re: CODE PINK, it's amazing that some DUers want to act like those of us who are turned off. . .

[wndycty]

. . .are sellouts who want to quash free speech, are threatened by outspoken women, etc.

We have an issue with them and their tactics, but most of us are not trying to psycho analyze, make assumptions, etc. about folks who support them we just accept that there is a difference of opinion on CODE PINK.

I understand there are folks here who support CODE PINK. . .great, BUT SAVE YOUR INSECURE PSYCHO ANALYST of those who think their act is getting tired.

[peace13]

1. Ouch...struck a nerve.

I believe there are men in Code Pink as well. All kinds of folks get off of their butts and actually do something to change the world. Go figure.

[wndycty]

3. What I don't I get is, why you want to portray those of us who take issue with their tactics. . .

. . .as having something wrong us.

Care to explain?

[EFerrari]

7. Could it have been all the names you called CP supporters in your thread this morning?

Just a wild guess.

[wndycty]

8. What names did I call them? You made the accusation that I called them names. . .

. . .back it up. I will acknowledge that I drew a comparison to Westboro Church but I did not call them one name. . .

Folks who make accusations need to back it up.

[EFerrari]

17. I'm sure your posts are still at your disposal.

:)

[wndycty]

24. They are also at your disposal and since you are implying I called them names. . .

. . .it shouldn't be too hard to provide me with evidence, right?

[arcadian]

56. No need to peruse your previous post you just revealed it.

"Westboro Baptisit Church"? The most bigoted, hated group of freepers on DU. Great :eyes:

[roguevalley]

67. anyone who risks prison for this country is my hero. To discomfort

the comfortable is what protest is about. They have not had a tactic yet that I find offensive. Protest isn't a cotillion. It's war. Sorry it makes you nervous.

[RaleighNCDUer]

14. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x285487

In the not distant future, we'll be saying this about Code Pink.

[Bluenorthwest]

23. Equating Code Pink with Fred Phelps

and then wonding why you get 'portrayed' instead of listened to is stunningly out of touch. Be honest, if such a thing is possible for you, your threads about this did nothing but characterize and editorialize and generalize. You 'portrayed' others in all sorts of terrible terms. Yet you expect better treatment in return?

[wndycty]

27. Well if you read the thread, when I made the comparison I provided evidence and examples. . .

. . .of WHY I BELIEVED the comparison was appropriate. You might not agree with the comparison but it was thought out, supported by examples that I believe reinforced my theory.

Take issue with the comparison all you want, but I ask you to consider my reasons for the comparison.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5279403&mesg_id=5279576

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5279403&mesg_id=5279634

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5279403&mesg_id=5279675

Folks making assumptions about those of us who take issue with CODE PINK have provided very little evidence to back up their assumptions.

[Bluenorthwest]

36. I have considered your reasons

and I fully do not agree. Code Pink has been at my side facing Phelps. Unlike other groups. For years.

My questions for you are as follows: 1: Have you ever taken any stand against Phelps yourself, live and in person? If not, then you don't really know what Phelps and company do in the street. If you have not faced it, you don't know it, and yet you claim to. Seeing Phelps on TV is not the same.
So. What is your personal experience with Phelps? If your understanding comes just from the media, please say so clearly. You are claiming knowlege I do not think you have. I think you only know Phelps from second hand stories, not real life experience. From TV, you make an opinion and think it is full and real? From a magazine you claim tactical experience of Phelps?

2: What tactics do you support to replace those you think are so bad for decorum or whatever? What tactics do you suggest? How would your activism look? Don't like Code Pink, suggest a better way. It seems you are suggesting silence and a lack of action.

You want to talk tactics, do so. Hyperbole and characterization are tactics of language that I think are way out of line. Useless among our own. So talking tactics, I am not crazy about your tactics, here at DU.

[wndycty]

37. I am fine with folks who don't agree with me. . .

I don't have personal experience with Phelps but I would think the MAJORITY of folks on DU don't either.
My point about Phelps is that on POLICY they are not too out of line with the religious right, however it is their rhetoric and tactics that have put them on the fringe.

As far as CODE PINK's tactics my issue and the point I was making yesterday in my other OP was that I don't support disrupting hearings.

I am open to any number of tactics. While you could call disrupting hearings as a form of civil disobedience (and I generally support civil disobedience) showing up to disrupt a hearing that has actually nothing to do the groups mission of ending the war is kind of stupid.

Lastly, I and others are being called out for having a contrary OPINION on CODE PINK, an OPINION. I have not said they have no right to do protest, disrupt, whatever. But when an organization's activities begin to turn off folks who would be otherwise supportive of the organizations mission that organization should re-examine itself.

[proud2BlibKansan]

43. I have had personal experience with Fred Phelps

I have faced him and his family many times. Comparing this group of lunatics to CP is nuts. They share a method. Period. And if you don't understand the difference between method and message I don't know what to tell you.

[wndycty]

47. You proved my point. . .

. . you stated "They share a method." And it is that method which I take issue with.

I don't take issue with CODE PINK as a whole, I take an issue with the method of disruption.

Additionally, since I agree with CODE PINK's opposition to the war I fear that method may end up marginalizing CODE PINK much like Fred Phelps' groups is marginalized.

So hopefully you understand why I made the comparison

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. You made the comparison to stir shit up

You at least need to be honest about your reasons for starting this thread.

[arcadian]

58. How do you feel about the Lunch counter sit-ins in the 60s?

Were those too disruptive for you? According to your skewed logic, MLK = Fred Phelps

[RufusTFirefly]

64. Bingo! Thank you!!

I love Code Pink!

[Bluenorthwest]

48. So.

Your actual knowlege of Phelps and Co is all what the media reports. And I disagree that most religious folk share policy with Phelps. You think Phelps is just 'opposed to gay marriage'? Tip of the iceberg, what the media shows you at home, safe at home.
And so you opposed disrupting hearings in any way, but you offer no alternatives at all. That is now said and done.
And back to characterizing others instead of reporting honestly. You claim Code Pink's mission has noting to do with finances. Here is the opening line of Code Pink's mission statement, in the words of Code Pink:
"Mission Statement:
CODEPINK is a women-initiated grassroots peace and social justice movement working to end the war in Iraq, stop new wars, and redirect our resources into healthcare, education and other life-affirming activities."

Redirect our resorces. That means finacial resources among others. Stop new wars. Nations in huge debt historically have often gone to war to get out of that hole. It is common for such things to happen. Financial irresponsibility can lead us into war, and away from healthcare and education. That is their mission, according to them. Seems to include more than your characterization of their mission as 'ending the war'.
So their mission as they see it is not as you claim it is. An honest broker does not need to speak for others, as you do in rewriting Code Pink's mission.
So. No real world experience, no ideas for alternatives, a dishonest reporting of Code Pink's Mission worded to support your argument. So your 'opinion' of Code Pink is not based on the facts of Code Pink. Makes it moot at best. They say such hearings are well within their mission, and I agree.

[wndycty]

49. Understand the distinction between religious and the "religious right"

:kick:

[Bluenorthwest]

51. I grew up in religious schools

where the ground work for the religious right was laid. I can talk about that distiction in great detail.
So now that you've split that hair, care to address the rest of my post? Like telling us why you felt the need to reword and alter Code Pink's Mission to fit your argument? Like telling us what tactics you do support, and all about the results you have had using those tactics?
I am in fact a member of the Assemblies of God. Went to Mega churches in OC, CA, just like Ricky Warren's. My secondary schooling was all in Protestant religious schools. Francis Schaeffer and Calvery Chapel. I'e even been to several famous congregations in Chicago, such as Trinty UCC, former home of Pres Obama, long before Obama made it famous. I was there because they and I were and are on the same side, which is not the same side as the reiglious right, although Trinity is religious. I've attended Orthodox Armenian, Greek, Coptic, Catholic, Baptist, Lutheran, Methodist, Four Square, Jesus' Name, Holiness, Church of God, Church of Christ, Church of God in Christ. Kingdom Hall, LDS....Shall I go on? Mosques in several nations, synagouges, temples of B'hai faith, Hindu, Druze, Druid....
Now about the rest of my post....


edited for stupid mistakes of grammer and typing

[Bluenorthwest]

55. Learn the distinction

between what you say is a groups mission, and what that group says is their mission. Learn to respond to questions and points raised. Learn to not make assumptions about the backgroud and knowlege base of those you speak to. Learn to let people speak for themselves, and also learn to speak for and of yourself. Many here have asked you to explain the tactics you use, and to report the results you get from them. But you do not. And you wonder why the discussion has fangs?
You rewrote CP's mission and attacked them from that false premise. Utterly dishonest. And your only response is to assume I don't know the religious world. Weak as can be.
By the way, 'religious' is not the same as 'christian'. And even on the right of such faiths, very few indeed agree with Phelps in any way, not just tactically. They do not agree that our military fallen are hell bound, for one thing. Phelps is not just anti-gay rights, and you ought to know that if you are going to bring him up. He stands virtually alone in his theology, even among right wing christianists. And that is a fact.

[el_bryanto]

33. Time honored rhetorical technique

"You disagree with me, eh? Well you must be an ill-informed dumbass."

"I am not an ill-informed dumbass!"

"Struck a nerve eh? Well this surely proves you are an ill-informed dumbass."

Well played.

Bryant

[wndycty]

39. Exactly

:kick:

[unkachuck]

2. I love....

....CODE PINK and I love you too.

[hobbit709]

4. popcorn time

Get it by the truckload

[Taverner]

9. I'm shutting up this time

:popcorn:

[BuyingThyme]

5. Can you direct me to a thread without that psychoanalyzation of which you speak?

[valerief]

6. Code Pink is fabulous!!!! nt

[Supply Side Jesus]

10. In my experience

If you happen to have an opinion which might vary some of those on here, they love to label and judge. Stick up for a cop, you're a fucking fascist pig. Utter a word 'supporting' gun rights, you are a freeper with over a thousand posts. Make fun of a person who happens to be a female, then you're a sexist pig who can't handle a strong female.
I wonder what kind of analysis can be done on those who can't handle a disagreement from their own party?
Happens every time. Become the one in power, then attack your own for ideological impurities.

[wndycty]

11. Don't forget religion. I do not go to church and I'm not religious

Yet whenever I defend the religious I am called a fundie.

[valerief]

13. Hmm

:nopity:

[Supply Side Jesus]

68. PURGE THE NON-BELIEVERS!!!

:yoiks:

[bridgit]

12. Color is fine for guerrilla street theater, black for protestations is my preference and it's

easily justifiable to retain the props: large sunglasses, flowing scarfs & garments reminiscent of Billionaires for Bush cept with lots o'pink, even wiggly pink insect antennae stuff like that but why so much pink; with a palette filled with color theories able to import several themes? As I say about black for protest or the oft theatrical moment which Code Pink endorses; retain all the props & stingers, utilize color theory; but black is able to display the work without having to popularize the players themselves while accentuating the gravity of what is being conveyed, elsewise...it can be like bad Hamlet; dark, dank, cold, mossy bad Hamlet with a pink skull in hand wearing big ole googley eyed glasses :):(

Push Me/Pull Me -- Ping Me/Pong Me!

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ProfessorGAC]

21. Well You're Wrong

I know windy personally, and he's no repuke.
GAC

[wndycty]

25. Thanks professor. . .

. . .the name calling illustrates my point. If I have a difference of opinion on CODE PINK, I am not considered a true progressive with a difference of opinion but at least one posters considers me a Repuke.

If that poster really wants to narrow this down to a partisan issue I bet my track record on supporting Democratic candidates is much better than CODE PINK's.

[stillcool]

16. I think it's fine for people to criticize...

the tactics Code Pink uses to force recognition.., as long as every single one of these individuals is given heaping loads of credit for doing what millions upon millions of us do not.

[earth mom]

18. Insecure men can't handle strong outspoken women like the courageous & brilliant women of Code Pink.

They are the kind of men that buy Hummers or jack their cars up or make their cars sound real loud because they have something to prove.

Bet you can TOTALLY relate. :eyes:

[Cid_B]

20. You seem to have an automotive fixation...

Personal experience peeking through?

[Echo In Light]

29. Ha...true. I recall watching Neil Young, early 70s, poking fun at American culture of macho cars

I think it's the way automobiles were marketed to that macho/cowboy affectation. A clear example of corporate marketing shaping the course and priorities of the public mind - much the same way every other dingle-berry and his brother now rides a Harley, replete with matching "tough-guy biker" costume lol

Harley's used to stand for an anti-establishment mode of living. Now you have to be VERY pro e$tablishment to afford one. The guy on the Moped, now that guy's tough... ;)

[SidDithers]

30. Thanks for illustrating the OP's point...nt

Sid

[readmoreoften]

19. Waaa. People don't have the right to criticize my criticisms. Waaa.

You're turned off by Code Pink. I'm turned off by you. Life goes on.

[ProfessorGAC]

22. Excuse Me, But Why Is Your Post Any Different?

GAC

[wndycty]

26. Folks have a right to criticize, but they also deserve to be called out . . .

. . .when their criticisms are not backed up in fact.

I can take criticism but I will push back whenever folks make shit up about me. I have been accused of being a sexist threatened by outspoken women and also a Repuke because I take issue with CODE PINK, hey criticize me but give me some evidence to back up the accusations against me and I assume others who share my view of CODE PINK.

[eridani]

28. Fine. Now tell us what tactics you are using to accomplish the same goals

Include analysis of how they have worked out so far.

[spanone]

31. nwmhtt

[Name removed]

32. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[wndycty]

38. Name calling again. . .

. . .very nice. BTW I started this thread last night.

Again explain to me how not supporting CODE PINK makes me a dick?

[Iggo]

34. Forget it.

Not worth it.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[burythehatchet]

40. Hey Mods: Here's another DU rule

Inflammatory or Flame-Bait Discussion Topics

Do not post "flame bait" discussion topics. While there is no clear line regarding what constitutes flame bait, the moderators have the authority to shut down threads which they consider too rhetorically hot, too divisive, too extreme, or too inflammatory. Please use good judgment when starting threads; inflammatory rhetoric does not normally lead to productive discussion.

Do not start a new topic in order to continue a flame war from another discussion thread.

[wndycty]

41. This is not a flamebait thread. I understand those who have been calling folks. . .

. . .names are upset that their posts are being deleted.

But this thread was created to discuss the name calling and accusations made towards folks who have a contrary opinion on issues, in this case CODE PINK.

In this thread I am attempting to have a discussion. I am not calling folks names, I am trying to defend my arguments. When accused of being sexist I ask for evidence that I am sexist.

This thread stands on its own and should not be locked. It is only inflammatory because SOME who do not agree with the OP are behaving in an inflammatory manner.

[burythehatchet]

42. Last post from me. You're on Ignore.

[wndycty]

45. Buh bye. . .

. . .I would prefer you engage in a discussion. We have differing opinions, this is DU can't we discuss those differing opinions and agree to disagree, while at the same time getting a different perspective on the issue?

Again, I am pyscho analyzing those who don't agree with me, I consider their opinion and some of the points they make.

[G_j]

60. created to discuss the name calling

sounds like flamebait to me..
:shrug:

[mmonk]

44. Count me as a psycho analyst.

Code Pink does the heavy lifting of dissent.

[wndycty]

46. I won't argue with you. . .I agree. . .

. . .but I take issue with ONE of their tactics, which is disrupting hearings.

You and I would agree that they do more than disrupt hearings, don't they?

I never said that they shouldn't be out there protesting, I just drew the line at disrupting hearings.

[mmonk]

50. That's fine. I have no problem with what you choose to draw the line at.

But remember to keep in mind that people who just sit and listen do nothing but effectively accept the status quo.

[Fumesucker]

65. I don't see disrupting kabuki as all that grievous a sin..

Sorry, but the hearings are pure kabuki and we all know it.

Virtually all the politicians are bought and paid for by those they are supposedly "grilling" in the hearings, hence my labeling of those hearings as kabuki.

[tekisui]

53. It takes all types. Their tactics work,

you are STILL talking about them. They are there to get into serious policy discussions or work within the system, they are there to make noise, raise awareness and get attention to the story. And, they are successful.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

54. a lot of feel that the democratic party and a lot of Dem's are complicit in the atrocities

that the poor and middle class have to bear by oppressive capitalism. including wars that are unnecessary, the economic oppression of the middle class and the continuation of sexism/homophobia.

[arcadian]

57. Like I said in another thread

If you had bashed Code Pink a few years ago, your thread would have been dogpiled.

[Wind Dancer]

59. How many threads must you start?

You've made it quite clear how you feel about CP in numerous other threads. I don't understand the need for yet another one. :shrug:

[endarkenment]

61. They just aren't lady-like enough for your tastes.

As long as we are continuing the discussion.

Gosh this is fun.

[QueenOfCalifornia]

62. You crack me up

really.

[Life Long Dem]

63. The sky falls as often as a rooster crows

[uppityperson]

66. I'm not an insecure psycho analyst, just psycho, thank you very much.