Education Solution?

[Project Grudge]

I saw a recent post that said: "The way you get MORE good teachers than bad or average is very simple. You pay them ALL better -- much better -- and improve the training they must undergo. This will attract and retain more qualified people to the profession, as it does in any high-paying profession."
I don't know if anyone is paying attention, but we're in the middle of an economic downturn that could get much worse and the national debt is already 10,942,165,294,650.89.

Sure, I believe money could be taken from Defense and go to Education, but in the long term America is going to have to cut back everything at some point.

10,942,165,294,650.89 is a really big number.

So my question to DUers:

How can we improve public education without spending more cash and just throwing it around without a focus?
Are there any ways to improve public education that don't involve spending?


I think this is a discussion that has to be had because it's not just more money the system needs; the system isn't working and needs to be improved upon, not just expanded.

The only thing I can think of to this end is to eliminate the relationship between property tax and schooling. Penalizing the poor for a system that aims to be equitable for all Americans is a crime. This wouldn't affect the money side, just spending the property tax revenues differently

[ColbertWatcher]

1. Why shouldn't it involve spending?

I'm spending way more now than I did when I was 6 years old.

[Project Grudge]

2. Maybe I wasn't clear enough.

I'm not saying it shouldn't, but I'm simply wondering if there are steps or solutions that can be taken that don't involve spending. Teachers would obviously like to get paid more, as would everyone else. More money can be spent per pupil, for supplies, etc...

I'm just wondering if there are any structural or novel ideas that can be implemented immediately. C'mon there's 10,942,165,294,650.89 hanging over our heads. We'll probably be limited in the spending increases we can make so when we do I want to see what DUers think the most effective way it could be used in a system that'll maximize a return on the investment.

[ColbertWatcher]

5. Accountability.

Also, remove any impediment between teachers and students, including the superstitious.

[Project Grudge]

9. Superstitious

What is meant by the superstitious?

[ColbertWatcher]

13. Merriam-Webster's online dictionary says ...

of, relating to, or swayed by superstition

--Merriam-Webster

[ColbertWatcher]

14. Also, it should say "especially" not "including". n/t

[sandnsea]

3. Many states have equalized funding

All that has really happened is that all districts are getting less, at least that's what has happened in Oregon.

[Project Grudge]

7. n/t

I don't know the answer so I'll ask:

If Oregon eliminated that link and equalized funding...

So has the education system in the state suffered as a result?

If that's so then I'll have to go back to the drawing board.

[sandnsea]

8. It has - but

I don't think the problems can all be attributed to funding. Montana has equalization funding too, iirc, and they haven't had the drop in achievement that Oregon has had since the 80s. I personally think it was an unintentional lowering of standards when they went to a school-to-work model, but I can't prove it.

[XemaSab]

4. Eliminating the property tax link is a good start

another good start is bringing in corporate or governmental partnerships, so professional scientists, journalists, archaeologists, historians, politicians, and so forth can spend a few hours a week teaching a class about something fun.

I'd love to volunteer for a school, but I don't feel like there's a lot of opportunity. :(

[ColbertWatcher]

6. This is a good idea.

Keep the funding coming, but distribute the funds evenly between schools.

[proud2BlibKansan]

10. Sorry Friend but I strongly disagree

This is a conversation I have often because I live in one of the best suburban districts in one state and teach in one of the worst urban districts in another state. And the fact is that some kids are more expensive to educate. If you are going to equalize outcomes, as NCLB does (and I am not opposed to that) then you need more resources for some kids and some schools.

Take two 5 year olds. One is from a two parent home in the suburbs. He has attended preschool and someone reads to him every day. The other one lives in an economically depressed high crime area with a single parent and he does not speak English. No one reads to him. Which kid do you think will learn to read first?

So the same amount of money for each kid is not equitable. There is a saying in education: Fair is not giving everyone the same amount; fair is giving everyone what they need. :)

[ColbertWatcher]

15. Fair enough. But let the people directly involved in the classrooms ...

... make the decisions on how the money is spent.

Don't leave it up to a formula or politicians.

[proud2BlibKansan]

16. I can go along with that

:hi:

[Winterblues]

11. Paying people more does not necessarily equate to better performance

Look at all the bankers that have run their banks into dissolution. I don't think they could be paid much more, what after their bonus's and percs, yet they have not performed well at all. I agree the majority of our teachers deserve better pay but there are still teachers that want to teach Creationism. I certainly don't want them rewarded for excellence.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

17. No, but it would help the teacher shortage and teacher retention.

This isn't rocket science.

[Spike89]

12. Budget nonsense

I do understand that we're staring at huge deficits but it is false to then say we should look for solutions that cost nothing. The fact is that the money the federal government is spending on education is miniscule and even if the feds doubled the amount spent there, it wouldn't make a significant change to the deficit (actually, doubling the fed contribution would increase the average school budget less than 5%).

Say you got "downsized" at work and your paycheck was cut in half. Of course you'll need to adjust your budget, but just like in the case of the federal budget, you'd be foolish to make straight 50% cuts. You might even want to spend more on certain things (like resumes, internet access, and other tools for working your way out of the "crisis").

It is incredibly shortsighted to shortchange education when the economy is showing signs of weakness. We are not going to be able to maintain, much less improve, our base economic well being without investing in education. The same people that decry the global competition always seem to ignore the little details that are making these places more competitive--they are spending more and more on education (especially China, India, and Russia). Last I heard, all three of those countries were producing more PhDs than the US and are closing on surpassing us on per capita college degrees.

Anyone saying we need to do more with less when it comes to education just isn't paying attention, or is suffering from the effects of an education system that is slowly being starved of resources and the best talent.