So ...... let's consider this Congresional Progressive Caucus threat against leadership ............

[Stinky The Clown]

....... on the matter of healthcare.

They basically told Madame Speaker and Mister Leader that if the CPC's healthcare preference were not part of the final bill, all seventy-something of them were going to vote against it.

In essence, they're pushing the party to the left.

If they do what they say, we may get nothing. If they prevail, we may get more than we expected.

Again, if they do what they say, we may get nothing. They'll be voting with what we all know will be a united repubican vote.

So, if they do what they say .... we may get nothing.





Who should blink first?

Who ya rootin' for?

[ulysses]

1. the lefties.

We already got nothing.

[TahitiNut]

3. I'm with you. I'll back the CPC all the way. (Spine is too rare not to.)

:thumbsup:

[ulysses]

7. one gets the sense that these are even more dire times for the left

than the Bush years were. Hold on to your hat, my friend. :hi:

[LuvNewcastle]

2. I would just as soon have nothing

as to have a bill without a public care option.

[dflprincess]

10. I agree

If they pass a bill with no public option, they'll tell us we have "reform" when all it does it protect the for-profits and does nothing to improve access to healthcare, and we will be back to square one when it comes to actually changing the system.

If we can't have single payer, then a public option that is open to everyone must be added to the Health Insurance Company Protection Act.

[catnhatnh]

4. I'm down with the prior posters...

It's that pursuit of happiness thing...If we can't have health care for all Americans then burn it down. Our side is not the one growing smaller.

[eleny]

5. This is where Obama may step in to mediate some settlement

It's what he does. So maybe that's the point of this action. You shoot for the moon and walk away with better than you had at the start.

Just my first thoughts on this since I didn't know about what happened. Good on the Progressive Caucus. It's definitely a response to those ConservaDems. 70, huh? A nice number. "You want threats - we got 'em." :thumbsup:

[Lyric]

6. I'm on the side of the CPC--firmly.

Getting nothing is no worse than we already have. I'd rather my elected reps go down fighting than lay down and whimper before the battle even starts.

[msongs]

8. hmm, progressive dems or democrats who act like republicans? which to be? nt

[Truth2Tell]

9. Take a Guess.

:P

[roody]

11. The CPC.

[JDPriestly]

12. The worst option would be to have mandatory participation in a strictly

private insurance scheme. Private insurance is too expensive. It costs too much money to keep the fat cats fat.

I'm hearing a lot about how we can't afford healthcare, how the rises in the cost of healthcare are ruining the country. So, if we are serious about cutting healthcare costs, let's start by cutting out the middlefolks, the private insurance companies that don't really add any value to the healthcare services their companies provide.

We need a public healthcare alternative. An alternative to private healthcare should be available to every American. Let the people choose whether they want private of public healthcare.

By the way, I have Medicare and chose to go with Kaiser. Why? Because a family member was a doctor there and I learned how well they guide doctors to provide good preventive services. Also, I had an on-the-job injury and my Kaiser doctors were really great. By the way, I may be wrong, but I believe that Kaiser is owned by its doctors.

Why do I want a public alternative? Because I lived in Europe quite a few years and loved the healthcare system there. Kaiser is the closest thing to the European healthcare system that I have been able to find.

Here are a couple of articles on Kaiser:
Kaiser Permanente is a nonprofit organization with no “shareholders” seeking dividends. Kaiser Permanente is guided by the needs of its members and a desire to provide benefit for the communities in which they operate.

Kaiser Permanente offers its health care services through a network of over 12,000 physicians belonging to Permanente Medical Groups; 30 medical centers and more than 400 medical offices that form the Kaiser Foundation Hospitals as well as the Kaiser Foundation Health Plan.

http://www.ekaiserinsurance.com/index.asp

. . . .
Talk to Kaiser physicians and they invariably speak of the cooperative spirit in Kaiser hospitals and clinics, and how they practice team medicine. "In most other places, people want to protect their specialties and they compete for patients," said Dr. David Niver, a surgeon in the medical center in Walnut Creek, Calif.

It is a distinctive culture, but one fostered by incentives and organization. At Kaiser, the medical groups are separate from the business side; there are no accountants telling doctors what to do. And physicians at Kaiser are not fighting with insurance companies for payment, because Kaiser is both insurer and provider. Members in Kaiser plans go to Kaiser doctors in Kaiser clinics.

Doctors' performance is measured by peer reviews and patient surveys. Bonuses can add 10 to 20 percent to physicians' salaries, which vary according to specialty and are based on national compensation surveys of physicians. Salaries nurture a very different mentality from the piecework mind-set of fee-for-service medicine.

And Kaiser has no formal "rationing" - that is, no explicit scorekeeping of how many expensive tests or procedures a physician orders for patients. Yet in the self-governed medical groups, physicians are taught plenty about trade-offs and accountability. "Part of professional responsibility is to seek the highest and best use for each dollar," said Dr. Sharon Levine, a director in the Northern California medical group.

. . . .

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/31/business/yourmoney/31shmo.html

So, this is a good model that is sort of private but non-profit and therefore with some of the advantages of a public plan. Kaiser is relatively inexpensive. Sometimes you have to wait for certain services, but only if the wait won't be a huge problem. Like any other insurance, a lot depends on your doctor and your rapport with your doctor.

[Stinky The Clown]

15. We have Kaiser, and it is a goot start. Not perfect. But not horrible.

I have never encountered a person who wasn't caring and empathetic. My son was a member of the same plan. We had the same primary care physician. She left and joined a private practice. Shortly after, my son got different insurance through his wife. He had to choose a different primary care doc and chose the woman who left Kaiser simply because she was that good a doc.

But for us, still at Kaiser, we find her replacement to be even better. She was in private practice and chose to join Kaiser because of they way they deliver care. She describes it (as you point out) as the "European Model".

On balance, we're happy with Kaiser.

That doesn't change the fact that I want single payer universal. It isn't just about me.

[New Dawn]

13. I do not want to be forced to buy "health insurance" from a private (for profit) company.

I only support universal health care. Nothing else.

[MrSlayer]

14. Of course I side with the Progressive Caucus.

Unfortunately the rest of the alleged Democrats will side with the insurance companies.

[cali]

16. I'm with the Progressive caucus and Howard Dean

and I'm feeling confident that they'll prevail.