Three police killed in standoff in Pittsburgh

[malaise]

Two others shot - one critical. The suspect was shot in the leg and arrested eventually. Now would the gun supporters please tell me if he could have come outside with a knife and inflicted so much destruction.

http://www.thepittsburghchannel.com/allegheny/19094064/detail.html
<snip>

Three police officers were killed and at least two others were injured in a shooting in Pittsburgh's Stanton Heights neighborhood Saturday morning, where as many as 70 to 80 rounds may have been fired.

[qanda]

1. His best friend was just being interviewed and said he was upset

About the Zionist control of the government.

[malaise]

4. WTF??

23 years old Richard "Pop" Poplawski was in a dispute with his mother.

Hate radio is not helping the anger associated with this recession/depression.

[MrPerson]

5. 99% of talk radio in Pittsburgh is right wing.

[qanda]

8. I know. It's so sad

His friend said that he always said that if the police came to get his guns, he would do what the forefathers instructed him to do-- whatever that means.

I'm watching the live feed and they just said that he wasn't a former Marine-- he never made it through boot camp.

[malaise]

10. His forefathers did not have AK47s

Big difference.
CNN has live coverage.

[Junkdrawer]

2. Initial reports: 23 yr. old Ex-Marine...May have used an AK-47...n/t

[malaise]

6. Remember AKs don't kill

:sarcasm:

[krispos42]

15. They said this about the Oakland shootings too.

Turned out the guy used a pistol to kill 2 cops and an SKS rifle to kill to more.

[Junkdrawer]

24. AK-47 confirmed. n/t

[xchrom]

3. well if those police had been armed...

oh wait -- never mind.

[MrPerson]

7. If guns are outlawed where will outlaws get guns?

[StClone]

19. Where they get them now?

[Pavulon]

42. From the guy who sells outlawed coke?

[atreides1]

13. It was a domestic call

The police generally don't respond to those types of complaints with guns drawn expecting to be shot.

Not making excuses for the shooter, but unless 911 was told that there was a gun in the house, the police could have assumed that it was a "normal" domestic dispute call.

But we can all sit here and compile theories, so let's wait until more information is available.

[xchrom]

20. so violence is an unexpected event at 'domestic' calls?

:eyes:

more -- that's not my point -- we are constantly 'lectured' that if peope were armed -- this exact outcome wouldn't happen..

well not only was everyone armed -- they were armed and well trained -- and still this insane shit happens.

[Lil Missy]

9. Six dead so far. Sure wish I had a gun.

:eyes:

[malaise]

12. Six dead?

That must mean five cops and the shooter or maybe he killed his own mother.

[Lil Missy]

18. Correction. They just said 3 Officers dead. Others shot and hospitalized.

The jerk-off had a fight with his mother. Shot in the leg and surrendered.

[The Straight Story]

11. He could have done more damage without a gun

By making a bomb out of various legal to buy items.

People who use guns in this manner are generally emotionally disturbed (if you want to kill a lot of people you plan it out first, etc) so once again we have someone with issues using a tool to kill others.

Now what is the danger here? The tool or the person?

Want to fix the real problem fix mental health and poverty issues. Health care for all and living wages.

[TwilightGardener]

14. Violence seems to be ratcheting up, everywhere. It can't just be my imagination, can it?

[Junkdrawer]

17. 8 years of Code Orange terror...Increased gun sales...Grandfathered AWB.....

Hundreds of thousands of returning, traumatized Iraq vets with no psychological support...

And now a Recession/Depression...

Nah, it's all good. Everything's just fine...

[michreject]

40. I know what you mean

I'm a Vet fron the Nam who owns over 50 guns. I wonder when I will go off. I mean the trama of war does that to vets.

[jwirr]

23. As a social worker who once investigated abuse we found that violence

tends to rise during hard economic times. I suspect that much of what we are seeing today is caused by the same kinds of stress. When someone feels helpless they tend to strike out and the target is often the police who are called to handle the situation.

[aikoaiko]

16. As an apparent gun control supporter, what law would you like to see enacted prevent this crime?

:shrug:

[malaise]

21. No citizen should own assault rifles n/t

[aikoaiko]

22. And are you sure that would have prevented this crime.

I assume that when you say an assault rifle you mean a rifle designated as a assault weapon in the 1994 AWB.

Do you think he wouldn't get a rifle with a detachable magazine that shoots the same round, but doesn't have a pistol grip, flash hider, or bayonet lug (the other characteristics that would have qualified it as an AW in the previous AWB)?

Criminals won't stop using guns in crimes just because you ban a few with certain characteristics.

As a result, I don't think we should curtail the civil liberties of law abiding folks with inneffective gun violence reducing measures.

[Lil Missy]

27. Automatics should be banned outright. You don't need a hundred bullets to shoot deer while hunting.

And he would not have been able to kill 3 officers and wound several others in one felled swoop.

Sorry, but that just makes me sick.

[zerox]

29. Automatic weapons HAVE been banned for decades.

NM

[Lil Missy]

32. HE had one. n/t

[applexcore]

41. Exactly

The guns are still attainable to criminals who really want them. If they're banned, they will still get passed around on the streets. Not to mention the fact that some people are smart enough to turn semi's into full autos.


Oh, and AKs come in a semi auto version too. Plus, the autos can't be made anymore, but the ones that had them before the law get to keep them.

[X_Digger]

50. Where to start..

There have been a grand total of _2_ crimes committed with full auto weapons. In testimony before the state senate in advance of the California ban, LA's top cop said that in his 20 years, his cops had seized a grand total of.. wait for it.. zero full automatic weapons from criminals.

If you have the skill to turn a gun made in the last 50 years into a fully automatic, you could build a gun from scratch. Since the 80's, if a gun is considered 'easily convertible' by the BATFE, it _is_ classified as a full auto gun, and therefore has to be transferred as a Title II weapon (lots of hoops to jump through.)

You've been spun.. badly.

[MichaelHarris]

51. If he's

LA's top cop surely he remembers the bank robbery with automatic AKs. Wanna see the video?

[X_Digger]

33. The '94 AWB didn't address fully automatic rifles..

Those were heavily regulated in '34, and no new ones have been available since '86. That's why a fully automatic rifle costs anywhere from $7,000-$20,000.

In order to possess one of these $10k rifles, you have to submit to an FBI background check, get fingerprinted, wait 4-6 months, fill out more forms, pay $200 for a tax stamp, and get the permission of you local law enforcement.

There have been a grand total of _2_ crimes committed with registered NFA title II weapons.

[aikoaiko]

55. Lil Missy, was it really a fully automatic weapon?

I hadn't heard that.

Most likey it was a semi-automatic rifle in the style of an AK-47. Semi-automatics mean you have to pull the trigger each time you want a round to be fired.

Civilians have not been able to buy newly made or imported fully automatic rifles since the 1980s, and the remaing full auto rifles are 10K - 25K. They are tightly regulated and accounted for.

As far as I know this case wasnt a fullautomatic weapon, but I welcome a citation.


Do be surprised if the news is reporting on this ambiguously. They often do.

If he did have one, it was most likely illegally made for which there are numerous laws and prison terms applicable.

The weapons some people (including some DUers) are calling to ban are NOT fully automatic weapons, but semi-automatic rifles, pistols, and shotfuns with certain accessories.

[zerox]

25. "Assault Rifles" have been illegal for a very long time.

Most citizens who own an assault rifle do so illegally and likely at substantial cost.

[Junkdrawer]

34. The Assault Weapons Ban was allowed to expire...Buy one here...

http://www.proguns.com/ak47-assaultrifles.asp

[zerox]

35. The assault weapons ban had nothing to do with true assault rifles.

Please read exactly what it was the assault weapons ban did before posting things like this.

[Junkdrawer]

37. This AK-47 looks like a "true assault rifle" to me. And I'll bet

it looked like one to the 3 officers killed today...

[rockymountaindem]

38. That depends on whether it has a selector switch

"Assault rifle" means a very specific thing. There are lots of AK variants, all of which look alike, but not all of them are assault rifles.

[X_Digger]

39. Should hondas with spoilers..

be treated like race cars?

[Pavulon]

44. Look like I can still buy stepped on coke...

even though it is banned. Banned I say. That is a semi-automatic rifle. Not fully automatic.

Is there a murder ban?

[aikoaiko]

56. It really doesn't matter if it were a cap and ball revolver, a hunting rifle, a 10/22 squirrel gun,

...or any other rifle that killed them. Its the same tragedy.

[X_Digger]

36. Not full auto

Sites sold the same gun with a 10 round magazine, no flash suppressor during the AWB.

[malaise]

45. 100% correct

Bush allowed the ban to expire.

[CANDO]

26. Wild speculation.... he's a wing nut fearing Obama wants his guns!

eom

[Junkdrawer]

30. The local paper quotes friends who say just that....

...

Other friends said Mr. Poplawski had several guns, including an AK-47 assault-type rifle, a .357 Magnum revolver, a .380-caliber handgun and a .45-caliber handgun. They also said they believed he had not been getting along with his mother.

...

Mr. Perkovic and other former classmates said they were surprised by this morning's events. Mr. Perkovic said Mr. Poplawski was opposed to "Zionist propaganda" and was fearful that his right to own weapons would be taken away but he wasn't a member of an organized group or militia.

"He always said that if someone tried to take his weapons away he would do what his forefathers told him to do and defend himself."

Another friend, Aaron Vire, 23, said he'd helped Mr. Poplawski and Mr. Perkovic with a radio show they'd broadcast on the Internet, discussing "politics, girls and life."

....

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/09094/960660-100.stm

[CANDO]

31. I know, just flame baiting a few of my regular detractors.

Yesterday I said my first thought of the Binghamton shooter was that he's probably a wing nut, and promptly got scolded for "wild speculation".

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

47. Your Flame Bait Was Stupid.

Though I'm not aware of your disputes the other day, it is funny you used that as defense. The shooter wasn't a wing nut whatsoever and was instead upset about losing his job and his inadequate english skills. So it appears that your immediate conclusion of the shooter probably being a wing nut, was in fact wild speculation and in the end simply wrong. Whenever these things happen and someone minimizes it to a petty argument of "it was probably a wing nut", it always comes off as ignorantly speculative and makes the person look a bit dumb.

But to be wrong as you were and the fact the posters criticizing you were actually right, I find it highly humorous that you now attempted to post flamebait (though a piss poor attempt at it) using it as rationale. Can't help but laugh at you a little.

[CANDO]

53. Haul me off to the gallows!

How dare I speculate a mass shooting might be a wing nut after their sorry record over the past couple of decades. I may have "speculated" along with millions of others. I'll be damned it must have been some sort of mass osmosis. So I was wrong. The shame. The unbearable shame!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

58. You Don't Get It.

I could give a rat's fat ass if you were wrong or not. The whole point is that you actually used that example, in which you were completely wrong, as justification for why you posted what you did. That's just asinine logically.

[CANDO]

59. You made your point.

Thank you and get the fuck over it. Would you like to draw blood from me now? Some fuckin' people can be so dogdamned anal retentive.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

60. ROFLMAO!!!!

Tool.

[CANDO]

61. Tool is a frickin AWESOME band!

Aenima is my favorite. Fortysix and 2, Pushit, hell yeah!

[EFerrari]

28. Oh, no.

:(

[Pavulon]

43. To answer you question, yes the ingredients for TATP

is much cheaper than a rifle and probably in your home. Very effective method of killing lots of people.

Instructions to make are on youtube.

[opihimoimoi]

46. 3 COPs died because of the Lies from RW Peeps like Beck. The dude

was thinking President Obama was gonna change the laws and take away his guns...

3 cops died because of this lie....the Fear Mongers got BLOOD on them...

[malaise]

48. Not for the first time

Remember the shooting up of the Unitarian church.

[aikoaiko]

57. It actually you who is calling to take them away now -- should we blame you?

:shrug:

[ShareTheWoods]

49. Is that factual information or gossip?

I recall the other recent killing rampage was blamed on first wingers and then the taliban. Where
are these "facts" coming from?

[Bluebear]

52. "Here" you "go"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5392804&mesg_id=5392804

[ShareTheWoods]

54. The question still stands

Sure, some people said he was "concerned" about some things. Is there proof that this is why he went
off the deep end and killed people? If there is some solid evidence (like a suicide note) or confession
then that would cement the reason for killing people. His musings to friends are just that.

Where did he claim he was going to do what he did?