Why does rural America vote Republican?

[geegollygosh]

I found all these quotes on the Democratic Underground boards. There were more, but I picked the 'best':

“Someone funnier than me once said that God points his tornadoes at trailer parks for a reason.”

“That's KKKentucky for you.”

“What backwoods trailer park?... Does the RNC "Beta Test" their talking points in?”

“52% of our inbred backwoods nation thinks Bush II will be "OUTSTANDING"“

“I have tried for years and years to talk reason to these backwoods hillbillies”

“It's always some toothless backwoods hick.”

“The republicans seem to attract the uneducated ignorant illiterate hicks, while the Democrats get the educated major city smart people. That is fact.”

“Talk about lowering the bar.. these people should be in trailor parks.”


And then people ask: Why do rural working class Americans vote Repub?

Discuss?

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

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[Believing Is Art]

4. Bit too young for one of those

I'm under 1000 posts myself, so I'm probably not jaded enough.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Believing Is Art]

15. Weird? How so?

I'm pretty much here for the laughs. I've earned myself like 6 or 7 DUzy's thus far!

Not to say I don't have real opinions of my own, I'm just a pansy when it comes to online fights. Or real life fights. Well, I have a mean right hook, so mainly online fights.

[tavalon]

21. The itch to be treated as legitimate

When your post count is under 100, you know you aren't going to be listened to. And slogging along to 700 can be long and arduous but then it seems tantalizingly close and well, many end up doing those last 300 posts in a grand marathon and nothing is weirder than being on this site for 12 hours at a stretch.

[Believing Is Art]

36. So I'm illiegimate right now?

So am I like some bastard offspring of Blago and Sarah Palin?

That is a terrifying thought. A terrifying thought with fantastic hair.

[tavalon]

38. No, legitimacy comes in increments but at 1000, you can really say whatever you want

and get quite a bit of rope to hang yourself with. At 700 posts, you're more like Sonny Bono's illegitimate love child, that's all.

[Believing Is Art]

41. Okay, so in 300 posts,

I'm free to turn on Beck-praise mode.

I bet I'd still be tombstoned faster than ReaganPlusMe4Eva.

[tavalon]

46. You'll be argued with massively whereas at 100 posts,

you would have been mocked and tombstoned real fast. Once you hit 1000, people will give you a lot more rope. That's when you can bring up the meaty issues like bigotry and be given an audience. If you can find something in Beck that legitimazes his reason for continuing to suck oxygen and stay on the air, I think people would listen at least long enough to determine if you are bat shit crazy.

[auburnblu]

47. Legitimacy comes from the post content

You have a bit of an ego complex thinking post coint equals king. Since your posts in this thread have focused more on validity of a poster based on their post count instead of validity based on the actual post I would say your credibility is the one that should be questioned.

[CANDO]

189. Took me seven years to reach 1000 posts

Don't know how legit that makes someone. Guess it's all in what a person has to say and how they say it. I see an awful lot of "kicks" and they count as a post. So over all post counts can be deceiving.

[GreenTea]

176. Deleted message

[obiwan]

73. Har har har. Right on!

[Name removed]

2. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geegollygosh]

5. I'm a troll in the sense that I'm a rural liberal who is sick of this kind of thing...

why shouldn't I say something?

[TexasObserver]

8. Then you should know the right wing nature of rural areas better than most.

I grew up in a rural area, and I often visit there. Those people cannot fathom why anyone would ever object to a prayer before the football game, a Christian prayer. They cannot fathom having a club at the high school for gay kids.

[Xenotime]

88. That's obsurd. Why are those things allowed?

[TexasObserver]

151. They're allowed because Religious bigotry is a fact of life in rural areas.

Who is going to stop them from making the worship of Jesus a key element of life at football games, the bank lobby, or the public square? Ain't but one religion out there, and it is Christianity.

[Iris]

180. I remember my mom being so appalled by the prayer before the football game when we moved to South

because she had gone to Catholic school all 12 years and never witnessed such a thing at a sports event!

[TexasObserver]

204. Yes, and you'd better not remain sitting when they do, either.

But the OP doesn't understand what we're talking about! It's too complicated and mysterious for her.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geegollygosh]

11. This is sort of a test of this board.

if I was a 'freeper' I would just say so. Lately I've been really pissed off about this kind of thing coming from liberals, I want to hear what people on a self identified 'democratic' board think about it, since none of the liberals I know in person are comfortable discussing it.

In some ways I suppose it's trolling, but it's also a legitimate issue.

[Name removed]

19. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[auburnblu]

Just a bit smug aren't you

Respond to the issue. Not, "I'm superior, I have a lot of posts, therefore I set the rules." No wonder you have so many posts with such responses. If the original poster has 1 or 10,000 posts, who cares it is a valid point to raise. If it offends a few of the "I'm enlightened" crowd that is fantastic. I want every single "I'm enlightened" liberal exposed for the hateful frauds that they are. This is in response to post #20.

[tavalon]

48. Savvy

I've watched many a flame baiter do it just this way. I've also seen posters with a higher investment in our community bring up these same questions and get much more nuanced discussion.

[obiwan]

74. Play with yourself. It's safer.

[murielm99]

28. All right. I am not going to dis you, because I am a rural liberal.

I know how difficult it is. I live in a very red county.

We do have some outstanding hardworking Democrats here. Some of them are farmers. Some of them are blue collar. Actually, I can't think of many limousine liberals here. The only limos are the ones people rent to get to the airport. Most of our local Democrats are working people.

It is true that most of the farmers here are republicans. But if you go to Minnesota, most of the farmers are Democrats.

Maybe it might be easier to talk about majorities and minorities. I have met some seemingly redneck types who are Democrats. What I try to do is convert people. The racists are hopeless. But some of the others can be appealed to on the basis of what we have in common. Republicans are losing their jobs and homes, too. They want insurance, and they care about their families. Look for the similarities and try to make them think. Don't get sidetracked by hot button issues.

[wolfgangmo]

175. Excellent advice

And speaking as a constituent of Michelle 'whack-a-mole' Bachmann I can tell you that not all rural minnesotans are dems.

The key is to find out what they care about and point out a few facts and ask a few questions. AND THEN LISTEN.

I've made some headway this way.

[obiwan]

71. Go for it. We all start with zero posts.

It took me from 2004 to now to get from zero to 1000+ posts. Most of all, be yourself and speak your mind. Some folks here are as paranoid about things as they are at Free Republic. Along the way I sometimes get flamed royally. But all that's survivable, cause this is the Internet and people can't jump out of the screen to beat you up if they don't like what you say.

Hey, I'm liberal and spent 25 years of my life growing up in the Midwest. Man, that was frustrating. I have a real low tolerance for deliberate ignorance, and I suspect you do too. You can't appreciate what it's like until you've been there.

Finding the truth sets you free.

And some liberals are real uncomfortable with being in power. They have been under the right's thumb for so long I think some have become permanent pessimists. Not me- fuck the right; they sure left a deep pile of shit for us to dig out of. Roll up your sleeves- it's gonna take a while to dig ourselves out.

BTW, when you have the chance, check out freerepublic.com. Highly entertaining, yet at the same time highly disturbing. Like Fox News, it's Comedy Central for liberals!

And welcome to DU.

[CANDO]

196. It's really a two way street.

I was raised in the Alabama section of Pennsylvania. You've heard of James Carville's geographical "T" in PA? Pittsburgh and Philly with a large "T" in the center represented by people like those from Alabama. Well, it's true! I can't begin to describe the utter ignorance of the people where I'm from toward anything "big city". Hell, they want to kick Philly and Pittsburgh out of their state! They just can't accept all that red area doesn't out-vote those little specks of blue. I like to tell them they need to be for voting rights for livestock. Maybe then they can match up the votes from the big cities.

[obiwan]

75. You sound paranoid and/or jaded.

We should welcome new members. If this new member is a Freeper, which I doubt, the moderator will deal with them.

Relax!

[NYC_SKP]

10. Please do, tell us more, geegollygosh.

:shrug:

[Believing Is Art]

13. Well I grew up in "KKKentucky," myself

And to a large extent, it's true that many people in the southeast cling to guns, God, and/or commercialized patriotism. Maybe it should piss me off when people assume I'm conservative, dumb, and inbred because I'm from the south, but statistically, they'd be right - on the first part anyways. Though the quality of public education in Kentucky might give credence to the second assumption as well.

The negative stereotype rhetoric cuts both ways. The hillbilly, inbred stuff pisses off some liberals; yours is not the first post I've seen on the topic. No, liberals don't win any votes if this is how we characterize rural America, but conservatives don't win any votes by claiming anyone who doesn't agree with them lockstep is a pink gay Muslim atheist violent pansy.

[geegollygosh]

16. But doesn't the left pride itself on being more "open"?

Just because the right stereotypes others doesn't give us the 'right' too, at least not if anyone wants to actually get anything done.

[Believing Is Art]

33. "Open" to different lifestyles, religions, nationalities, etc.

The left, in general, does not have "you're with us or against us" mentality of the right when it comes to homosexuals, Muslims, atheist and so on. I'm not sure that's the same thing as open.

I also think there's a difference in what people say when joking and what they really believe. I know that's the case with me and some of my real life friends, but I can't speak for DU in general.

As I said elsewhere, I limit the rural jokes to situations where I think they'd be acceptable . . . which means it's usually among friends from rural places who make similar self-depreciating jokes. I may have slipped and made some on here, but I can't recall any. Many people find this an acceptable forum for such humor, and some disagree. *shrug*

As for anything getting done, convincing rural America to vote for democrats will take a lot more than a cease and desist on all hillbilly stereotypes. I tried in high school and was pretty much ostracized - and I never made one disparaging joke about rural America.

[tekisui]

107. Open to alternative viewpoints. Not open to bigotry,racism

and intolerance.

[geegollygosh]

130. But this whole discussion proves that we are open to bigotry as long as we don't agree with someone

[TexasObserver]

152. You speak only for yourself and of yourself.

Your bigotry is showing.

Why do you hate urban progressives?

[geegollygosh]

163. I don't. I have been an urban progressive at different times in my life.

Using trailer park and backwoods jokes to marginalize a group of people is bigotry. That is what I hate. Not all progressives do this. You, on the other hand, seem to feel completely comfortable with it.

[TexasObserver]

179. As I said, you speak only for yourself, so stop using the royal "WE."

You're one angry rural person (allegedly), attacking progressives on a progressive board.

Of course, I don't believe a word you've written.

[Two Americas]

285. I disagree

The OP is a Democrat, and can say "we" as far as I am concerned.

The OP speaks for me, and for millions of other Democrats. MOST Democrats do not share your stereotypes nor your condescending and contemptuous attitude, not your generalizations about people, nor your definition of what a Democrat is.

WE - as Democrats - have a problem, and the OP is right. It is you who should stop speaking for all Democrats or all progressives.


...

[auburnblu]

302. I agree with the original poster

The original poster says posting things like "Trailer Trash" is a problem. The fact that is getting questioned shows there are a number of "I'm enlightened" fraud liberals on the board. Why shouldn't anyone have a problem with that and why don't you?

[mitchum]

239. BOILERPLATE RIGHT WING TALKING POINT

[auburnblu]

303. Who cares

Calling someone trailer trash is wrong. You seem to take issue with the fact that the original poster brings up the problem and seem to take no issue with the problem itself.

[hfojvt]

61. here's the deal

there are 43,806,520 or so posts that have been made on DU. You can cherry-pick 20 or so that are negative towards rural people and trailer parks and use that to 'prove' the rightwing talking point that "Democrats hate rural people" but it still comes across as somebody who is just trying to prove a rightwing talking point. Most of the people who do that are rightwingers.

Sure there might be coastal people here with contempt for "flyover country" maybe some big city folk here who think that rural areas (meaning any city with fewer than 250,000) are hopelessly backward and otherwise disgusting, but it's not universal among Democrats, some of whom happen to be in small towns. A few comments among millions do not prove that point.

[Enthusiast]

64. I'm a rural liberal

Maybe we should start a club. :fistbump:

[Echo In Light]

93. Rural leftist here

[ColbertWatcher]

65. But, why are you a liberal, if you are in the same area and hear the same things?

It has to be more than lacking a sense of humor.

DISCLAIMER:

I live in LA, but I am not an actor, a waiter or in a cult.

[screembloodymurder]

66. You have every right, and a point.

When you insult, you alienate. Progressives need to realize that an insult is not an argument.

[uppityperson]

244. Here are some other quotes I found on DU...(ed to add:all yours in this topic)

-I'm a troll
-I was a 'freeper'
-In some ways I suppose it's trolling
-This whole discussion proves that we are open to bigotry as long as we don't agree with someone
-There is absolutely no willingness to criticize internal bigotry within "progressives"
-You're delusional
-Red states are not inherently red...they are that way for a reason
-Are you new to reasoning?
-I did misquote you, but your point still makes no sense.
-I don't know the background of anyone on this forum though, so I probably shouldn't have made the assumption that they were upper middle class and white.
-I feel much more uncomfortable talking about my socio-economic status at my liberal, hippie college than at home.
-I never said that all rural Americans vote republican. I said that there was that stereotype.
-

ps. Did you know that some of we libruls also live in trailer homes? Or live rural? Why assume that "rural working class people" are the opposite of "upper middle class white liberals"? Why are you assuming all that? Bigotry of your own?

pps. "I'll admit that most of the posters were criticized", yet you hold them up to represent DU and "liberals"? Good grief.

pps. Don't bother replying negatively to me because I don't care about you. And I am one of those who criticize stereotyping people.

ppps. From reading what you write, and how you reply, including the quotes at the top, I think you are the one with the problem.

[ColesCountyDem]

256. I'm sick of it, too!

Yes, I was born, reared and still live in a very rural part of 'flyover country'. Yes, I speak the king's English, but with a distinct 'rural accent'. No, I don't wear designer clothes or keep up with the latest fashion trends, etc., etc., etc. . I am, however, well-educated, and I resent the hell out of MANY liberals and progressives who a.) automatically deduct 25 points from my I.Q. as soon as they hear my accent and b.) assume I'm some sort of frothing-at-the-mouth, Bible-banging neocon who thinks Ronald Reagan was a god and that Newt Gingrich is one of his disciples (this latter may be true, minus the RR = god garbage ).

There are many, MANY liberals out here, although we do tend to be outnumbered, and many of our fellow liberals and progressives DO tend to piss us off when we happen to disagree on certain issues, to wit: 'firearms are evil', 'you're idiots because you go to church/temple/synagogue/whatever'; we occasionally have this annoying habit of saying things like 'What a great idea! How do you plan to fund it?', too.

I'm not trying to stir the pot here, folks, just asking some of you to respect who we are, and realize that it's completely unproductive to let your idea of ideological 'perfection' become the very real enemy of pragmatic good.

Thanks for hearing me out. I love you all, even when you piss me off. As Will Rogers famously said, "I am not a member of any organized party — I am a Democrat." .

:hi::grouphug::dem:

Edit: typo

[auburnblu]

305. Good point

The next time someone on DU acts superior to you simply because you're from a rural area have an idea. Reply and say, congrats on having an Ivy League degree that's impressive and if they respond that they don't respond saying, I'm sorry you really can't be that bright in this world without an Ivy League degree guess you're no better off than a dumb rural guy like me.

I've had many assume I'm a racist simply because I have a southern accent, I'm with you on being tired of getting grief for it and assumptions being made.

[ColesCountyDem]

308. Preach on!

:hi:

[DeschutesRiver]

315. Born rural, moved to the city, moved back to really remote rural

both of us are lawyers too, so there is no lack of education. I have many OK relatives, and dh was born in Kansas. But yeah, people just love a good stereotype.

This is a complete ranching cowtown we live nearby, but we find people who like Obama in the unlikest places, at least people and places that some would automatically and incorrectly assume are republicans. I admit to some surprise myself. Dh was at the ammo counter of Bi-Mart, discussion turned to Obama, and the guy helping him says thank goodness he is a smart man, but better still he is practical. Thinks he has a hell of a mess to clean up, but is behind his efforts to do so.

Yesterday, daughter of a local feed store, hard core rough country people, she is in her 30s - dh is chatting about the bad economy, which is a big topic here. She begins to praise Obama because he is intelligent, so unlike the last pres, and says he has her support because our problems are so large that if we didn't have someone smart finally elected, we'd be toast.

Because of the typical country stereotyping, the appearance and ways of these two people, and where they work/how they speak/how they dress, there is no way that the typical liberal from the nearest big city who just passes through would do anything other than knee jerk react and never guess they were talking with praise of Obama as smart and practical and the most likely to eventually pull us out of this.

We do have those other rural types - I don't hang around where they hang around, and the few I suspect of being of "the type" don't speak it out loud around us (maybe that exempts them from the frothing part of the definition). Those few we kind of scare, because we don't fit into a neat stereotype ourselves out here.

[TexasObserver]

6. Because those comments you find offensive are often true.

Rural people tend to be much more closed minded about things more civilized people take for granted, such as gay rights or freedom from religion. Rural communities lack the diversity of experience and thought that exists in urban areas.

THAT is why rural areas go red. They are typically like the closed minded attitudes that the GOP espouses and symbolizes.

[geegollygosh]

14. Diversity of experience and thought?

I've lived in Chicago, also. I loved it. But don't tell me that urbanites and suburbanites are somehow free from prejudice, close mindedness. This post has proved to me that (among the people who have posted) there is absolutely no willingness to criticize internal bigotry within "progressives".

[TexasObserver]

20. Yes. That's exactly right. Surely you do not dispute that.

You present a false premise; i.e., that if I state urban areas are more diverse than rural areas I have stated they are free of prejudice. That kind of nonsensical argument may work with the painfully ignorant, but it won't work here.

You asked a question and I gave you the answer. Now, you're whimpering about the answer because it isn't what you wanted.

Your implication that the reason rural people vote Republican is because people on DU cast aspersions on them is complete and utter bullshit, the kind of thing no serious adult would ever posit. Rural areas have been voting GOP since long before DU ever opened. They vote right wing because they ARE right wing. Is that simple enough for you?

[geegollygosh]

30. I'm asserting that diversity in itself does not equate 'open mindedness'

Urban and suburban areas are often very stratified by race and class. Living in a city with a racial diversity does not mean that racism does not exist. Rather, racism is worked into the overall system and people can pretend that it doesn't exist.

My original post simply implied that treating a huge population of the country like trash just makes liberals look like elitists and bigots. Clearly, you have no problem with that. I'm personally more interested in moving forward-- that's why I consider myself 'progressive'.

Of course, these attitudes are not the only reason rural America votes red. I wasn't suggesting that. But you're delusional if you think that it is helping win anyone over.

[TexasObserver]

40. Rural America votes RED because it is RED.

You're delusional if you think it's because they have their feelings hurt that big city liberals say things about them.

Your outrage seems phony to me.

[geegollygosh]

45. Politics come from somewhere

As I stated in the last post, I don't believe that attitudes toward rural Americans are what makes them vote red.

But, conservative politics don't just leak into the water in the midwest and south. Conservative politicians don't magically capture the attention of rural voters, or they didn't originally. Red states are not inherently red...they are that way for a reason, and no it's not because everyone born there magically has a lower IQ. The left completely writes off huge sections of the US as hopeless and not worth their time. Of course that has an impact.

[Believing Is Art]

54. Hmm, actually it is the water.

Not from the tap, but glacial ice. The industrialized north paved the way for more urban areas while the agricultural south remained rural. That has been a huge cultural influence, one that has led to close-knit and religious communities in rural regions. It has its upsides - friendliness and hospitality, but its downsides are the reasons those areas remain red. The Republicans exploit this. They tell these rural Red voters that they are the real America, that they're good God-fearing patriots. Taxes and bogus wars don't matter when the party has won their hearts with the wedge issues and ego-petting.

I don't think anyone would argue that it helps when liberals make stereotyped jokes; it obviously doesn't. But it's not the main reason rural areas go red, and DU isn't trying to court rural Americans. It's not trying to court anyone.

You have every right to be upset at region-bashing humor. Some of it here is good-natured (or at least no malice intended), some if it isn't. I happen to be thick-skinned on this issue, but it's perfectly understandable that others wouldn't be. I'm admittedly thin-skinned on others and I tend to avoid responding on those subjects.

I agree that region-bashing is a bad idea when trying to convert voters. I don't see DU as a vehicle to change the minds of conservatives.

[geegollygosh]

57. and the left ignores their existance

The right tells them those things because they actually take the time to talk to them, as an exploitative force or not. The left doesn't even acknowledge that they exist (besides passing remarks about how backwards they are).

I don't think I'm particularly thin skinned. I can joke about my background and myself with anyone any day. But it's different when so called 'progressives' do it, and refuse to acknowledge that it is the same bigotry and close mindedness they claim to be against.

[Believing Is Art]

59. Yes, they were ignored for a long time

Dean and his 50-state strategy are a step towards righting that wrong. Rome wasn't built in a day and I really hope Kaine continues what Dean started.

Some liberals are elitists and show the same bigotry. Some are just joking. *Most* of what I've seen here seems to be joking, but without context or personally knowing the poster, it's really hard to call. I doubt many rural Republicans read this board, and I would hope that the backwards comments don't extend to conversation with rural Republicans. If you want to know if DU is a community of liberal middle-class elitists, all I can tell you is that from my experience the answer is no.

[Heidi]

67. Your accusations throughout this thread of widespread bigotry among progressives

is reprehensible. You don't seem to want to truly discuss what you claim is a problem within the progressive movement; nor have you acknowledged that over more than 20 million DU posts since 2001, all you can offer as evidence of our wholesale bigotry is a handful of posts with no links.

[obiwan]

77. I don't know about "widespread" but ther's definitely bigotry at DU.

Lotsa children here.

We need thinkers.

[Kalyke]

84. They are pretty widespread on this board.

I'm Southern and all I hear is how stupid I must be. I see a lot of bigotry against Southerners - which includes us Southern liberals - on this board and other progressive boards.

:shrug:

[Heidi]

90. It's against the rules and should be alerted when you see it.

I don't like it either, Kalyke. I was born in Arkansas and raised in Oklahoma (with a bit of my childhood) in Kentucky. When I see region bashing, I alert it and let the Mods deal with it. :hug:

[Kalyke]

97. Doesn't work.

I alerted on a whole thread the other day because the thread was nothing but flame bait.

The story in the OP was accurate, but presented in such a way that led to most of the comments being about how stupid we are down here, how racist (like Southerners have a patent on that sort of thing) and how we're bassackwards.

The thread stayed. Alerting didn't work. :(

But, thanks for the hug, anyway.

I'm in Tennessee, where the only Democrat running for governor is a millionaire businessman no one's ever heard of. x(

[Two Americas]

276. indeed

Unfortunately, for too many people, especially upscale and gentrified people from the northern suburbs, identifying as liberal or progressive has little if anything to do with politics, as they are often the most conservative people in the country on matters of power and economics, but rather is part of establishing a personal identity as a superior and enlightened individual. Looking down at the rest of the population IS liberalism, what it means to be a liberal, the whole point of being a liberal for them.

Funny that people here are saying that we are wrong to point out the stereotyping and bigotry, not by denying it, but rather by claiming that the stereotypes are true (!) and the contempt and arrogance therefore justified.


...

[wolfgangmo]

188. Rush broadcasts is all rural areas

at 50,000 freaking watts. That is enough to microwave a chicken at 100 paces in about a second.

Of course rural areas listen to him. He is often the only voice in the area.

[TexasObserver]

148. That's bullshit. They're red because they are rightwing in their politics.

Apparently, you've very new to politics.

[geegollygosh]

149. Saying 'They're right wing because they're right wing' doesn't actually adress ANY causes of beliefs

Are you new to reasoning?

[TexasObserver]

157. I said BECAUSE THEY ARE RIGHTWING IN THEIR POLITICS.

Now you've started lying, instead of simply misstating. Please stop lying.

Are you new to reading?

[geegollygosh]

159. ... and "right wing" is a label given to a specific set of political beliefs...

I did misquote you, but your point still makes no sense.

[TexasObserver]

177. Rightwing: Hate Gays. Hate Foreigners. Hate liberals. Hate feminists. Hate science.

Will you continue to pretend that the term "rightwing politics" is simply too confusing and complicated for you to comprehend?

[geegollygosh]

195. Okay... how aout this

"They Hate Gays. Hate Foreigners. Hate liberals. Hate feminists. Hate science. because they Hate Gays. Hate Foreigners. Hate liberals. Hate feminists. Hate science." is as pointless as saying "The sky is blue because it is cerulean."

It means nothing. It answers nothing. You keep saying 'THEY'RE RIGHT WING BECAUSE THEY'RE RIGHT WING' like it means something. When I press you to tell me what new insight that brings to the conversation, you act like I don't know what 'right wing' means. WHY do people hold the beliefs that they do?

[tekisui]

227. The right wing hates those things because they are ignorant bigots.

They have been brainwashed by various defenders of the status quo, and they bought it.

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A FEW POSTS ON THE INTERNET.

[Two Americas]

260. nonsense

Suburbia is as conservative as rural areas are - in some ways much more so. There are no stronger defenders of the status quo anywhere then there are right here. That is played out here every day and is right out in plain view.

While DU dos not reflect the general population - it is skewed toward the upper 10% income bracket, and to white suburbia - it most definitely does reflect the relatively upscale suburban people who dominate the party at all levels, and that is the face of the party and liberalism that many in the general public see. When "a few posts on the internet" express the exact same things that people do offline, then it is not correct to excuse what is said here because it has no influence.

The bigotry and racism is just as bad in the northern suburbs as it is anywhere else in the country, it just takes a more sophisticated and genteel forms.

"We are the superior enlightened people and the rest of you are a bunch of knuckle-dragging rednecks" is bad politics, stupid politics, even were it true.


...

[Two Americas]

262. not true

This is simply not true. Rural people are less conservative on matters of economics and power - which is what politics are about - then most suburban liberals are.

[obiwan]

76. Rural America votes red because of IGNORANCE.

It's relatively easy to get an ignorant person to vote against their own interests.

People who are deliberately ignorant like others to tell them what to think because it's easier than trying to reason it out.

Lack of access to complete and accurate information and social isolation has a lot to do with it, not to mention a complete lack of progressive agenda in the local media, and a constant bombardment of right wing talking points by the local media. It is true that a lot of media reporters have a liberal bent. Media OWNERS, however (particularly in rural areas), rarely are. They are usually conservative, and they are the ones who set the editorial tone of a media outlet.

Growing up in the Midwest, I can personally attest that there is almost NO progressive media. When you only hear a conservative point of view your whole life, it stands to reason that you will tend to be conservative, particularly if you do not know any other point of view exists.

To sum up, rural America votes red because that's all they know.

Urban attitudes and the DU have NOTHING to do with it.

Please do not confuse stupidity with ignorance. Stupidity is an inability to think or reason. Ignorance is a deliberate disregard of fact.

People who are stupid are often ignorant as well, but plenty of otherwise intelligent people are ignorant.

[Kalyke]

89. But it's not deliberate on the part of the rural voter.

He or she often doesn't know there is another viewpoint, as you pointed out, so how can the rural voter deliberately disregard a fact they've never been exposed to hearing?

I agree that it's ignorance on the rural voter's behalf, but I don't consider it deliberate on their part. On the part of the media owner, sure, but not the voter.

[auburnblu]

298. Internet not available in rural areas

Its 2009, perhaps rural areas actually do have the internet. The heck I say. Its not China, Daily Kos, DU, Huffington Post are not blocked in rural areas in the U.S. And maybe some of them read posts like yours and say okay, that person thinks I'm ignorant simply because of where I live. So yep, your attitude does have something to do with it.

[wolfgangmo]

185. Actually some do take offense.

I love your icon and watch the show when I can. Many of my rural friends and relatives hate him with a passion. They feel that he makes fun of them.

People with stupid opinions don't like to feel stupid.... It doesn't make sense to me, but there you have it.

[Two Americas]

310. no it isn't

I have been there. It is more green than anything - at least in the Spring and summer.

[Two Americas]

274. that is not supportable

First, there is no "they" as you claim here. Rural areas often go 40-49% Democratic.

Rural people do often vote against modern liberalism, more so then they vote for Republicans or have a right wing philosophy. There is no such thing as a right wing philosophy, as far as that goes. The contemptuous and arrogant attitudes that are being expressed here - and DU reflects what happens offline - is in fact a prime reason for why rural people reject modern liberalism, and in my opinion they are justified in that.

Politics are not a matter of what people "are" - an identity - and that approach to politics is common among upscale suburbanites and is a component of modern liberalism that many people resent and reject. For too many gentrified "progressives" their politics are more about their sense of superiority and entitlement - their personal identity and a fashion statement - than anything else.

Yes - most definitely yes - the attitudes of many modern liberals, as represented right here on this thread, are a reason for rural people to resent and resist the Democratic party.

Recap -

- There is no "they" and it is contrary to the principles and ideals of the party to make such generalizations.

- Politics is not an identity, not what people "are."

- Rural areas have many Democrats, and the pretty red and blue maps lead people to make false assumptions.

- The arrogant, condescending and contemptuous attitudes of many upscale suburban liberals are pervasive, reflect bigotry, have little if anything to do with politics, and are a barrier to success for the party.

- There is no right wing "philosophy."

- Bigotry and racism is no more common in rural areas then in suburban areas.

- On true political issues of economics and power, liberal and progressive suburbanites are often vastly more conservative than rural people, and can be the most conservative people in the country.


...

[Believing Is Art]

23. That is doubtless true for some

But this is a democratic board. I don't think most people here see DU as an outreach attempt. The people who post here are already liberals. If I were to talk politics with someone back home, I wouldn't call them a redneck idiot for voting republican. In most cases, I wouldn't even think that (at least not the redneck part, idiot, eh . . .).

Making fun of rural America may not be PC, but it's nothing new and it's not limited to liberals. It may be more common with the left because rural America tends to be red, much like dirty hippie jokes are more common with the right.

If you see a joke or stereotype here you don't like, respond to it. You'll be neither the first nor last DUer to take issue with this.

[tavalon]

39. Exactly!

We engage in the same kind of gallows humor here that I see at the hospital. We are 100% there for our patients but then decompression time comes and well, you just wouldn't want to be there. We aren't recruiting to the Democratic Party from this board. We letting off steam about the stupidities that we're dealing with out there.

[tavalon]

26. You think you've learned that but what you've actually learned

is that we will only lay ourselves bare for our fellow patriots and we don't know that you actually are one. You are getting the cold shoulder of the low post count. If you're still here in a year or two and ask this same question, the same way, you'll get a whole different set of information. Rural folk are suspicious of outsiders until they get to know them. DUers are similar in that aspect.

[Raskolnik]

132. Were you being condescending intentionally?

Rural people tend to be much more closed minded about things more civilized people take for granted

So people living in more rural areas are less "civilized" than those in urban areas. I see.


edit typo

[wolfgangmo]

181. If I may float a theory

Farmers are VERY busy. VERY.

The repubs tend to talk in small soundbites. Unless you have the time to sit and think about what they are saying, not to mention the educational background to analyze it, the soundbites will sound logical and make sense.

Also, if there is no-one around with a different opinion or experience, then who is to say you are wrong?

[Two Americas]

271. lots of farmers vote Democratic

People look at those pretty red and blue maps and form these strange stereotypical ideas based on that.

In most "red" areas 40-49% of the people vote Democratic.

I worked in a campaign in the Midwest to turn rural counties Democratic in the midterms. In Michigan we were successful in every rural district, where the Republicans had been winning for decades. We did that by talking traditional New Deal left wing economics. When suburban liberals asked what they could do to help, we told them "stay away!" That is because they often expressed things like what you just said here. The rural Midwest has gone blue. It will stay blue if the party pursues left wing economic policies. If the upscale suburban "economically conservative socially liberal" people gain control of the party, we will lose rural and blue collar people again.

As clumsy as the OP has been, and as unschooled as she is in using the proper urbane and sophisticated "progressive speak," there are dozens and dozens of posts on this thread that illustrate the arrogant and condescending attitudes that have crept into the party, and those attitudes are a serious barrier to expanding the party and defeating the right wingers.

Your attempt at explaining why farmers might vote Republican is a perfect illustration of the problem.


...

[Smith_3]

12. It works both ways.

Many people who post such comments have grown up in specific areas and had their share of experiences.

[geegollygosh]

17. Okay, but many of these comments are downright sick.

For instance: "Someone funnier than me once said that God points his tornadoes at trailer parks for a reason." Right. Of course that's hilarious, especially considering that it's much more likely that people will die when a tornado hits a trailer than when it hits a house.

[obiwan]

80. You are NOT a Freeper because you speak coherently ...

...and in complete sentences, with no misspelling, and apparently you can reason as well.

This is beyond the ability of most posters I see at FreeRepublic.

Now, let's see your knuckles.

[Gormy Cuss]

122. I challenge you to post links to all of the quotes in your OP.

Why? Because in nearly every case I predict that replies in the same thread brought those posters to task for their sad stereotypes. I say that because I'm one of many around here who always slams back when we see someone post a "trailer trash" type comment. BTW I'm a stereotypical coast dweller--lived on both of them, always in stick-built housing.

The question of why some feel the need to belittle lower income or rural areas is a good one, but the better one is why do red areas vote for the party that is LEAST likely to give them material support when they need it? I don't think it's because they see Democrats making fun of them as hayseeds. If they cared about that they couldn't vote Republican either.

[geegollygosh]

124. I'll admit that most of the posters were criticized...

(if you still want me to post the links I can)

My point was not that every liberal says disparaging things about trailer trash. It was that there is a very real attitude shown some people on this board and the larger progressive movement to be at best dismissive and at worst downright offensive to a large portion of the US population, and that this attitude *when it occurs* is largely as a result of classism and regionalism.

[Gormy Cuss]

127. But is it classism and regionalism principally?

I tend to think it's more a reflection of the same sort of insular life experiences that drives some rural people to be conservative Republicans. It's reacting from one's limited worldview. The most open minded people that I've known in life tend be well read, well traveled, or both. The former sometimes speaks to education, although there are many well read people whose formal education ended without a high school diploma -- they had good teachers. The latter sometimes means living in someplace different from the place one is raised, whether that is moving to an urban area or moving to a rural area or to a different region or country. I'm sure there are other factors that play into it, but these are just the ones that come to mind.

[geegollygosh]

131. I think there are other factors, but yes, I do consider it mostly classism and regionalism

Being well read and having access to education is largely dependent upon class. Being well traveled *absolutely* is enabled by belonging to a higher socio-economic class.

[Gormy Cuss]

134. So natives of rural areas can't get a good education and can't be well read?

IMHO that's perilously close to a stereotype. As I wrote before, being well read is a function of the quality of education, not just education level. It's elitist to assume that only the college educated, or those from expensive suburbs can be well read (and yes, some do think just that.)

But let's talk about access to education. If one is comparing primary and secondary schools I doubt that rural public education is inferior to urban public education yet the more urbanized the community the more likely that voters self-identify as Democrats. Why is that?

I'm challenging you on your presumption that it's principally classism and regionalism because those are stereotypes too -- that Democrats and progressives are a bunch of latte-sipping elitists. I think it's simplistic to reduce the biases that way.

[Two Americas]

284. yes

Urban and rural people do not have the advantages and privilege that suburban people do, and do not have equal access to eduation.

[PA Democrat]

237. DU has almost 140,000 members and there have been millions of posts

made over the years. A few offensive posts are not representative of the whole. I'd suggest when you see something like that, speak up, alert on the post, put the poster on ignore. But don't paint all of DU with a broad brush because of the comments of a few.

[Two Americas]

273. not so

The bigotry and stereotyping against rural people and people in the South is pervasive. Orgies of condescension and contempt often erupt here. We see it right on this thread. The comments the OP quotes are not unusual, and the number of people objecting to them when they do appear is small.

[obiwan]

79. That's true.

Sounds like you speak from experience, and so do I.

[Heidi]

18. Region-bashing is against the DU Rules. If you really care to affect change,

you should alert on the referenced posts instead of starting a thread about them. :hi:

[geegollygosh]

22. I don't want to "report", I want to draw attention to a larger issue

[Heidi]

29. Okay, well, good luck with that.

I think we all know that there's bigotry in all demographics. I would expect there to be less bigotry among Dems/progressives/liberals but alerting is DU's sanctioned method of dealing with bigoted posts by members.

[Joe the Liberal]

24. Read "Whats the matter with Kansas?" n/t

[tavalon]

27. I got the name of the book wrong in my post

Thanks! That's the right book.

[geegollygosh]

31. I have... I wasn't suggesting that these attitudes are the only reason...

just that they are something that people need to work on.

[beac]

296. Spending your first day on the board scolding members about "what they need to work on"

is not a great way to earn respect, as I'm sure you must be realizing by now.




*edited b/c I realized that you actually started the OP on your FIRST day here, not your second, as I had previously believed, which makes it an even poorer strategy on your part.

[MrSlayer]

25. Because a lot of them are religiously insane.

God trumps everything with these people. Hating gays and restricting other people from choosing what to do with their own bodies is more important to them than whether or not they are being plundered by the rich elites, whether or not the budget will be balanced or whether or not they have a job. They are also quick to swallow any lie offered as long as its wrapped in a flag. Jingoism and religious fundamentalism go hand in hand. In short many of them are gullible, bigoted and afraid of progress of any sort. The Republican party is perfect for those sorts and that's who they aim their message toward.

It has nothing to do with what people write on a message board that 99.9% of them do not read or even know about.

[geegollygosh]

34. You're fooling yourself if you think that rural working class people

don't know that many upper middle class white liberals think they are ignorant, ugly, and backwards.

[MrSlayer]

42. But why should that matter?

Why should what a blue-collar city construction worker like me thinks of their lifestyle matter when it comes to balancing a budget, starting wars or making sure that we and not the super rich get the tax cuts? It makes no sense to vote against your own personal interests because city dwellers think you are backward. All that does is prove us right. I don't vote Democratic because country people think I'm a city slicker. That's a ridiculous mentality.


No, I think religion is the major reason. They are tricked by the Republican charlatans that use faith against them.

[hfojvt]

62. well the last time I voted Republican was in 1996

the Democratic candidate was Paul Soglin, mayor of Madison. I lived in a small town about fifty miles from Madison. Soglin ignored my town during the campaign. The question is whether it serves my personal interests to vote for a candidate who blows off my whole county.

Of course, one problem is that Klug, although he talked like a sensible moderate Republican, just went to Washington and voted in lockstep with Gingrich.

Another issue might be with the farm bill. I thought the voting pattern was curious. Harkin, a Democrat from Iowa voted for it, but so did Grassley, a Republican from Iowa, Republicans from Nebraska voted for it, but curiously Republicans from Kansas were against it. Who else was against it? Democrats like Ted Kennedy and Lautenberg from New Jersey.

There have been rebuttals to "What's the matter with Kansas?" that point out, that especially in the Clinton era, the difference in economic policy between Democrats and Republicans is not that great. Clinton ran as a tax cutter and a fiscal conservative and promised to 'reform' welfare. Thus, if there is, seemingly, not a huge economic difference, then social issues become the deciding factor. The same thing happened in 2000 as Bush was widely hailed by the M$M as a moderate, a compassionate conservative, not that much different from Gore, except on the issues of guns, gays, and abortion.

[Kalyke]

102. Not really.

I was a reporter for a small, local daily for many years. What upset the locals was when wealthy Northerners would visit, love it and then MOVE down here to avoid the high taxes. The first thing they'd do is come to the county commission meetings and then complain about how they didn't have this service or that service. Well, if they provided them, taxes wouldn't be so low.

That influences rural voters more than their ministers preaching hate.

But, I still contend that the No. 1 reason more rural citizens vote Republican is because they aren't allowed to hear any Democratic voices on the talk radio channels they listen to on their commutes into the city for work.

[tavalon]

44. Who are those liberal elite you keep speaking of?

I hope you didn't catch that cold from Sean Hannity. Every politician, Democratic and Republican are rich - they don't get elected without being in the club. They are the only elite in our party (well, a few hollywood stars I suppose) and the rest of us are middle class to working class and all spaces in between.

The bankers are republican, almost to a man/woman. Lawyers split about 20/80 towards the republicans. Police are a motley crew and so on. The only Republicans who don't make any sense are the poor ones. They aren't treated with respect by their party and are actually being used horribly by their party. Our party would get them better tax cuts, better healthcare, better living situations but the Republicans are masters at making them think we're mocking them and want to make their lives harder. Hell, we brought 'em the 40 hr workweek!

We get frustrated because it seems if they would just think things through, they would never, ever vote Republican, but every year the Republicans trot out their wedge issues and these people, seemingly without two thoughts bumping around in their heads, dutifully throw away their children's futures while making the world safe from gay marriage. It's fucked up.

[geegollygosh]

49. I never used the word elite...

at least not in that post and I don't think I ever used it in the discussion. Of course there are "elites" in every party, and I certainly don't believe that the Republicans are 'the working mans party'. I simply am saying that much of the hostility toward rural working class conservatives, in my experience, comes from upper middle class people from urban and suburban backgrounds.

I don't know the background of anyone on this forum though, so I probably shouldn't have made the assumption that they were upper middle class and white.

[TexasObserver]

60. You use the language of the right, not the left.

When you use terms and phrases to describe us that we don't often use ourselves, it causes us to doubt you and the things you say.

It's also curious that your maiden voyage at DU is complaining about how some comments you've found and compiled offend you as a purportedly rural progressive. All that crap you have to put up with as a liberal in a rural area, and THIS is your primary complaint?!

[Two Americas]

289. it is my primary complaint

You may not see this as an important issue, but it is certainly a legitimate one.

[Iris]

192. so, (I'll ask again), they vote against their own best interests

because someone thinks badly of them?

And I guess I have another question for you - Do really think the educated don't realize that the rural working class resent them for their educations and look for any way they can find to disparage "book learning and such"?

[Two Americas]

286. "them???"

"A lot of them are religiously insane?"

"These people?"

Democrats. Democrats are saying these things.

People do hear the sentiments being expressed by you and others here. It is the only face of liberalism that many people ever see, and that is very destructive to the fortunes of the party. The comments here on DU are typical and representative of a faction of modern liberals, an aggressive and domineering faction, and people do not need to read DU to hear them. The OP is correct.

For many rural people, they cannot see how liberals being in power does a damned thing to stop "being plundered by the rich elites." either do I. Right here, every day we have people vehemently fighting against every measure that might stop the people "being plundered by the rich elites." People here are just as willing "to swallow any lie offered" provided it is "our team" in charge and is wrapped in progressive sounding double talk.

How people can point the finger at rural people for homophobia after the explosion of bigotry and the attacks on the GLBTQ community we have witnessed here recently, and the almost complete absence of people defending the community, is a mystery.



...

[MadBadger]

32. They vote Repub because of the anonymous posting on the internet?

LBJ turned rural America over to the South in the 60s. Best thing he ever did.

[IntravenousDemilo]

35. Small town, small mind. n/m

[WildEyedLiberal]

143. Thanks for proving the OP's point

:thumbsdown:

[IntravenousDemilo]

215. I lived in a rural village of 1,000 people. I know whereof I speak.

We were never accepted there, as we were from the "big city" of Regina, Saskatchewan, pop. 170,000. My father had a bakery in the village. Now, he was a fine baker, but the insular-minded villagers preferred to buy the "fresh" bread at the local IGA (which had been sitting on the shelf for a week) for three times the cost of my dad's day-old bread, which would be discounted to half-price. Eventually dad went bankrupt, even though he worked like a fool every single day right up to the end, getting up at three every morning and loading dough into those huge, hot ovens. Eventually, my mother and the rest of us had to leave town in the dead of night with whatever we could salvage, while dad was in the hospital in Regina. See, what we didn't know is that my father had been neglecting his health because he had to devote so much time to a business that was doomed by the attitude of the locals, and he died of colon cancer less than a month after we moved back home.

Yes, I am bitter about small-towners and their small minds. I reject them all, every last fucking one of them.

[WildEyedLiberal]

222. You blame ALL small town residents for what happened to your dad?

You should probably see a therapist. You obviously have issues.

I am a small town girl, born and bred, and I do not have a small mind. Nor do my parents or grandparents. Not that I need to justify myself to you or anyone else. There certainly IS someone in this exchange with a small, closed mind, but it ain't me.

[IntravenousDemilo]

235. I realize we have the luxury of anonymity on the internet.

And thus it's easy to spout off about how someone you've never met "should probably see a therapist" or might "obviously have issues". I am probably guilty of gross overgeneralization, but at least I haven't made this into an individual personal attack.

[Two Americas]

288. hmmm

People moving into rural areas bring their attitudes with them. The assumption that people should be able to move into rural areas and prosper doing things that worked in the city, and then blaming the "stupid" and "close minded" locals when they do not succeed, is something I have seen first hand many times. But some are able to succeed at that, and that is a function of not coming in with an arrogant and condescending attitude. Not saying that this was the case with your family, but rather that because rural people have experienced this they are reluctant to accept people from the city. The invasion by city folks, with their desire to enjoy rural life, is often not a good thing for the locals so their resistance is understandable.

I am sorry to hear about your father. But I don't think we can draw broad conclusions about rural people from that.

I wouldn't try to start a gourmet bakery in a rural town. It is too specialized, and rural life requires people to do many things in order to survive. It is a luxury of city life to be able to specialize like that. I admire your Dad for trying, but it is very difficult.

The main work I do is helping family farmers develop retail products, set up farm stand and u-pick operations, and develop Internet sales, and that requires me to be a photographer, computer expert, writer, graphic artist, but even then I also tune pianos, work in the packing plant on occasion, help out with harvest, drive the truck to deliver produce, fix people's computers, play at barn dances, and whatever else is needed. Often, I fix someone's computer in exchange for a meal, or in exchange for them fixing my car. Specialization is not possible, nor is it possible to survive without becoming deeply involved in the community and getting to know your neighbors, and those things are not necessary in a city environment.


...

[IntravenousDemilo]

293. My people had grown up in a village 20 miles away from Redvers.

And we still had about threescore relatives in the area. We came from ordinary farm stock. It's not like we were complete strangers. My mom and dad had only moved to Regina some 15 years earlier. And my dad's wasn't a gourmet bakery; he made bread, buns, cakes, pies, doughnuts, muffins -- normal baked goods, nothing fancy. There had been no bakery when we moved there.

No, the residents were just being typically pissy and insular. The kids kept beating me up and telling me that we should get the fuck back to Regina, and their parents insisted on going to the grocery store to buy their so-called fresh bread and buns that had been sent there a week earlier -- from Regina.

That was about 40 years ago. My one consolation is that a lot of those people are probably dead by now.

[Two Americas]

294. that can happen

I am in a small town right now that is very insular. When I was on the road, we would assess every little town we visited - either "Pottervile" or "Bedford Falls."

[auburnblu]

300. You are "enlightened"

I totally agree. Your logic is great, small town, small mind. In fact I say we go one further, unless you go to an Ivy League school you are a small mind. What say you? All hail the "I'm enlightened" liberal frauds on this board.

[IntravenousDemilo]

309. I am, yes. n/m

[auburnblu]

37. Attacking the poor - how "enlightened"

What's revealing is how many in this thread think its okay. DU has waaaaaay too many "I'm enlightened" liberals and not enough true liberals. An "I'm enlightened" liberal loves to feel superior and belittle poor people and use stereotypes. A true liberal isn't cracking jokes about someone struggling financially.

And notice that it seems like more posters are criticizing the original poster than the terrible practice of blasting poor people. For those of you more focused on defending the practice of joking about the poor and attacking the original poster's observations than saying yep cracking jokes about poor people sucks, sorry that's not "enlightened".

[wickerwoman]

193. "The poor" isn't a monolithic group

and most of the comments aren't attacking them en masse but are commenting on specific subsets. It is the traits of those subsets, such as religious hypocrisy, bigotry, lack of curiosity, sexism, etc. that are being attacked, not that fact that they are poor. My grandfather was incredibly poor but he was a strong pro-union organizer who memorized reams of poems and made sure all six of his kids got the best education possible. He had faith but he used it for quiet acts of charity not bullying judgmental condemnation. I don't see a single comment on this board attacking people like my grandfather simply because they are poor and live in rural areas.

I think it was Bill Maher who said "the surest sign of intelligence in some parts of America is how quickly you get out of them." I don't think people in cities are born any smarter or even necessarily provided with a better primary and secondary education, but the best universities in America are concentrated in urban areas on the coasts and the highest paying jobs are generally in the same areas and they drain away the brightest, most motivated, most curious people from rural areas. This is not an elitist statement, it's a genuine and observable phenomenon.

I grew up in the whitest of white rural logging towns and I was a racist little shit when I was eighteen (more because of peers than my parents who were from big cities on the east coast and are still treated with suspicion after thirty years because of their "accents".) I went to college and actually met some black people, took some more honest courses on American history and now I can at least recognize my own racism and try to do something about it. But I had to get out of my circumstances and get some perspective on it and the really disturbing thing about many of the people I grew up with is the lack of desire and motivation to do the same. It's one thing to say "I'd really like to travel and meet different people and learn about different cultures and ways of seeing the world but I just don't have the money/time/opportunity" and saying "My little bit of America is the best place on Earth and don't you dare try telling me any different." I think the later attitude is responsible for a lot of what is wrong with America today and I don't think it's "poor-bashing" to point it out.

[auburnblu]

297. Calling someone trailer trash

Guess what if your grandfather lived in a trailer, he's been mocked by some of the "enlightened" on this board. If someone is called trailer trash that is bashing them simply because they are poor. Like bashing someone simply because they live in what would be deemed an inner city area.

Bigotry is bigotry and too many frauds on here love to be bigoted against poor people and people of faith. There are those on here that simply act like they hate religion in general so yep, sadly they will condemn all people of faith and your grandfather falls in that category. My comments will not sit well with the "I'm enlightened" fraud liberals at all and frankly I think that's great. Frauds usually get ticked off when called out. And not saying you are a fraud at all, but a number of posters on this board are.

[coyotespaw]

43. And the Iowan says...

a lot (not all) working class Americans check the R on their voter ID because they've been duped. It has nothing to do with the superiority complex that a lot of non-rural, non-working class lefties have (and quite a few of them do have an "I have a degree, so I'm obviously superior than them" streak.) The Republicans are better at playing to peoples fears, mostly the fear of the shadowy "other." (You know, the ones that are sneaking across the border to rape their daughters, sell their children drugs, take their jobs, and blow up famous buildings.) And a lot of times, instead of helping them realize that the Republicans are the ones that are really ruining things, we just dismiss them as ignorant.

[Echo In Light]

98. The complicated futility of ignorance

Unfortunately the crux of the problem w/small towners who side w/righty is lifelong indoctrination/brainwashing, and isn't necessarily a matter of intelligence/experience/stupidity, etc.

When the thought process is so deeply seated within yrs of emotional based deception (the best propaganda makes its strongest appeals to one's emotions) it's very unlikely that such persons will reach that point of critical mass where the rhetoric no longer jives with the imposed-yet-chosen reality, and they begin to move past it. Within a limited social environment life is too easy and comfortable to break from the bubble of authoritarianism where black/white ideals are easily managed.

[coyotespaw]

257. *Ahem* "Life is too easy"????

Whether you realize it or not, these are people that bust their asses on a daily basis. Most of the time, they wake up at way too early, do back-breaking labor, and come home looking for a bit of entertainment. Now, on occasion, they check up on the news; it's not their fault that the news that they get is tailored by the same corporate interests that are oppressing them to deflect the blame away from the big businesses that are raping them. They don't have the same amount of free time that we do, time enough to analyze the news sources and find out that all they're hearing is propaganda. They just want to catch a break; and sadly enough, when they hear Limbaugh on their lunch break saying it's all the fault of the N******, and then they hear the same thing from O'Reilly when they get back from work, they're going to believe it. And when those same people tell them that the socialists liberals on their message board says that life is too easy, they're going to believe it. It's time to quit being condescending to the heart and soul of the Democratic party. It's hard enough for me to tell the working class people that I run into on a day to day basis that the Democratic party has their best interests at heart without seeing someone thoughtlessly post on here that "life is too easy." Please, for all of our sakes, think before you post...

[mcctatas]

266. your response to the above poster is dead on balls accurate...

I have long believed that the reason the right is able to paint liberals with the elitist brush is because a small, but vocal and dead fecking wrong, minority of us too often act like out of touch douchebags.

:toast:

[auburnblu]

301. You sound "enlightened"

But I am pushing for a new way of thinking in addition to the thoughts on here that all those in rural areas are ignorant. Unless you have a degree from an Ivy League school, your opinion simply can't be respected, because surely you are not "enlightened" enough. If you have a degree from an Ivy League school by all means continue with such posts, if not, sadly you are no better than those living in rural areas.

[Heidi]

50. I realize slurs like that can be hurtful, but do they impede anyone's human rights?

I grew up in the rural Midwest and South. The slurs I heard about my GLBT brothers and sisters, African-Americans, Latinos, the disabled, the truly poor, and women were active attempts to incite denial of human rights.

Have you ever been gay, lesbian, bi, transgendered, African-American, Latino, disabled, impoverished or female in rural America?

[geegollygosh]

51. I'm a bi, working class female...

I would say that the dismissal of beliefs based on region is in this category. And I would also say that much of it is classism, whether people want to admit it or not.

Incidentally, I feel much more uncomfortable talking about my socio-economic status at my liberal, hippie college than at home.

[Heidi]

52. Why do you think you feel more comfortable talking about your socioeconomic status

at your liberal, hippie college than at home? Could it be because your more liberal peers are less likely to judge your character on the basis of your income?

[geegollygosh]

53. I said I feel much more UNcomfortable talking about it.

Because of the classism and regionalism that is ingrained within many liberal circles.

[Heidi]

55. No, that's not what you said, but I see that you've edited your post.

I'm sorry you've been treated in an unwelcome way by your liberal friends based on your socioeconomic status. Since you're getting so little support from your liberal friends, I have to wonder what sort of support you get from your conservative friends.

[geegollygosh]

99. No, I did not edit my post. You misread.

Most of my conservative friends come from the same background as I do, and they are great. You can believe that or not. Of course, there are conservatives who I also feel uncomfortable around. But I don't consider them friends.

I have great liberal friends also who I am completely comfortable around. I am simply stating that the general feel of my campus is dismissive or occasionally downright hostile to many people from my socio-economic background.

[Heidi]

133. Yes, you edited your post while I was replying to you. Edited posts at DU leave a footprint.

Hard to argue a screenshot. The red edit footprint shows that you edited your post. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5367820&mesg_id=5367963

[geegollygosh]

135. Yes, but I edited to add that statement

Not to change it.

[Heidi]

136. Oh, well. THAT'S DIFFERENT. :eyes: (nt)

[geegollygosh]

137. Of course it's different. You misread the statement accroding to what you expected...

and then tried to put the blame on me.

[Heidi]

139. You're cute.

Maybe we'll keep you.

[Two Americas]

279. this is an important issue

I too see the judgmental attitudes based on income and social status in college towns and upscale suburbs among liberals.

On the other hand, in rural areas I see people pulling together to help each other and being much more tolerant in many ways then people are in suburbia.

There are cultural differences.

Dick Gregory made the best comment on this difference, comparing the racism in the South to that in the North. "In the South they don't care how close I get, so long as I don't get too big. In the North they don't care how big I get, so long as I don't get too close."

Northern liberals love to point the finger and look down on others, but they are blind to their own prejudice. In fact, I think that being able to feel superior and point fingers at others is the attraction of liberalism for too many people.



...

[Believing Is Art]

56. How long were you/have you been uncomfortable?

When I first went to college and met other liberals, yeah, they made assumptions about me because I'm from Kentucky and my family has a poor background. That lasted maybe a week, at most.

[geegollygosh]

105. Then your situation is different than mine

Plain and simple. Most of my friends know me well enough that they don't make me uncomfortable by making assumptions or stereotypes. (Or they do it in jest... I do have a sense of humor when things aren't said with a sneer). But my college is in a conservative, working-class town, and I constantly hear about how backward the people are... but these are the same kinds of people I grew up with.

Further, few students ever venture out into the community farther than the local Mexican place for a burrito and margarita. Their ignorance and stereotyping of the town that they are living in, but not a part of, is astounding.

[obiwan]

72. I am never ashamed of my socionomic status.

I am poor and opinionated, and very intelligent. No brag, just fact.

I'm compassionate but very informed. If you don't like what I say, don't listen.

Courage! Be nice to others but be true to yourself and don't worry about what others think of you.

As far as "classism"- either you have class or you don't.

[dysfunctional press]

58. i didn't realize that so many rural working class americans read du...

and then get their feelings hurt into voting republican...?

is THAT what you're trying to say? :shrug:

because to me, it seems that the jokes are being made about them BECAUSE they vote republican, and honestly believe that it's in their best interests to do so.

discuss.

[Caliman73]

63. I know you wrote this to insult DU posters but ...

I will answer as if you weren't just baiting people. Rural people tend to vote Republican because they usually do not have the interaction with the government that other voters do. Services such as roads, electrical grids, and health care are small scale and local. Rural people are more likely to have the sense of rugged individualism that Republicans try to tap into, because they often have to depend on their own efforts for subsistence. They also tend to be more socially conservative based in Christian values which also play into Republican talking points.

Yes there are some DU posters who write emotionally charged and insulting things about rural people. I realize that my own reasons may be based in stereotypes. However, to think that rural citizens base their votes solely on what is written about them on Democratic Underground is either naive or you are trying to make a point. If it is the latter, I suggest you just come out and say something and face the rebuttal.

[Smith_3]

68. Sure. And the south wanted to keep the slaves because of them Boston latte libruls.

:crazy: I think you are confusing cause and effect.

[geegollygosh]

106. I have said again and again that I am not saying that rural areas...

vote conservative solely based on this. Of course there are other, much more important factors. I'm saying that this kind of hate doesn't belong on a true "progressive" or "liberal" board.

[Two Americas]

283. another interesting comment

As Lincoln often said "were I in their shoes, I would no doubt think the same way."

Slavery was legal in almost every Northern state, in some case right into the 1850's, and northern shipping, banking and textile industry profited from slavery and defended and supported it. After the war, Boston bankers worked hard to help the former slave holders get back on their feet and establish the share cropping system and deny the freed slaves political freedom and land.

Northern representatives wrote slavery into the Constitution. Northern money financed slavery.


...

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geegollygosh]

94. Why is it "trolling" to criticize? I post this and what I get is defensiveness and rationalization

Since when are progressives supposed to just sit back and never have their opinions and own short comings questioned?

[tekisui]

112. You are using a false meme.

Your premise is that rural Americans don't vote Democratic. That is not true. You are implying that it is because you could dig up 10 posts on an anonymous message board criticizing the south, that is absurd. This is flame bait trolling. Enjoy your stay.

[geegollygosh]

117. I am using these posts as examples of an attitude I see daily

The majority of rural Americans do vote red. Not all. I never said nor implied that. I said that many people on the left ask 'why do all rural americans vote red' because they assume it is true.

[historian]

70. tis simple

Somehow or the other being christian and republican are mutually inclusive, followed by violence and lack of education of any sort.

[Two Americas]

290. that supports the OP's contention

Rural = Republican = Christian = violence = lack of education of any sort.

[Ardent15]

78. Cultural and foreign policy issues

They are concerned about the modern culture that Democrats appear to tolerate and the Democratic Party's attempts to "appease the terrorists."

Also, rural people tend to be more libertarian when it comes to government.

[Canuckistanian]

81. Bait and switch. Hit 'em with wedge issues, then stealthily implement the real plan

It's quite ingenious, actually. They've actually got Democrats playing along, too.

[mdmc]

82. Democrats are the party of the working class

the GOP is for the rich, and those too poor to realize that they are working class (like Joe the Plumber).

[geegollygosh]

103. And yet democrats are saying things like....

“Someone funnier than me once said that God points his tornadoes at trailer parks for a reason.”

With friends like that...

[tekisui]

108. Do Democrat leaders speak like that?

No. But, I have heard repukes say all sorts of bigoted, racist, homophobic shit.

Anonymous posters on a message board do not the Democratic Party make.

[DemBones DemBones]

120. Uh, remember Obama saying people in PA were "bitter"

and clinging to God and guns?

[tekisui]

121. He wasn't lying.

He was asked and he answered. His comment was factual and a far cry from KKKentucky or any of that other stuff.

[DemBones DemBones]

123. There are none so blind as those who refuse to see. nt

[ieoeja]

128. What is your fucking problem?

"You go into these small towns in Pennsylvania and, like a lot of small towns in the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing's replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton Administration, and the Bush Administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations."


There it is. The full fucking quote. Please explain to all of us blind, dumb-shits what is so fucking insulting about that quote?

He is showing them EMPATHY for Christ's sake. He is explaining why they have lost faith in their government, and you have to pull out one fucking word and twist and spin and twist and spin and do your utmost to turn it into some sort of insult.

The difference between you and Obama is that he has spent a lot of time in small midwestern towns. He knows these people. And he cares. You just want to use their crushed dreams to further your hate.

[Two Americas]

259. there are a number of things wrong with that

Rural Democrats - and 40-49% of the people are Democrats in thousands of rural "red" districts - are just as likely to own guns as rural Republicans are. It is insulting and inaccurate to connect that to being bitter, or to how people vote.

Rural people have been going to church - as have the people in urban AA neighborhoods - for generations, good times and bad. The church is a community focus for people that suburbanites don't understand and appreciate. The remarks about "their religion" are condescending and insulting.

There is little anti-immigrant sentiment in the farming communities - especially when compared to suburbia - where immigrants are being integrated into the communities and working side by side with the people there, buying farms and homes and sending their children to the local schools, and making a mighty contribution to the survival of small family farming. The remark about "anti-immigrant" is ignorant and ill informed.

Anti-trade sentiment has to do with the loss of jobs, and pressure from inferior imported produce being unfairly traded. The remarks on the quote are dismissive and condescending about that issue.

The people who obsessed over "one fucking word" were those who defended the remarks - made to a wealthy urbane audience, and quite at variance with what was said in other venues. They always insisted that the argument was about the word "bitter," and had a field day with that word for weeks as they mocked and ridiculed anyone who objected to those very unfortunate and ill-advised remarks.

It was never about the word "bitter." Defenders of the remarks tried to make it be about that word, because that is the only way they could justify the remarks - attack the critics by twisting and spinning what they were saying.


...

[benEzra]

272. The implication that rural people own guns or go to church BECAUSE of economic blight...

rather than because they/we VALUE those things on their merits, good times and bad, regardless of what the economy is doing. There was also an implication that rural people are more racist/bigoted than urban people, but that was not the major focus of the resentment.

I understand what he was trying to say, but a great deal of that statement was just wrong. On the plus side, I think he has worked very hard to correct those misconceptions.

[Caliman73]

261. Why do people contiue to misrepresent that quote?

Obama himself explained what he meant even though it was obvious what he meant the first time. People who feel left out of the larger political and economic promises of the nation will often become embittered and will draw the line at issues with which they are NOT willing to compromise. Religion is one because it is often what forms the world view of an individual. When all else is taken away then your view of God is what keeps you going. Challenging that is challenging the core of your being. Guns are the symbol of self determination for many people, especially people who are steeped in the tradition of the Revolution and founding of the nation such as I imagine rural people from Pennsylvania might be. Their gun is their last article of self defense and a tool which to them may mean the difference between life and death whether through hunting or defending themselves. It was never meant to be a slight against rural people. It was meant to illuminate the fact that they have been marginalized and shut out of the economic and political process and thus have become single issue voters.

[Two Americas]

312. interesting analysis

Thanks.

I am not certain that this is what Obama meant to say. Could be though.

[mdmc]

264. Human

We are all only human.

[Kalyke]

83. Lack of alternative media - pure and simple.

Turn on your radio. What do you hear, screaming from the stem of 6 a.m. to the stern of 9 p.m.? Why, isn't that RusHanniSavaBoortz? Why, yes it is.

Is there Randi Rhodes? Who? No!

Is there Bill Press? Who? No!

Is there Stephanie Miller? Who? No!

Is there a local liberal? Local liberal!? Never heard of such a creature, so, no.

Read your local newspaper (if you still have one). What do you see on your opinion page? Days after days after days of religious columnists, conservative columnists - heck, even the local medical column is written with the mistaken belief that single-payer health insurance will kill the world.

It's pretty simple. Rural people vote Republican because they're not allowed to hear from real Democrats.

[sweetpotato]

85. Its a function of living in a rural environment

Some are very suspecting of *strangers* or anyone who doesn't look like themselves.

A lot of them, especially if they own land, are afraid that the government is going to take away their *wealth* and *redistribute* it to people who don't look like themselves.

They usually aren't exposed to many people (IRL) outside their own cultural group for the length of time needed to become familiar with people who aren't exactly like themselves.

They are afraid that the *other* will come along and take their land and possessions away from them.

This is all based on my experiences growing up in a southern, rural environment. These folks believe that they are rugged individualists - they are making it on their own (never mind that their farms are subsidized, they use government provided roads, etc, etc) and they don't want ANYONE telling them what to do or who to give their *wealth* to.

And they like it that way.

[Lyric]

86. Because they let the Three R's--religion, racism, and Rush--remove both their brains

and their spines?

:shrug:

Edit--that was a simplification.

The real reason is that poverty = lack of education and opportunities, which in turn lead to resentment and fear. Angry talking heads, religious leaders with an agenda, and slick-talking corporate masters can then convince them that all of their problems are due to the OTHER GUY--the Atheists, the brown people, and the Liberals.

[rucky]

87. Because Republicans have so much more respect for their "useful idiots"?

as described by them.

They're getting duped by their heroes year after year. It's hard not to say "screw it" after a certain point.

[LWolf]

91. There are numerous factors.

Rural communities tend to be more insular, and more homogeneous, and more resistant to change, than urban or suburban.

The 3gs are big factors.

It's also true that Democrats don't show much respect for rural voters, and Democratic reps don't always recognize that solutions and programs for urban areas are not always efficient or appropriate for rural areas.

I live and teach rurally. I'm a leftist, which puts me at odds with much of my community. It's amazing, though, how much common ground we have. I don't talk politics with them, so the partisan and liberal/conservative divides don't throw up as many obstacles when we talk about issues.

[Name removed]

92. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mz Pip]

95. How long did it take you

to compile the most inflammatory DU posts you could find? :eyes:

To answer you question, though: I grew up in a very rural conservative environment. My father was a Republican because he didn't like the govenrnment, didn't trust the government. That was quite a while ago but I don't doubt that there is a culture of belief that Republicans still represent a small government that stays out of your business. It's not true anymore, but that doesn't mean that people have noticed the change.

Welcome do DU.

[geegollygosh]

100. Not that long. I searched terms. I could have come up with a much longer list...

I edited some out, in fact.

[alfredo]

96. The civil rights act drove many rural whites to the GOP

[TexasObserver]

150. Indeed. Racism and Religious bigotry are the foundation of many rural communities.

And it's not just the South where that problem endures.

The OP seems incapable of accepting the ugly truth that rural people vote rightwing because they are rightwing.

[geegollygosh]

156. What, is being rightwing genetic? That's a completely meaningless thing to say. Also...

You and other people try to say that racism somehow is exclusive to rural communities... why is it that cities send all of their lower income African American children to inferior schools, for instance? I've worked at an underperforming African American school in Chicago. (How many have you been to?) Don't try to tell me that there's not racism implicit in that system. Burning a cross on someones lawn is both horrible and outrageous, but using a lack of education to continue to perpetuate oppression is both horrible and largely ignored.

[TexasObserver]

162. They are rightwing in their politics. That's a simple statement you should be able to understand.

It's not complicated. If you understand what constitutes rightwing politics in America, then you'll understand the comment. Further, I've explained it to you several times in this thread, so please desist with the juvenile practice of saying "but why?!"

[geegollygosh]

165. There are REASONS for everything. Is your thought process to simplistic to understand that?

There are REASONS people hold the beliefs they do. To say 'they are rightwing because their politics are' is as meaningless as saying the sky is blue because it is blue.

Saying 'but why' SHOULD be the most important part of being a progressive. It certainly is not juvenile.

[TexasObserver]

169. As I've stated before in this thread, Religious and Racial bigotry are the foundations.

Quit pretending I haven't said that several times.

You are intellectually dishonest.

[alfredo]

187. People on the bottom rungs need someone to feel superior too. They also

compete for the few crumbs from the rich man's table. The Southern Strategy was designed to exploit that competition.

[TexasObserver]

191. True. The GOP's Southern strategy is built around rural prejudices.

At the core of rural voting for the GOP are the twins bigotries of religion and race. It's all about hardcore rightwing Christianity, complete with the anti abortion, pro war, pro death penalty memes, coupled with hardcore racism.

[alfredo]

226. Reagan started his presidential run on the site of the murders of

three civil rights workers. The symbolism is quite clear.

[fascisthunter]

251. no shit! Did not know that

[alfredo]

252. Philadelphia, Mississippi

[Two Americas]

275. so arrogant and false

You are merely expressing your won prejudice, and that supports the OP's thesis.

[WI_DEM]

101. Actually in many rural areas they don't vote Republican.

[Yukari Yakumo]

104. They vote values, not their best interests. (nt)

[tekisui]

109. When You Have Those Quotes From Democratic Leaders

you may have a point.

Repuke leaders are on record using racist, bigoted and homophobic language.

This is flame bait and pointless.

[geegollygosh]

111. I would argue that the constituency make the real party...

The leaders are careful what they say.

Of course Republican leaders are no better. In fact, I'd say they are worse. But that's not an excuse. If pointing out hate and classism within "progressives" is pointless, then the entire movement forward is also pointless.

[tekisui]

113. Your argument is stupid.

"The leaders are careful what they say"??? What about the legislation they enact that benefit rural America? I see what you are trying to do, and you are failing.

[Two Americas]

270. of course

Of course politicians play it safe and are careful about what they say.

[Two Americas]

277. "the legislation they enact that benefit rural America?"

You must be joking.

The "legislation they enact" - and are enacting and proposing today - is mostly a matter of things that help Wall Street at the expense of rural people. "The rich get richer and the poor get poorer" is what I hear rural people say about that. Then we have the glorious wars - "a rich man's war and a poor man's fight" is what I hear rural people say about that - and in those wars the rural people will shoulder a disproportionate burden and pay a disproportionately higher price.


...

[tekisui]

110. Check you facts. Rural class Americans vote Democrat!

Look at the election results.

[geegollygosh]

114. The post was to point out stereotypes about rural Americans...

That they're all Bible thumping, racist conservatives is one of those stereotypes. My state actually went blue in the last presidential election. Why? Well, one of the reasons was that Obama bothered to campaign here, and also that there was a movement from democrats to spend time talking to people in the state about their vote and what it meant to them.

[tekisui]

115. Then you just defeated your own argument.

[geegollygosh]

116. How so?

[tekisui]

118. You gave an example of rural America not voting repuke.

And, nothing in your OP has anything to do with how people in "rural America" vote. You have changed "the point" of your OP to keep the flames going. You are transparent and ineffective.

I'm done playing. See ya.:hi:

[geegollygosh]

119. BECAUSE liberals gave them a chance

and took their opinions seriously. I never said that all rural Americans vote republican. I said that there was that stereotype.

[ieoeja]

125. Having grown up in a rural area, you could just as easily be describing the Cons.

Fact: people make fun of stupid people. Conservatives and liberals alike do it. Liberals actually do it less so.

Having grown up in southern Indiana, I was constantly belittled by the uber-Conservative rich kids in college. I faced the same thing in the all-White, all-Republican suburbs of Chicago. It wasn't until I moved into the uber-Liberal city of Chicago itself that I finally found acceptance.

To date 100% of the "hillbilly hating" people I have met in the city itself have been uber-Rightist Republicans. That is what I learn in the real world. Not this cyber world anonymous douchebag bullshit.



“Someone funnier than me once said that God points his tornadoes at trailer parks for a reason.”

Trailer park jokes are a standard of rural humor among liberals and conservatives alike.



“That's KKKentucky for you.”

Fact: racism is socially accepted in most of Kentucky.



“What backwoods trailer park?... Does the RNC "Beta Test" their talking points in?”

Trailer park jokes are a standard of rural humor among liberals and conservatives alike.



“52% of our inbred backwoods nation thinks Bush II will be "OUTSTANDING"“

I would guess this was quoting a poll in which 52% of rural folks supported the election of a complete fucking moron. Why would you not make fun of people who chose to vote for a man who bankrupted every business he ran?



“I have tried for years and years to talk reason to these backwoods hillbillies”

Rural liberals find stupid people frustrating.



“It's always some toothless backwoods hick.”

Don't know context.



“The republicans seem to attract the uneducated ignorant illiterate hicks, while the Democrats get the educated major city smart people. That is fact.”

The biggest problem in rural areas is censorship by the media. When I went to visit family during the 2000 election I found:

- every pro-Bush story they knew of, I also knew of through Chicago media
- every anti-Gore story they knew of, I also knew of through Chicago media
- every anti-Bush story I knew of, they had never heard
- every pro-Gore story I knew of, they had never heard

Censorship by rural media is awful. Worse yet, local Democratic officials actually join in spreading the Rightist propaganda. They learned from the DLC to hell everything else and do whatever they can do to win just for themselves.



“Talk about lowering the bar.. these people should be in trailor parks.”

Trailer park jokes are a standard of rural humor among liberals and conservatives alike.

[geegollygosh]

129. But WHY are trailer park jokes a standard among liberals?

Could it be that we're not quite as egalitarian as we'd like to think? Is that not something that should be addressed instead of rationalized by saying 'the other side does it too'?

The 'other side' does a lot of things I will never condone.

Incidentally, I have lived in Chicago also, and you're right, there wasn't a lot of 'hillbilly hating'. I'd say that's because there aren't a lot of 'hillbillys' in chicago so people don't think about them, along with Chicago's sense of blue collar pride. I have heard these kinds of comments from Chicagoans when they leave the city and get out into the rural midwest, though.

As far as socially acceptable racism... there's also a lot of racism in Chicago. I would argue that systematically sending all the poor African Americans to the worst schools as Chicago is also a form of 'socially acceptable racism'. (and I have worked in an African American school on the west side of Chicago, I'm not just half remembering some article I once read about CPS.)

btw, this post is not an attack on chicago. I love chicago, and will probably move back someday. But it is also one of, if not the most, racially segregated cities in the US.

[ieoeja]

141. Cause sometimes you just need a sense of humor.

Trailer park jokes are a staple among people who live in ... trailer parks. Watch Blue Collar Comedy on Comedy Central sometime. Full of trailer park jokes, and I'd bet trailer park residents make up a much larger percentage of their fan base than of the population at large.

Also see My Name is Earl.

[geegollygosh]

142. Do I really need to go into the difference between someone from a trailer park...

making those jokes as opposed to someone who has most likely never set foot in one? Really?

[ieoeja]

147. How do you know folks making those comments here are not? nt

[tekisui]

154. THey are going to squirm and deflect as much as they can to keep this

thread going. It is flame bait, and nothing more.

[TexasObserver]

155. Why are trailer park jokes a standard among conservatives?

Apparently, you've never watched Blue Collar Comedy. No one jokes more about trailer parks than comedians and entertainers who appear before rural audiences.

See, what you're doing is making things up, and then calling them facts. Your misguided perceptions are not reality, and therein is your biggest problem.

[geegollygosh]

158. Are conservatives your role models? They are not mine.

Also, I already addressed this.

[TexasObserver]

164. Your comments are increasingly irrelevant and evasive.

You're a fraud. You don't give a damn about progressive values. You hate progressives, and I doubt you've written truthfully about any aspect of your purported biography.

[geegollygosh]

167. You're the one saying 'it's okay because the other side does it'

[TexasObserver]

172. Maybe that kind of argument works when your mom tells you to clean your room.

Either grow up and start talking like an adult, or stop replying to me.

[geegollygosh]

200. The attitude of 'it's okay, because they do too' is the immature one.

[TexasObserver]

230. Your entire theme is immature.

You suppose that rural people vote overwhelmingly GOP because they are upset with how urban liberals view them. Then when told it's their politics, you play dumb (which probably isn't playing). Then you repeat "but why?" ad nauseam, as if mommy just told you that you can't keep that puppy you found.

[tekisui]

171. ding!

Evasive to keep the flame going. I am surprised they are still here.

[uppityperson]

250. !

[Two Americas]

278. condescension and arrogance

It is the condescension and arrogance that is the problem, not merely the jokes. "They make fun of themselves and talk about themselves that way, so why can't I?" That is exactly the excuse that racists and homophobes use.

Why don't you stop attacking the other member - and illustrating their point in the process - and discuss this issue intelligently?


...

[uppityperson]

249. They aren't. They are standard jokes among all sorts of people.

Tornadoes and trailer parks are standard jokes amongst those of us who live in tornado alley.

[Raffi Ella]

126. well

geegollygosh... the truth hurts doesn't it?

[hatrack]

138. Yes, and your Eee-Zee Sampling represents the totality of how all Democrats feel about the country

Especially those who live there . . .

:eyes:

[EstimatedProphet]

140. Yeah, that's a good chunk of why.

It isn't all of it, but a big part of it is that we have our share of black&white absolutists who think their ideas are so wonderful that anyone who doesn't immediately agree with them is an idiot, just like the Repubs.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

144. I grew up in a rural, republican town in New England...

I can tell you the reason why most voted republican there was because they honestly thought republicans would save them money on taxes. That seemed to be the major concern... taxes. It certainly wasn't religion or racism. I think that many people didn't have a good understanding of politics or at least they weren't able to tell when a politician was lying to them.

[diane in sf]

145. Rural Americans vote red because they've been successfully brainwashed

by corporate disinfo. They do not have the multiple non corporate news sources we do in urban areas and they are generally not well-educated. Many of the smart ones get out and go to the big cities for better opportunities.

We are all paying the price for 30 years of gutting education spending and letting the controls over corporate consolidation of media be destroyed.

[havocmom]

146. Big part of it? Guns. If DEMS would stop promoting more laws re guns, we win

period

[southernyankeebelle]

153. TAKE HEART MY FRIENDS THE

YOUNG ARE VOTING FOR DEMOCRATICS. I LIVE IN A RURAL AREA IN TENN. AND I HAVE ALWAYS VOTED DEMOCRATIC. I DON'T KNOW WHY THESE PEOPLE VOTE FOR REPUBLICANS. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO WORK AT WALMART AND SOME OF THEM WORRY ABOUT COUNTRY GOING SOCIALIST. TRY TO EXPLAIN TO THESE PEOPLE IS VERY DIFFICULT. TRY TO EXPLAIN THAT UNIONS WOULD BE BETTER FOR THEM IS DIFFICULT. ALOT OF THEM DON'T READ WHAT IS GOING ON BECAUSE THEY HAVE TO WORK. THEY FOLLOW THE MASSES. HOW SAD. MY DAUGHTER IN LAW WAS THE ONLY ONE IN HER FAMILY TO VOTE FOR OBAMA. IT WAS HER FIRST TIME. SHE WOULD AS US QUESTIONS AND WE WOULD ANSWER AND TELL HER TO GO READ IT IN THE PAPER OR ON THE NET. SHE GOT IT AT THE AGE OF 23. HER FAMILY WENT NUTS WHEN THEY FOUND OUT SHE VOTED FOR OBAMA. NOW HER MOM THINKS OBAMA IS DOING A GOOD JOB. SO IT CAN CHANGE.

[Badlands Democrat]

160. I don't think they do anymore.

Maybe President, but it was a liberal Democratic candidate. But look at the 2 Montana Senators, the state of Colorado, Bobby Bright, Heath Shuler, the 3 Indiana Dems elected in 2006, the awesome Travis Childers, etc. We're making serious inroads into the GOP stronghold, while they are losing even more ground in the rest of the country.

[laureloak]

161. I don't like running down people who live in trailer parks.

Time to stop belittling the poor.

[slackmaster]

166. It's a shame how much bigotry and hatred there is on DU for rural people

And then people ask: Why do rural working class Americans vote Repub?

Many reasons. My mom grew up in a small town in Iowa, where a large chunk of the population was involved in agriculture. Nearly everyone was a Republican. She was basically born into it, and immersed in a Republican culture in school, church, work, etc.

They see themselves as self-sufficient, and have a strong aversion to big government and high taxes. They believe people should take care of their own problems, and that people who need help are better served by their families, friends, and neighbors than by government.

That may be true in small towns and cities, where people actually have families, friends, and neighbors that they know.

[Arugula Latte]

168. Republicans have been very vocal about their hate and disdain for urbanites.

It works both ways.

[slackmaster]

178. Yes, that is true

It does indeed work both ways, and both sides have their idealogues who believe their way of thinking is inherently superior to that of their opponents.

[geegollygosh]

197. BUT Republicans make no claim to be egalitarian, as liberals and progressives do

[Two Americas]

287. important point

Many people here do not want to look at that.

People will defend the compromising and caving by the Democrats by saying "at least they are better than the Republicans" and love to portray the Democrats as "m,ore competent." But the Bush administration was extremely competent and successful - at advancing the desires and needs of the wealthy and powerful, with the compliance of Democrats. When people fail to see that, they are admitting that they do not see that as a fundamental difference between the tow parties - they are supposed to be going for different goals, representing the interests of a different group of people.

Saying "at least they are better than Republicans" is like excusing poor performance by fire fighters by saying "at least they are better than the arsonists."

What you are saying is that we should hold Democrats to a different set of standards, and you are correct.


...

[Badlands Democrat]

170. The 2 states that gave McCain his highest margine have DEM Govs.

Just wanted to point that out: Oklahoma's Democratic Governor Brad Henry, and my awesome Democratic Governor Dave Freudenthal of Wyoming.

[librechik]

173. Because they hate hippies, always have, and all Dems are secretly hippies

I know. It's stupid. But it is real. (to them) And unforgivable. And to quote: "It's not just the long hair that makes them look like girls. It's the filth" They really believe that. It used to be onlly minorities that had that hatred attached to them. When middle class white kids started dating minorities, the cooties went everywhere. We might even just accept minorities. Still got the cooties.

I could never figure out why my mother rejected me, an MFA and honor grad with an interesting ("liberal") job, over my high school dropout cigarette-smoking cowboy hat crunching unemployed brother.

He's NOT a hippie.
That's all it is.
Hmmmph. And I thought I was just doing the right thing.

[Echo In Light]

182. I liked it when the hippies were the "drop-outs," not the profe$$ional cla$$

....but I know what you're driving at nonetheless.

I quit high school, but have always been grounded in that post Counter Culture hippy ethos of sorts ... and consider myself a leftist instead of a hippy per se.

[Runcible Spoon]

174. I can only speak for my region (Upstate NY)

They historically vote(d) Republican because that was the party of the working farmer (in their minds). Most of them range pretty libertarian on social issues...these are NOT the people bombing abortion clinics and beating up gays. I'm not saying they're not racist, homophobic, etc. they sure are. The reality is that they would prefer to believe that those issues are not relevant to them, those are "urban" problems. In the past decade, though, many gay couples bought vacation homes up here because it is bucolic and the heritage farms were split up and consumed by industrial agriculture. Incidentally these trends began to spell trouble for republicans.

A good friend of the family who lives across the hollow is an out lesbian, and when she first moved up to this region she was socially isolated. She had to endure slights like getting higher prices for hay and icy glares in the local stores. However she gradually became accepted into the community and although she's not knocking back beers with the good ole boys she gets a nod from them when they pass on the road.

People are starting to wake up from the prolonged republican propaganda campaign that tried to convince rural populations that they are behind small farmers. it might have taken the dissolution of 80% of dairy farms and their incorporation into big ag conglomerates, but they're getting the picture. Unfortunately, our best alternative in these parts are Blue Dogs which are just as worthless.

Democrats need to get their heads out of their asses when it comes to rural populations. They are NOT all about abortion and gay rights, even thought the Republican party has tried to co-opt them on these wedge issues.

They care about the same things we do...jobs and security for their families. If we could push Democratic candidates who ran on fiercely pro-small farmer/worker's rights platform and just left the goddamn guns alone, we could win a lot of "red" districts.

[Two Americas]

313. great post

Thanks Runcible Spoon.

"...she gradually became accepted into the community..."

Rural people are slow to accept outsiders, and fiercely loyal to neighbors.

There is a paradox here. While there is initial resistance to outsiders, and it take a while to be accepted, once accepted there is an amazing degree of egalitarianism and an acceptance of eccentricity. It took me about two years to be fully accepted, but once I was it was more solid than I ever got in more "enlightened" areas.

One little story that illustrates the difference...

There is one farmer I know who is a strong FDR Democrat - not uncommon among farmers - and we were talking about the war in Iraq. Activists from the city, identifying him as an ally, asked him to put up an anti-war sign on the road along his property, and he refused even though he is very opposed to the war. They accused him of not having sufficient courage or commitment or whatever. He said that his farming neighbors had children serving over there, that some had been seriously wounded or killed, and he would never want them to think that he didn't respect their sacrifice. He said it was irrelevant whether they were Republicans or Democrats or did or did not agree with the war - they were his neighbors, and neighbors stuck with neighbors through disasters and bad harvests and hard winters and that was more important than anything. What he did do however, was he sat down at the kitchen table with his neighbors one on one and expressed his opposition to the war and the Bush administration.


...

[La Lioness Priyanka]

183. so they vote republican because 10 people on DU made off color comments?

[Iris]

184. So, the solution for the rural working class is to vote against their own self-interest

just to get back at some people they believe offended them?

[geegollygosh]

198. The solution is for these so called "progressives" to stop being hateful bigots.

That was the only point of my original post. Does it mean that rural America will immediately go blue? No. But it does mean there will be a little less disgusting hate floating around this forum.

[Iris]

206. You've got to be kidding. Just stopping one group of progressives is going to make people

come to our side? And the "disgusting hate" you seem to see floating around this forum pales in comparison to right-wing sites of this variety. The bottom line is nothing is going to change these people's minds. A few "progressives" being "hateful bigots" are not what fuels these people. It's their own bigotry and assumptions that do and they are not going to change, which is one of the reasons why many progressives like me will never consider any Republican a reasonable choice as a representative as long as that party continues to pander to the lowest common denominators of our society.

And I say that as a person whose family background is that of rural, working class people who all mostly happen to be Democrats.

[Two Americas]

186. can't tell what your politics are

First, it should be said that even in the most "red" areas, there is still often 40-45% support for Democrats, and the Democrats there are some of the strongest Dems anywhere. Also, rural districts have been shifting to Democratic over the last two cycles - dramatically.

Most of this thread is speculation about you as a new member, rather than a serious discussion of the issue you raise here. That is an unfortunate trend here - attacking the messenger bringing unpleasant news - and that is of course a symptom of a growing weakness in the party. You are trying to discuss one of the most difficult subjects here, did not do a very good job of presenting the issue, and as a new member people are going to be suspicious. There is no way to tell from your posts where you stand, what your politics are. You could just be a reactionary librul-basher, for all we know.

However, there is a distinct bias against blue collar people and rural people among the most dominant voices in the party at all levels, and it is much more pervasive than many people posting on this thread would have us believe. We often see contempt expressed toward the every day people here, for example, and those objecting to that are few.

Ever since the New Deal coalition broke apart, which by 1970 was pretty much complete, the Democratic party has been steadily infiltrated by people who are economically conservative and socially liberal - self-described, and I will explain how that is not true, how they are actually conservative in all ways. These are people who have political ideas that would have made them moderate Republicans back before 1970, but when the Republicans started courting bigots and racists, those white collar, educated, professional people and small business owners started gravitating over to the Democratic party, or they identified with the Democratic party as they came of age.

Those people - holding views that we once called moderate Republicanism - have always been uncomfortable with the "special interest groups - they will say, for example "don't get me wrong I SUPPORT gay rights, BUT..." which is more of a personal fashion statement for them than anything. They are not AT ALL like those redneck bigots, is what they are saying. They are much more sophisticated, and they treat their token minority friends and colleagues with kindness - and there are always people who are more than happy to be tokens and embrace the upscale yuppie conservative political program. Those people can then be used, held up as examples, to "prove" that the people in the "progressive" movement are not racist or bigoted. "See??? Not all gays agree with you!!!"

The are also uncomfortable with blue collar workers, and are anti-Labor. They do think that the poor unfortunates - gays, poor, blue collar workers - should be treated fairly well - if there is time and resources, because it is not a priority and never will be. Poor and blue collar Black people - keeping them is essential to winning, and since the "economically conservative, socially liberal" knew they were going to be throwing the poor and workers and minority people under the bus, the challenge then became - how do we get a good Black turnout? Nominating a Black candidate, while risky, solved that problem.

So what we are seeing is the final stage of the hijacking of the party by the yuppies, and the purging of people from the traditional Democratic party constituency. We are watching the Democratic party becoming the dominant conservative party in the country, and switch positions with the Republican party, just as happened between 1900 and 1910.

This is parallel to what happened in the 1850's. The Whigs threw everyone under the bus, in order to be "pragmatic" and "practical" so they could "win." They thought they were purging themselves of the "radical elements" that were holding them back - Abolitionists primarily, but also advocates for public education, advocates for fair treatment of Catholics and immigrants, pro-Labor people, people who favored investment in public infrastructure. But what happened is that once purged, those people were all free to start afresh and were no longer constrained by the people saying "don't get me wrong, I agree with you, BUT ... it isn't practical, these things take time, we need to work with ALL Americans, not all slave owners are evil, the people are too conservative, you have no choice other then the Whigs, we are a lot better than the Democrats, we need to work within the system..."

That led to the collapse of the Whig party. This is the danger that the party loyalists are courting now. But it is almost impossible to discuss this. The party loyalists are so convinced that the Left is a threat, is "tearing down our president" and helping the enemy that there is no reaching them anymore. They believe that the recent electoral results endorsed and validated their agenda.

The party loyalists are swimming against the tide, are moving the opposite direction from the people. The people did not endorse gentrified suburban liberalism. What I heard on the street was "we need another New Deal" as the election approached, and I am finding that rural people who have been voting Republican in recent times are much more receptive to left wing political ideas than the relatively upscale party loyalists who dominate the party are. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.



...

[Fumesucker]

203. I like your analysis of the situation..

You are largely correct, IMHO and the points you make explain a lot of what I see going on on DU lately.

Thanks for posting.

[Two Americas]

211. thanks

Not a popular view here.

What people are really defending is not the party, nor the president, but rather a particular faction within the party. That faction is ascendant, and will probably succeed at gaining complete control over the party. That has been coming for a long time, and that has caused a lot of confusion. It is good that we are gaining clarity about what is happening now.


...

[Fumesucker]

232. Not a popular view..

Yeah, I've noticed. :)

We live in interesting times, eh?

I'm all for seeing reality as clearly as I can, makes me pretty unpopular IRL too. :(

There are not very many people who seem to be capable of handling "the truth" (tm).

[Starry Messenger]

255. Good post, TA.

Someday I hope you can do an OP on it. :thumbsup:

[Badlands Democrat]

190. Bobby Bright, Heath Shuler, Brad Ellsworth, Kathy Dahlkemper...

Joe Donnelly, Baron Hill, Jon Tester, Mark Begich, Kay Hagan, Travis Childers, Betsy Markey, Tom Udall, Mark Udall, Jason Altmire, Chris Carney, Kirsten Gillibrand, Mike Arcuri, Harry Teague, Martin Heinrich, Bev Perdue, Jeremiah Nixon, Claire McCaskill, Gabby Giffords, Ed Perlmutter, Bill Ritter, Mike Beebe, Chet Culver, Dave Loebsack, Bruce Braley, etc., etc. - and that was just in the last 3 years. I don't think rural folks are too fond of the GOP anymore.

[GreenTea]

194. Many are racist, undereducated, uniformed, frightened, religious hateful, gullible people just the

way republicans like them and would love to see all American workers become this undereducated & uniformed, easier to control & oppress just as republican ideology dictates....

Republicans use the flag & church on these people and they will do anything to prove they are patriotic...republican know this and thrive on it!

That was the republicans goal for all the people during the eight years of Bush and six years of complete republican rule!

[Name removed]

199. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geegollygosh]

201. what makes me a troll? Because I have brought up an unpopular opinion?

As I have said, again and again, pointing out bigotry should not equal "trolling".

[Badlands Democrat]

202. I agree completely with geegolly.

I firmly believe there is a difference between a "progressive" and a "liberal" (a conversation for another time), and progressives tend to be much more abrasive, and of the opinion that it's "my way or the highway" - that's a turn-off for rural folks, independents, moderates, pragmatic liberals, and conservative Democrats.

[Iris]

209. great! Why don't you start a thread and educate us on the differences between progressive & liberal

I'm really curious now.

[mitchum]

216. And what a...coincidence...that you both show up on the same day!

Who woulda thought it?

[geegollygosh]

217. we both count as half a person because you don't like our viewpoint?

[Name removed]

240. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mitchum]

253. Go BITCH to the mods about this one also (or have the sockpuppet do it)

Fuck off, troll

[Badlands Democrat]

224. You're right, it must be a conspiracy.

It couldn't be that rural folks, independents and moderates hate that asshole sarcasm that progressives are famous for.

[geegollygosh]

225. Marginalization of viewpoints IN ACTION!

[Badlands Democrat]

228. The problem is =

Many, not all, but many of these folks don't visit other political websites outside of this one, and watch only Olbermann and Maddow for their political punditry. That's all fine, but you're never going to effectively argue/convince those different from you, if you do not understand those different from you.

By the way, I love Rachel and Keith.

[uppityperson]

242. I was just checking and noticed that also.

what a coincidence.

[geegollygosh]

243. I am not and never have been Badlands Democrat

Is it so hard to believe that more than one person would share a minority opinion?

I wouldn't create a second account. I'm not nearly that artful... don't need to be because usually I post on boards that have some diversity of opinion.

Also, I want to say that I didn't drag this thread back to the top... that was the person I just replied to. I just wanted to respond to conspiracy theories, but I'm done with the thread. Y'all were ruining my day. It's a conversation that needs to happen, but I'm done forcing the issue.

[uppityperson]

247. "I'm done with the thread. Y'all were ruining my day"? hahahahahaha

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5367820&mesg_id=5374385

I am amused by people joining a forum and immediately criticizing it. Esp by pointing out how bigoted the forum is, but "they" are above that.

[tekisui]

205. Sorry, it was the way you did it, and the way you have responded.

See Two Americas post #186. It has everything you need.

[mitchum]

210. Maybe because you haven't offered a theory to the question which seems to...

be "troubling" you so?
And you sure are you using a lot of right wing language. Just a thought...

[geegollygosh]

207. Who I am.

People have been calling me troll, saying they don't know my politics (should it matter?). Here is who I am:

I am a young, female progressive. I am currently a student studying sociology. My current jobs: organizing an afterschool program at a local low income housing project, working at a small, local art museum teaching kids about Mexican culture through art. I have also been involved in environmental education and urban education reform through AmeriCorps. I am hoping to start tutoring in GED classes soon.

I am an environmentalist. I do not own a car, I keep my flying to a minimum, I eat little meat, I lobby for legislation for environmental causes.

I am socially progressive. I think we have a long way to go to end racism, classism, homophobia, and other forms of oppression.

I am progressive in most other senses of the word. As a teen, I was an outspoken critic of the Iraq war (and the war in Afghanistan), even in my small, conservative community. I lobbied for Obama, although there were third party candidates I liked more. However, I'm a pragmatist.

Finally, I am from a rural area, and I am from a working class background. I have also lived in urban areas (specifically Chicago and briefly Cincinnati). The indiscriminate hate and stereotypes that I see from some progressives toward people of my background has made me start this topic. The replies I have received have mostly not been encouraging. I was inflammatory in the way I brought the topic up, and I realize that that was a mistake. But I am disgusted by the denial, rationalizing, and hostility that have made up the majority of the answers. The bigotry that I highlighted in the original post is nothing that should have been defended.

[Iris]

208. thanks for the lecture

:eyes:

[mitchum]

212. Sounds like more of an identity collection thasn a personality, doesn't it?

But it was indeed a lecture.

[geegollygosh]

214. I never said I was giving you a personality assessment. I only lecture because

few people were willing to discuss. You in particular wrote me off as a "troll" because you didn't like what I was saying. You've all been pressuring me to pull out my liberal "creds", and I did. Why the eye rolls?

[Iris]

219. Mitchum didn't eye roll you. I did. So for your benefit, read on. Maybe you can learn something

about making assumptions

"And you know the more I think about it the more pissed off I get

because my dad was an auto worker who took a lot of shit from his co-workers for "wasting" his money by sending 3 kids to college. So, yeah, sometimes I'm elitist, but I feel like I'm entitled to be that way because a lot of sacrifices were made to get me educated and I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and let someone denigrate me for my education."

[geegollygosh]

220. I NEVER said anything negative about education

Because I don't automatically equate having an education with having the kinds of attitudes I quoted in the OP. That was what I was attacking.

Those attitudes are born out of the ignorance a lot of people on this board are clinging to. Education is a way out of ignorance, if you keep asking "why". Unfortunately, it seems many people swallowed those stereotypes hook line and sinker and are proud of it.

[Iris]

221. SOMETIMES those attitudes are born out of ignorance. Mine were born out of experience.

[geegollygosh]

223. Fair enough. I am not personally interested internalizing that attitude....

because where I am from and what I learned from it is part of who I am.

[Iris]

218. No kidding. And you know the more I think about it the more pissed off I get

because my dad was an auto worker who took a lot of shit from his co-workers for "wasting" his money by sending 3 kids to college. So, yeah, sometimes I'm elitist, but I feel like I'm entitled to be that way because a lot of sacrifices were made to get me educated and I'll be damned if I'm going to stand by and let someone denigrate me for my education.

ok. rant over.


for now....

[TexasObserver]

231. And now you're going to do some fancy pageant walking?

Thanks, Governor Palin. Glad to have you here.

I'm glad you took time out from your busy April Fool's Day to spend some time with us.

[geegollygosh]

236. Thank you for proving my original point.

Over again. And over again. and over again. You are every bit as close minded as the most set in their ways conservative I know. Enjoy calling yourself "progressive"

[mitchum]

238. If you have so many fucking problems with this board...WHY IN THE FUCK...

did you (and your sockpuppet) join?
Take your fucking lecture somewhere else, sister

[TexasObserver]

241. I live in a rural area. What do you expect?

See how YOUR stereotypes don't work?!

I consider you an April Fool's joke, because of your posts, which are silly, at best.

[uppityperson]

248. I live in a very liberal rural area, with trailer courts and jokes too

Guess we are just some sort of anomalies, or maybe just liars or something like that. Tools? What an odd sort of topic this is.

[TexasObserver]

254. Yep. No one jokes more about the trailer park than rural people.

Grew up in a rural area. Returned to a rural area (not far from the big city) after many urban years. I accept that it has its social limitations and its political annoyances. I don't kid myself about the area. It is what it is. The urbane accoutrements are missing, but so are the traffic, the violence, the noise, the toxins, and the generally hectic days.

I know these people and they want to kill anyone who suggests any God but the one with baby Jesus is acceptable. Those friendly folks will turn on a stranger, merely for being a stranger.

[uppityperson]

246. Maybe you shouldn't be here if we bug you so much.

Seriously. Hope you can find a group who you enjoy dealing with more, elsewhere.

[auburnblu]

306. Are you from Texas?

Oh I hope not, because those who Vacation at the Vineyard will most likely deem that you are a redneck cowboy. If you are from Texas please oh please tell me you at least went to an Ivy League school. If you are from Texas, I'm sorry how can your opinion be considered.

[marlakay]

213. I live in rural america now retired to mountains

and what I see is most small towns are very religious. I am not so it has taken me longer to make friends and meet people.

[Iggo]

229. Your mom's house.

That's why.

[cherish44]

233. Well every one of the reasons you listed is valid

I live in a rural area and by and large the population is uneducated, gun crazy, loves to fight, praises Jeebus, hates: brown people, gays, foreigners, strong intelligent women and is for the most part alcoholic...I mean if you were all of those things who would you relate to more? George W. Bush or the smart guy?

[Two Americas]

234. oh nonsense

Every red district has a substantial minority of Democratic voters. All across the Midwest Democrats won traditionally Republican districts, and made serious inroads and gained in the South, as well.

The arrogant contempt you are expressing here supports and confirms the OP's statements.


...

[BirminghamExaminer]

245. The most rural parts of Alabama vote Democrat

So the whole premise is wrong. In the November elections in Alabama, one of the most southern red states in existence, only Birmingham, Montgomery, and the most rural counties voted for Obama.

Having said that, my feeling is that the poorest counties in the poorest states which are usually rural areas, have the least amount of money for education and the Republicans like to keep it that way so that the poorest slobs will keep voting for them out of ignorance.

What disturbs me is that it is the Nascar dad class whose fathers and grandfathers worked themselves to death in mines and were members of unions so that at least their widows would be able to feed their families when they died young who vote Republican which is of course anti-union. We're losing the blue collar worker to overseas and they are being replaced by the Nascar dad class of Republicans. It's really disgusting.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

258. Nice job with the gasoline... You must be a professional.

[Marr]

263. Hmm.

I'd say rural areas tend to vote Republican because our two parties have split the voting base around social wedge issues like gay rights or prayer in school. Rural areas tend to be conservative on these types of social issues.

If I had to take a wild swing at guessing why that is so, I'd say it's because urban settings expose people to a lot of other types of people; different races, religions, lifestyles, etc. Rural areas are much more homogeneous, and in my experience, more tolerant of all sorts of bigotry.

There tends to be a greater range of education available in the cities as well. These influences tend to make people more progressive on social issues.

As far as the "culture war" goes, which I think you're referring with DU post citations... I think it's a reality, but I's say the hostility is mostly coming *from* rural areas and towards urban areas. I mean-- when was the last time you heard a national politician put his opponent down for being from the south, or from a small town? It'd be unacceptable. But Republicans get a lot of traction by talking about "liberal elites". Hell, GW Bush used "northeastern" as an insult against John Kerry. You can buy "shoot a yankee" stickers in the south. Know what I mean?

[Strelnikov_]

265. Programmed through Reich domination of AM talk radio

There is a reason they squawk so loud every time the fairness doctrine is mentioned.

[NorthCarolina]

267. Here's why (a) Uninformed, and (b) Misinformed n/t

[GMBshootingclubM60]

268. gun control, that's why..

JFK.. NRA member. Hubert Humphrey.. gave one of the best pro-gun speeches.

The rural areas are natural support areas for Democrats...

Until the repugs sold them gun control, which has always been an elitist position. Brady = repug.

[leftofthedial]

269. untreated well water...

Seriously, are you trying to claim that "rural Americans" en masse came to DU before deciding who to vote for, read some disparaging comments and then--en masse--decided to become repukes?

[Dappleganger]

280. Farm subsidies and racism. nt

[Lydia Leftcoast]

281. My take on it:

There are several factors involved:

1. Social conservatism: This is true all over the world. Rural areas are the last to adopt changes in social customs and behavioral standards. That's why people who can't conform tend to flock to the cities.

2. Democrats ignoring rural issues: What did they do during the farm crisis of the early 1980s, when people lost farms that had been in their families for generations, due to a double whammy of high interest rates and low prices for farm products? Not much. A few liberal Dems from rural states tried to get help passed, but a lot of Dems were too busy enabling Reagan. If the Dems had put through a low-interest refinancing program for farmers about to lose their farms, the rural areas would have been grateful for a long time. As it was, I suspect that too many Dems were either oblivious to rural issues or in the pockets of the agribusiness corporations that took over the foreclosed farms.

3. Resentment of inadequately framed environmental issues: The spotted owl issue in Oregon is a perfect example. The timber-dependent communities were incensed at the restrictions on cutting old growth timber. The legal loophole was protection of spotted owl habitat, which led the Republicans to say that Democrats thought owls were more important than people. Instead, the emphasis should have been to educate the public on why old-growth forests as a treasure that can't be replaced in a human lifetime.

4. The gun issue: Urban and rural voters talk past one another on this point. Urbanites think of criminals menacing them with stolen firearms. Rural residents think of going after predators that kill their livestock, or, in the poorest areas, hunting for subsistence.

5. And yes, urban snobbery, as illustrated in the OP.

[Two Americas]

314. great stuff

Thanks Lydia Leftcoast. Very thoughtful and insightful post.

[ItNerd4life]

282. If this is considered intelligence, we are dumber than the rural Americans Republicans. nt

[Skittles]

291. I must say I detest the bias against trailer parks

as someone who lived in trailers as a child, I find it unseemly and insulting

and just look what a cute trailer baby I was

[anonymous171]

292. When was the last time the democratic party did anything significant for the American worker?

Once dems openly supported anti-union, anti-worker policies, rural working class dems flocked to the GOP because they at least understood their "culture" (God, Gays, and Guns.) We, as a party, need to return to our working class heritage.

[Ardent15]

299. Jim Webb makes that argument in A Time To Fight

I agree with him, and with you.

[ShortnFiery]

304. With Evan Bayh's newly formed blue dog coalition in the Senate, I fear we have lost the war.

Unless "give em hell" Harry Reid decides to grow a spine. :(

[1]

295. because they want inexpensive cigarettes...

[Norrin Radd]

307. I found 300 quotes:

http://www.countryhumor.com/redneck/mightbe.htm

[Doctor_J]

311. Their own devotion to Hate Radio has rendered them ignorant

If they believe that Obama is a socialist or a Muslim, or that Saddam was behind 9/11, or that "Democrats will take away our guns", or that Newt and Rush, with their 6 combined marriages, will "restore morality to America", why shouldn't we scoff at them?