Reaching my tipping point -- please talk me down

[northernlights]

A couple months ago, President Obama said something to the effect of, "Don't listen to what I say. Watch what I do."

I've been both listening and watching. I'm getting increasingly disheartened.

Personally, I have no problem with increasing our forces in Afghanistan. We can't just walk away there, and what Karzai is trying to do to women is just one of many reasons why. My understanding is that there were 2 opposing views: Clinton/Patraeus wanted a massive troop increase with enlarged, nationbuilding scope, a la Iraq. Biden/Gates wanted a limited increase with a tightened focus on al Qaeda. Biden/Gates won and I can totally live with that.

I also have no problem with the timeline in Iraq. Naturally I would have loved if we could just pack up and leave, but that's not possible for a number of reasons. He's chosen the fastest, but least risky exit strategy.

I was fairly happy with the stimulus, but also figured it would be "stimulus part 1," with "stimulus part 2" to follow. For a while that looked likely; now not so much. In the meantime, everything in stimulus part 1 that could potentially help me ended up too watered down ever to reach me.

I am fairly happy with what little I know of the budget.

Now the parts of increasing concern:

1. I was willing to give Summers/Geithner a chance, hoping that they would provide the keys to the kingdom, but not be in the driver's seat. That's increasingly misplaced hope. I'm frankly furious at the continued armed robbery/extortion/threatened terrorism by Big Finance.

2. Why are working person labor contracts subject to being thrown out, but wall street contracts -- i.e. contracts with effing criminal millionaires -- sacrosanct?

3. President Obama frequently makes statements that are wide open to interpretation, and then sits back while everybody puts their own spin on. Case in point is the recent, widely quoted comment to the Big Bankers, "My administration is the only thing standing between you and people with pitchforks." Some people took that to mean he was threatening the Big Bankers. Others to mean that he's in bed with the Big Bankers. Fact is, we can't tell by what he said what he meant. The bottom line to me, though, is that he told them to stop being so *ostentatious* with their stolen billions. But he's done nothing to put the thieves in prison and, other than a scolding, done nothing to get the stolen $$ back.

4. It's one thing to laugh at the question about hemp, which was badly tuned and badly timed. It's quite another for Holder to finally speak up -- and announce his intention to further criminalize pot. Even while the administration is making it clear that MURDERERING, TORTURING WAR CRIMINALS will not be prosecuted.

5. President Obama said a shelter dog was a preference. Now, instead, they are being gifted by a very close friend with a pedigreed pooch. Presumably a portuguese water dog, which are lovely, expensive dogs of the elite...but not shelter dogs. I could probably go into petfinder and find hundreds of hypoallergenic dogs -- puppies included -- desperate for homes. I could forgive this if I'd seen or heard, anywhere, even the slightest attempt to actually check into shelter dogs. You would think that some anonymous poster from a shelter somewhere would have posted guess who came to see our hypoallergenic puppy mill puppies?!?! But nothing. Not one little ripple in the dog pond.

6. Everybody is making a big deal about Michelle Obama's organic garden and how she was out there breaking ground. I'm sorry, but I saw the video. As a mini-farm owner with a large, organic medicinal herb garden, I have to say that she had the look of someone who has never lifted a hoe or a rake in her life, and never will again. Maybe it was because she was consciously posing for the cameras. But I find it hard to believe she'll ever be out there on a hot summers day weeding.

AND IN THE MEANTIME: President Obama puts a Monsanto executive in a major position (I forget which -- I start seething everytime I read it).

So, President Obama, I'm listening and I'm watching. All to often, I'm seeing you do something very different from what you say. I see a lot of posturing...but it's looking increasingly like sleight of hand.

Please, someone, talk me down. This is not the change I voted for. This is going to sound really crazy, but McCain/Palin almost would have been better. Then there would have been no question that we're going down the toilet and it's time to run for the hills, tune out and turn on.

This way, I just don't know which to do. Give it more time...or give it all up. :cry:

edited to clarify the gardening hypocrisy.

[MineralMan]

1. I'll put it this way:

Would you feel better with McCain/Palin in charge? No President is going to make everyone happy, even in his own party. If you're unhappy, run for office. It would be an education for you.

[northernlights]

8. you didn't read to the end

I wrote that at least with McCain/Palin I'd *know* everything was going to shit...and then I'd know it's time to give up, tune out and turn on.

So yeah, in a wierd way I almost wish they had won.

[Deja Q]

15. Don't give up, just yet.

I see your point, however. We'd be more inclined to think off the bat that McCain/Palin would be lying.

Time will tell.

[Merlot]

16. You can still run for the hills no matter who wins if that's how you feel.

I certainly wouldn't make the major decisions in my life based on who's president.

[northernlights]

52. I'm trying to make my big life decisions based on

the outcome of the President's policies.

With McCain/Palin, there was a clear, unequivocal outcome. It was easy to predict, so easy to make the big decisions.

With Obama/Biden, it's not so easy. I have 2 options right now. One works best if the economy goes to hell in a handbasket. The other works best if it recovers within a given amount of time, after which I've run out of time, period.

It's that simple... and that complicated. :shrug:

[truedelphi]

87. I have certain health needs that require that this nation

Adopts Single Payer Universal Health care.

Since I have already been medically bankrupted, I don't have much "trust and belief" left in me.

So I really relate when you say you need the economy to turn around within a given point.

[druidity33]

104. no doubts here... hell in a handbasket. NT

[Kahuna]

17. You almost wish that McPalin had won???? You need more than talking down..

:eyes:

[MineralMan]

68. Whatever. If you cannot see that we're better off with

President Obama's administration, then there's nothing I can do for you.

[butterfly77]

36. I would love to see a lot of these people who are doing..

so much complaining run for office, they couldn't take it..

[MineralMan]

72. You're absolutely right. It's all so easy to whine and moan,

when you have no role in deciding what to do. Being President is an unenviable thing. It's something that few are equipped to handle.

That's why I always suggest that those who cannot find any good in our President run for office. They won't, of course, but perhaps they'll think about what it would mean.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. OMG! Michelle Obama isn't a real gardener!

Whatever shall we do? That's not CHANGE! I voted for someone whose wife would be out there all summer in dirty overalls spreading organic manure all over the White House lawn!

And to top it all off, they're getting the WRONG DOG, who will probably deposit its elitist purebred poo all over the nonorganic garden planted by a woman who doesn't actually know how to shovel.

:eyes:

[likesmountains 52]

23. Double OMG!!! I might have to move to Canada over this last revelation!

:eyes:

[Deja Q]

27. What's wrong with Canada? Why can't people leave Canada alone?

Leave Canada alone!!

[wundermaus]

3. Nope, Can't talk you down... I'm right there with you...

Going up!

[FlyingSquirrel]

4. Hey! I bet this thread will generate lots of great responses

for anyone who wants to try http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5390994">Bicoastal's idea!

:silly:

[Merlot]

5. You lost me at #6

I think there were some valid points that I might agree with but the idea that Michelle is not a "real" gardener is just ridiculous. I never expected her to be a "real" gardener. It's a nice idea, it gives support to people who are gardening, it brings local kids into the process. Do I actually want to see the first lady weeding the garden in summer? Nope. Note even close. Wither her intelligence and clout, she can do many great things in this world. She's brought organic gardening into the mainstream. That's great.

And nowhere in Obamas campaign for change was there ever a promise of Michell doing actual weeding. And you're probably right about one thing, she's probably never lifted a hoe in her life. Shall we hold that aginst her?

[northernlights]

13. She's brought organic gardening to the mainstream...except

the sleight of hand part.

While Michelle enacts the symbolic move of organic gardening and home gardening, President Obama puts Monsanto in charge.

[Deja Q]

19. Information about yon Monsato exec:

http://www.mydd.com/story/2009/3/7/155510/3702

Read the user responses.

Don't freak out just yet, please.

[northernlights]

34. I'm not as concerned about irradiation

Being toward the end of premed chemistry, so I know pretty much how it works and why it is quite safe and doesn't destroy anything of nutritional value or cause anyone to glow in the dark.

But I'm *very* concerned about Monsanto execs running food safety or anything to do with agriculture. Genetic engineering of plants has the potential to cause so many problems...for the entire ecosystem as well as for people.

[Why Syzygy]

38. During my long life

I've only had ONE sticker on a vehicle, in the 80's.

"Don't NUKE my food"

ref: irradiation

The food issues these days would cover my little car, and lap over.

And, the information in that thread is a very good reason to regard Obama as a hypocrite.

[DeschutesRiver]

101. No argument from me on the Monsanto thing, in fact I am pissed beyond the pale about it

But Michelle not being a gardener is a plus, if you are trying to reach out to those who aren't gardeners either, right?

I mean, people who already do this aren't the target audience. And also, I am trying to keep Michelle's ideas and pet policy projects separate from her dh's; I am going to let her be her own person, not suspect she is his right hand or a clone re policy, etc. Until proven otherwise.

But as for her dh Barack, no I can't figure out the Monsanto deal, and I find it deeply disturbing. Things like that are making me question a lot about what Obama's end game is. He is fucking with our food by using the Monsanto dude, and sadly because I do like the guy, he is putting himself and his presidency on the other side of a line I've drawn with respect to what the .gov can screw with me over, and what is so off limits I'd take a stand about it.

Disturbing.

[uppityperson]

37. #6, OP can predict Michelle will never lift a hoe or rake again.

Good grief. How about she is learning to garden and isn't an expert. Perhaps expecting her to be perfect at everything she tries might be an issue? That is aimed at OP, not you, just agreeing with her.

[northernlights]

62. how about she is making a symbolic gesture

while President Obama moves toward appointing a Monsanto exec head of food safety?

Good symbolic gesture.

Horrendous substantive policy.

[uppityperson]

64. replied elsewhere, link here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5396912&mesg_id=5397597

[empyreanisles]

6. 1, 2, and 3 -- fair criticisms. 4, 5, and 6 -- you have something against Obama.

Seems with 5 and 6 you are trying to further some argument that Obama is just a flat out liar. This is more than just disagreeing with some policy choices. You are now questioning his and Michelle's character. Feels like to me you are holding some kind of grudge. Primaries maybe?

McCain/Palin better? Yeah, right.

[northernlights]

30. no grudge whatsoever

During the primaries, I shifted constantly from one candidate to the next. Everytime I had a strong 1st choice, something serious surfaced that shot them down.

I have been a strong supporter of President Obama, as you can read from everything I've posted previously. He is the first candidate in my life to whom I've actually donated $$.

When he's made contraversial appointments, I've made strong arguments why they would work.

I was against Clinton because she supported Iraq and was too hawkish all around. But supported her as SOS because I was sure she'd be reined in.

It's not so much character, as politics. President Obama consistently seems to do one thing symbolically, and the opposite substantively. Early on, he repeatedly appeased the right wing with symbolic moves -- such as the invocation at his inauguration. But made left/centrist choices of substance.

Now, he's doing the opposite. Making symbolic left/centrist gestures. And increasingly right wing choices of substance.

It seriously worries me on the economic front and on the agricultural front.

And the dog choice just plain saddens me. Instead of making a symbolic move that would help the millions of dogs in desperate need of homes, now we'll see portuguese water puppy mills and another breed ruined.

[aquart]

7. Yep. It's a lot easier for people who didn't idolize him.

As for the garden, it was to make a point for the people of America and for her children. We all know damn well that Michelle's calendar is full.

Obama's a Chicago politician and he knows how to say what people want to hear. But he was NEVER what DU made him out to be in its desperate effort to contrast him to Hillary. Frankly, I'm so glad he's the one doing this and not Hillary.

He's franking the banks and it won't work. The question for me is, THEN what will he do? FDR didn't get it right all the time either. And he also had a learning curve.

Obama appreciates bright people. The thing is, bright people can make bad arguments seem like good ones. Obama has internalized some very bad arguments. And he has all Bush's power and then some. And, remember, there are no longer ANY grounds on which a president can be impeached because George wasn't.

[Deja Q]

22. Get an intern to suck on Obama like a suicidal emo on a tailpipe. That should be sufficient grounds

for impeachment.

:shrug:

[whathehell]

66. What the hell is a "suicidal emo"?

[leftstreet]

73. What the hell is an 'emo?'

:shrug:

[whathehell]

75. I join you in that inquiry!

[BlooInBloo]

9. Jump.

[northernlights]

53. which way?

I'm at a crossroads. One road works best if the economy totally tanks. The other works best if it recovers in a *reasonable* time frame.

[BlooInBloo]

54. One shouldn't use phrases when one doesn't know what they mean.

[MineralMan]

74. Everyone's at a crossroads...all the time.

If you are expecting certainty in life, you are either very young or very ignorant. Life's unpredictable, in the extreme. Make your plans, by all means, but be assured that the plans you make today will be changed in the future, assuming you live that long.

In the meantime, the plans of a lot of people are not working out that well. So it goes. The bottom line is that you may plan as you like, but you'll always need to be flexible in those plans if you are to avoid disappointment.

[Number23]

90. Bloo does it again! Goes where no one dares to go, but everyone should!

Well done, sir! Well done!

:rofl:

[Merlot]

10. Response to # 1 -5

1. Agreed. Although I think the banking industry is actually holding us hostage and I'm not sure that even Obama can work around this without causing full scale collapse.

2. Agreed. Probably my second biggest issue on this list.

3. See # 1

4. Legalizing hemp and decriminalizing MJ is a big issue and very serious. It will change the balance of our economy, the prison industry, law enforcement, etc. Those are big institutions that will not change quickly. I do wish he would have taken the question seriously.

5. Dog, really? Do I care? It's their life, they have to live with the dog. What if they got a rescue dog that wasn't a purebred and the allergies acted up? Lots to consider, they do what's best for their family it's none of our business.

[EFerrari]

18. And why would we even know or care except a big PR deal was made of it.

Same for the garden. Frankly, gardening is good for your mental health but if the only real manure you're going to spread is in the media, save yourself and the public the bother.

Nobody snuck up to the kitchen window and listened in to intrude on the Obamas. They themselves put these items into circulation. To turn around and blame people for being a little disappointed isn't fair.

[Merlot]

29. No one is blaming anyone for being dissapointed

I'm jsut saying I can't relate to that feeling.

[EFerrari]

31. That is different, got it. n/t

[northernlights]

42. I agree that hemp and MJ are serious issues

and I hoped that he took the topic seriously, while he laughed at the question. There is no way that he could address that issue at this time, in the current political climate.

I had also hoped that instead of addressing it directly, there would be small, incremental changes. Especially by *not* pursuing criminal cases, by focussing on crimes with real victims.

Instead it's the opposite, per Holder's recent stance. So they will fight Mexico's cartel problem by supporting our private prisons with more nonviolent U.S. citizens incarcerated.

[Deja Q]

11. Per each point:

Point #1: Let's see what happens.

Point #2: Good question. The problems with GM, et al, are due to management. President Obama has said many times the benefit of a strong middle class.

Point #3: Even during the campaign, the term "vague" wasn't inappropriate. One is currently more likely to infer he is supporting the banks. FWIW.

Point #4: Why lump dope in with a possible war criminal?

Point #5: You're grasping at straws. Sarcasm??

Point #6: It's about image. Nothing new here. If you really want to nitpick, ask the people at the Thanksgiving meal handout event if President-Elect Obama was faking it. Then we'll listen.

You lost me at #4, and given it's only been 3 months, it's possible he's just propping things up until he can formulate a coherent strategy. * left this country in a big shithole of a mess, pardon my Esperanto.

[NeedleCast]

12. Gardening, Puppies?

Those are your beefs with Obama? I'm not going to try to talk you down. In fact, I'd rather prefer you go on and jump.

[CBR]

14. What is with 5 and 6 -- especially 6?

I have a pure bred boxer named Abraham that I bought -- yeah I did it and he is my baby, wonderful dog and friend. I can understand, however, the example it would set for the Prez to get a shelter dog. Number 6 is just weird and seems personal. Michelle Obama has done a lot of things in her life through hard work and there is nothing "elite" about it.

[northernlights]

58. organic gardening isn't elitist

But the whole thing comes across as a stunt when President Obama, right around the same time, starts considering a Monsanto exec for food safety.

And I have nothing against purebred dogs. It's the way they claimed they were going to try to get a shelter dog, but as far as I can see, they didn't make any real attempt. Can you (or anyone) point to a time when they visited a shelter to look at dogs? Has anyone from a shelter written anonymously here (or in, say, petfinder) about them coming to check out any dogs?

It's symbol versus substance.

Capiche?

[GoesTo11]

20. Talk you down? Jump!

It's your life, do what you want.

[DevonRex]

21. *snort* You just wanted to gripe. If you hadn't included #5-6, you might have gotten away with it.

Unfortunately for you, you went too far. You couldn't resist the bullshit and you have been branded forevermore as nothing but a hater and a basher. The least you could do is be honest about it if you're gonna be so bad at trying to hide it.

[Deja Q]

24. Don't snort. People have written songs about using cocaine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYS732zyYfU
(6:20 long. Pity it's not 4:20 long...)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSH6LKHPLyk&feature=related
(even better)

[Why Syzygy]

45. I hope "hater" and "basher"

are considered personal attacks. She is no such thing, fyi.

[northernlights]

47. I'm neither a hater nor a basher

I've been extremely supportive of the Obamas up until now.

My points, in every case large and small, are the symbolic gestures versus the realities.

Re: point 6 You may not consider it important that Monsanto could be put in charge of food safety. Learn a little bit about the science of gardening and farming and agriculture, and you might not find that a frivolous worry.

Re: point 5 that's just a personal peeve of mine. If they hadn't made a big deal of supposedly getting a shelter dog, I would just be happy they were getting a dog. They made the symbolic statement and as far as I can see, made zero effort to back it up with substance. Again, one symbol, a very different gesture.

[uppityperson]

50. Re point 6, here is what you wrote. About Michelle.

"I have to say that she had the look of someone who has never lifted a hoe or a rake in her life, and never will again. Maybe it was because she was consciously posing for the cameras. But I find it hard to believe she'll ever be out there on a hot summers day weeding."

[northernlights]

59. and your point is?

Because my point is that it came across as a pr stunt, given that right around the same time President Obama was looking at a Monsanto executive to head food safety.

That might not mean anything to people who don't know anything about organic gardening or agriculture. It means a *lot* to those who do.

[uppityperson]

63. My point is criticize Barack for his choice, not Michelle because she

"had the look of someone who has never lifted a hoe or a rake in her life, and never will again. Maybe it was because she was consciously posing for the cameras. But I find it hard to believe she'll ever be out there on a hot summers day weeding."

That is my point. Criticize Barack for whom he was looking at, not Michelle for how she looked.

[Runcible Spoon]

86. Devonrex has branded someone a hater/basher. Imagine that.

Infantile garbage.

[Number23]

91. I know!! rofl It's so obvious!!!

:rofl:

Oh God! ((wheeze)) Usually, I'm not the slightest bit interested in this type of mess, all of the pro or anti-Obama "personal" rants. But I'm soooo glad the OP tried to frame this one as legitimate criticism and suckered me into reading this.

This the best laugh I've had all day!! Bookmarking for all eternity!! :rofl:

[scarletwoman]

25. self-delete, I changed my mind about wanting to post on this thread.

[Deja Q]

26. kubuki? Is that like bukake?

:yoiks:

[Richard Steele]

28. I share your concerns. Honestly I do. But I think it would be best if you climb down frome there.

Look, we've seen this all before. It is -NOT-
going to turn out as badly as we fear it might.

Obama is never going to be everything we WISH,
but who ever is?

Stop dwelling on the things you cannot affect.
You cannot affect global hegemonic political policy,
so just let it go.

Climb down from there, and start thinking about the tiny things
you can do every day to make the world slightly better
for yourself and the people around you.

The "Big things" are gonna get worse before they start to get better.
It'll be rough, but we're gonna get through it.
At least those of us who work TOGETHER will, knowhutImean?

[Deja Q]

32. Seconded!

:yourock:

[northernlights]

61. Thank you Richard Steele and Deja Q

I know things will get worse before they get better.

I'm just at a crossroads in my life. I'm about to make a leap of faith, and am not sure which way to leap. So I overanalyze to death, until I feel like my head may explode.

[Richard Steele]

81. Believe me, I know what you're talking about.

I have the habit of "overanalyzing things to death" myself,
and it's taken me decades to even realize that it was a problem,
let alone begin to overcome it.

If you're at a point where it's time to leap, you need to just LEAP.
Close your eyes, trust your gut, and JUMP without looking down.
It's scary for the first few seconds,
but it almost always works out for the best.

Scary or not, it's more effective than sitting around overthinking things.
That never works out in any direction at all.

[Fire1]

83. I'm not going to admonish you or make condescending

remarks. I think I know how you feel. I'm not getting any younger and there are serious decisions that I'm going to have to make during the next three or four years. Fortunately, by that time, I will know exactly which way to go, based on what happens in the interim. I also assume that President Obama is looking for 8 years in office. So, what does that tell you? We're all going to know a hell of alot more than we know now.

[ohheckyeah]

33. If both 5 and 6

really bother you I think you are taking things way too seriously. What is it you want talked down from? Are you getting ready to jump out a window? Seriously, I don't understand what you want to be talked down from. If it's all getting to you, take a break. It's not like the world is going to hell in a hand basket if you aren't paying attention.

[northernlights]

51. no, I'm getting ready to make a decision

about continuing in school and walking away from that and making a 2nd stab at what I tried back on '03 when * starting making noises about attacking Iraq.

I figured then that we were done as a country -- that the economy would be blown apart beyond repair. I moved to the country, bought a minifarm, and tried to start over.

I worked my sorry butt off, learned a lot of (expensive) lessons, and then 18 months ago went back to school to try to start over again in health care.

Now I'm at a crossroads and have to make the decision fairly soon. Once I sell my minifarm, I can either use what's left of my life savings to finish school. Or I can downsize the house and location and apply my minifarm lessons learned in the last 6 years.

One option is best if the economy totally tanks. The other option is best if the economy recovers within a couple years. If it takes longer than that, I'll be homeless and starving before I'm working again.

I'd like to give it 6 months (per reply below) but don't have 6 months to give it. The decisions have to be made within about 2-3 months. So I am feeling the pressure. And as happy as I was with President Obama's early decisions -- they weren't necessarily my first choices, but I could rationalize them -- that's how unhappy I am with his recent decisions.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

39. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[northernlights]

44. no, I'm crying because Monsanto may be put in charge of food safety

Michelle is the symbol. Monsanto is the substance.

[Occam Bandage]

55. Then talk about the FDA and not about Michelle Obama gardening without that expert touch. nt

[Bluenorthwest]

46. Says the one who whines 'there is little here but anger'

amazing.

[earth mom]

40. You lost me with being okay with increased warmongering based on a LIE.

That Obama has pushed for more war should tell everyone that we are looking at an administration very similar to the * administration.

McCain/Palin would have pretty much the same-I don't see them doing anything different than Obama has done.

Which is very alarming when you think about it.

I was freaked out about Palin and her fundie ways but hell, Obama is keeping *'s Faith Based office which has NO place in government-which is clearly stated in the Constitution.

Obama, the so called Constitutional "scholar" should know this, but I guess he ain't so "scholarly" after all. :eyes:

Yep, there's a TON of hypocrisy in the Obama administration, and people should not pick and choose the lessor of evils to justify their support of Obama.

Everyone knows the Iraq war and the current escalation is wrong as hell.

If there was one thing DU was united upon a year or so ago was that the war in the middle east is total bullshit.

And it is total hypocrisy on the part of Obama supporters to justify the war in the middle east because all of it is based on a LIE.

Genocide is being perpetrated in the name of the American people-Thanks this time to Obama, not *.



So, maybe it's better that Obama was elected instead of McCain.

Maybe people like you will learn something.

The writing is on the wall:

There is NO difference between the parties

AND

The elected officials in Washington DC are almost ALL corrupt with few exceptions.

Wake up and smell the corruption.

[SpartanDem]

95. If you believe that

there's no difference then you're a idiot. Yeah I can see McCain pushing for higher taxes on the wealthy or shutting tax havens. Or how about something more recent like pushing for passage of the comprehensive test ban treaty that sounds exactly like McCain/Palin policy to me.

[tjwash]

41. grow up...

...that would be very a good start.

Then become familiar with the words from "you can't always get what you want" from the stones.

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Number 4

Actually the question as it was asked was not poorly tuned. The President rewrote and truncated the question to fit his punch line. What bothered me about it the most was that fact. He put stupid words into the mouths of the askers, and then laughed at them for what HE said. Rude and rude again.
The question presented was well worded and far more broad than the cartoon dialouge Obama delivered, claiming it was a question from the people.

[northernlights]

49. huh? (oh wait, never mind...I remember now)

So you're saying the question was planted?

He rephrased the question before he answered it. I don't remember the details any more, but remember overall how it went.

(I do also remember thinking, as soon as the person asked the question, that there is no way he can address that issue right now in the way I'd like it addressed -- it would be political suicide. But now that Holder has spoken out, I realize I was wrong. I guess he really was laughing at the question.)

[Why Syzygy]

48. The thing

that bothers me about the "stimulus"/tax breaks, is anything the fed is *giving* is being taken right away with increased sales taxes. :shrug: Nothing.

I'm disappointed because I dared "hope". A little.
Now, he just goes into the same pocket with all the rest of them.
.. you know. Until he actually DOES something for us.

[marmar]

56. People who say "talk me down" usually don't want to be talked down, just to vent.....

...... so at least can the disingenuousness.

[northernlights]

60. no, not just venting

facing a large life decision with a deadline that's looming closer.

One choice works best if the economy recovers in a reasonable time frame. Otherwise, it works horribly. The other works best if the economy tanks to depression levels.

And I see a pattern with the President of making a symbolic gesture in one direction exactly as he makes substantive policy decisions in the opposite direction. Or in the case of the gardening, Michelle making the symbolic gesture while he makes the substantive decisions.

And I'm very, very, very concerned about:

1. Summers/Geithner driving economic policy
2. Monsanto running food safety
3. insufficient stimulus in education or health care to support my one choice, just enough stimulus to destroy the 2nd choice.

[LWolf]

57. I can't.

I can tell you that I like the garden on the WH lawn, and I never expected her to actually get her hands dirty.

That doesn't excuse Vilsack.

I can tell you that, while a shelter dog would have been nice, I don't think a pedigreed pooch is a big deal. I'd rather focus on making sure that all dogs that don't belong to licensed, RESPONSIBLE breeders, are spayed and neutered before they have a chance to reproduce.

I DO have a problem with increasing our forces in Afghanistan.

I DO have a problem with the timeline in Iraq.

I DO have a problem with the stimulus bill, especially the education portion.

I have watched Obama use ambiguous statements that people interpret according to their own preferences for more than a year now, and it disgusts me.

Summers/Geithner? I wouldn't give them the keys to the damned outhouse.

The only thing I can guarantee you is that McCain/Palin would have been worse. I think. If only because that psycho Palin would have been way too close to the actual presidency for comfort.

Just because I didn't want McCain/Palin, then or now, doesn't mean that I think Obama's election was positive, or that he is moving us in a positive direction. It's possible to oppose his agenda, his words, and/or his actions without supporting republicans or McCain/Palin.

[mvd]

65. Some good points there, LWolf

I don't mind a temporary support role and focus on Al Qaeda, but why have combat forces increased? I'm not happy that after seeing Iraq, Hillary apparently supported a nation building plan.

I also think there's no reason a good portion of forces in Iraq can't just come home now.

Your post on education was convincing, and I'm watching to see if double standards continue in regards to banking/auto industries.

[LWolf]

76. Thanks.

I, too, am watching.

I will be THRILLED to see unambiguous, clear-cut positive action in any of those areas. Meanwhile, my guard is definitely up.

[northernlights]

80. the "nation building" makes me glad Hillary didn't win

my understanding of keeping large forces in Iraq is to keep violence squelched until after the elections next December. Then the major drawdown happens, but even after that too many will be left behind. And that's assuming they are able or have the will to stick to this plan.

[bvar22]

82. The OP wasn't questioning the purchase of a Pedigree.

What the OP was questioning was purchasing a Pedigree Dog AFTER doing a Media Hype on how they were humble/non-elite, and were going to get a Shelter Dog.

Media Hyping One Thing, and then doing the opposite.

[whathehell]

67. In regard to the dog..I thought they were getting a Portugese Water from a Rescue

..not the same as a breeder.

[northernlights]

78. per tweetie show this morning, the dog is from a very close friend

and a "pedigreed pooch" so either the very close friend is involved in rescues (with papers in hand?), in which case I'm wrong. Or the very close friend either breeds or knows a breeder or is gifting them.

They're fairly rare dogs here, and expensive, so pretty unlikely to be found in a rescue. Although these days, who knows? Dogs, cats, horses and birds are being abandoned right and left.

[whathehell]

96. Not to nitpick, but when people say "pedigreed" they often just mean "purebred"

the papers don't always come into it...Judging by everything else you say, though, it doesn't sound good.

[tbyg52]

69. I could care less about #6, but as for the rest, I am with you. nt

[Juche]

70. Progressive reform will take our lifetimes

I remember a quote on KOS that went something like '2006 was not the end of the race for victory, merely the beginning' and it is true. 2006 helped, and 2008 helped but there is always work to do. Its not going to be perfect overnight and we are going to have to work our whole lives to reverse the damage Reagan and Bush have done to this country.

I would love it if Obama did the things you recommend, but he likely wont. However we can still pressure him and other politicans to change their tune, even if it takes 4-8 years to do so.

[TexasObserver]

71. No. But I will invite you to go ahead and jump.

I have a "no talk down" policy.

Seriously, if you need someone to talk you down, stop watching news until you can do so without asking others to talk you down.

[Midlodemocrat]

77. .

:nopity:

[northernlights]

79. and Mr.Coffee didn't know ragdoll cat

:shrug:

[Midlodemocrat]

85. Your point? You been a Jeopardy champ lately?

Didn't think so.

[femrap]

84. It's always your own Party that

breaks your heart. I woke up after the '06 Election and there was nothing done to get those 2 criminals impeached.

I knew from the start that Obama was Corporate owned...the entire government is.

If we really want to 'change' things, we need to stop calling/emailing/protesting the government and go after The Fed and The Corporations.

You're at the stage in the process which I call 'Betrayal' and it hurts. Take charge of yourself and assume YOUR power. You are your own heroine...no one else and especially not a politician...OK?

Feel better.

[alarimer]

88. I've stopped believing in him altogether because of the Geithner and other appointments.

And the fact that he was FOR single payer (as a rep in Illinois) and, now that lobbyists have his ear more than the people who elected him, is against it. All the banksters are in charge now.

So I'm tuning out permanently. I doubt I will ever vote again. Same shit, just a different letter.

[salguine]

98. Props to you for having the balls to just say it. I feel the same way.

[Downtown Hound]

89. Big fucking yawn

God damn people. Some of the people on this board are some of the whiniest, most self-absorbed, and defeatist crybabies around. I'm sorry, I really don't mean to be so hostile, but I'm sick of all the crybaby bullshit. I'm not happy with everything Obama has done either, but give it a rest. I never expected Obama to be a radical progressive. He campaigned on a centrist platform, and that's what he's doing. He took the helm at a time of extraordinary challenge for the nation, and I think he's done an amazing job overall. I hear every one of your complaints, and I agree with some of them. But this whole "give it all up thing?" Get over it. The fight has just begun. Getting Obama elected was only the beginning. If you expected it to be the end, then I'm sorry to disappoint you.

Pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and keep moving forward. But enough of the defeatist crap.

[Number23]

92. I honestly can't tell if you're serious or not

Which kind of says all I need to know...

[kid a]

93. you forgot the sarcasm tag - or, you lost all credibility with #6

[northernlights]

97. you may be fine with Monsanto running food safety

A LOT of people are not fine with that, and for pretty good, reasons. Just go read the thread on Monsanto...the reasons are spelled out there.

[Hannah Bell]

94. i can't believe you put the gardening & the dog on the list.

i could tell she didn't know how to use a shovel, but so what? she's not the white house gardener.

[DevonRex]

102. That is what puts this OP in the pure bullshit class. nt

[BlooInBloo]

99. JUMP! JUMP! JUMP!

[HamdenRice]

100. 3, 4, 5, and six are pure unadulterated horseshit.

3. Because OTHER PEOPLE spin Obama's words, you're pissed at Obama?

4. Obama laughed at the suggestion that hemp would solve the economic crisis -- and well he did. It was a lunatic idea.

As for Holter, he announced THE DECRMINIALIZATION OF LEGITIMATE MEDICAL MARIJUANA. You're either lying or misinformed.

5. Puppies? Are you out of your mind?

6. The first lady doesn't look like a farmer?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

103. WAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Oh give me a break. What dog he got? Michelle in the garden?

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