Why Is It Such An Issue That I Hear "Immigration Center Shot Up" And I Think "Right Wing Nutbag"?

[Beetwasher]

I don't get it.

How is that, as some have said "hoping" it's true?

Yes, that's one of the first thing that entered my mind after "Holy shit that's awful! I hope no one was seriously hurt!" "OMG, Binghamton!!! That's my old stomping grounds, I graduated from there!!" then..."Hmm, immigration center...rightwing nutjob, yeah, could be".

What's wrong w/ that? Did I say it DEFINITELY was? Does that mean I'm HOPING it was? It means it wouldn't surprise me, and why should it considering the track record of those vicious, xenophobic, demented hatemongers?

Maybe it's not a rightwing nutjob. Who knows, then I'd be wrong, so what? But isn't that a condemnation of those HATEMONGERS that that's the first thing that leaps to MANY people's minds? How is it a condemnation of me for speculating it's possible and wouldn't be surprising? I don't get it.

You would say I'm "hoping" because you ASSUME that's my motivation. That I WANT this to be political. You are accusing ME of assuming the shooters motivation, and then turn around and assume MY motivation for my speculation.

Isn't that just a wee hypocritical?

[bunkerbuster1]

1. That's the first thing I thought with OKC, when I heard it was the anniverary of Waco

But there was no DU to post to at the time, so...

[Beetwasher]

3. Exactly.

There's plenty of reason to speculate in that direction.

[SpiralHawk]

23. Alas, with regret, I must confess that was also my first thought

With the chickenhawk Republicon Homelander chickenhawk official demagogues and propagandists -- Limbaugh, Hannity, Beck, O'Reilly, Dobbs, etc. -- stirring up their fact-challenged base with hate and fear, it just seems so likely.

But I will await the investigation before settling into this painful conclusion about how sick the Republicon Homelanders have become in their 'we hope America fails' campaign.

[fascisthunter]

2. Two.... there are Two Suspects in Custody

at least that's what MSNBC is saying. I also thought the same thing right away. Why, because of the right wing propaganda and demonization of immigrants in this country.

[Beetwasher]

4. Interesting...

Yup, wouldn't surprise me.

[tekisui]

18. That has been reported as a precaution, they apparently weren't

suspects. They believe it was one gunman, suicided, 42 year old from upstate NY.

[sharp_stick]

5. I don't think it's too much of a reach

to assume that as a possibility. My first guess though was a guy that didn't think he got a fair shake by the organization and blamed them for his inability to stay in the United States. Or like the guy in NC, a spurned whacko with access to a shit load of ammunition.

Whatever his reasons though here's hoping they carry him out of that building in a bag.

[Jackpine Radical]

6. Well, my reaction was entirely different. I assumed it would turn out to be

the action of a crazed Unitarian fanatic.

[Beetwasher]

7. My Second Thought Was "Amish!"

n/t

[babylonsister]

8. I did also and it's because of the

rampant xenophobia that's being pushed in this country via dobbs, limbaugh, etc.. You're not alone.

[Blue Meany]

9. This does not' surprise me at all, since I have had the opportunity

to deal with the INS myself, because my wife is not American. It is by far the least responsive, most dehumanizing agency of government that I have had contact with. Why? Because the people they deal with have no power or representation. They have no phone number you can call to talk to someone (only recordings). And if you go in person, you would be expected to wait in line all day to get in the building to request an appointment (the lines wound around several blocks). And sometimes people waited all day and didn't even get in the door before they locked up. They take months or even years to proces applications, and there is nothing you can do about it. I finally got my congressman to intervene, but it was a nightmare, until then, so I can see how someone would enraged with the treatment.

[Bluerthanblue]

10. I could be wrong, but it seems to me if there is a 'political' connection

to incidents like this one... involving violence against people.. the likelihood of it being connected (even loosely) with conservative/republican would be born out by past experience.

'Left wing' terrorists generally seem to try and avoid targeting people, choosing to destroy property instead.

:shrug:

Here's a link to some interesting statistics from the Southern Poverty Law Center- abit old, but interesting

http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=549

[liberalmuse]

11. Anytime I hear about such a rampage...

I think, 'right wing nutbag', it doesn't matter where it is, though it can also just be someone who is severely mentally ill (same thing, really). It's likely because the right wing is so collectively angry, lacking compassion or empathy, gun happy, and they have nothing but contempt for the human race or people who seek to do it some good. That, and probably because about 98% of all such shootings (including assasinations) tend to be committed by persons who are later profiled as, 'right wing nutbags'.

[Romulox]

12. Your prejudices are no more justified than anyone else's, that's the issue. nt

[Beetwasher]

14. LOL! Uh Huh

Yeah, I'm definitely "prejudiced" against hateful, rightwing, intolerant scumbags who intentionally try to stir up violence w/ their vitriolic hate speech and demonization of liberals and immigrants and gays and minorities and their fantasies about killing them. You might say the only thing I'm intolerant of is intolerance.

[Romulox]

16. The problem with this is that the persons you describe appear to be figments of your imagination

The perps the media is talking about don't appear to match your description...

[Beetwasher]

21. Umm, I'm Not Talking About The Perps

Try some reading comprehension. Those people I'm talking about are all too real and they have radio and TV shows and are elected to public offices. And they're words have consequences, consequences that all too often end in violence by their jack-booted followers. Welcome to reality. How about you try living in it?

[Romulox]

22. This is how all stereotypes work--you decide in your own mind who "must" be guilty

before gathering the facts.

[Beetwasher]

24. Except I Never Said They "Must" Be Guilty, Put Up Or Shut Up

Show me where I or anyone said they "Must" be guilty. I've speculated that it's not unjustified to think the gunman MIGHT be a rightwing nutbag considering their track record.

So you can read my mind?? You know MY motivations?? You just KNOW that I think the gunman MUST be a rightwing nutbag, huh? You know that do you? Sounds like you've got you're own biases. Put up, Chester. Where did I say it MUST be a rightwin nutbag?

[Romulox]

27. And I never said that you did, either. So take your own advice!

I think you are being overly defensive, or spoiling for a fight. I'm not interested, either way. :hi:

[Beetwasher]

29. "This is how all stereotypes work--you decide in your own mind who "must" be guilty"

It's right in your subject line, Einstein. :hi:

[Romulox]

30. Right. That's not a quote attributed to you.

At any rate, doesn't the fact that your "gut instinct" (pssst--"gut instinct" is also not a quote attributed to you!) was wrong teach you anything? :hi:

The suspect was described as an Asian male in his 20s, between 5-feet 8-inches and 6 feet tall, wearing a bright green nylon jacket and dark-rimmed glasses.

Broome Community College Assistant Professor Tuong Hung Nguyen was asked to work with police to communicate with the shooter. Nguyen is fluent in Vietnamese.

http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20090403/COMMUN05/90403027/1104/COMMUN05

[Beetwasher]

32. WTF Are You Talking About?

What taught me something was the decades of vitriol spewed by rightwing hatemongers and the ensuing violence perpetrated by their minions.

"Gut instinct" had nothing do with it except in your fevered imagination.

You sure know how to backtrack, who said that was a quote attributed to me?? You sure do like putting words in my mouth, what a weasely load of crap.

"This is how all stereotypes work--you decide in your own mind who "must" be guilty"

So WTF are you talking about, Chester?? Just stereotypes in general? Don't be a wuss. At least have the honesty to own up to your bullshit. If you think I'm prejudiced, say so and stick by your guns instead of cowardly backtracking. Or admit you're full of shit.

[Romulox]

35. I think you are so angry and defensive as to be incoherent.

Calm down, and realize:

a) I didn't shoot anyone
b) I don't advocate hatred of immigrants or minorities
c) A terrible tragedy happened today, and it's not appropriate to make political hay out of.

Except I Never Said They "Must" Be Guilty, Put Up Or Shut Up Beetwasher Apr-03-09 03:40 PM #24

And I never said that you did, either. So take your own advice! Romulox Apr-03-09 03:43 PM #27

This is how all stereotypes work--you decide in your own mind who "must" be guilty" Beetwasher Apr-03-09 03:46 PM #29

It's right in your subject line, Einstein. :hi:

Right. That's not a quote attributed to you. Romulox Apr-03-09 03:49 PM #30

WTF Are You Talking About? Beetwasher Apr-03-09 03:54 PM #32

You sure know how to backtrack, who said that was a quote attributed to me?? You sure do like putting words in my mouth, what a weasely load of crap.

[Beetwasher]

37. Ah, The Internet Nanny Gambit!

When called on your bullshit, resort to "it's innapropriate!"

Thanks mom. :rofl:

IOW, you're too much of a coward to own up to your opinion, so you want to change the subject and backtrack. Got it! :hi:

[Romulox]

43. No, I stand by my opinion: the FACTS of this case prove the peril of your stereotyping

I am just not interested in engaging in over-emotive rage-fests with you.

[Beetwasher]

45. LOL! The Facts Of The Case Actually Show Nothing Of The Sort

Unless you're stereoptyping Asians as incapable of politically motivated violence. :rofl:

[slackmaster]

49. You're assuming it's political without anything to back it up

:shrug:

[Beetwasher]

51. Where Did I Do That? Show Me The Post

Come on. Should be easy. I think it might be political. Never assumed it. Just thought it's certainly possible and wouldn't be surprised.

[slackmaster]

53. The subject line of the OP

I Hear "Immigration Center Shot Up" And I Think "Right Wing Nutbag"?

[Beetwasher]

55. How About The CONTENT Of The OP ?

"I don't get it.

How is that, as some have said "hoping" it's true?

Yes, that's one of the first thing that entered my mind after "Holy shit that's awful! I hope no one was seriously hurt!" "OMG, Binghamton!!! That's my old stomping grounds, I graduated from there!!" then..."Hmm, immigration center...rightwing nutjob, yeah, could be".

What's wrong w/ that? Did I say it DEFINITELY was? Does that mean I'm HOPING it was? It means it wouldn't surprise me, and why should it considering the track record of those vicious, xenophobic, demented hatemongers?

Maybe it's not a rightwing nutjob. Who knows, then I'd be wrong, so what? But isn't that a condemnation of those HATEMONGERS that that's the first thing that leaps to MANY people's minds? How is it a condemnation of me for speculating it's possible and wouldn't be surprising? I don't get it.

You would say I'm "hoping" because you ASSUME that's my motivation. That I WANT this to be political. You are accusing ME of assuming the shooters motivation, and then turn around and assume MY motivation for my speculation.

Isn't that just a wee hypocritical?"



Kinda blows your bullshit out of the water now doesn't it? I made no assumption, in fact, quite the opposite. I was quite careful to make NO assumptions and leave open the possibility it WASN'T a RW nutbag.

How pathetically (yet predictably) disingenous of you. Or did you not bother to read the damn thing before spewing you're bullshit?

[slackmaster]

58. The problem you are having with me is that I used the word "prejudice"

I mean it in the sense of a bias, not bigotry.

[Beetwasher]

59. "One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right"

That's my issue w/ you. Back it up. I'm still waiting.

[slackmaster]

60. Your sarcastic comment "I'm a regular ol' Archie Bunker."

Maybe that's just my prejudice working. I really don't care at this point.

Have a nice weekend.

[Beetwasher]

63. "One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right"

Still waiting. In my comfy easy chair, right in front of the tv. "Edith, how about a beer while I wait for this meatball to put up?"

That means I think all prejudice belongs to the right??? How odd that you would take it that way and get so defensive and have to somehow PROVE that I too am prejudiced. Indeed.

[hfojvt]

71. one thing that sometimes reveals prejudices is substitution

Try your OP, and imagine the story was about an armed robbery, or the rape of a white girl.

"I don't get it.

How is that, as some have said "hoping" it's true?

Yes, that's one of the first thing that entered my mind after "Holy shit that's awful! I hope no one was seriously hurt!" "OMG, Binghamton!!! That's my old stomping grounds, I graduated from there!!" then..."Hmm, armed robbery...young black male, yeah, could be".

What's wrong w/ that? Did I say it DEFINITELY was? Does that mean I'm HOPING it was? It means it wouldn't surprise me, and why should it considering the track record of thugs in the black community?

Maybe it's not a young black male. Who knows, then I'd be wrong, so what? But isn't that a condemnation of those gangbangers that that's the first thing that leaps to MANY people's minds? How is it a condemnation of me for speculating it's possible and wouldn't be surprising? I don't get it."

That seems to show a fair amount of prejudice, just like you do against a perhaps large number of "rightwing" Americans who are not nutjobs, or at least not nutty enough to be mass murderers.

The main thing is that it seems a little bit low class to take a tragedy and run off trying to exploit it for political purposes before almost anything is known about it. "Hey, a bunch of people got killed, let's speculate that Beck and Hannity are tied to it." Doesn't that end up being an attack on Beck that you need to walk back? Except that you think that even the fact that you thought it might be a rightwinger is somehow an attack on Beck, et. al.

[Beetwasher]

72. That's Idiotic

Am I prejudice for thinking a pedophile might molest children? Right wing NUTS are NUTS because they partake in and incite these kinds of incidents, just like a pedophile is a pedophile because he molests children. A pedophile is a pedophile precisely because he molests children, and rightwing nutbags are rightwing nutbags because (among other things) they engage in hateful rhetoric and hate crimes against minorities and immigrants. And gays. And jews. And liberals. Etc. Etc. Etc.

Unless your saying a black person is called black because they commit armed robbery then your point is idiotic.

[Still Sensible]

17. Here, Here... Well said.

I do not consider this prejudice. We don't know yet the actual circumstances of the shooter(s) in New York, but given the target--an immigration center--and the RW/Lou Dobbs obsession with blaming all of America's problems on the convenient target of "illegal aliens," one is not demonstrating prejudice to ponder that there may be a good chance this warped RW theology had something to do with it.

[hfojvt]

66. vitriolic hate speech and demonization

calling somebody a "hateful, rightwing, intolerant scumbag" seems a little bit like vitriolic hate speech and demonization to me. Do you have a collection of quotes showing their hateful, rightwing intolerance? Do you really think they are trying to intentionally stir up violence, or just to sell books and perhaps influence public policy?

[Beetwasher]

68. Do A Google On Glenn Beck, Michelle Malking, Rep. Bachmann Etc.

Then look up Timothy McVeigh, among others. Should I continue?

[TWiley]

20. Ahh, the Tweed Fucking Hatters strike again .......

You are so blind to reason by your own intellectual falsehoods.

[Medusa]

13. I thought the same thing when I heard the location of this

"must be a rightwing nut". The guy (now dead) is an Asian male so maybe it was personally motivated, not politically motivated? But I still thought the same thing when I first heard this: rightwing anti-immigrant hatred probably fueled this. And that says a lot about the hate that these assholes deal out every single day.

[Warpy]

15. Nobody who has ever seen Lou Dobbs spew his hate on CNN

thought anything else, I'm sure.

That's the problem with giving people permission to hate other people. Some of them are going to act on it.

[TWiley]

19. Google Keith Luke

Isn't he adorable? He is another right wing nut job that shot up a church to defend his race.

[slackmaster]

25. It's because past experience has created a bias in your mind

It's a form of prejudice.

[Beetwasher]

28. Yes, I Am "Prejudiced" Against Hatemongering, Racist, Rightwing Asswipes

And I find them fully capable of shooting up an immigration center. But I never said they WERE responsible, only that they are fully capable. You deny that? You deny their track record of violence?

If that's "prejudice", so be it.

I'm also prejudiced against murderers and rapists and pedophiles. I bet you're so goddamn progressive you would let a pedophile play with your kid, cuz you have no "prejudices" whatsoever. :eyes:

[slackmaster]

33. I have never said I have no prejudices, or that all prejudices are bad

Sounds like you have plenty of them.

[Beetwasher]

34. LOL! Yeah, I've Got Plenty Of Them

I'm a regular ol' Archie Bunker. I'm especially "prejudiced" against disingenuous douchebags. :hi:

That's probably a "good" one, right?

[slackmaster]

38. One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right

That is not the case.

[Beetwasher]

41. Is It?

You tell me, oh mighty Kreskin!

How the fuck do you figure that? :rofl:

Please point to a single post where I've indicated that. Just one.

[slackmaster]

44. I look at phenomena like prejudice as natural human traits

The human mind is very plastic and adaptable. Prejudices exist in all humans. You should study psychology some time. It's very interesting.

[Beetwasher]

46. What's Your Point, Freud?

Did I dispute that anywhere???? Seriously, WTF are you talking about?

I asked you to show a single post where I claim prejudice only belongs to the right. Put up or shut up. That was an idiotic comment that has no evidence. You just pulled it out of your ass.

"One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right"

You wrote that, right? How do you figure? Show me the money or admit you're full of shit.

[slackmaster]

47. Why don't you take a Quaalude or drink a glass of wine or something?

Maybe both. You're taking this way too seriously.

My prejudice is to asssume that anyone who commits a mass murder is psychotic.

[Beetwasher]

48. "One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right"

You wrote that, right? Come on guy! I'm waiting. How do you figure? I'll take a quaalude right after you show me a single post that shows that's one of my prejudices. Deal? But if you can't put up, you admit that you're full of shit. How's about it?

[slackmaster]

50. You're the one who brought Archie Bunker into the conversation

I'm just saying that your assumption that the shooting was politically motivated is a result of a prejudice on your part.

Mine is different. I assume it's a crazy person.

[Beetwasher]

52. "One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right"

Still waiting. Can't do it, can you? Can't find a single post to back up your bullshit, huh?

And while you're at it, show my assumption that it IS political. Could it be? Hell yeah! Is it? Don't know yet, never assumed it was, but wouldn't find it surprising. Big difference.

[slackmaster]

54. The subject line of the OP

:eyes:

One of the most interesting things about prejudices is how blind people are to their own.

[Beetwasher]

56. Umm, You Do Realize How Full Of Shit This Makes You Look, Don't You?

"I don't get it.

How is that, as some have said "hoping" it's true?

Yes, that's one of the first thing that entered my mind after "Holy shit that's awful! I hope no one was seriously hurt!" "OMG, Binghamton!!! That's my old stomping grounds, I graduated from there!!" then..."Hmm, immigration center...rightwing nutjob, yeah, could be".

What's wrong w/ that? Did I say it DEFINITELY was? Does that mean I'm HOPING it was? It means it wouldn't surprise me, and why should it considering the track record of those vicious, xenophobic, demented hatemongers?

Maybe it's not a rightwing nutjob. Who knows, then I'd be wrong, so what? But isn't that a condemnation of those HATEMONGERS that that's the first thing that leaps to MANY people's minds? How is it a condemnation of me for speculating it's possible and wouldn't be surprising? I don't get it.

You would say I'm "hoping" because you ASSUME that's my motivation. That I WANT this to be political. You are accusing ME of assuming the shooters motivation, and then turn around and assume MY motivation for my speculation.

Isn't that just a wee hypocritical?"



Kinda blows your bullshit out of the water now doesn't it? I made no assumption, in fact, quite the opposite. I was quite careful to make NO assumptions and leave open the possibility it WASN'T a RW nutbag.

How pathetically (yet predictably) disingenous of you.

[slackmaster]

57. No, I really don't see it that way

Maybe it's not a rightwing nutjob. Who knows, then I'd be wrong, so what? But isn't that a condemnation of those HATEMONGERS that that's the first thing that leaps to MANY people's minds?

Yes, to the minds of those who are inclined to frame things in political terms.

I don't view the world that way. I see it as mental illness.

[Beetwasher]

61. "One of your prejudices is thinking that prejudices belong solely to the domain of the right"

I see you'd like to change the subject. That's the subject. Back it up.

Meanwhile, it's clear how full of shit you are since it's clear I didn't make any assumptions, as you claimed I did.

Keep backtracking and trying to change the subject though. You just don't want to take responsibility for what you say. What's that a sign of Dr. Freud? :rofl:

[Romulox]

36. What he has is anger looking for an outlet. nt

[Beetwasher]

39. No, I Don't Have Anger, Aren't You Paying Attention??

I'm PREJUDICED!! :rofl:

Prejudiced against bullshit and faux outrage at "inappropriate" politicization.

[slackmaster]

40. Affirmative

He's striking out at anything that moves. He's looking for a fight. I hope he finds one.

[Beetwasher]

42. Err, I'm Calling You On Your Bullshit

Copy that. :eyes:

[rucky]

26. My first thought was a repeat of last week's episode of SVU. n/t

[depakid]

31. Xenophobia comes in all stripes- but I were a betting man

my money would be on right wing nutter. Simply a matter of odds.

Then again, there's this deranged individual (who apparently, posts on the Oregonian- where any immigration story bings out the loonies- as one "Jexpat" notes in a story contained within his blog):

http://stoptheinvasionoforegon.wordpress.com/category/oregonian-crap-story-business/

(Warning- the "blog" such as it is- may be distrubing to some folks).

http://stoptheinvasionoforegon.wordpress.com/category/oregonian-crap-story-business/

[Abq_Sarah]

67. His name was Jiverly Voong

He had recently been let go from IBM.

http://wcbstv.com/breakingnewsalerts/binghamton.hostage.shooting.2.975228.html

[depakid]

70. We know that now

The OP had to do with assumptions and probablities (which, as anyone who's ever bet on the ponies can tell you- isn't a relaible way to make money). :-)

[RB TexLa]

62. There are plenty of LEFT wing nutjobs who feel immigrants are here to steal

from hard working red blooded Americans as well.

[Beetwasher]

64. When Was The Last Time One Of Them Went On A Killing Spree?

Just wondering.

[RB TexLa]

65. That's true of everyone until they go on a killing spree.

[Beetwasher]

69. So IOW, You Can't Find Any Examples

Of leftwing radicials going on a killing spree killing conservatives or immigrants? Got it.