My formerly positive views towards Minnesota are vastly diminished

[Phoebe Loosinhouse]

I always thought of Minnesota as an incredibly beautiful state that seemed somewhat progressive and enlightened. Home of the Guthrie Theater, Mary Richards and Prairie Home Companion, all the children above average, etc.

First there was the incredibly awful conduct of the police state during the RNC. Then there is the prosecutorial abuse of charging protesters with terrorism under the Minnesota Patriot Act which I don't believe is at all justified and is a misuse of the laws with an intent to silence dissent. (If there is something I am unaware of as to why it is a reasonable charge, please tell me)

And now, finally, we have Minnesota incapable of seating the person who won the recount according to the laws of the state.

I keep wondering, what the hell happened?

[proud2BlibKansan]

1. Well, since I live in Kansas, I try not to broad brush an entire state

But that's just me :)

[stillcool]

2. 9/11 and the Patriot Act...

when people are given permission to do whatever they want, they do.

[Echo In Light]

5. ...equals abundant motive i.e. implementing pre-established plans

[ogneopasno]

3. This is what happens when a recount follows the letter of the law.

Those of us who live here know the Minnesota Miracle has been a myth for many years now, much of the crap accelerated by Tim Pawlenty.

[rateyes]

4. I hear that, but I'm still

a die-hard Vikings fan.

[gratuitous]

7. You've put your finger right on it

Ever since the Vikings quit playing outdoors, Minnesota has gone to H-E-double hockeysticks in a handbasket.

Hey, makes as much sense as blaming it on taking prayer out of the public schools.

[rateyes]

9. Yep. We need a new outdoor stadium now. nt

[MineralMan]

15. No taxpayer-funded stadium for me, thanks!

Ever! I think the L.A. Vikings has a nice ring to it, frankly.

[rateyes]

17. Long term: Thousands of new jobs. Profit on the investment.

Improved infrastructure surrounding the stadium. More small business opportunities.

[Viking12]

21. Part-time, low-wage, no-benefit jobs is not economic development

There is an abundance of economic data that demonstrates that stadium does not equal economic development. It shifts and focus discretionary income into particular areas but has no discernible overall benefits.

[PVnRT]

25. Improved infrastructure? Drive by Lucas Oil Stadium in Indianapolis sometime

It still looks like the kind of neighborhood you really don't want to be in at night all alone. Few new businesses have sprouted up, and there were few new jobs associated with the stadium itself - they all just transferred over from the old dome (or they fired and replaced the old workers with newer ones to be paid less).

Teams have been selling that lie about growth and wonderfulness for decades now, and it's simply not true.

[MineralMan]

28. That's horse-puckey!

It's what they always say when they don't want to pay for their own stadium. It never works out that way. I am inalterably opposed to taxpayer dollars being used to pay for stadiums for professional teams. Either the team makes money or it does not.

Now, we want to tear down the Metrodome. Why? It still works. It's still standing. We paid for that one and now, how few years have passed before we want to replace it. And at the taxpayer's expense.

No, thank you very much. A small percentage of the taxpaying population benefits from professional sports stadiums, yet all have to pay for it. I'd much rather invest in our schools and libraries and let the businesses build their own stadiums if they're such a good deal.

Let the Vikings move to Los Angeles. Maybe they'll play better there.

[Echo In Light]

6. Problem is the average person doesn't recognize subversions of democracy...

And the M$M obviously isn't in the business of informing the citizenry as a checks and balance between power and the people, so...

[Tesha]

8. When they elected Jesse Ventura, lots of us figured out that there were more than a few...

politically naive, silly, or just plain damned-stupid voters
living among those 10,000 lakes.

Tesha

[tonysam]

10. It's Not Unique to Minnesota.

I live in Nevada, and here we have the WORST governor in the entire country, bar none.

[Tesha]

13. Oh, I make no claim it's unique to Minnesota.

It's just that the election of Ventura proved that they
weren't as immune to stupidity as many of us had
hoped ;) .

Tesha

[trotsky]

16. There were a lot of factors that went into the Ventura election.

Two of the main ones:

1) He ran against Norm Coleman - who was even more of a washrag back then and not known to many outside the Twin Cities area, and Skip Humphrey - a perfectly capable politician but whom many people felt had been riding his dad's name for too long. Plus Skip wasn't a very dynamic candidate.
2) A quirky campaign that reminded people, if not in message in style, of Wellstone's campaigns.

But all said, Ventura wasn't THAT bad of a governor. He was a fervent defender of both a woman's right to choose as well as state/church separation. The right wing religious nuts absolutely HATED him. Yeah he had plenty of stupid ideas too, like going to a unicameral legislature or approving *permanent* tax cuts pushed through by Republicans (including current gov, then state rep Timmy Pawlenty) during the salad days of the Clinton economy when they didn't want to believe the boom could ever end. But between Ventura and just about any Republican, I'd take Ventura again.

[WI_DEM]

11. You're thinking of the Minnesota that Hubert Humphrey, Gene McCarthy, Fritz Mondale, Paul Wellstone

inhabited.

[MedleyMisty]

12. Why generalize and stereotype an entire state like that?

Is there a machine in your state that they put people through when they're born or when they move there to make them all cardboard cutout cyborg stereotyped copies of each other?

If so, then you might want to sit down.

Other states don't have that, and so in other states every person is a unique individual.

[trotsky]

14. Well, in the case of Franken/Coleman, we are actually following the law to the letter.

Minnesota, unlike many other states, actually has election laws that cover just about any conceivable scenario. Al can't be declared the winner of the election until Chicklet-Teeth's legal questions are resolved. Are the Repubs exploiting this to just delay the inevitable and keep another (D) vote out of the Senate? You bet. But the law's the law, and they're sticking to it.

[gratuitous]

18. Minnesota's election law should be changed

There should be provisional seating of a candidate whose victory is certified by the state elections board, as Franken's victory has been. That way the people of the state aren't deprived of representation by bad faith challenges. For now, as long as there's a legal challenge, the will of the people is thwarted. The scenario that Minnesota law hasn't contemplated is the "incredibly sore loser" one being played out by the cynical Norm Coleman. Now that this horrible example has been fully brought forth, the state legislature should take some action so that this endless legal challenge with its ever-shifting arguments, back-tracking, agreement reneging and spurious rationales doesn't repeat itself.

[PVnRT]

24. No, there shouldn't

Imagine if it were a Democrat doing the challenges right now, with a Republican provisionally seated in Congress.

[gratuitous]

26. It's perfectly imaginable

But I don't foresee anyone on the Democratic side pursuing such a cynical, wasteful, frivolous challenge as is being done by Coleman. Coleman has shamelessly reneged on his previous stipulations and agreements, fought the same battles over ballots two and three times, even proffering contradictory legal arguments in order to bring new motions, and the court has failed to rein in his motions. Certainly anyone challenging election results is entitled to pursue all legal means available to them, but the upshot of Minnesota's failure to provide for seating of a certified winner invites the sort of mischief Coleman is indulging in and deprives the state of its representation. It also invites outside agents to fund such legal challenges when the certified victor isn't seated, further thwarting the will of the people.

Currently the system is ripe for monkey-wrenching by a conscienceless election loser, and Coleman fits the bill perfectly. Meanwhile, Minnesota limps along with only half its Senate delegation. The state legislature should make a provision for interim seating of a certified election winner, whether it's a Democrat or a Republican. The state court judges should also make prompt rulings on frivolous legal challenges whose sole purpose is delay, but that's hardly a problem unique to Minnesota, so I mention it only in passing.

[tangent90]

19. I moved away from MN a few years ago...that has to be a contributing factor.

:D

[Viking12]

22. No, it's my absence -- I've been gone for 5 years now.

I was away at grad school when Jesse got elected too. Coincidence? I think not.

[tangent90]

27. Crap, now that we've confessed, they'll blame us.

:scared:
:rofl:

[AndrewP]

20. The Repukes have made great gains here in the past 15-20 years

Unfortunately.

It really is a great divide.

Some of the most progressive people in the United States still live here, but when you go really far outstate you might as well forget it. The MSM brainwashing has done too much damage.

[Enthusiast]

23. An unbalanced media has consequences.

This is what years of right wing AM radio and Faux News have wrought. Look for worse in the future. There is no way that a citizenry can be bombarded with misinformation year after year and not have it affect them.