Communism failed. Capitalism failed. What do we try next?

[Cyrano]

Communism turned out to be nothing more than a bunch of guys at the top screwing everyone else.

(Unregulated) Capitalism turned out to be nothing more than a bunch of guys at the top screwing everyone else.

So what do we human creatures try next? Is there a system which will allow us all to live decent lives free of want and fear? Beats me.

But I'd sure love to see some new idea of how to organize society into a workable, sane and equitable system.

Then again, perhaps we humans are incapable of casting out the traits that make us want what others have, or to keep us from killing each other.

Does anyone have an idea of how we can do this? Or are we doomed to go the way of the dinosaur?

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. State socialism (i.e., Soviet communism) failed

[marmar]

71. self-delete, responded to wrong post

nt

[opihimoimoi]

2. Of course there is....its called Peace3....life on a roll with drinks with tiny umbrellas in them

Come, we go Luau

[valerief]

3. Drop money. A resource-based economy. nt

[LakeSamish706]

4. Dictatorship, with the right Dictator.. And not a Bush either... (kidding here of course) n/t

[defendandprotect]

5. Democratic socialism . . . dump capitalism . ..

[Horse with no Name]

6. It isn't hard to narrow it down

Look at the statistics on the healthiest people, lowest infant mortality rates, etc. and find the commonalities.
Healthy people are happy people. There is something to that.

[Motown_Johnny]

7. necessities should be socialized, luxuries should be capitalized

[cali]

65. so the dairy farm down the road from me should be socialized?

[Moochy]

8. Plutocracy

[Cyrano]

20. Plutocracy? Bah. It's just unregulated capitalism with a different name.

[Moochy]

23. Whatever name we decide to call it...

...it will still be run by plutocrats.

Frankly, it's the goofycrats we gotta look out for. Notice those BLUE pants on that DOG?

[Mr. Hyde]

27. Plutocracy can thrive under communism as easily as Marxism. Indeed, it does.

Plutocracy is what we have, what we have always had, and what we will always have because of something called the golden rule: "he who has the gold makes the rules".

[espiral]

9. re:

Communism did not fail. The Soviet Union failed, to be sure;
however, Communism itself did not fail.

[Cyrano]

32. Go for it, Che. Try to revive the communism of the last century.

In truth, it's my belief that communism was never actually tried. Russians adapted the philosophy and very quickly turned it into a perverted dictatorship.

I'm not sure that the human species is capable of living by any defined or established philosophy. Our very natures seem to make us self-destructive regardless of whatever social system is put in place.

[Dorian Gray]

67. I think pure communism is virtually impossible to instill in a state as

big as China or Russia.

[MannyGoldstein]

10. Pragmatism. The Golden Mean.

Capitalism has good points and bad points. Collective ownership (e.g., "socialism") has good points and bad points. We should learn and implement what works best, and use government wisely to prevent bad stuff.

[BobRossi]

11. Capitalism didn't fail.

Greed simply won a round, it's a long fight. Hang on tight.

[skooooo]

13. If that's true, then neither did communism.

Same thing happened.

[BlooInBloo]

17. False. Capitalism was regulated, and it won. Capitalism was deregulated, and it lost.

I know certain sorts of people want to pretend there's no difference, but it's just pretending. Or lying.

[skooooo]

21. My fellow Obama supporter..

....I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Yugoslavia, before the Soviet Union failed was actually doing pretty well. I don't buy the argument that some form of socialism, perhaps blended with a very controlled capitalism is the answer.

In other words, it's not an either or issue.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Um, it doesn't count if someone else is propping you up. LOL!

[skooooo]

39. I guess we're all in trouble then, huh?

:hi:

[Cyrano]

28. Capitalism worked from about 1945 to about 1980.

The fact is that greed is a human trait. And as long as it remains so, checks and balances must be put in place to stem its consequences. Those consequences are what most of us are suffering under today.

And your solution to overcoming this human trait is ...?

[dbonds]

12. The 3 shells

[Rebubula]

66. Nice

But...say that you are deep frozen for a hundred years, when you come out and do not know how the 3 Shells work - you will be teased mercilessly.

It could be awkward.

[BlooInBloo]

14. Regulated capitalism won, until they deregulated. This OP is dumb.

[Cyrano]

35. I am the OP. I specifically stated "unregulated" when referring to capitalism.

Nonetheless, thank you for sharing your opinion with me and of me.

[TexasProgresive]

15. My understanding of Marx is that Communism was supposed to

evolve out of the decay of capitalism. The revolutions of Russia, China and other non-capitalist societies was not a true test of his theory. I have no desire to live in a soviet style state what I would like is small scale capitalism that supports the whole population with well regulated markets, health care to be non profit and lots of other things I can think of.

[skooooo]

24. Exactly..the Soviet Union was not Marxist's..

..or Trotsky's idea of communism.

[nadinbrzezinski]

16. Ah but we were very successful with a MIXED economy back in the 50s

no, not the loving the fifties, but it is a fact that the best of both worlds worked very well and I suspect will do again

[Double T]

18. Revolutionism must be our next step.

The criminals can not be allowed to ALWAYS be in charge. The free market capitalist corporatocracy is of the criminals, by the criminals and for the criminals. Business as usual will lead to our extinction.

[Cyrano]

38. Virtually every revolution in the history of the world resulted in a new set of dictators

[Double T]

44. Extinctionism is our fate.

[safeinOhio]

19. I'd make a great king

[cobalt1999]

22. People are the problem

Come up with any system you want, but as soon as you inject people with their love of power, money, control, love, hate, laziness, etc. that system will fail.

To quote Douglas Adams:
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.

[Mr. Hyde]

26. You see, under capitalism, men exploit other men but under communism, it's just the opposite.

and that's why they both fail. Regardless, of which financial system evolves next in America, I would hope that the basic principles of Democracy are retained in the government. I would like to see an improved model of democracy that places our elected officials closer to the people(states) who elected them and which reduces the role of the federal government and its ability to waste our money and time. I think the Federal government is the cause of most of our problems, not the solution and I think that when you only have two parties to choose from, after a while, you really only have one party to choose from.

[Cyrano]

41. Peddle that crap to all the "States Rights" advocates. Follow your

line of thought and it would just be a matter of time before the return of slavery or Jim Crow. Anti-federalism and "states rights" have always been the rallying cry of those who, for more than a hundred years in this country, are trying to camouflage their racism with a thin veil of "respectability."

[Mr. Hyde]

56. I can't find anything in your post that I agree with.

I never suggested that we abolish the constitution or the bill of rights. I just think this whole "representative democracy" which concentrates our elected officials far away from the people supposedly being represented engenders the kind of corruption and deceit that we see in Washington every day. If our representatives and senators resided in their home states, they would be far more likely to represent the people who elected them to their positions as opposed to the people who pay for their lunches and buy them expensive gifts. Who would you be more likely to listen to, an angry mob of people 2000 miles away or an angry mob of people 2 miles away? And given that we have elected a black President, I think we can pretty much dispense with the racial fear mongering.

[Stinky The Clown]

29. Stinkyism

Regulated capitalism with social responsibility.

Kinda like what happens in Scandanavia

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

30. Benevolent Despotism with me as Benevolent Despot

I really, really, really think I would be a great benevolent despot and I wish you would just give me a chance. Give me forty years, and if at the end of that time you think I haven't delivered, then I would not accept another forty year term. What have you got to lose?

[guyton]

31. Finland!

Read an article a while back that talked about how they are generally happier than the rest of the planet. Turns out that they're kind of post-consumerist, in that they tax the wealthy so much that they have pretty much the same purchasing power that the vast middle class has and people aren't all tied up in beating the Jones (or staying alive).

Not an expert, but it sure made interesting reading.

[tom_paine]

33. Dinsosaur.

The alien anthropologuists will dissect it all, later.

They'll put the puzzle together.

[No.23]

34. Benevolent monarch here.

I will consider being pressed into service, if that is the will of the people.


My first two executive decrees will be:


1) everyone is encouraged to pursue their wants and desires, but only after everyone's basic needs are met; and,


2) all televisions will be immediately disposed of, and replaced with a computer with an internet connection.


My administration's motto will be a simple one (and in the words of Eugene Debs):


“While there is a lower class I am in it; while there is a criminal element I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free”


I don't have many years left, so let me know if you are in need of my services before I part.


For I have many miles to go before I sleep.


Many miles to go before I sleep.

[Oregone]

36. Moderation?

How about a moderate mixed economy (like Canada) with social democratic policies.

[ddeclue]

False premise - capitalism hasn't failed. nt

[ddeclue]

37. False premise - capitalism hasn't failed. nt

[Cyrano]

42. Go back up this thread and read some of the posts about regulated and

unregulated capitalism.

I don't know which one you're referring to, but I'd guess that it is unregulated capitalism that you believe has failed.

[dysfunctional press]

40. a mix of HEAVILY regulated capitalism and socialism would be my druthers.

socialize the risk, socialize the profit.
privatize the risk- privatize the profit.

the government should control the banks and healthcare, and public utilities should be community/publicly owned/operated.
"too big too fail" should not be allowed to happen.

[Duke Newcombe]

43. We'll never know...

There will never be pure Communism or pure Capitalism. Too much greed, too much entitlement.

[D23MIURG23]

45. Democratic City States. n/t

[No.23]

48. If by democratic city states, you mean...

a significantly more decentralized union of local states/cities, I'll :fistbump: that suggestion.

Never trusted authoritarian, centralized governments anyway.

[D23MIURG23]

49. Sounds good to me. Its a deal!

I have to say, I approve of your choice of numbers as well.

:fistbump:

[No.23]

52. Feeling's mutual, Brother/Sister 23.

Perhaps we can work towards the creation of 23 democratic city states, eh?

They'll need all the help they can get to get off to a good start.

And there's lots of good energy in...

23.

:)

[Lilith Velkor]

53. Hexagram 23: Things fall apart

The mountain rests on top of the earth.

Those above may only retain their position by giving generously to those below.

[No.23]

62. Instead of things falling apart...

which causes many to fear a catastrophic outcome...

how about shedding one's old skin, like a snake...

so that the new skin can can be take its place?

These next few years may be the years that our old skin ("the world as we know it") is shed.

So that our new skin can be in place by 2012.

Po.

[mudesi]

46. Socialism

[PerfectSage]

47. I prefer we try sadism...

...but some people prefer masochism. But at least they're pleasurable ideologies. Rather than economic ideologies.

[RagAss]

50. Onanism !

[upi402]

51. socialism = capitalism but with rules and fairness, I suppose. n/t

[cliffordu]

54. representative democracy and tightly regulated semi-capitalism....

corporations should have very few if any, rights.

[Kip Humphrey]

55. Cooperatism filled with cooporations which are

owned by employees, legally tied to their communities, and held responsible for their products and services.

[LiberalPersona]

57. neotribalism /nt

[whoneedstickets]

58. Anarchism!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TZ_9-rbslo


I wanna be anarchy!

[bird gerhl]

59. Suicide

Now that capitalism has failed, the collective imagination is finally exhausted. There is no longer any reason for us to live. Call 1.800.784.2433 if you don't believe me. Ask them what the meaning of it all is. Ask them why it's depressing you to think Sweden might be the greatest human achievement, and who will take care of your many cats after you put an end it to all.

[Deja Q]

74. You need a date far worse than I do.

:rofl:

[bottomtheweaver]

60. I don't know about Communism failing. What about

Cuba? Fidel has successfully transferred power to a successor, his brother but still, and the government of that tiny island has done quite well by its residents despite every possible illegal, immoral, undemocratic interference from its now-failed capitalist neighbor to the north.

[espiral]

63. re:

Thank you so much for saying this. You'll never know what good cheer it brought me to encounter another compañero during a time when I feel like the only one out here (DU, blogosphere, US in general) defending the Revolution. ¡Que viva el Comandante hasta muchos años en el futuro!

[bottomtheweaver]

68. thanks espiral,

I think there are many here who feel as you do. Looking forward to hearing from you! :hi:

[JI7]

61. liberal socialism

[T_i_B]

64. Communism failed. Capitalism failed. What do we try next?

How about a flame war in GD?

[saltpoint]

69. What system do the Teletubbies use? Whatever it is, it deserves our

consideration.

They seem incredibly content.

[Deja Q]

72. Well, they have televisions and have lots of tubby sex

See? That one is going at it with the Nanny... looks like Fran Drescher too, which is probably scary...

[Deja Q]

70. Capitulation

:evilgrin:

[Hugin]

73. Um, we could try a Representative Democracy.

I've heard they're pretty cool.

[Deja Q]

75. Yeah, but "American Idol" is losing ratings despite Paula's abduls...