Don't die, your credit card company, if it is Chase, will not lower

[yy4me]

the interest on your account balance.

I recently called Chase to tell them that my husband had died and that I have been paying off and will continue to pay his balance. It occurred to me that I had not done so and that there should be no activity on the account. I just got a letter asking me to sign that I will be paying it off. My name is not on the account. I will pay it anyway but today I called to ask if they would lower the interest rate for me. There will be no more charges, just a check each month until it is a zero balance.

Their answer? "Sorry, we can't do that since your name was not on the account." I will transfer this balance to my credit card as soon as I can and Chase can go to blazes.

It seems that only the card-holder can ask for a lower rate, not his estate. Doesn't matter what your circumstances are.

I can't even stand talking to these guys. The Customer Service woman had a very righteous tone in you voice.

[WeDidIt]

1. You might not be liable

You probably don't have to pay.

since they won't lower the rate, I'd check it out. Your name wasn't on the accoount, the accoount holder is now deceased, they should write it off.

[varkam]

6. Except she signed something that they sent her.

I'd assume that she wouldn't be liable, otherwise.

[WeDidIt]

11. Ahh, didn't catch that

Oh werll, might be too late now.

[varkam]

12. Well, depending on how it was worded, what it looked like, or even how big the debt is...

she might be able to get it rescinded. If the debt is huge and she didn't really know what she was signing, it might be void as unconscionable. She might also be able to get out of it on the basis of lack of consideration: she's promising to take on the debt and pay it, but what is she getting in return? Though I'm not sure if the consideration angle is applicable when talking about taking on other's debts - but I'm not an expert on contracts. My initial reaction is that if she promised to pay the debt and knew what she was promising that most courts are going to enforce that promise.

[yy4me]

18. The debt is just a couple of thousand dollars and I have not

signed the letter(and probably will not) but my conversation saying I will pay it is recorded. I will pay it off, it is what my husband would have thought right. It will be as quick as possible and it will be a pleasure cutting up that card.

[varkam]

21. If you don't want to pay it...

don't sign the letter. I don't think it matters that they have your voice recorded - it could take more than a year to pay it off and it's a surety so it falls within the Statute of Frauds (which means that stuff like that has to be in writing). I would, of course, consult an attorney, but if you have not signed the letter and don't want to pay it then I don't think they can legally obligate you to pay it. I think places like that might just want to get you on the recording to make you think that you're already obligated to pay it and signing the letter is really just a formality - but the letter is where it's all at. Big disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer and not an expert on contracts, so please talk to someone who is.

If you do want to pay it, on the other hand, well...then sign away.

[WVRICK13]

30. Ethics

are misplaced where CHASE is concerned. Who cares if they have your voice recorded. Politely ignore them now and forever more. Return the unopened statements with deceased written on the envelope. My parents owed them a large sum of money. I was going to pay it so they would stop calling my parents every day. When I called and tried to negotiate a lower rate or a reduced amount for payment in full they refused to negotiate even though my parents gave them permission to talk with me. I informed them my parents were broke and live in one of my houses on social security. CHASE responded with some rude answer. I had my parents phone number changed and unlisted; then I wrote CHASE a letter stating what I just said above. They called and wanted to settle. I told them no thanks, you had your chance. If they would rather harass two 88 year old people than take lower interest then they can insert their attitude where it will never need tanning lotion.

[liberalhistorian]

44. Amen!

nt

[dysfunctional press]

41. if i die before my wife- i don't want her paying any bills she's not legally liable for.

ESPECIALLY the bank and credit card companies. they've gotten plenty of usurious interest and fees over the years to more than cover any balance that remains.

my wife is going to need her money.

[dysfunctional press]

39. she didn't say that she signed it- she said that she just got it...

and that they wanted her to sign it.

[varkam]

42. I noticed that. Thanks. eom

[bluestateguy]

2. Don't pay them anything

If it's not your account you have no legal obligation to pay off the bill.

[prolesunited]

3. If they are married, I think she does have to pay it

even if her name wasn't on the account.

I'm sure there's a lawyer here who would know the answer, which probably varies by state.

[bain_sidhe]

7. great minds might think alike...

but your fingers are faster!

[Xithras]

27. Only in the nine community property states.

Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin. In those states, all assets and liabilities are shared between spouses. In the other 41 states, the OP has no legal obligation to pay her spouses bills.

[liberalhistorian]

43. No, that isn't necessarily true.

The only time spouses are liable for debts is if it's a joint account, they're a co-signer, or they live in one of the community property states. If none of those circumstances apply, then the spouse is NOT legally liable no matter how much a bloodsucking collectroll tries to guilt them into thinking otherwise.

If the surviving spouse is not liable for the debt, then the creditor must go through probate court and file a claim with the estate. The ESTATE is responsible for the payment of the debt, not the executor or the spouse. Creditors know this, but they also know that most people do not know it and they will often attempt to guilt the spouse into paying even when they know they're not responsible. In fact, the New York Times just had an expose last month on how banks and credit card companies are even setting up "death collection units" that are focused exclusively on collecting from surviving spouses and even family members BEFORE filing any claims with the estate through probate court as they're supposed to do. They even scour death notices and call spouses and/or family members to guilt them into paying when they KNOW they aren't supposed to legally do that and when they KNOW the spouses and/or family members aren't personally liable and they must go through the estate. They're nothing but scum, frankly.

If the OP isn't in a community property state, then she isn't personally responsible for the debt and she needs to tell Chase to file a claim with the estate. PERIOD. If they don't like it, tough fucking shit. It's the law.

[bain_sidhe]

4. And above all, don't sign anything saying you will

That makes you contractually obligated to pay a debt that is not yours, and that you might not be liable for. (I say "might not" because I really don't know if this is the sort of thing that depends on state marriage laws, like property rights in divorce differs from state to state.)

[williesgirl]

5. Don't sign anything nor pay one more penny. You are NOT liable for this debt. When my husband died

8 years ago, he had one credit card in his name only. They pissed me off so badly at the time that I finally just said screw you. They had to write it off.

Don't be foolish. You can't hurt his good name with this. I'm sorry for your loss, more than you'll know since I know what's ahead for you.

[Rabrrrrrr]

8. Fuck 'em. Tell 'em to see you in probate if they want anything.

You went FAR above and beyond what you needed to do, and made an offer to them, which they told you to go fuck yourself for.

So, stop paying.

And don't literally tell them to see you in probate - let them figure it out.

When my mom died, we knew she still had a few hospital bills left to pay - we tried like to damn to pay them, even told the hospital that mom had died, but the hospital would give us the run around when we tried to find out how much.

So we said "Fuck 'em".

Two years later, they sent us a bill. We sent them a letter saying, "Sorry - we tried working with you, gave up, and then 1.5 years ago, we legally closed her estate, so you get nothing."

[Demobrat]

9. You are not liable for this debt.

Of course the cc company will tell you to "do the right thing" and pay it off. But "the right thing" in this case is right for them, not you.

[OregonBlue]

10. We too have been dealing with Chase. Have written to our Senators about their shoddy

practices. They keep calling us and yes, they are very self-righteous. They suck!! We plan to mortgage our house (currently free and clear) and pay off all of our balances. I hate these credit card blood suckers. Especially Chase.

[GentryDixon]

15. Go to a Credit Union and get a loan.

They are honest and local.

[propagandagirl]

33. I don't know anymore ....

If they are THAT much better. The credit union I have used for the last ten years just reduced my home equity line of credit, leaving an available balance of ZERO. Without even so much as a letter! There goes that much needed new roof....

[GentryDixon]

35. These loans are only good for 5 years, then you must refile.

Perhaps that was the case.

[propagandagirl]

38. Only had the line of credit for about two years...

The woman at the credit union branch I use told me she has had more than a few members with the same problem in the last few weeks. No letter, No notice, no more funds. :(

[yy4me]

16. I am liable for this balance or they will go after the estate.

We do not have much and I do not want to drag this thing on. I fail to see how they can tell me, the executrix of the estate, that since I am not my husband, they can't reduce the rate. If my husband was here, it never would come up.

I have not signed the letter and probably will not.(gee, sorry, I seemed to have misplaced it.) I'm just going to get rid of them, once and for all. The sad thing is, my card is B of A. Got me there too. I have a balance and I don't like their practices. Is there such a thing as a credit card company that actually cares that we are "customers"?

The only part of this whole thing that has a redeeming factor is that his balance was incurred last spring when we took a long planned family trip. Our intention was to pay it within the few months after our return. Sometimes even the best intentions.........

[Toucano]

22. Don't transfer it to your name and stop paying.

Then will call eventually and offer to settle the account, perhaps for 60 cents on the dollar or less.

It will be paid, it will be settled and you won't get shafted paying exorbitant interest.

[varkam]

24. Oh, and if you're the executrix of the estate...

then it also has to be in writing as, otherwise, it would violate the Statute of Frauds (which I'm pretty sure is universal among the states, though I could be wrong - so before you thumb your nose at Chase I'd recommend talking to a lawyer).

But, on the whole, I think that so long as you don't put anything in writing, there's nothing that they can do to saddle you with the debt.

[liberalhistorian]

45. MAKE them file a claim with the estate!

Credit cards are unsecured creditors, which means they are paid LAST in an estate, after everything else is paid. And they can't take any life insurance money or retirement money that's part of the estate and there's a lot of other stuff in the estate that they can't take. So LET them come after the estate, that's the legal process and what they're supposed to do anyway, not come after you personally. You are NOT personally liable for this.

[KharmaTrain]

13. Speak With An Estate Attorney

I'm sorry on your loss. I've had to deal with several estates and working with creditors is a major pain. All they care is money...even to the extent of losing any human emotion. Shameful. Thus why I strongly suggest you speak with an Estate attorney, I'm sure you have rights that could be exercized here...or at least have someone represent you with these bloodsuckers. You've got enough to handle to let these asshats get to you.

Cheers...

[ThomWV]

20. That is what I was thinking

You said it well. You know, a person would think that if, in setteling the immediate estate, the executor did not realize enough money to pay off creditors then each would received their proportional share from what was available. Then the probate judge would bang the gavel and fuck whatever else was owed to the card company. Let them visit the grave site and demand payment of the earth.

[malaise]

14. A friend sent this to me last week

Don't know if it's true but you made me think it maybe.

A lady died this past January, and Citibank billed her February and March for annual service charges on her credit card, and added late fees and interest on the monthly charge. The balance had been $0.00 when she died, but is now somewhere around $60.00. A family member placed a call to Citibank to have them correct the problem.

Here is the exchange:

Family Member: “I am calling to tell you she died back in January.”
Citibank: “The account was never closed and the late fees and charges still apply.”
Family Member: “Maybe, you should turn it over to collections.”
Citibank: “Since it is two months past due, it already has been.”
Family Member: “So, what will they do when they find out she is dead?”
Citibank: “Either report her account to frauds division or report her to the credit bureau, maybe both!”
Family Member: “Do you think God will be mad at her?”
Citibank: “Excuse me?”
Family Member: “Did you just get what I was telling you - the part about her being dead?”
Citibank: “Sir, you'll have to speak to my supervisor.”

Supervisor gets on the phone:

Family Member: “I'm calling to tell you, she died in January with a $0 balance.”
Citibank: “The account was never closed and late fees and charges still apply.”
Family Member: “You mean you want to collect from her estate?”
Citibank: (Stammer) “Are you her lawyer?”
Family Member: “No, I'm her great nephew.” (Lawyer info was also given)
Citibank: “Could you fax us 2 copies of a certificate of death?”
Family Member: “Sure.” (Fax number given)

After they get the fax:

Citibank: “Our system just isn't set up for death. I don't know what more I can do to help.”
Family Member: “Well, if you figure it out, great! If not, you could just keep billing her. She won't care.”
Citibank: “Well, the late fees and charges will still apply.”

(What is wrong with these people?!?)

Family Member: “Would you like her new billing address?”
Citibank: “That might help...”
Family Member: “Odessa Memorial Cemetery, Highway 129, Plot Number 69.”
Citibank: “Sir, that's a cemetery!”
Family Member: “And what do you do with dead people on your planet???”

[WeDidIt]

17. Snopes doesn't say it's false

but it is unlikely:

http://www.snopes.com/business/bank/deadcard.asp

[Merlot]

23. May be false, but to easy to believe.

Who hasn't had conversatons with the reps who keep repeating the same words from their book over and over no matter what you say.

At times I feel sorry for those people, they're between a rock and a hard place and the life has just been squeezed out of them. The stupid speeches their companies make them say "how may I provide you with excellent service?" is just demeaning.

[L0oniX]

19. They wouldn't lower the rate anyway. They are changing terms and raising rates for everyone.

Be happy they aren't raising the rates for you. I closed my checking account with them over this and I am not alone. Sorry to hear about your husband.

[truebrit71]

25. Why are you paying it off at all?

:shrug:

[orleans]

26. what state are you in? that might make the only difference...

from googling:

Individual credit card accounts. For credit cards issued solely in your spouse’s name, it’s simply a matter of contacting the card issuer and requesting that the card account be closed. As a surviving spouse, you are not responsible for the payment of these accounts and many credit card companies will write off the debt owed to them.

Be aware that in community property states, credit card accounts opened by either spouse may be considered joint accounts. So in some states a surviving spouse might be responsible for the payments of credit cards opened in their spouse’s name.

Community property states include Arizona, California, Idaho, Louisiana, Nevada, New Mexico, Texas, Washington and Wisconsin. If you live in these states and have questions about the payment responsibilities regarding your spouse’s credit card accounts, contact an attorney.

http://www.credit.com/credit_information/credit_help/After-the-Death-of-a-Spouse.jsp

[prolesunited]

28. Looks like she's in Massachussetts and not liable

Don't pay it. They are just trying to guilt you into paying something you're not responsible for. That's probably why they sent that letter, which *WILL* make you liable for it if you sign it. They have no legal standing to go after you without it.

It's a trap!

[orleans]

46. i hope the op comes back to this thread and keeps reading it. n/t

[More_liberal_than_mo]

29. My 80 year old mother

had never missed a payment on any debt she ever had in her life. She has a FICO score of 845. She owed about $1500 on a Chase card and was paying 4 times the minimum monthly payment. In January she sent in her regular payment by mail a week before the due date as usual. When she received the February statement it failed to show credit for the payment and a $39 late fee. She called and was told by the agent at customer service to give her bank routing and account numbers so they could directly debt her bank account and also to go to the bank and issue a stop payment. She told them that she would issue a stop payment as they suggested but she would not let them directly debit her account. The agent agreed to allow her to send in another check and said that due to her great credit history they would forgive the late charge. In March she got her statement showing they not only didn't credit the late charge but they cashed the "missing" check (before the stop payment was issued)and the replacement check plus to add insult to injury they raised her interest rate from 3.99 percent to 29.99 percent.

My mom never gets visibly angry and has never so much as raised her voice at someone until now. She called Chase again and raised the roof, as she put it. She demanded to speak to a supervisor who lied and said that it was impossible that one of their agents had told her to issue a stop payment, but because she had such good standing "in the past", they would make an exception and remove the late charge (for real this time) and restore her account to the original low interest rate.

She listens to Clark Howard on the radio and now TV and told me that she would shred the card, pay off the card out of savings, but keep the account open as he advised. These scum at Chase need to be reigned in and taught a lesson.

[Cha]

31. I'm sorry about

your husband.

[timtom]

32. We dumped them a couple of months ago.

They're sleazy spooks-in-the-night predators.

I was set up to pay them the same time each month, but they have a floating due date, so we were late by one day and they wouldn't relent.

Paid their asses off without so much as a fare-thee-well or kiss-my-ass.

Worst customer service since ATT.

[prole_for_peace]

34. After reading a recent NYT article about these companies

trying to get relatives on the hook for a deceased person's bills I told everyone I know that they had better not even think about paying my off my bills when I pass (hopefully far far in the future). If they do I will surely haunt them.

[Igel]

36. Late, but I'll jump in.

It's standard fare for creditors to come after next of kin. Often they have no claim, no reason to expect the money to be repaid. "My X would have wanted it repaid" may be true, but it's also true that your "X would want you to be happy and financially in the clear". Sometimes doing what you think they'd want you to do is not at all what they would tell you to do in person--even if they're strongly in favor of paying off debts.

Debts are often like marriages: Till death do you part. It's best to remember that, even if paying the debt helps to remind you of the person and to instill a sense of loyalty and caring about the person. It's the same with funeral homes--they did it to my MIL. As my father says, "When I die, find the cheapest box you can find and bury me. I'll be dead, it's not like I'll care. You'll need the money for other things, and I'd rather you take a vacation than spend money that you'll bury."

Crass, but he has a point. He's also removed the decision from his next of kin by making all the arrangments himself.

===================

My FIL recently died and my MIL has a huge credit card debt. She's in a community property state, but it wouldn't really matter, I don't think.

The debt that her husband incurred would be payable from his estate. In her state she's the first in line for his entire estate (since he died without leaving a will). What can be willed is the estate - all debts. Usually there's a waiting period, during which time all debtors are required to contact the executor/representative (whatever MA's term of art is for the person in charge of dealing with the paperwork and accounting).

She could agree to pay off the debt, or watch as possessions and property that were his get assigned to the credit card company by the county clerk. It would wipe out the liquid portion of his estate; or it would mean she'd have to sell off her house and move. She's paying it, at least until the investments recover. Sucky choices.

======================

HOWEVER, that wasn't the end of it. As I said, it was a huge credit card debt. The interest would probably take her pension and SS checks. She contacted the credit card company and said that they could get paid, or she'd go about challenging various things. Moreover, since she was also executor, there'd be problems in paying it off. The response was quick--after a couple of hours on the phone, going over details. They forgave back penalties, they lowered the interest rate.

Now, your name may not be on the credit card. But if you're executor, or if the executor contacts them, that doesn't matter. There's no reason to be esp. nice to them on the phone if being nice hasn't gotten you want you want--they're doing their job, the executor should do his/her job. If that's you, defend the estate. Only after everything's said and done, after you've tried to mitigate the interest rate/penalties, etc., do you accept *personal* responsibility. Talk to a lawyer, if you can afford one.

[backscatter712]

37. Stiff 'em.

I'm not entirely up on your situation, but chances are good that your husband's debt died with him, and you're under no obligation to repay.

Lawyer up, find out what the law is, and what your status is, and you might be able to give those usurious bastards the finger.

[dysfunctional press]

40. DON'T SIGN THAT LETTER!!! DON'T SIGN THAT LETTER!!!

don't sign the letter.

[ChiciB1]

47. It Took Me Over FOUR Years To Get My Money Back On A Fraudulent Bank Of America

account. After reams of paper sent to them, my hiring a lawyer and years of phone calls, I FINALLY had enough and used the BAIL-OUT mess as leverage! Also called Senator Nelson's office and got a nice surprise when they agreed to help out with a person to represent me.

They owed me almost $8,000.00! I should have gotten punitive damages and maybe added interest to what THEY owed me, but took the money and put it in another account before they changed their mind!

I really can't stand what is going on in this country anymore! I'm glad I'm a Boomer and my husband retired from the phone company!! Thank God for the Union!!!