etc.!!