"Too Interested In Detainees" So Gitmo Officer "Was Taken Behind Barracks & Blows Were Issued"

[kpete]

March 11, 2009, TD Blog Interview with Terry Holdbrooks, Jr.

Terry Holdbrooks, Jr. served as a military police officer with the rank of Specialist in the United States Army between 2002 and 2005, attached to the 252nd Military Police, and later assigned to the 463rd MP company, a mobile deploying unit, based at Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri. From 2003 to 2004, he was deployed to Guantanamo Bay, where he served as a prison guard. On March 5, 2009, I had the privilege of interviewing Mr. Holdbrooks by telephone. What follows are my interview notes, corrected as appropriate by Mr. Holdbrooks.


Terry Holdbrooks: Well, we were given an introduction to detention tactics for a week or two in the course of training, but I did not find it particularly meaningful, or particularly realistic compared to what we eventually encountered. This was conducted at Fort Dix, New Jersey just before we left for GTMO. This was a crash course given to us by 5 random sergeants of the "31c mos", meaning, correctional officers. It was nothing like what we were going into, and in no way a real preparation for the experience ahead.

We also did see quite a number of what I would call propaganda films: films of towers falling, pictures of bin Laden, people crying and flags flying, and then random presumably Muslim individuals, all with heavy metal music playing, usually in three minute song length segments. Before going to Guantanamo (and even at Guantanamo) we saw a lot of these things, I just thought that this is how the Army stoked up people during training. Drowning Pool's Let the Bodies hit the Floor was a common song for this. It is simple to see how it is propaganda and programming. We also took a trip to "Ground Zero" just before the day we flew out, this was to really nail in the idea that "these people are bad" and to get us riled and ready for hatred. I remember reading a quote someone had left on the wall there, "this is the worst tragedy to happen to mankind". It really made me sad to think our educational system is so lacking, that this was the worst someone could think of to mankind. Never mind the Holocaust, Josef Stalin, the Crusades, the Armenian Genocide, they don’t count, they're not American-related, I suppose.

............

As to "professionalism"... that was just not a word I would use to describe guards at Guantanamo, other than when VIPs such as my home state's esteemed Senior Senator John McCain or generals, diplomats or other dignitaries showed up, when suddenly, everything would appear to be in perfect order. Otherwise, most guards were just eager to leave, and new guards were disappointed to be there. (While the guards were less than professional, the medical staffs, usually Navy and Marine Corpsmen were quite professional... patient care was patient care, whether the patient was an American or an accused terrorist.)

..............

In my case, a few squad leaders decided that I had shown too much interest in the detainees... I was not appropriately abusive or angry enough... I didn't harbor "the right feeling". So I was taken behind my barracks, and some blows were issued, pushing and yelling, a lot of profanity. I was told to "get my head on straight"... and asked why I was not with the program... I responded that it was "not my prerogative."

At that point, my own squad leader separated me out from the others, suggested that they end this, lest they all get in trouble. I did not report this to my captain or sergeant... I felt that the pain was temporary, and that there was no reason to worry about this incident, so I let it go.

........

(5) As to "ERFing," a fair number of soldier’s plain old got their rocks off by ERFing. They were literally excited-- they got off on tying a detainee up, smashing them into the wall. Indeed, excited to do it was a predominant attitude among guards who did it. Some guards volunteered for ERF duty, some teams were regularly assigned. Somehow, I never "ERFed" a single detainee... there were supposed to be two teams available for "ERFing" in each camp; somehow, when the ERF call came in, I took my time getting into the ERF riot gear, and "missed out” on the ERFing. I did not want to do it, to be sure.

more of interview here:
http://thetalkingdog.com/archives2/001274.html

[Solly Mack]

1. K&R

[kpete]

2. who have we become....

I remember reading a quote someone had left on the wall there, "this is the worst tragedy to happen to mankind". It really made me sad to think our educational system is so lacking, that this was the worst someone could think of to mankind. Never mind the Holocaust, Josef Stalin, the Crusades, the Armenian Genocide, they don’t count, they're not American-related, I suppose.

[MadMaddie]

11. "We have become them"!!

the very people we are supposed to be fighting against. This is t he legacy of * and Cheney.-

[defendandprotect]

14. These are generally very young people . . .

I doubt you could draft a 28 year old and get away with all this crap ---

[Fumesucker]

34. Sure you could..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Before conducting the experiment, Milgram polled fourteen Yale University senior-year psychology majors as to what they thought would be the results. All of the poll respondents believed that only a few (average 1.2%) would be prepared to inflict the maximum voltage. Milgram also informally polled his colleagues and found that they, too, believed very few subjects would progress beyond a very strong shock.<1>

In Milgram's first set of experiments, 65 percent (26 of 40)<1> of experiment participants administered the experiment's final 450-volt shock, though many were very uncomfortable doing so; at some point, every participant paused and questioned the experiment, some said they would refund the money they were paid for participating in the experiment. Only one participant steadfastly refused to administer shocks before the 300-volt level.<1>

Later, Prof. Milgram and other psychologists performed variations of the experiment throughout the world, with similar results<5> although unlike the Yale experiment, resistance to the experimenter was reported anecdotally elsewhere.<6> Milgram later investigated the effect of the experiment's locale on obedience levels by holding an experiment in an unregistered, backstreet office in a bustling city, as opposed to at Yale, a respectable university. The level of obedience, "although somewhat reduced, was not significantly lower". What made more of a difference was the proximity of the "learner" and the experimenter. There were also variations tested involving groups.

[hootinholler]

3. kick to find later, Thanks for posting! n/t

[Elidor]

4. K&R

[tblue37]

5. I can guess what "ERFing" means-but what does it actually stand for? nt

[gratuitous]

9. Emergency Reaction Force

Although what sort of "emergency" a bunch of trussed-up prisoners could cause is anybody's guess.

I saw a story tonight on ABC News how West Point is getting all oral history on war, and talking with combat veterans about their experiences. I wonder if they'll interview Mr. Holdbrooks about his experience? Or any of the detainees? Or any Iraqi survivors of the U.S. occupation? I mean, if the Academy is really interested in capturing the full flavor of war.

[tblue37]

13. Thanks. nt

[defendandprotect]

16. Right . . .like Holdbrooks story will ever make the history books --- !!!

[canetoad]

10. Extreme Reaction Force nt

[tblue37]

12. Thanks. nt

[Prometheus Bound]

6. Like working for the devil.

[me b zola]

7. K&R

[annabanana]

8. k&r . . . . . n/t

[defendandprotect]

15. Thanks to Terry Holdbrooks, we also know that "teaching hatred" is a value in the military . . .!!!

Therefore, don't ever let anyone ever suggest that it's not harmful --

hatred motivates warriors -- even if we recognize it's simply propaganda and brainwashing!!!

[jmowreader]

24. Hatred has ALWAYS been taught by the military

It's hard to kill someone you don't hate, so they spend lots of time and effort in teaching the troops to hate the enemy. Remember that classic cadence from Full Metal Jacket: Ho Chi Minh is a son of a bitch / Got blue balls, crabs and the seven year itch. We used to sing I was up in the Golan Heights / Had me a rag-head in my sights as a running cadence when I was in the 101st. In fact, we sang a LOT about killing brown people--almost as much as we sang about the parachutes we didn't have failing during a jump. If I die on the old drop zone / Scrape me up and ship me home.

[defendandprotect]

27. True . . . what I was trying to emphasize, however . ..

is that the use of hatred as a motivating tool confirms our side of the

arguments we have long had -- and still have in Congress --- both about

those who teach hatred and intolerance (organized patriarchal religions,

for instance} -- and those who act on it ("pro-life" bombers and shooters

and homophobic assaulters and murders) --- which is that teaching hatred

does work!

Needless to say, even if perhaps indirectly, the military has taught hatred

for females -- however, organized patriarchal religions were also teaching

that hatred before the military did it.

The "gooks" of Vietnam . . . the "ragheads" of Iraq -- are examples of

teaching racism which I think most of us expected would have long been gone!!

Some say, "It's easier to teach hatred than to teach love."

and others say, "Peace is harder than war."

Hatred is a tool of exploitation used by those interested in keeping profitable

exploitation in place --

[wroberts189]

17. Is this Nazi enough for everyone yet???? nt

[rasputin1952]

18. What I see is that it is very easy to manipulate others who have

a "lust for power" over others. Even a "normal" individual can be turned into a sadist if the "proper" techniques are used.

In my military years I knew men and women who took their jobs very seriously, were exceptionally professional and took great pride their service. Sure, there were lunkheads and braggarts, but they were few in #. What happens is, first you get the lunkheads to do the "dirty" work, then others follow, usually blindly. Abusing others is pretty easy, especially when one has the "official" word to do so.

Those who maintain a base of morality find it difficult to "toe the line" on abuse. Far too often, they remain silent; in this case, that silence has been broken.

Under an amoral administration, it should not surprise anyone that abuses were commonplace. I find it abhorrent that we, as citizens, can allow this to occur, and far worse that it was actually condoned by those higher up the Chain of Command.

[14thColony]

19. Which makes it all the more amazing that an E-4

...was able to stand up against the massive peer pressure and CoC pressure that would have been brought to bear against him. It's quite an act of intentional self-excommunication he committed for the sake of his principals, especially given the circumstances.

For people who've never been in the military it's easy to say "he/she/they should have refused to do X, or should have done the right thing regardless." It's a damn sight harder to do that when you're actually there, alone, with the entire system against you. Humans do not naturally take steps to alienate themselves from the group.

[rasputin1952]

21. I can recall instances when morality has been the trump card in

situations, rare for sure, but it has been done.

At My Lai, a chopper pilot put his bird down on the road and told his door gunner to train his M-60 on Calley's men to stop the slaughter. They threatened him later w/a Court martial, but he wound up w/a Silver Star instead.

While there were atrocities committed in all theaters during WWII, the Marines treated the few prisoners they took humanely, even after these same men expended their last round killing/wounding a fellow Marine. Even in Nazi Germany, there were humanitarians and dissenters that survived after speaking out.

An E-4 going up against the system is a brave act, even if the best he could do was "take his time" suiting up. Many O-1's to O-5's don't really give a damn what the troops do from a moral standpoint, there are a few, but you know which officers you can trust, and those you can't; you get a "feel" almost immediately of who you are dealing with. For some, you'd charge the gates of hell, for most, you just follow orders and hope the experienced NCO's get you through the mission.

As a former Med Plt Sgt, I would never have stood for such abuse, I would have used the Chain of Command, but I damn sure would have been in contact w/elected officials as well, and document everything.

[Time for change]

20. This reminds me a great deal of the book by James Yee, the first (and maybe only) Muslim chaplain at

Gitmo.

They did a lot more to him than "issue some blows". They arrested him, put him in solitary confinement, and tortured him for several months. Yee's book should have gotten a lot more attention than it did:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=304686

[Bondor]

22. laws? investigation?

Shouldn't a story like this trigger some investigation and prosecution of those who did not behave according to the military code of conduct? Courts-marshals? How far have we actually descended into barbarism?

[Harmonika]

23. Who?

Who got blown, now?

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

25. It's way worse than

any of you can imagine.

Can I hear any sympathy for someone who had a microchip implanted without their knowledge or consent, 10 years ago?

An American citizen whose life has been under constant surveillance since October of 1998. No. What I've received from this progressive community is taunts, and name calling like tin foiler. A government that uses weapons on ME. Can't get an attorney or any member of congress that gives one damn about my constitutional rights being violated.

Living in fear of what you all have just found out, Chaney's hit squad.

Oh, I make more sense now, now that all the dictatorial powers are being found out. Do any of you believe it is beyond reason that this government couldn't/wouldn't chip someone? Oh the reason is even more compelling. kpete, you've posted articles for me. Never asking why I couldn't post them myself.

When someone lives with the knowledge that you better watch what you say, you better watch what you do is a very real threat, and people you love could be hurt, when an entire city is involved in a cover-up either because the dictator is really so terrifying or they just don't care to save someone who has been terrorized and had weapons used on them that immobilize muscles, had their thoughts read and has Everything taken from them in the way of relationships, freedom, and liberty.

Whose elderly mother has been victimized by the goon squad, who is nearly MAD after years of weapons being used on them and isolation. Having your home broken into, property stolen, property damaged beyond use. Mail stolen or redirected and hauled into court for a restraining order for stalking when you don't have a car to even go to the grocery store.

A computer monitor sizzled for trying to email an attorney. And a congresswoman who says, I am not an attorney, I can't help you. Taken the Sacred Oath 6 times now since this microchip was implanted, with knowledge thereof.


But let us make sure those prisoners at GITMO get their day in court, that their rights are protected.

People that rape and murder children have more rights than has been afforded me.



It is way worse than you can imagine or believe. Screw their Truth Commission.

They don't want you to know the truth.

[Truth2Tell]

28. Why don't you have it removed if you know about it? nt

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

29. it is

in my arm and the only evidence that I'm telling the truth. Beside that, removing it wouldn't stop anything. It is a tracking device as far as I know. Just like the chip in your car or like the RFID chips in grocery or clothing items, or your pet. They still could do many of the things I've stated.

I've tried removing it myself. Unfortunately it is in my right upper arm, I'm right-handed, and surgery wasn't meant for one handed non experienced amateurs.

Is that what you really wanted to know, Why don't I get it removed?

[Truth2Tell]

30. Yes, that's what I wanted to know.

You say that removing it (or having it removed) wouldn't stop anything, but it seems like it would stop them from being able to track you. And of course if you kept it, or gave it to the right people, it would still be effective as evidence that you are telling the truth.

[Torn_Scorned_Ignored]

31. great points

here is a piece you are not understanding.

My life is devastated. I am not able to get an attorney. For years I've been trying to find someone to represent me. I have tried the Center for Constitutional Rights, ACLU, Turley and all points in between. I did get a response from someone who did say he believed me and that he knew this sort of thing happened. He asked if I had any money - he said he couldn't fund this himself, the govt. would stonewall and it would be time consuming and costly. I then saw him on C-SPAN representing Monica Goodling.

I will say this one time, I'm not being evasive but my situation is this;

What has occurred in my life has been described as Torture. Their definition. I have permanent psychological damage. Obviously you haven't internalized what I wrote in my original post. Military Grade Weapons have been used on me.

I has been isolated for years, every relationship in my life has suffered and become nearly nonexistent. I have no family that cares to even call to see if I'm ok or need something. My Mom has Alzheimer's and I speak to her once a day on the phone, usually for less than a minute.

I cannot explain to you the horrific affects of this ordeal. I can barely put sentences together trying to explain. I haven't had a conversation beyond social niceties in the grocery store or delivery person in Years. I'm sorry I cannot give you a simple solution.

Truth2Tell it is not simple. I'll give you a link from a post I wrote a while back. You will need to go about halfway down the thread, past the congresswoman campaign contributions list. As for this thread, I am finished.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=172&topic_id=22722

[PM Martin]

32. Why would a microchip be implanted in your body?

[PM Martin]

33. kick

[LiberalLovinLug]

26. The military worship has to end in the US

The American psyche is so brainwashed with the idea that their military is full of John Waynes and Jimmy Stewarts and they can do no wrong. Jeez every other sporting event has some kind of military show and loud cheering, and many game shows on TV feature some young military man,in full uniform, and his faithful wife in the audience. I for one am sick of this fawning display.

Yes the US needs a military, but the kind of unconditional worship that they get in the US allows them such incredible leeway to get away with any and all kinds of abuses. It leads to the assholes rising to the top and honest smart soldiers like Terry Holdbrooks being ostracized or worse.