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Best explanation of how science approaches extraordinary claims (aka "woo")

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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 12:39 PM
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Best explanation of how science approaches extraordinary claims (aka "woo")
Those who make extraordinary claims (such as those arguing in favor of alternative medicine), frequently chide science for its conservatism and the high hurdles it sets for new ideas to be accepted. Having engaged in debates with alt med proponents myself, I have constantly heard the comparison of the theories behind treatments like oscillating frequency therapy or colloidal silver to Copernican cosmology or plate tectonics, once radical ideas that are now accepted as mainstream science. Alt med is ahead of the curve, these proponents claim, and all it will take is a paradigm shift to make everything alt the new standard.

In fact, the author of this post(David Gorski from the blog Science Based Medicine) explains very cogently that Kuhn's ideas about scientific revolutions and paradigm shifts are relevant to explaining why science adopts a skeptical approach, but not as the alt proponents might think:

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=442


One of the most common refrains from advocates of quackery and “complementary and alternative medicine” (CAM) is the charge of being “close-minded,” that they reject out of hand any idea that does not fit within their world view. Of course, this is a canard, given that science, including science-based medicine, thrives on the open and free exchange of ideas, and it is not “close-mindedness” that (usually) leads to the rejection of dubious claims. Rather, it is the knowledge that, for many of such claims to be true, huge swaths of our current scientific understanding would have to be in error to such an extent that a major paradigm shift in various basic science would be necessary. While such paradigm shifts occasionally occur, they do not occur without the confluence of huge amounts of evidence, often coming from different fields and directions. In other words, to show that a paradigm is wrong or seriously incomplete requires evidence even more compelling than the evidence supporting the paradigm.

This video, via The World’s Fair, explains why when woo-meisters wrap themselves in the mantle of “open-mindedness” it’s almost always a crock:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T69TOuqaqXI&feature=player_embedded

I’ll have to keep this video around for my medical students to help them counter the inevitable charge of “close-mindedness” by CAM advocates. In fact, the part at the end, with the blond guy letting all sorts of rubbish into his brain because he has no critical thinking filter while demanding that others accept his views without evidence reminds me very much of a male version of Jenny McCarthy, full of the arrogance of ignorance. If the cartoon weren’t of such a good-looking young man, I’d say it was J.B. Handley, although the video does get the cartoonishness right.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 12:42 PM
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1. Colloidal Silver? Wanna Be Papa Smurf?











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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 12:47 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. See Also: 77. Senator Smurf
Edited on Mon Apr-06-09 12:48 PM by Ian David
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Vickers Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 12:53 PM
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3. You know what you need? Some crystals.
:P
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NoodleyAppendage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 01:04 PM
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4. AWESOME video...and a good use of Jack Kirby comic art! n/t
J
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 01:17 PM
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5. Both sides know that knowledge is relevant to its context. The struggle is over
Edited on Mon Apr-06-09 01:18 PM by patrice
the context.

I think the characterization of CMA as desiring to throw out empirical science is false. Yes, there are kooks around, but the problem serious minded CMA proponents have is that they need tools that have not been developed yet and all of the "tool makers" want to control the context, so they have markets for their tools.
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hunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 02:47 PM
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6. Maybe as an intro to the The Cochrane Collaboration...
http://www.cochrane.org

But I doubt this video will accomplish anything much with med students. Maybe physical torture would work better. Strap them to a chair, show them pictures of drug reps, and zap them with a cattle prod. A picture of a pretty drug rep bringing free lunch and samples.... ZAP! An insurance rep... ZAP! A nutritional supplement sales rep... ZAP!

Typical med students grossly overestimate their skeptical abilities because they got to be med students by memorizing lots of stuff uncritically. They almost have no time to be critical of all the science stuff the universities are pouring into their heads, so it's up to the university to make sure there isn't too much crap science in that stuff.

The biggest problem in medicine today is all the woo-woo coming from the pharmaceutical companies, and not so much the woo-woo of the complementary and alternative medicine crowd. The pharmaceutical companies have a much bigger budget, and they've weaseled their way into the universities too. Too many doctors think the crap research funded by the pharmaceutical companies is actually science and don't recognize it as fancy woo-woo marketing all dressed up to look like science.
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:57 PM
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7. The fact that you don't want to let go of old theories and paradigms = close mindedness
Seriously, everyone has written their brilliant dissertations on this or that part of established science, and none of those people want to look like stupid jerks for rabidly believing the wrong thing. Human nature.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. And yet so many non brilliant dissertation writers are eager to give up old theories and paradigms
they don't fully understand in the first place. They're only too eager to look like stupid jerks for rabidly believing the wrong thing. And that's human nature, too!
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soothsayer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-06-09 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
8. The fact that you don't want to let go of old theories and paradigms = close mindedness
Seriously, everyone has written their brilliant dissertations on this or that part of established science, and none of those people want to look like stupid jerks for rabidly believing the wrong thing. Human nature.
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