Isn't it interesting that some Obama supporters won't listen to Obama himself?

[Political Heretic]

As an Obama supporter, I have to of course qualify that I am not referring to all Obama supporters. But if you look at DU lately, you're going to find about a 10:1 ratio of people angrily, seethingly trashing anyone who raises a critical question to this administration or holds a critical objection to a policy, action or inaction of this administration

We hear many different retorts from this predominant group....

Poutrage, whiners, obama-haters, people should just be quiet and give things 3 months, 6 months, 12 months - someone today suggested we should all be quiet for two years. We should be thankful its not McCain, or still Bush, we're hurting America (yeah someone actually used that George W. Bush line right here in DU) or we're hurting democrats, we should leave, we should go somewhere else, we should be banned, we're liars, etc.

Interesting that President Barck Obama disagrees with all of that.

Far from anything like those closed off, angry, dismissive attitudes, President Obama has stated repeatedly that he welcomes and in fact thrives on not just different points of view, but also criticism. He's said that it sharpens his thinking and helps me make better, informed decisions. It was this president that said that he heard the voices of those who he had not convinced and that he wanted to be their president too. Over and over Obama has contrasted Bush by reassuring America that disagreement was good, and that listening to disagreement was critical.

So.... what you doing going against all of that?

[bridgit]

1. Sometimes curious yes...

[geek tragedy]

2. He welcomes policy-based criticism that tells him how he could do better.

People who call him a war criminal or lying sellout corporate whore, I somehow suspect he doesn't have a use for those tools.

[Two Americas]

4. no one is doing that

You keep repeating these false charges against the members here.

No one is calling the president "a war criminal or lying sellout corporate whore."

You linked to a person's posts to "prove" this, and that person did not say either of those things in their posts.


...

[Bicoastal]

7. A certain someone flat-out called him a Republican the other day.

Would not explain why, just said (in a totally non-political thread about the First Lady) "I wish Michelle would teach her Republican husband a thing or two." This was a longtime poster in good standing. There was such an outcry, I believe the Mods eventually deleted the sub-thread so I can't link to it.

But make no mistake, I'm quite willing to believe the worst has been said, because I've seen some fairly unreasonable, insulting things already. Come on, we've all been here long enough--to say "no one is calling Obama ugly names" is giving our fellow DU'ers way too much credit.

[cali]

12. another someone avowed that he looked forward to "destroying him"

and called him certain choice names.

[Mithreal]

32. One or two poster's comments is not significant enough to declare a civil war on DU. nt

[Forkboy]

48. Both sides latch on to a few comments by a few posters and run with it.

Kind of funny, in a "I hope they don't live in my neighborhood" kind of way.

[yowzayowzayowza]

27. They most certainly are.

Obama was called a war criminal for "firebombing" Afghans and Pakistanis just yesterday subsequently deleted by moderation. Obama was called a Nazi just yesterday subsequently deleted. 'Corporate whore' sortza ad hominem garbage is all too prevalent.

[MadBadger]

29. It looks as if the meme today is that Obama is covering up fraud.

[mkultra]

38. take off your blinders

[BlooInBloo]

46. BWAHAHAHAAH!!!!!!

[cali]

5. yep. and those that do it deny that that's what they're doing

they fool no one but themselves and their few cohorts.

[Political Heretic]

13. Policy-based criticism.

I'll keep that in mind.

[sandnsea]

3. Or laughs at it

as he did with the suggestion that the economic crisis could be resolved by growing pot.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

8. Nobody suggested it would "resolve" the crisis.

It was suggested that it might help. Big difference. Still, that was some nice Fox "News" style spin on your part.

[bvar22]

24. Nice

The Taliban finds a single poster who makes a questionable claim and tries to use it to marginalize a whole population at DU.

Nice.

Some say....

[Two Americas]

47. I don't think it can be resolved

I continue to be amazed at the fervor about this.

Not only do I not think any understanding can ever be reached between the two camps, I don't even think the issue can be discussed.

Loyalty to the politicians and loyalty to principles and ideals are on a collision course, and it will only get worse I think.

I am content to surrender the board and control of the discussion to the party loyalists. They will never give or back down, and they will not tolerate us, and will do whatever it takes to win. So be it.

Life is too short, as they say, and trying to discuss things here has become pretty miserable and unproductive.


...

[Bicoastal]

6. As with most things in life...

...it's often not WHAT they say, but HOW they say it.

[TBF]

26. I don't think that's true. It most definitely is an attack on the substance

of what is being said. Telling people "how" to say something is suppressing their freedom of speech just as much as telling them what to say or not say.

[rollingrock]

9. I noticed Obama only seems to take criticism seriously

when the criticism comes from the Republicans. Obama bends over backwards to accommodate Republican viewpoints and consider their ideas in a serious manner, no matter how nutty, extremist or idiotic they may be. He loves to use the word 'bi-partisanship.'

but when it comes to ideas or criticism from the left, well Obama can't be bothered with any of those. He tends to treats ideas from the left in a mocking and condescending way--the marijuana legalization question at the townhall, for example which was a serious question, the most highly rated question at the townhall in fact, but which Obama treated as if it were a joke. And he didn't even bother to invite any of the advocates of single-payer healthcare to his big healthcare discussion forum.

[Brucie Kibbutz]

10. Or more specifically, when it comes from Wall Street.

GM? Chrysler? UAW? Fuck 'em.

[Echo In Light]

15. Precisely. And it would be the same no matter which dem admin is in office

Some get that. Others do not.

[FLAprogressive]

19. bingo, until we get leadership that has a pair....

we will always be the party of "compromise" (especially on things that should NOT be compromised)

[Echo In Light]

23. We're dealing w/very long standing shadow power structures that don't change much w/each new admin

There's some difference in the financial sectors the players are beholden to, but when it comes to the big issue stuff, both 'sides' support the corporations that own and run everything, and of course the National $ecurity State. They'll never fink in any serious way on the other 'side' - why would they want to expose their own culpability and rattle hallowed institutions? They wouldn't, and won't.

...so, in my estimation it really isn't about any dem candidate or admin attaining 'balls,' it's the fact that the only "electable" dem you'll ever see is one who plays by the established rules, which entails lying to us and the world about what their intentions are, and what they're actually doing instead of what their bought and paid for media tells us what's happening.

[rollingrock]

31. We all know what happened to the last two presidents

(one a president-to-be) who dared to challenge the status quo. They both met a horrific fate, and it was a very clear message intended for any future president who would dare to exercise independent power.

It's just a handful of people that run everything…No matter what promises you make on the campaign trail - blah, blah, blah - when you win, you go into this smoky room with the twelve industrialist, capitalist scumfucks that got you in there, and this little screen comes down... and it's a shot of the Kennedy assassination from an angle you've never seen before, which looks suspiciously off the grassy knoll.... And then the screen comes up, the lights come on, and they say to the new president, 'Any questions?'

[Echo In Light]

35. That's a Bill Hicks bit ... and a good one

[DemBones DemBones]

16. People who admit their own past drug use and then

oppose drug use for anyone else are hypocritical, to say the least. Medical marijuana would be more immediately helpful than stem cells, which Obama champions, and legalizing marijuana and taxing it would be an economic boost and give farmers a new and lucrative crop. I don't :smoke: but I don't see any good reason for pot to be illegal. Alcohol has worse effects. If everybody who does use pot were sentenced to prison, we'd need so many new prisons it would be impossible to keep up. We're wasting money as it is keeping people in prison for possession or low-level dealing.

[ixion]

11. I call'em as I see'em. Support != blind-loyalty

and since Obama encourages criticism, I don't see what is wrong with that.

[Political Heretic]

14. I agree.

Both sound right to me.

[Skittles]

50. Obama would consider the worshipers fucking stupid

[Deja Q]

54. Or it's possible he doesn't care either way.

:(

[chimpymustgo]

58. Skittles, you are a mess! But always speaking the truth.

[Bluenorthwest]

17. Obama knows what is good for him and for any in

the public trust. For any in a place of great honor. A firehose of praise is one of the most harmful things to anyone who is attempting to be the most excellent person they can be. Harmful.
I wish folks would think about how we learn and how we grow. We pay people to speak to our faults, to correct our weaknesses, to 'teach us', to improve us using criticism and honest assesments. No one, in any feild, seeks out or pays for uncritical praise and adulation. Only a fool seeks to be told they are perfect.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[chimpymustgo]

20. You have summed it up well.

[MadBadger]

30. Ooooo, what is their agenda?

[mkultra]

39. yes, do tell, what is the obama supporters secret agenda?

[L0oniX]

21. K & R

War = fail, no single payer health care plan = fail, continuing to bailing out banks and Wall Street = fail

[empyreanisles]

22. When I disagree with Obama, I'll let it be known and leave it at that.

I won't spend extra time hunting down articles that support my opinion while casting aspersions on Obama. Maybe it means nothing to you that he is the first black President, but as a black male, it's a big deal to me.

It's easy for you to just dump all over him because you've had your white Presidential role models throughout history. Well we're JUST getting ours so you'll have to excuse me if I give the man a bit of room while dealing with the biggest pile of DUNG that any President has had to manage.

It doesn't mean I won't be upset if he goes totally off the rails, but the truth is that I am surprised at just how much positive stuff he has managed to get done in a short period of time.

[Mithreal]

33. "Maybe it means nothing to you that he is the first black President..."

Who here is not proud that President Obama is the first black President? "Maybe it means nothing to you...", whoa, that is an absurd comment. Care to explain why you used it with regard to the op? It seems unnecessarily divisive, no?

Do you really know whether the person who created the op is lily white? Oh my god?

Your last statement doesn't make up for the other BS you wrote. "JUST getting ours"? Who are you arguing with?

[bvar22]

52. How do you feel about Clarence Thomas?

...or Micheal Steele?
Are they above criticism because of their skin color?

[empyreanisles]

57. I respect their professional accomplishments, but do not share their views

Barack Obama is not above criticism. I simply believe that as Democrats, we should recognize his special condition and give him more room.

Like I said, I will speak up when I disagree with him. But I will not go on and on with sly put-downs like "Yeah... this is change we can believe in", and so on. I know that his head & heart are in the right place and he's already proven he supports a liberal agenda. I'm not going to give up on him simply because he may stumble in trying to figure out a ridiculously hard problem with NO precedents to consult.

[Mithreal]

60. And what about my questions? nt

[Djinn]

37. sorry

I've never seen a white woman President, but then even if I had, there's not likely to EVER be an anarchist President so I have NEVER had my role models in the White House.

[mkultra]

40. no kidding. maybe this black bar is just set higher

He comes into office with arguable the biggest problems faced by any president since WWII and in three months passes legislation that will probably stop the economic spiral before the end of the year. No president has ever moved faster against a greater mess more effectively, but hey, lets kick him in the nuts because its "helpful"

[CBR]

56. I think there is some truth to the higher bar... nt

[leftstreet]

25. K&R

[Donald Ian Rankin]

28. Nearly everyone disgrees with Obama about *something*.

I suspect the only person who doesn't is Obama himself.

[Mithreal]

34. Nah, the President is smarter than that. Trully intelligent people

acquire new information that allows them to change their decisions and opinions. So, I would argue the President doesn't even agree with his previous decisions and opinions from time to time.

I am counting on it.

[LostinVA]

36. K&R

I'm waiting for someone to call you a PUMA, btw.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Hanse]

42. Obama also said to put aside childish things.

I figure he's talking about you.

[Kaleko]

43. I think people who are so inclined should scream as loudly as they can.

Raise hell. Hold Obama's feet to the fire. But not Obama's alone. The reality is that he is the only thing standing in between us and an entrenched, utterly corrupt and insidiously tentacled predator class.

Myself, I like to sit back and watch Obama's moves, knowing all the while that he's on our side. He's a genuine good guy. You'll see. That's my intuition talking, and so far I haven't been wrong in assessing people's center of gravity.

[joshcryer]

44. If we actually were to get legitimate criticisms out there we might be able to effect change.

However, as it stands now, it's all a big dog and pony show and any criticisms must be silenced.

[joshcryer]

45. If we actually were to get legitimate criticisms out there we might be able to effect change.

However, as it stands now, it's all a big dog and pony show and any criticisms must be silenced.

[frustrated_lefty]

49. It is customary for a new President to be allowed

a 100 day breathing space, room to select his cabinet, figure out their stance with Congress, all that good stuff.

I think 99% of the positive and negative reactions to Obama have been pre-mature. We're just now getting a glimpse of the leader he plans to be after the G20. Criticize if you must. He's done some things I'm not thrilled about. I'll bite my tongue for now, and wait to see a broader picture after he's had a chance to make his policies felt.

I may end up ranting and raving against him, but, for now, I wait to see. I'm hopeful, though, very hopeful.

[Skittles]

51. a lot of us got the gist of how he would be well before he was inaugurated

it wasn't hard

[Deja Q]

55. Seconded.

Like I've said, I'm still worried about the jobs issue -- but there's a lot of genuine good; a spectacular amount that he HAS done during the first 100 days so far.

And many people also know I have a tendency TO be a worrywart in the first place.

Especially re: the NK situation and foreign issues in general, I've ecstatic, and certainly damn grateful we don't have McCain and Palin in charge.

[Political Heretic]

62. 100 days is rapidly approaching.

Somehow I don't think that will change the attitude of all those who have been saying "its only been x days!"

[Deja Q]

53. I won't deny I've made some short conclusions based on fear. Other DUers did provide evidence to

counter my fear. Especially the article I posted saying "White House Warns: Big job cuts" or something to that effect; I was put in my place by someone who rightly pointed out the disconnect between the article's title and its content. Sensationalizing headlines.

Especially with jobs, we're still afraid. And I too prefer reading other arguments; it helps bring back an evenness.

[ProgressIn2008]

59. It's bizarre that we even have to have this conversation. No one should be loyal to a personality

or a politician. It's creepy. That's being a fan or a subject, not a citizen. The guy is a very very well paid public servant, no more and no less. Some people seem to think we live in a monarchy where our allegiance is to a king.

I don't give a damn what Obama says or doesn't say about it. It's irrelevant. He doesn't get to decide what constitutes our political system. Again, he is a very very well paid public servant, no more and no less.

Either we believe that responsible government flows from the people or we admit our political system is not what we call it.

[DatManFromNawlins]

61. I have this wierd quirk...

... I pay attention to what a person does instead of what he says, ESPECIALLY when that person is a politician.