Can cleaning fossil fuel be cheaper than green alternatives.

[C......N......C]

Can black coal be made green?

[msongs]

1. can lead be turned into gold yet? nt

[C......N......C]

5. Diamonds are made out of coal.

Some large enough to use in jewelery.

[Javaman]

10. But does your girlfriend scream and yell with delight over a cubic zirconium? nt

[C......N......C]

14. Not a CZ. Diamond, a real diamond made in a lab out of coal.

Perfect flawless diamond used in jewelery. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-are-artificial-diamonds.htm

[Javaman]

17. how about that!

but to your original point: there is no such thing as clean coal, because as much as people scream and yell about it's CO2 footprint, there are a lot worst things that it expells.

http://www.smfrancis.demon.co.uk/airwolvs/23healthmetal.html

[C......N......C]

19. Thanks for the link. I was wondering if there was a coal solution.

[Javaman]

22. I think a lot of people were hoping for the same thing...

but sadly, it's what's not told about it, that gave people false hope.

[pnutbutr]

2. with a bit of paint nt

[KittyWampus]

3. Coal can be made "cleaner" but it's not perfect. It is, however, necessary for the immediate future

as cheap/easy petroleum supplies diminish.

Coal is the short-term answer. I hate to say that.

IMO, the Left would be well advised to push for protecting miners and advocating least destructive mining techniques rather than railing against something that's going to happen anyway.

[Javaman]

11. There is a colossal disconnect in our society...

people want to stop using less coal, yet it is responsible for 50% of all our power needs in this nation.

if we stopped it tomorrow, society as we know it, would grind to a halt.

what needs to be done, if we are going to move away from coal is to begin the conversion of our water treatment plants, various municipal buildings and most of all (and it may sound really odd) street lamps to solar. (like the ones the US installed in Baghdad).

This to me would show a concrete effort to start using cleaner "fuels".

Until that point, small efforts are good, but until we start seeing some really sweeping efforts, coal sadly is here to stay for a very long time, or until it runs out.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. What we NEED to do is offer huge tax incentives to the extraction

industries to change their focus to developing alternate energy sources, so the coal/oil/gas companies have a reason to get behind, and profit from, the new industries instead of obstructing them.

[Javaman]

24. very true.

making it financially beneficial would be a very good start.

[ConcernedCanuk]

25. "if we stopped it tomorrow, society as we know it, would grind to a halt." - no that is not true -

.
.
.

We adapt.

This winter, early January my landlady cut off my electric heat, then my hydro totally.

I am fortunate in many respects, one being that I live in an 18 foot trailer with a wee propane heater, oven and stove - I burnt out the oven part trying to keep warm,

but survived, sleeping with long-johns and sox on as I did as a kid during NATURAL power outages.

I also have a small generator, that I ran consistently at first, but the gas cost was prohibitive so I resorted only to using it a few hours a day for heat, and had enuf left over to enjoy the internet for a bit.

Propane cost exceeded what I would have been giving her for rent - long story - not here - but so now my money is STILL spent on propane for heat, but she has turned on my 110 hydro for legal reasons, but left my heat circuit off.

We adapt.

I lost two job opportunities, and am now ill as a result of lack of facilities and poor heat distribution - my baseboard heat no longer works as it is cut off from the main house(hers)

Point is

WE ADAPT.

I am nowhere near dead, and when my trailer and belongings (outbuildings I built/own) are un-thawed from the ground,

Our Social Services will help finance my move.

I survived with NO hydro during -30 weather, and still surviving, though not really enjoying it, with excess costs and discomfort.

Tent Cities in the USA - they survive, not comfortably by any stretch of the imagination - -

I sorta got a "high-class" tent-city type of a situation here because I at least have a self-contained living unit.

WE WILL SURVIVE- but our life styles will change.

Do you realize how many BOOKS I read below a 12 volt bulb when the hydro was off and the minimal hydro available afterward was needed for even a wee bit of heat?

Yeah

BOOKS, not the net took up more of my time.

Not actually a loss in that respect.

Things to ponder . . .

[Javaman]

26. oh lord...

Just because you feel you are some sort of modern day Jack London, doesn't mean everyone is like you. Our society as a whole has become so interdepentant on eletricity, that society, like I said before, as we know it, would collapse.

try and give it some critical thought, okay?

anything and everything that relies on coal power would stop.

That means, turbines, which means: water treatment plants, electric lights, all forms of electric transportation, all traffic signals would stop functioning, shall I go on? There isn't enough alternative power right now on the grid to run a full city let alone society.

I experienced the Northridge earthquake and didn't have power for a week. I know exactly what I speak of. I saw the water and food riots that weren't reported in the news. I saw the wanton looting. Is that what you consider adapting?

You are one person, try and expand your "adapting" to a city or a nation. Your concept of adapting falls apart.

Adapting on a large scale, comes much later, usually about 3 weeks later after the rioting.

We are so far removed from the world around us, I bet you if you asked 10 people if they know how to make a fire from scratch or filter water for drinking, I bet 9 out of 10 wouldn't know how.

Try reading the book, "a world without us". In just two days without power, the NY city subways would flood completely.

[RaleighNCDUer]

4. No.

It can be made green-ER, but it can't be made green; nor can it be done more cheaply than developing renewable energy sources. I believe we have already hit a tipping point. Even if we stopped producing atmospheric greenhouse gasses entirely, today, we would still not prevent the loss of glaciers world wide,affecting availability of fresh water for literally billions of people, and the loss of the Greenland ice-cap, causing a 20' rise in ocean levels. Those things ARE going to happen, and the best we can do is to mitigate the problem, and maybe keep the Antarctic ice sheets intact, though renewable energy and learning how to sequester atmospheric carbon. "Green coal" WILL produce carbon dioxide - less, perhaps, than standard use of coal, but there is no way to make it 100%, or even 50% 'clean'. It will only perpetuate the problem.

[Hydra]

6. No

Our efforts should be going into making green energy cheap- every year it seems we find better ways to do it, yet people push for "clean coal" and nuclear with the argument that they are somehow cheaper.

[C......N......C]

7. I am puzzled by T. Boone Pickens calling for the re-powering of America

and then giving $160,000,000 to the U of Oklahoma Golf program instead of the Science program. Is there logic in this.

[Javaman]

12. don't listen to t. bonehead pickens...

that show boating fool is all about natural gas and water rights. Don't be fooled by his rhetoric. He screams and yells for the need of wind, but yet has to invest a cent in it.

remember he's the same tool that funded the swiftboaters against kerry. That alone is enough for me, not to listen to the cretin.

but a close examination of his "alternative energy" ideas, only reveals that he's out for himself and no one else.

he's the king of smoke and mirrors.

[C......N......C]

18. Thanks for the insight. I listened to him talk about repowering America

and it made sense until I saw that he gave the 160 mil to the golf program instead of the science program.

[salguine]

8. No. The whole "clean coal" thing is a big pile of coal industry bullshit.

[The2ndWheel]

9. Cheap energy of any kind won't be green

The cheaper the energy, the more we'll do with it, increasing the scale of our economic activity, which won't decrease the impact we have on the planet.

[ThomWV]

13. The short answer is yes and no

If you are really interested in this I can put you in contact with the world's leading experts in the subject.

[C......N......C]

15. I would appreciate that. I was a supporter of the smokestack scrubbers

that apparently did nothing but put a lot of coalminers out of work. I have been around long enough to know not to believe very much of either side of an argument.

[ThomWV]

16. I'll contact you by private message

First you should know that I worked at the National Lab that did the coal cleanup but I'll have to contact the fellow who I think is best able to give you the history and facts on this to see if he minds. For what its worth this is the guy who was in charge of a major part of the carbon cleanup problem for about a decade before he went over to the weapons side.

[C......N......C]

20. Thanks and check this out, you may have first hand information.

http://www.argee.net/Thrawn%20Rickle/Thrawn%20Rickle%2036.htm

[C......N......C]

21. And this

http://www.sepp.org/Archive/controv/controversies/epavskrug.html Go to go to work now. Later.