President Obama is advancing many issues, but not far enough, in my view

[bigtree]

In advancing these issues beyond the deliberate stalemate orchestrated by the last party in power, President Obama deserves credit. But, it's fair to say, that on many issues - like the budget and economics; his intentions and actions on the dual-occupations; his decisions to retain or defend remnants of Bush Justice policy - I believe the president has and will compromise to the point where these issues may not advance any further toward the progressive solutions I've been advocating for years.

I don't believe there has been enough constructive dissent on progressive issues which are being compromised down from what was demanded from Bush, despite all of the histrionics over criticisms here at DU. In that light, the unabashed cheerleading which occurs here (as well as the finger-wagging at Democratic critics advocating the uncompromising application of Democratic, progressive policy appears to be anti-intellectual and defeatist.

That is all.

[lostnotforgotten]

1. I Agree - He Strikes Me As An Appeaser

eom

[lostnotforgotten]

2. Dup Post By Accident

eom

[sandnsea]

3. He's charmed China, France, and Russia

But what's he done for YOU??

:eyes:

[bigtree]

7. that it matters to me

. . . is important.

Or, do you suppose I should just aspire to what China, France, and Russia want?

[ProSense]

4. "like the budget " Do you mean the

budget that passed?

[bigtree]

11. under reconciliation, behind a Democratic-controlled Congress

. . . passing a budget is not really that daunting a feat.

And, yes, there is good and bad in that budget.

[geek tragedy]

16. That budget is laying the groundwork for health care reform.

It's a very transformational budget. Much moreso than anything we saw under Clinton.

Did it go as far as we would like? No.

But, remember the Bayh group of self-important 'moderates.'

[biopowertoday]

39. Yeah--the new health care 'reform" is mostly more of the same.

[ProSense]

17. What?

So Krugman was wrong about its progressive nature? If it gets watered down in committee, what are you going to say?

On edit: It will not be under reconciliation.

[geek tragedy]

5. Obama himself would have no problem with criticisms that

he's not doing enough or that his policies are insufficiently to the left.

I certainly don't. No one here does, as far as I can tell.

Where you get people objecting is where the target is not Obama's policies, but rather Obama himself.

Good criticism: The stimulus wasn't bold enough and needed to be bigger. Or, the bailout plan is too generous to Wall Street.

Bad criticism: Obama lied to us and is a corporatist sellout. He is the property of Wall Street.

[bigtree]

8. He may well become compromised and identified with those interests

. . . when all of his maneuvering is said and done.

But, I agree that he's a rather remarkable American and Democrat with outstanding leadership skills.

[geek tragedy]

13. Well, anyone who can get stuff done has to become

compromised and identified with less than noble interests.

This is where the 'purity' debate comes in.

It's kind of like the difference between evangelizers who go out and mix it up with the heathens and practice their customs vs the true believers who withdraw to monastaries.

[bigtree]

18. we'll likely never know what extent a uncompromising progressive stance would prevail

. . . on issues of economics, defense, or justice in his terms.

[geek tragedy]

20. Further than Kucinich got in the primaries?

It's easy to sit here and pretend that if we were just louder and prouder that everything would be so much easier.

The reality is that you have people like Lincoln and Landrieu and Pryor and Bayh and Nelson and the other Nelson and Conrad and Baucus and Schumer and others inside the Democratic party.

The estate tax repeal passed in the Senate--despite our 58 seats.

Obama does not have a solidly progressive Democratic party behind him.

[bigtree]

21. we'll never know.

[geek tragedy]

23. I'll never know what would happen if I jumped off a building

with the honest belief I can fly and flapping my arms madly.

[bigtree]

27. Standing firm on these issues isn't anything akin to jumping off a building

. . . not even politically.

[geek tragedy]

36. It's easy to talk about standing firm on issue.

Obama's job is to actually get things done.

[ConcernedCanuk]

6. I agree, but there may be a good reason

.
.
.

JFK bucked the Military Industrial Complex vigorously.

They shot him.

hmmmmm

:freak:

[bigtree]

9. there's ubdoubtably a political rationale behind his pragmatism

I don't think he's become fearful of his safety in making his choices, but there's definitely an element of political caution which is only outweighed by the starkness of the reversal of the obstructive and obstinate policy direction of the last administration.

[ConcernedCanuk]

37. "an element of political caution " - yup - that is a necessary survival mechanism methinks

.
.
.

an element of political caution

yuppers - that's the ticket

can't achieve much unless you stay alive . . .

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Deja Q]

12. He DID overturn a lot of what * put in. Or a lot considering ~70 days...

I'm off to read the Stimulus, which is on the official WH site...

[geek tragedy]

14. Is this snark or just horrible stupidity?

Sorry, but anyone who calls Obama a Republican has no clue of reality.

Obama's budget: ZERO Republican votes.

Obama's stimulus plan: three whole votes in the Senate out of 41.

Come on.

[bigtree]

15. I don't think he hates Democratic principles

I do believe he lacks confidence that they will prevail in the deliberations and enactments, whether you're talking legislative or executive initiatives and actions.

[ProSense]

22. Wow!

I don't think he hates Democratic principles ...I do believe he lacks confidence

You don't think so? Is there a hint that he does?

All this courage nonsense. Obama is doing more, prepared to do more than anyone who ran for election.

Want to see a profile in courage:

Kucinich: SCHIP Bill Fails To Provide Health Coverage For Legal Immigrant Children

“I cannot support legislation which extends health coverage to some children while openly denying it to other children,” Kucinich said. “This legislation is woefully inadequate: and I will not support it.

10/07 Kucinich Votes To Override SCHIP Veto

“I voted to override the President’s veto. In the previous SCHIP vote, the Democrats left out up to 600,000 children of immigrants, so I voted against the bill. The President left out all children, so of course I voted to override,” Kucinich said.

With a huge Democratic majority and a chance to push for more, Kucinich quietly voted for SCHIP: Children’s Health Insurance Program Reauthorization Act of 2009.

Grandstanding is not courage.

[geek tragedy]

24. In fairness to Kucinich, the 2009 SCHIP was much more progressive

than the one designed to get Republican support.

[ProSense]

26. Whatever.

Push for more if that's the criticism. Are all the children covered? All this talk Obama about not going far enough because he lacks confidence is nonsense. There is reality. People have to push for more, and work to ensure that the bill in its present form remains intact. That's the point of Howard Dean's efforts.

[bigtree]

25. on the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq, for example

I believe he's acceded to the demands of the right by leaving Bush appointees in the Pentagon. I think it's a political calculation he's made to split the difference between his Democratic principles and right-wing beliefs in the correctness of the military posturing.

I think there are MANY areas where I can find agreement and praise for what he's advancing. That doesn't make my argument moot. On many issues, I don't believe he has enough confidence that his Democratic principles will prevail (politically or otherwise) without some nod or giveaway to the right-wing opposition.

[ProSense]

28. Nonsense

It's his policy.

[bigtree]

29. disagreeing with aspects of his policy isn't 'nonsense'

This is the type of push-back I'm talking about. It's a 'like-it-or-leave-it' defense. That's not very Democratic.

[ProSense]

30. Who said that? n/t

[CANDO]

19. You're the next target in whack-a-mole!

How dare you hate Obama? Get into lockstep or they'll come for you.

[DonCoquixote]

31. I agree, but

The key word is "CONSTRUCTIVE criticism." I can criticize Obama, and indeed, one of the reasons I voted for him is because I believe even the most competent and honest politicians this country can produce should be subject to criticism. It is the real American way.

However, while there are some who mean well, there are plenty of critics whose sincerity, if scratched, would reveal something a lot less healthy than just concern.

There are:

The Trotskyites who hate the idea that Obama might save America, because they believe that if FDR did not save capitalism years ago, we would have had that grand old anarchist revolution Comrade Trotsky promised us all those years ago. You know the thread, the ones which gleefully look forward to the destructions of civilization, where we will all roll back to the days of horse drawn carriages and subsistence farming.

The PUMAS, and yes, they are there, who are still mad that their lady Hillary is not president. Never mind the fact that she has a chance to be a productive secretary of state, which means she will collect nobels, no, they still think Obama got it because he was black, and are blind to the fact that Hillary was firmly to the right of even Obama on many issues.

The Nobody but Dennis types, who think that we can simply undo at least 40 years (and that is being, no pun meant conservative) of right wing policies in one fell swoop, and who cannot understand why people who do not even TRY to communicate with Joe Sixpack do not get their vote. Obama will pave the way for folks like Howard and Dennis to have a chance, but not if we load up the circular firing squad we democrats have down to a science.

The Viva Hamas crowd. Yes, I think Israel needs to be held accountable, and that needs to be a free, safe Palestinian state. However, there are some for whom Palestine can do no wrong, and whose dislike of Israel hides a dislike of Jews. I will not use "anti-semitic" as that term is misused, I will call it what it is, people who think the world would be a better place if Jews were able to be knocked around.

Again, Obama can and should be held accountable. I dislike Tim geitner, and I would glady see him replaced with Stiglitz, Warren Buffet, or even Krugman (though I think Krugman is doing a LOT of armchair quarterbacking) and I do think the GOP needs to have the fear of prosecutions in order to hold them in line, and that some of them do need to be marched to the Hague. However, I can see that a lot of the criticism meant for Obama is simply NOT honest. I am all for constructive dissent, but do keep in mind that while you may mean well, there are several trying to piggyback behind you that do not. I know that the GOP will not care to filter out the bad apples from the good, but frankly, we should, if nothing else, because we see that their failure to call out their bad apples has resulted in their whole basket being filled with worm-ridden rot.

[HughMoran]

32. A nice attempt at constructive criticism

Now if you hadn't included

"despite all of the histrionics over criticisms here at DU. In that light, the unabashed cheerleading which occurs here (as well as the finger-wagging at Democratic critics advocating the uncompromising application of Democratic, progressive policy appears to be anti-intellectual and defeatist."

...I would consider this a reasonable post. But you did - classic fail.

[bigtree]

33. meh

I'm actually pretty easy about the politics of it all. That little rant is about the top of my bent. Pretty tame, in my view__ If I hadn't experienced all of that personally, I'd never have expressed it.

[UTUSN]

34. And?!1 n/t

[bigtree]

35. life goes on

[biopowertoday]

38. I am proud to take your

OP to the greatest. And thank you for the post. You are spot on.

[yoyossarian]

40. Yes, he just doesn't care!

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