Dental Threads on DU - A Special Comment:

[PCIntern]

One of the most eagerly anticipated threads here on DU is one which begins, "I went to the dentist today and..." or words to that effect. These threads garner dozens of replies quickly and they are quite interesting to read, people sure have their share of dental problems. Most folks are quite accurate in their portrayals of their experiences and I can see, having practiced for over thirty years, each person enduring some hardship wherein the dentist was either helpful or hurtful. I do not doubt a single story and I could tell you some which would make your hair stand on end.

But if you are non-dentist or to a lesser extent a non-hygienist, please do not attempt to fathom the intricacies of procedures and the armamentaria utilized for the execution of these procedures. The complexity, the centuries of research, the clinical judgment, the medical and epidemiological evidence is so vast, that it overwhelms even trained professionals. Of course, that is not to say that you can't prefer something or a type of restoration or have opinions about dentists, their staffs, and their offices, but you MUST understand that in preparation for the granting of a dental degree, there are literally thousands of detailed hours of courses which interrelate on many levels: the curricula of dental schools is extraordinarily complex and the literature is so enormous that no one individual could ever master one tenth of it in his or her lifetime.

We have spent billions of man-hours helping to eliminate tooth decay and periodontal disease, to screen for cancer and other diseases including but not limited to auto-immune diseases which are quite prevalent. Books of oral pathology are nearly a thousand pages long, we have atlases of restorative dentistry detailing the preparations of teeth for inlays, for crowns, for bridges, and for removable partial and and full dentures. It is, in a word, staggering.

So, please don't tar us with a broad brush - it's hurtful and worse, ignorant. Fluoride improves the quality of life and extends it via morbidity and mortality tables; silver-mercury restorations last for decades with little maintenance in many cases and allow people to keep their teeth nearly forever quite inexpensively. The list goes on and on. We're only trying to help mankind. Really.

[Runcible Spoon]

1. Sure, I'll keep that in mind the next time a dentist tells me that the pain is all in my "head"

That's right, genius, it IS. Now give me another fucking shot of novocaine and don't talk down to me like I'm some on some psychosomatic mindfreak.

And for the record, that's THREE worthless dentists who have said that to me, until I actually ran across one who said that my root structure required at least three injection sites. And no, he didn't try to charge me extra.

I'm sure there are plenty of great dentists who have vast knowledge in pathology and are masters of crafting restorations. But the next fucking time I try to pay CASH to get the same billing rate as someone with insurance and get a big fat "NO you must pay the uninsured rate", I'm going to lose my mind.

Let's be honest-the vast majority of what dentists do is pretty straightforward and routine. And the moment something complicated comes up most ship you off with a referral to a specialist.

I'm sick of judgmental dentists who:

Make me feel like a lowlife for not having insurance even when they're making MORE money off of me

Make me feel like a crazy person because I tell them I'm in pain

[PCIntern]

2. Yeah...what did I say at the outset of the post?

That I've heard all these stories and I believe them. Feel better now?

So you had some lousy dentists, but you found a good one and those of us who are good are very very good. That's what I'm getting to. But your anger is obvious and I understand it...I've had many new patients who feel that they've been wronged and in many if not most cases, they have.

So it's also true for auto mechanics...want to outlaw oil or transmission fluid? Because that's what getting rid of fluoride is comparable to.

[Runcible Spoon]

7. So your whole OP is just a passionate plea to stump for fluoride?

umm...ok.

Yeah, one good dentist out of 5. Not very good batting average there. But hey, that is the plight of the underinsured, which in my mind is a much bigger issue than fluoride and good will ambassadorship for dentists. :eyes:

[PCIntern]

14. So write letters, go campaign...

people feel the same way about their computer repair and auto mechanics. Get to work...write the ADA, or your local dental society...call your State Board and complain, call you dental schools. you're passionate, so DO something...

[Runcible Spoon]

26. I did write to the ADA and degree-granting school of the worst butcher.

The moment he told me "you're a nice kid, but you're making me really nervous" I figured he had 0 business in this field.

You're not doing a whole heck of a lot to improve good will around here, either.

PCIntern...messages brought to you by the Concerned Dentists for Fluoride Council. :crazy:

[liberalhistorian]

37. Well, you're in the trenches, why don't YOU try to do

something about it if you care as much as you claim? Many people, even middle-class Americans, don't have dental insurance and even when we do it hardly pays for dipsquat. And good luck finding any dentists who take Medicaid, they don't exist anymore. Yet they'll be the first to complain when people, especially children, have too many cavities or bad teeth, never mind that they don't have the money to pay for treatment because most dentists demand it upfront or no treatment, period. Remember that kid in Chicago who died of a heart infection that started from a tooth absess, but his parents couldn't find a dentist who'd treat it without a ton of money upfront that they didn't have? That happens a helluva lot more than you'd think, yet I don't see too many dentists trying to do anything about it, just like I don't see too many doctors trying to do anything about it from their end.

[RB TexLa]

4. The OP went over your head. I'll simplify it for you. Dentists are smart we are stupid.

[PCIntern]

6. typical response lately here on DU...

No...what I said was, you possibly cannot imagine the research, the effort, the tens of thousands of hours which are invested in every nuance of each procedure. I could easily talk for an hour on matrix bands, holders, and wedging prior to placement of restorations. So when DUers decide that they understand what's what b/c they had a dentist put his knee on their chest, or state that fluoride is no fucking good, then maybe they're not fully educated in dentistry and the rationale for certain treatments.

If you don't get it, then maybe you are stupid.

[RB TexLa]

11. I understand. I could never imagine it. I would never dream of saying I could ever imagine it.

Ten generations of my family would never ever be able to imagine it.

[Runcible Spoon]

18. Yes, you certainly martyr in poverty for your years of special training, don't you?

Oh, wait...

[Runcible Spoon]

20. dupe

delete

[Runcible Spoon]

9. I can't believe I just paid $1200 to feel that way 2 weeks ago, too.

Man, I really AM stupid. >:(

[PCIntern]

33. Hey...ya know what's the worst part of being a dentist?

Having to treat people like you. No wonder you had the crap beaten out of you...you were right, your professionals got mad and hurt you deliberately - bad for them. We're not supposed to do that.

We can use 25 gauge or 30 gauge needles...either delivers the anesthesia. It's a question of how much it hurts. Get the idea...just one example.

[Runcible Spoon]

42. So you're ACTUALLY ADMITTING dentists hurt people they don't like intentionally?!

And what exactly do you mean by "people like me"? Oh you mean the people who actually speak up when they are NEEDLESSLY IN PAIN. Oh, and the people who question your professional omnipotence on a messageboard.

I am not going to bow down to your degrees; I have advanced degrees myself although I didn't have the foresight (greed) to go into a field where I could finance my golf clubs from some uninsured grad student.

I can't believe you actually admit dentists deliberately harm people who don't sit there like meek little rabbits.

AND YOU ACTUALLY WRITE AN OP ASKING FOR UNDERSTANDING.

Pathetic.

[TahitiNut]

31. Gee... and then you had to go ahead and post to prove it?

:wow:

[liberalhistorian]

39. Well, could YOU be a dentist? Obviously, you have no idea of

the kind of education and training they must undergo, including continuing education.

[RB TexLa]

40. We can't even imagine it.

:rofl:

[liberalhistorian]

38. You really think it's all "straightforward and routine?"

Really? OK, genius, you think it's so easy and that you know so much more than dentists who've actually spent years in education and training, why don't YOU open up your own dental office or do your own dental work? Let's see how well you'd do with such "straightforward and routine" work.

[Runcible Spoon]

43. I said most, and it's true.

I myself have advanced degrees. I find it pathetic that someone is posting on DU lecturing the Little People to STFU and leave the poor widdle dentists alone because they are so fucking talented and educated and misunderstood. Oh, and GO FLUORINE YAY :eyes:

[liberalhistorian]

44. Then I repeat my challenge to open your own dental office or

do your own dental work if you think it's so damned easy to do and you don't need any special education or training. You may have advanced degrees, but are any of them in dentistry? I didn't think so.

[MADem]

3. What? Do you mean to say the technical term for that metal thing with the hooks on either end is

not "oral torture device?" :rofl:

I read somewhere that dentists have a very high rate of suicide. It's probably because they get tired of people griping about them and making "Marathon Man" jokes.

But, if you're going to be honest, there aren't that many "painless" dentists....and the more people fear the dentist, the more they stay away, and the more it hurts when they do show up.

The patients ARE going to complain...until we get to a point where dental treatment doesn't involve pickin' and drillin', you're just going to have to suck up those hurtful comments and let them roll off your back. Lecturing people won't make 'em stop. They may stop AROUND YOU...but then, you'll wonder why all your pals get quiet when you show up, and start talking again when you move away....!

And no matter who has a PRIMO dental horror story, you're always going to find someone with a "one upper." It's the nature of the beast. If you see someone making a mistake, correct it. That's all you can do, really.

People won't always like your line of work. I know I'm not a "murdering baby killer" despite my years in uniform, and someone calling me that on an anonymous message board isn't going to bother me. You gotta just consider the nature of the interactions here, and in some cases, consider the source.

[Texasgal]

5. Who's broadbrushing dentists?

From the looks of many stories here in DU it appears that people are talking about real life issues they have had at the dentist.

How's that a broad brush?

[PCIntern]

8. Who?

I'll tell you who: those people who 'decide' for the rest of us that fluoride shouldn't be in the water supply, that silver restorations are causing MS, and other 'bad science' conclusions

[Texasgal]

27. sorry... I am lost

can ya provide a link or something?

[pacalo]

10. I'll bet you're a wonderful dentist. You're certainly thoughtful & very intelligent.

I've had two dentists -- chose to leave one due to insurance coverage -- & they both are outstanding.

The only complaint I've had was with a substitute dentist for my regular dentist who was on vacation. The atmosphere was noticeably less professional than it always was when the regular dentist was there. The "sub" dentist was focused on charming the young dental assistants who were laughing & giggling at his playfulness. I got the impression the sub was playing the "aren't-I-fun-to-be-around" or "don't-you-wish-you-worked-with-me" games with them, trying to one-up the regular dentist. I was very put off by his obvious insecurity, perhaps mostly because he damaged a nerve in my gums. After that visit, my mouth (the "maxilla" area) swelled up like you wouldn't believe.

Thank goodness for dentists like you & my regular dentist.

[PCIntern]

21. you're welcome and thank you...

it's tough out there...

[pacalo]

28. I've enjoyed your posts in the past, too.

So sorry you were attacked on this thread. You didn't deserve that.

[NNN0LHI]

12. Only floss the teeth you want to keep

And when a dentist tells you to get to an Endodontist because you have gum disease do what the dentist says. Or you will regret it.

Don

[xchrom]

13. when i was little i had a horrifying dentist. horrifying.

complaints about pain were met with derision and 'sissy' comments.

at that ime -- years ago -- my parents were of the mind set, as many many others were -- that the dr was always right.

[PCIntern]

16. So did I...

that's why I became a dentist.

[JerseygirlCT]

23. Me too.

They had to sedate me for a dentist visit - I was that terrified.

The orthodontist was worse. He was the one who gave me a patronizing speech about puberty and basically patted me on the head when I complained of pain. I needed a root canal - that's what was hurting so badly. Doofus! (And he did a cruddy job - I probably could use more work - my bite has never been right).

Fortunately, in the time since, I've had some wonderful dentists. Really wonderful, caring people, and really good at what they do. The joy of heading there without fear and knowing I'll be well cared for is a wonderful thing!

[JerseygirlCT]

15. I know it. And I thank you! nt

[Blue-Jay]

17. When the dentist puts me under, I wake up with my pants unzipped.

Can't wait for my next appointment...

[MineralMan]

19. There's no question that dentistry is a complex

discipline, which has absolutely nothing to do with people's experiences with individual dentists.

For all I know, you are an outstanding practitioner. Perhaps I'll make my next appointment with you, but then, I have no idea who you are.

I have my own horror stories involving dentists, which I'll not share here. I am trying to remember a good experience or outcome involving a dentist. Perhaps I'm just unlucky in my choice of dentists...who knows.

Nobody's attacking you. They're relating their experiences with others.

[sufrommich]

22. I believe the technical term for Dental Threads is

Dental Floss.

[Liberal_in_LA]

24. I estimate that this thread will eventually have 200 posts

Dentistry + challenge to DU conventional wisdom = lots and lots of posts. :-)

[FreeState]

25. Thank you - I have a great fear of dentist

I have Panic Disorder and the last big attack I had was when a dentist put a needle into the center of a tooth while I was having a root canal - I slapped the dentist in the face and left after she told me to I should have just told her I could feel it (never mind the hands in my mouth or the equipment!). Novocain does not work on me very well and each and every dentist is a frightening experience for me - none of them believe me when I tell them I need a lot of it before it will work. I now need to go to a dentist again and I have to literally work on working up the nerve to just call one and get it over with.

I'll try and use your post as a reminder that there are decent dentist out there that get it.

[corpseratemedia]

29. i always think im a nightmare for dentists

as i get extremely uncomfortable having all that stuff in my mouth

those moveable plasma tvs finally helped..ahh the glowy glow of tv..

TCM works for me

[Sebastian Doyle]

30. Flouride in toothpaste or in dental treatments is a totally seperate issue from flouride in water.

When you brush your teeth, you spit it out. When a dentist cleans your teeth, or puts those little plastic molds on for a few minutes, they stick the little vacuum hose in your mouth to suck up the fluoride & saliva so you don't swallow it.

But you're going to swallow water. That's the whole point. And it's not a slam against dentistry to say that I don't want to swallow the toxic fluoride crap, as every dentist I've ever gone to did his or her best to make sure I didn't swallow any. And I appreciate their efforts in doing so (not to mention fixing my teeth)

[brucefan]

32. I go to a dentist in Philly

who has Fox News on in the waiting room.
I wish I could walk into your office someday.

[PCIntern]

36. all my specialists to whom I refer are Dems...

is your DMD in Center City?

[Lyric]

34. I have a fantastic dentist, when I can afford to see him.

At the moment, I'm so ashamed of the terrible state of my teeth that even if I HAD the money, I'd probably be too embarrassed to go in. My dentist is awesome, though. I've had two extractions (one wisdom, one not) five fillings, and a complicated root canal, and every time he injects the Lidocaine, he NEVER hurts. He does this thing where he caresses my cheek in a soothing way and squirts the solution slightly ahead of where the needle is going, so I never feel a thing except for a tiny bit of pressure. He tells interesting stories to keep my mind occupied while he's doing something scary (like the root canal was) and he lets me take a break if my jaw starts to ache from being held open wide for too long. I am a complete dental-phobe, but I have never had to have any kind of sedative while being cared for by him.

My one tiny complaint is that he, like so many other doctors and dentists, is a little paranoid about pain medication prescriptions. The two extractions I had were due to abscessed infected teeth that were absolutely excruciating, but he wouldn't give me any painkillers at all until *after* he'd done the extraction. That didn't make much sense to me, as the worst of the pain comes *before* the tooth is removed. I asked his assistant and she privately explained that he's had a lot of low-income patients come in complaining of pain from an abscess, but after getting antibiotics and painkillers, they don't show back up for the extraction, so he withholds pain medicine until afterward to make sure that they're getting those bad teeth pulled out. It's not that he thinks that they're faking the pain for pills--you can't really fake an infection, after all--but more that these people see dentists so infrequently that they're terrified of them, and when the pain subsides with antibiotics and pain meds, they rationalize not going back to finish the job.

I get that, but it seems incredibly unfair to discriminate like that based on income levels. Still, he's very, very good, and he's one of the only dentists in town who take Medicaid, so I give my (infrequent) business to him without too much grumbling.

Edit: Oh, and I agree with you about fluoride. My son does a one-minute fluoride rinse every night before bed after brushing, and a stronger fluoride rinse once a week in school.

[pengillian101]

35. One of the most eagerly anticipated threads here on DU is one which begins, "I went to the dentist t

Well it's true. Lots of folks hate pain from a dentist.

Give us laughing gas or don't touch us. I'm in that place right now. I desperately need a dentist. But it's difficult getting to a dental office. I don't drive anymore and use a walker to navigate. A stair or two into a doorway doesn't work.

And I sure never heard of dental home visits. If anyone knows of one in northern MN, let me know.

I'm at the point that if I ever do make it to a dentist's office, I'd say pull 'em and give me dentures.

[Loki]

41. My husband is a 30 year practitioner - OMS

and I've worked in the office for the last 6 years. I wish for just one moment, the patient could see us from where we stand. Many, many of us go to work every day and try to do the best job we have the skills and talent to do. For many of us it took years of schooling and financial investment to come to the place we are today. Some say, oh your financial rewards are great, and yes some are, but with that comes the realization and the responsibility of having someone's health and well-being in your hands. Our patients are sicker and older, their treatments often more complicated, our costs have skyrocketed, and insurance companies have made our ability to practice our profession almost impossible. When it comes to basics, we have always practiced the philosophy of first do no harm, and treat everyone as you would want to be treated in any medical/dental office. It starts from their first interaction with the ladies who answer the phone and flows through every interaction they have with us and the dentist. I read all the horror stories here and I've heard all of them before, but tomorrow will come and our first patient will walk through the door and we will take care of them, just as we always have, God willin' and the creek don't rise. Hats off to you PC, thank you for your dedication to your practice and your patients.
:toast:

[Lisa0825]

45. Sorry you feel piled-on.

I have never had a bad dentist visit, aside from the pain, and aside from being sedated, that's just a given. But anyway, I never went to a dentist that I didn't think was doing the best they could.

I agree with you about fluoride too. The argument against it is total woo. If you need to vent about it, the skeptics/pseudoscience group is a good place! :pals:

[blaze]

46. My dentist is the best!!!!

I have crap for teeth. I have always had really bad teeth. Twelve cavities at my first appointment as a kid. I have two siblings who never had the same problems, even though we had the same brushing routines growing up...

But, as an adult in a new city, my Dentist has been a dream. Nobody does novocaine like he does. His chair side manner is brilliant. The shots are carefully administered and my "that still hurts" comments are always taken seriously.

As a regular, reluctant, visitor to my dentist, my hat is off to you.