I have a question about New York City (suggested gratituty)

[Hawkeye-X]

Why is it that we are forced to literally buy someone else a dinner for a 18% gratituty? Tonite we went to dinner with my BIL and SIL and even though we did request seperate checks and yet the manager screwed it up and totalled it together. It came out 133 dollars (BIL ordered too much) and we did the calculations and we discovered that our share was less than 55 and BIL was 55, totalling at about 114, and with the 18% gratuity it came to 133. Now where I live, it is usually 10 to 15 percent, but the service tonight was atrocious - we all finished our dinner except my SIL, and waited over 30 min since finishing dinner for her to get served. It is a small restaurant. We are seeing that 18% gratuity all over nyc. What is the deal with that? Is it mandatory? It did say suggested, but we all paid 60 per family. 120 is wayyyy plenty after the lousy service too. Am I in the wrong?

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

1. Where I live,

we tip 20% if the service is good, and the standard 15% if it is so-so, and none at all if service is bad. But that's in the Ozarks, not NYC.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

2. 10% is fucking cheap and you should just stay home

15% is acceptable for average service.

I start at 20% and it goes up or down. This is pretty common in NJ, which has the same tipping practices as NYC.

Waitstaff's taxes are figured by them earning 15% tips. If you tip less, you're screwing them on taxes.

[TheWraith]

5. Hey--Calm down.

I can sympathize with wanting to make sure a minimum wage earner gets their money, but if the service is really that apalling it's hard to expect anything else out of people.

Mind you, this is coming from a guy who tips on a sliding scale from 0% to 70%, with the average around 40%.

[Maine-ah]

70. Minium wage?

I get paid 3.50 an hour.

edited to add:

obviously I don't live in NY....do the servers there get paid a real wage plus tips?

[TheWraith]

71. According to the rules here...

If tips don't bring the wages up to an acceptable level, the employer has to make up the difference.

[Maine-ah]

73. yes,

but that doesn't go by a shift to shift basis. If by the end of the week, for the hours you worked, if you didn't make at least minimum wage, employers are supposed to make it up.

I don't know a server that hasn't made at least minimum wage for a whole week. Though we have all had shifts that we didn't make minimum wage.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

76. Yeah, minimum wage

That's real easy to live off of.

[TheWraith]

93. The minimum wage has nothing to do with the conversation.

You blew up at somebody over the fact that they didn't reward bad service.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

75. No, they don't

[JerseygirlCT]

12. I've seen restaurants automatically add the 18% with big tables.

But if you're talking a party of only a few, that seems odd.

I do the same as you - almost always 20%, but with really bad service, it might go down. (And it's often rounded up from the 20%)

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. Yeah, an automatic 18% for 6 or more is pretty typical

[ShareTheWoods]

15. To hell with that noise

Fix the ignorant laws then and/or eliminate the tipping scam. If some shitbag laws are taxing
income based on ASSUMED tips then that law and the person(s) who came up with it should be run out of town.

Tips should be based on good service. If your service sucks then zero should be the assumed tip.
Is there actually a tax somewhere that makes an assumption on tip income?

Force the damn employers to pay a decent wage rather than depending on moronic tax laws and generosity.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

17. Yep, according to federal law, they get taxed based on a 15% tip assumption

I have a lot of friends who are in the restaurant/bar business.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

81. unless it has changed recently TEFRA mandated 8%

not 15...but i have been out of the loop for a while...

sP

To add :

<snip>
Abstract- The IRS is scrutinizing tip income more closely since it estimates that 84% of all tip income totalling approximately $500 million goes unreported annually. TEFRA 82 covers the reporting of tips by the employees of restaurants and bars. Sections 3121(a) and 3401(a) consider tips to be wages and taxable. Tips are gratuities made by a customer to a waiter or waitress and should not be confused with service charges. Employees must maintain records to establish the amount of tip income earned annually, and all employees receiving a minimum of $20 per calendar month must provide a written statement reporting such tips to the employer. Employers generally are required to report 8% of all food and beverage receipts as tip income. The standard minimum tip rate of 8% is in practice adjusted by the IRS in accordance with local demographics and statistics.


Tip income has been scrutinized more than ever during the past five years. The IRS estimates that 84% of tip income, approximately $500 million each year, is never reported. TEFRA 82 was designed to provide for reporting of tips by employees of food and beverage establishments.

Tips are included under the definition of wages and considered taxable under Secs. 3121(a) and 3401(a). The IRS states that lost tax revenue from tip income ranks second to the revenue lost on illegal activities.
</snip>

[Gormy Cuss]

99. 8% is still the default for employer reporting

but there are alternative agreements for (mostly large) restaurants to declare 15% as the minimum to cut down on the reporting paperwork. I forget all the details but in essence the employees need to agree to it as well and are still expected to file reports on tips in excess of that.

edit:report on tips not taxes. Duh.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

100. we rounded to 10% to solve problems...

as a server i had to declare my own tips and between 8 and 10 was common...but certainly not 15...

sP

[DainBramaged]

20. Hear hear

My daughter tends bar now, and thankfully doesn't have to share tips. With the downturn in the economy, those in the restaurant business are hard pressed to make ends meet. Anyone who screws a waiter or waitress should be eating at Mickey D's.

[Goblinmonger]

27. I agree with you on the screwing them part

but what if the service really does suck. I mean really, really bad. Should I feel guilted into tipping someone who doesn't do anything to earn the tip just because of tax laws?

[Dorian Gray]

62. No

It is rare that I find service so bad that I leave a 10% or less tip. (It's probably happened twice to me.) But if it is that bad, I have no problem with leaving little. But if food is messed up because of the kitchen and the waitstaff is properly apologetic and makes up for it by offering you free dessert or something... they still get a 20% tip from me. It's only if the waitstaff is disproportionately rude that I would leave them next to nothing.

[emilyg]

39. What if they screw a customer with bad service?

[Stephanie]

50. Speak to the manager.

Passive aggressive messages with cheapskate tips don't serve any purpose.

[alcibiades_mystery]

24. I agree, less than 15% you're a cheap douche or punishing people

You can't tip $16 on a $114 tap. That's weak.

[karynnj]

88. As a fellow New Jerseyan, I agree

[Southpaw07]

3. We start at 20% as well...

First because the math is easlier (I'm not that bright) and second because my wife waited tables for many years and is a little biased in the wait staff's favor. The real question here is where did you eat in NYC for $60/couple?!?!?! Its hard to get away from street vendors for less than that!

[bigwillq]

11. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Southpaw07]

22. Thanks!

I have been here a long time. Just don't chime in much. More like an education.

[JerseygirlCT]

18. That's what I was wondering, too!

Dinner for 4 in NYC for that is a bargain!

[Stephanie]

42. In NYC it's 18% because that's double the tax, so it's easy math.

That's the standard in New York and nobody wants to take the tourist table exactly because of people like this OP.

[alarimer]

65. Why do they expect tips for lousy service?

Fuck that noise. I would just remove that part from the bill and pay the actual price and tell the server (and manager) exactly why.

If they can't even do their fucking job right, they do not deserve a tip. It certainly should not be assumed they should get a tip.

[ddeclue]

4. I didn't know you were supposed to tip the hotdog street vendors..

NYC, 3 people on 130 bucks at a real restaurant?

Really?

18% is a very AVERAGE tip. If you want to tip 10% do everybody a favor and STAY HOME.

:argh:

[Hawkeye-X]

7. it is actually 4 people

And at 18%, I don't mind paying that much if the service rendered is excellent but our check included 18% gratituty

[Runcible Spoon]

10. So? Did you read the menu?

It's pretty common to put in an automatic gratuity for parties of 6 or more. There's always a statement on the menu. I can't imagine the restaurant would automatically include a tip for smaller parties without a notice, too.

[ShareTheWoods]

19. check included 18% gratituty

Outrageous! Any tightwad business doing that should be boycotted until they pay their staff a decent
wage. I'll tip 18, 20, 30% if the service is good, but I'll be damned if I'll visit any crook scamming
the public or its employees.

[DainBramaged]

21. I guess you don't eat out much. Roadkill the norm?

[ShareTheWoods]

31. Can't afford to eat out.

Roadkill has looked good at times too.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

35. Thank God

For the sake of the wait/bar staff.

[Southpaw07]

25. I don't think it's 18% for the tightwad,

I think its 18% added for the wait staff so they don't get screwed. As pointed out earlier, if someone walks out without tipping, they are still paying taxes on 15% of the bill. At least in NY they are.

[ShareTheWoods]

30. The staff is getting screwed by the tax and the employer

I'd like to know what party added that mandatory tax to the law. When I was a cook the wait folks only
paid tax on actual tips.

Pay the staff a decent wage and let them keep their tips tax free. Service will be better that way.

[bigwillq]

36. Hello.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

[Stephanie]

51. It happened under Reagan, IIRC

There was a debate on the Hill about taxing business lunches, and they decided to tax the waiters instead. At least that's how I recall it.

[alcibiades_mystery]

28. It has nothing to do witrh service

This isn't the goddamn 1930's. We tip so that people will work as waiters, period. The notion that tipping is for service is antiquated and stupid.

[Goblinmonger]

29. Then why don't they just increase the price of the food

and pay the servers a decent wage? And then why don't we all just tip 15% and not vary it according to the level of the service?

[WI_DEM]

79. Sorry I don't tip simply so someone can work as a waiter, I do a scaling tip based on the

"antiquated" notion that tipping somebody for good service is expected and right. Bad service then they do need to find another occupation.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

83. then it is not a tip and should be part of their base compensation... n/t

[Stephanie]

43. Your check did not include 18% gratuity. Your check showed you the math for 18%.

The actual tip amount was up to you and your conscience, which apparently does not trouble you.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

85. the check absolutely COULD have included the amount

of the tip in the total...happens all the damned time...not just the math to get you there (though some places do that).

sP

[Stephanie]

89. Read his thread title - "suggested gratuity"

Not mandatory.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

90. post #66 seems to be in opposition to your view of the happenings

...and i said it COULD happen. it sounded like you were stating that it couldn't happen...sorry if i misread...work...tired...eyes...brain...help...

sP

[stillcool]

6. It's been a long time..

but in the 80's at a private club, we added 17% automatically onto every tab. Then the members could tip extra if they desired. And that was Florida.

[Runcible Spoon]

8. 10%? Pathetic.

When I was waiting tables I was lucky to clear 12% of my check totals. Shitty tippers should just stay home.

[CreekDog]

9. standard tipping is not 10-15% (what people do where you live notwithstanding)

i can see not tipping that amount when the service is bad (and in that case, talk to the manager and tell them --frequently, they will remove the mandatory gratuity).

but for acceptable service, 15-20% is the standard and for big groups, 20% is not unreasonable since it is very challenging to serve a large group.

[alcibiades_mystery]

26. Standard tipping is 15-20% as you say

People need to give up on the pretense that you're tipping for the specific service. You're tiupping so that there will be WAITERS, period. People have to fucking live. Tip 15-20% or stay the fuck home.

[CreekDog]

32. i do tip 15%-20%

generally 20% and frequently a little more.

but i might withhold under a rare, atrocious circumstance.

[Midlodemocrat]

13. I always tip at least 20%. Anything less, well, it's just not right.

[BlooInBloo]

14. People bitching about tipping shouldn't go out.

[customerserviceguy]

23. Agreed, but mandatory tipping

means that service can get shitty.

I've only seen it once since I moved to NY, and that was for Hudson Valley Restaurant Week, last week. My lady and I went to a pretty hoity-toidy place, and because we were getting specially priced meals ($28.09 for a really great three-course meal) this particular restaurant added 18%to the bill, and five bucks for the valet parking. I guess they wanted to keep cheapos from coming for the inexpensive meals, and just getting by with water to drink, and minimum costs.

But in that case, the service was beyond impeccable, and we were relieved to be able to put the valet parking on my credit card, as we had come in with relatively little cash.

I think we were just lucky, we got a mandatory tip added to our bill (the other two restaurants we went to for Restaurant Week we did our own tipping), but we got great service, and will be back there soon.

[Stephanie]

45. In this case it was not MANDATORY.

Restaurants in NY often calculate the "Suggested Gratuity" amount on the check for the benefit of math challenged tourists, but their is nothing mandatory about it.

[customerserviceguy]

66. On this promotion

it was definitely added in there. It was stated on the special Restaurant Week menu that it would be, so you had upfront notice about it.

[Historic NY]

33. Rule of thumb double the sales tax in Ny... remember the waiter is probably ..

giving a cut to others he works with. some places just tack it onto the price they charge.

Restaurant Speak

Prix Fixe: Multi-course meal at a set price -- also called a table d'hôte
A la Carte: Items are priced and ordered separately
Family Style: Dishes are passed and shared
Gratuity: The tip
Service Compris: Tip is included in the price of the meal -- also known as European-style
Captain's Tip: Portion of the tip designated for the head waiter -- on a 20-percent tip, rule of thumb is that the server gets 15 percent and the captain 5 percent

[WorseBeforeBetter]

34. 20% or more excellent service; 15% average service; 10% "bad" service...

and 0% if horrendous service (I've only had to do that a couple of times). Actually it's more 'tude than bad service that I'd leave a big, fat nothing ... many things are out of a wait-persons control.

I usually see gratuity added for parties of six or more -- four seems odd.

When dining with them again, I'd pull the waiter aside to make sure s/he is preparing separate checks. If I'm the one ordering extra (expensive entree/drinks, dessert, etc.) I always throw in extra (factoring in tax and tip), but not everyone does that, unfortunately.

[Coyote_Bandit]

37. Double the tax and round up to the nearest whole dollar

which is roughly 20%. I will happily go up on that - sometimes quite significantly - if the waitstaff are pleasant and the service is good. I will leave less for a bad attitude or poor service.

I have been known to leave a two cent tip - an indication that I knew a tip was expected but not deserved. This was the result of both poor service and a degrading and insulting comment made to a disabled senior in our party. I did the same thing when a Republican waiter kept intruding into a private political conversation at our table and denigrating our views. And once I paid a $50 tab in loose pocket change. Our table was completely neglected and ignored and we were unable to get a ticket - much less pay it and leave. We could have walked on the ticket. Instead, the person I was with left, drove several miles to her home, raided her kids piggy banks and returned with a gallon ziplock bag of loose change. We paid the tab in pennies, nickels and dimes left in a dried and dirty plate. I rather doubt anyone even bothered to count that mound of change. We figured that we went at least two hours at that table with no contact of any kind from any waitstaff or resturant personnel. Admittedly, those were extreme circumstances.

[Lyric]

38. We tip 20% as a minimum on the rare occasions we eat out

save for TWICE, in the ten years we've been together.

The first time, we were at a buffet-type restaurant (Golden Corral) and had baby LyricKid with us. Literally, BABY LyricKid--he was nine months old. We had him in the high chair, and got him some cottage cheese, applesauce, and soft-cooked carrots on a plate from the buffet.

While I was going to get some food, Rhythm overheard our teenage waitress griping on the phone behind the little station where they keep the extra plates and drink fountains that "some jerks had brought in another damned baby" for her to "clean up after." Rhythm decided to ignore it--she looked like she was about nineteen or so, and young people can be stupid sometimes on the phone with their friends. But the final straw was when she wandered back over to our table, rolled her eyes at the messy baby happily eating his applesauce with his hands, and said "Could you PLEASE keep him from getting that stuff all over the place? I'd like to get out of here before midnight." Now, first let me say--Golden Corral is DEFINITELY marketed as a family restaurant. This is not a place where anybody would be out of line bringing small children. Secondly, we ALWAYS cleaned up after LyricKid--we just usually waited until the end of the meal, because constantly wiping up every spatter from a nine-month-old would pretty much preclude us from having any time to eat our own meals. Thirdly, he hadn't even made much of a mess yet! We'd hardly been there for twenty minutes, including the time spent in line. HE was messy, but the floor around him wasn't very messy at the time.

Rhythm politely asked to speak to her supervisor, and got another eye-roll. After we told him that we didn't appreciate her attitude, he went to go talk to her about it--we couldn't hear what HE said, but we sure as hell heard what SHE said. It was something like, "Oh come ON. They're just trying to get their money back. People like that pull this crap all the time." I don't know what he said to her, but a few minutes later she came back over with a forced smile and apologized for "misunderstanding." What she supposedly misunderstood is beyond me. Anyway, we hardly saw her again, and toward the end, another waitress walking past (not ours) cooed at LyricKid and got us a wet cloth to wipe his seat down with--which we GLADLY did ourselves.

Our total bill had been about $25. We left her a dollar. We don't fault incompetence--the waitress could always be new--but we sure as hell weren't going to put up with being treated like crap and then defamed as scam artists when we rightfully complained about it.

The second time we didn't leave a tip was about seven years ago. We were at a little mom-and-pop place right on the outskirts of Harrisonburg, and our waitress was this chubby, motherly-type woman. We had no problem at all with her until the end of the meal, when I took LyricKid to the bathroom to clean him up and change him. Apparently, the waitress informed Rhythm that she'd overheard us calling each other "sweetheart," and that she really didn't think that sort of thing was appropriate in a "family restaurant," and we should show some "decorum" while out among "normal people." You'd have thought we were throwing down naked on the fucking table or something. Said waitress handed Rhythm the bill and a Chick Tract folded together and walked away.

When I came back, Rhythm was damned near in tears. Needless to say, we sure as fuck didn't leave a tip, and we NEVER went back.

[Stephanie]

40. "Suggested" "Suggested" "Suggested"

That information is provided for people who believe 10% is an adequate tip. Do you know that wait staff are making less than minimum wage? Do you know that they are taxed AS IF they are making an average 13% tip on their GROSS sales whether they actually collect that amount or not? Do you know that the waiter who serves you is sharing those tips with the busboys, the bartenders, and whoever else helps out with service? So you cheated the waiter out of $13 - that's exactly the reason the "SUGGESTED" service charge is added to the check. It's to remind tourists that they're not in Kansas anymore. A New Yorker would never leave less than 15%. That's just being cheap. If you don't want to tip, change the law that taxes waiters on their hypothetical tips.

[Hawkeye-X]

41. Normally I am NOT a tightwad..

But seeing that the 18% is "included" on my bill, which is not appropriate because they "expect" you to pay that much and some. They also MISCALCULATED the 18% tip as well. Like I said in my OP, we asked for SEPARATE check, and instead we got one check with that much in it. Needless to say, I had to do some calculations individually and gave them the appropriate 18% tip based on what I ordered and paid for. My BIL did the same.

This was in Brooklyn, NY. I ordered spider roll and mozarella fritta (which came to about $25 for the meal). My SO ordered same except with zucchini frittas. Came to $26, so the calculation is based on this formula:

$51.00 total (rounded up)
$4.95 tax (or whatever)
18% tip is this: 51 x .18 - As a general rule, I never tip on taxes. It came to $9.1

So we paid a total of about $64 on our end. My BIL paid $67. The manager is a big fat cheat.

I noticed nobody answered my question - the bill included the 18% gratuity, am I obligated to pay for it?

In my home state of Colorado, the tip is left blank and we are to fill it based on the service. Normally we give between 15 to 18% if good service, but if lousy service, it goes a bit lower but no less than 10%.

New York City apparently "helpfully" fills in the blank. That isn't right. And there was NO mention of the "mandatory" gratuity anywhere in their menu - just the usual 18% with 6 or more. We were a party of 4.

Hawkeye-X

[Hawkeye-X]

47. Oh and know what/ When we had the national DU meetup in Denver during the DNC convention.

They *TOLD* me that the 20% tipping is mandatory for groups of 20 or more and I agreed to that when I organized the meetup. We certainly had that many that day, and I gave them about 30% tip for my meal.

And it was well worth it.

Hawkeye-X

[Stephanie]

49. I don't get your math. "our share was less than 55 and BIL was 55, totalling at about 114"

From your OP, If the bill was $114 and BIL's share was $55 then your share was $59. How do you figure that yours was less than $55? Or did BIL misunderestimate what he owed?

If this post I'm replying to cites the correct amount, then:

Your share based on $51 plus tax at 8.375% = $4.27 so $55.27. 18% tip (calculated against the sale, not including the tax) = $9.20. Total = $64.47.

The bill was $114? Minus $55.27 = $58.73 owed by the BIL. The tax included in his bill was about $5.42. 18% on $53.31 (backing out the tax) is $9.60. So $58.73+$9.60 = $68.33.

Total for both couples including 18% tip would be $132.80.

But you all decided $60 per couple was convenient and should be sufficient. Your BIL is a cheapskate and the waiter smelled math-challenged tourists so he hopefully reminded you of the suggested, customary, standard NYC gratuity amount on the check, which you were free to ignore, and did.

[Dorian Gray]

63. NYC

doesn't fill in the blank for you. That restuarant may have, but it's not the norm.

Where'd you eat? I live in Brooklyn....

[Hawkeye-X]

96. Ate at Tea for Two.

[Hamlette]

44. wait staff make $2.13 per hour in wage

if the service was lousy, it might not have been the waiter's fault (kitchen screwed up order, not enough wait staff for number of tables).

I leave 20%.

If the service is terrible I leave 15%. But then, my sister was a waitress when she was in college and we see tips differently after that experience. (My FIL was a notoriously bad tipper. We'd carry cash when he took us out to dinner to leave the tip. We're religious about it.)

[Bill McBlueState]

46. Look how much controversy every tipping thread generates

You'd think there would be pressure for employers to just pay their employees fair wages, instead of forcing them to rely on a controversial practice.

[petronius]

48. That seems like such a no-brainer to me - I can't think of any rationale

for any industry to get away with sub-minimum wages. On the other hand, I sort of suspect that most waitstaff make a lot more under the current system than they would in a tip-free environment...

[1]

52. no shit, eh? "I AS A RESTAURANT REQUIRE YOU, AS A CUSTOMER, TO PAY MOST OF MY EMPLOYEE WAGES!"

via tips. and the best part is that since most all y'all have probably worked as a waiter/tresses at some point, y'all are cool with that...

madon... let's tip the dude who sells me a car 20% so he gets a decent wage. the guy at sear's for that washing machine.

you fucking hypocrites.




i can get how all y'all want to support keeping waiters/tresses as slave earners, while still getting into the shit of others on DU to sanctimoniously beat customers that have a dreadful experience into the ground. servers never fuckup with a customer, right? 20% is a right! a bad waitstaff experience should always pay out as does one that really tries, right?

bullshit. that is why a tip is a tip.

you want 20% earn 20%

don't automatically add that ever to my bill. i will not pay it...

[Stephanie]

53. My advice to you:

Never eat in the same restaurant twice.

[1]

56. dearest ? i can only suggest the same to you... we both have the same chance...

i love city people. so fucking arrogant and ignorant... about their meals... you think that everything is so proper and clean? my god! if you only knew?

crunch away, stephanie. those little bit of "seasoning" and "spice?" you enjoy?

that wonderful "sauce" you are experiencing?


my god you are so ignorant about what you re putting into your mouth.

but keep on putting that into your mouth. and chewing it. and swallowing it.



keep on being smug about that.

that is the funny part.

HA!

[Gormy Cuss]

101. No joke.

It's at least time to have a Federal standard that the minimum wage applies to waitstaff. In the states on the West Coast where that's the law there isn't exactly a dearth of restaurants.

[Missy Vixen]

54. We always overtip

Always.

If the service is bad, we call the next day and talk with the manager. We've been out for the evening with people who treated the waitstaff rudely and left an insufficient tip. We made up the difference, and we've never been out with them again.

My personal policy: DO NOT screw with someone else who has access to your food.

[Stephanie]

55. That is the perfect response.

Don't send weird messages with bizarre, insulting tips. If there is a problem with the service, speak to the manager.

[1]

57. but you send the tip AFTER you eat the meal. what is your point?

[Obamanaut]

82. We do also. And, we also try to establish a limited rapport with

the staff - greeter and server - as soon as we come in contact with them. If the place is busy, it isn't as easy, but it can be done to a degree. Treat them like people from the moment the first word is spoken.

We've not had bad service in a very long time. The places we go regularly know we never tip less than 20%, and they seem genuinely glad to see us again. Every time.

[NeedleCast]

84. Yup, doing the small things you've described goes a LONG way

Having worked in the industry for about five years when I was younger, I know from experience that people who treat the serving staff like people instead of "staff" almost always have a better dining experience.

[NuttyFluffers]

58. hate gratuity. we should grow up like other nations and abandon it. raise wages instead.

last thing i want to do on a night of fun is math with decimal places and percentages.

after europe, japan, korea, etc. i can honestly say we have it ALL WRONG. dump gratuity altogether, raise wages, round off purchases to the nearest whole or half dollar. anything else is inconvenient -- and after these travel experiences -- plain ol' stupid.

stay home you say? bite me. i'll go to another country which doesn't have its head up its ass and party. suck the brain drain, slackards. catch up or get out of the way of the rest of the world. america, quit being the belligerent slow child holding up the class, the world's evolving ahead of you.

[1]

59. i sit down at the bar. i order a shot. the bartender brings a shot. and i tip him $10...

we now understand each other... and for the rest of the night the bartender brings me the big shots.

that is the basic misunderstanding about the waiter/eater thing in a restaurant. perhaps we should tip up front.

i sit down at a table, you as a waiter come to take my order, i slip you a $50, you do your job as expected. and for the rest of the evening we are cool.



or, the usual model... i sit down for a meal... you excel/suck as a waiter... i over/under tip you for service... that just sucks as way to do business. where is the reward/punishment expressed but in some disconnected way? stupid.

i like the "tip in advance" model.

screw this "i always tip 20% to 1000%, i am more liberal than thou, horsecrap" that y'all are so proud of pretending that you do.

old school says "earn your tip".

you want 20% or more?

earn it. be exceptional. not just ordinary.

new school? he's a $50. be exceptional, or i will walk on the tab, you dick.


i think i like new school...

[Dorian Gray]

60. I live in NYC

and I rarely see gratuity added unless you are a party over 6 or 8 people. But I think that if service sucks, you are allowed to complain and not leave the entire gratuity on your check.

But I pretty much leave 20-25% always. Unless it's terrible.

[vaberella]

61. Bah...I'm still at the 10% and I haven't moved from that number in years.

At this point, restaurant eating is like giving everyone a free ride.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

68. 10%? Stay home

You're costing the servers money just to wait on you.

[Maine-ah]

72. thank you

:yourock: :applause:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

77. No problem

I'm friends with a decent amount of waiters and bartenders. I always leave a nice tip.

My family didn't have a lot of money growing up, but I was raised to not cheap out on tips. My dad had a 2nd job as a bartender, and tips made a difference.

[a la izquierda]

64. 20% unless service is horrendous

I waited tables for years until I discovered I do not have the patience for that. I hated having to add an automatic gratuity, and almost never did--and never got screwed for it. But it's the former server in me that realizes it's a tough job when you're slammed, the kitchen screws up, etc. As long as a server is nice to me and leaves me alone to eat and talk, and takes my order as I want it, they'll get 20%.

But, I usually eat at places where I know the waitstaff, so I've haven't had any issues recently. One time, though, I stopped at an IHOP for a post-bar snack. The place was dead. THe server could not have been more unpleasant to us, talking to his friend at a table behind us the entire time while we waited for 40 minutes for pancakes. They were cold. He got a crappy tip.

[leftynyc]

67. I am under the impression

that it's only parties of 6 or more when restaurants tack on that gratuity. Regardless, if the service stunk, you are under no obligation to tip at all. I usually start at 15-20% (15 for acceptable, 20 for good). And to be honest - $60 per couple is very cheap for NYC.

[CatsDogsBabies]

69. I think it is okay to leave a smaller tip if the service is bad

Everyone is looking at it as if the server is being done wrong if they don't get 20%, but what if some customer doesn't have a lot of money and has planned for a special event that includes eating out. Assume this customer fully intends to give a good gratuity, but experiences lousy service and an all around lousy product. Why should this person have to pay a large gratuity? I made my living as a waitress for many years, and people eat out in all different kinds of circumstances. Some people always tip well regardless of service, some people never tip well regardless of service, some people tip based on the quality of service. It has been about 20 years since I have waitressed, but I remember a couple that I waited on once that stiffed me, and in hindsight I don't blame them. They had made reservations for their anniversary dinner, and a table was reserved for them in another server's section. When the couple arrived (with their young well-behaved child who was also all dressed up like the couple), the server who was assigned to their section had a lot of personal problems at the time and asked if he could hand off that table to another server. I picked up the table, despite being very very busy in my own section, and needless to say, the couple got very bad service. Not just from me, but all around (slow kitchen etc). I think they were perfectly justified in not leaving me a tip. The only thing I think was unfair is that they paid for their meal despite receiving an all around bad product. It wasn't a cheap restaurant - probably average of $40 a person 20 years ago.

Why would anyone say that these people should have given 20% or stayed at home? It was suppose to be something special for the people eating out (and for anyone with children, you know how hard it can be to ever even get out to do anything when children are very young), why should they have to pay an expensive tab when the restaurant failed to deliver?

And, by the way, I actually had health/dental insurance with this job (and paid personal days and vacation). I paid something like $10 a paycheck towards the premium. I waitressed at other places as well when I was younger, but never at a place that offered benefits. I don't even know if restaurants offer benefits these days.

[Maine-ah]

80. nobody is saying that you should pay for bad service.

I'll give you some advice on this:

as soon as there is something wrong at your table whether it's the service or food...request the manager.

It's not an "assholy" thing to do, it's the right thing to do. We (servers, bartenders, restaurant owners ect..) can't fix the problem if you don't tell us.

You should tip on quality of service. If it's poor service, and unresolved even after talking to the manager, then tip accordingly or don't tip at all.

Remember, waitresses don't cook your food, so if it's a food issue, and the server does everything in their power to fix the problem, then tip appropriately. Always talk to the manager with problems a server can't fix. That's what the managers are there for.

If you can't afford to tip the server, either stay home or go to McDonalds. I know it sounds harsh, but why should I bust my ass waiting on you for 3.50 an hour? If I knew you weren't going to leave me a tip, I'd give you 3.50 an hour service. But I go into it thinking I'm going to get a big tip, so everyone gets the best service I can give. But if you don't leave me a tip, or a 10% tip, I'm going to remember your face and put you in the newbie's section.

[WI_DEM]

74. Pardner, the 10% tip is long gone. I think the norm is 20% now.

but to be fair I do tip based on service. If the waiter/waitress doesn't give good service there tip will decrease. They get much of there income from tips so it's in there advantage to deliver good customer service not sloppy.

[NeedleCast]

78. You Should Tip According to Service

and if it was bad WAIT STAFF service you should feel free to leave a small or no tip at all. However, 18% is pretty normal gratuity. Ten percent is low. Fifteen percent (I think) is fine, and I worked in the restaurant industry for years. I generally tip about 20 percent unles I'm eating alone, then I go about 25%, since I'm a slow eater and I'm taking up a 2 or 4-top table with one person.

[Hawkeye-X]

97. In this scenario (happened last night)

We waited 20 minutes before getting our orders through, the appetizer came promptly, all of our entrees except for my sister in law's arrived. We all ate, except for my poor SIL who had to wait another hour for her food. I've had to ask the waitstaff twice to check on the food. Needless to say, the food came through about 45-1 hour of waiting time.

We all had other things to do after dinner, and it was getting WAY late.

Just FYI.

I mean, how hard is it to make lasagna (which she ordered) and how long does it take? Does the chef place a single strand of cheese in each layer making it look perfect? Is that what is taking sooo long?

In this case, 18% gratuity wasn't justified.

Hawkeye-X

[NeedleCast]

102. Come on man, people make mistakes

From the POV of a person who used to manage a large restaurant, there are a couple of things here.

First I'll say that if I were the manager here (and if something like this happens, you really should ask to speak to a manager), I would have, at a minimum, comped the SIL's meal. If you were really waiting an hour because of something that wasn't your fault, I probably would have comped your whole check.

Something probably went wrong in the kitchen. It happens. New cook, under-staffed, poor communication...who knows. So far none of this is the fault of the server. Now if the server wasn't at least checking back with you regularly, you've got a legit resason for leaving a small or no tip.

But I start to slip away from your side of this argument when you start to pull the whole "OMG, How long does it take to make lasagna" condescending bullshit. Yeah, it actually does take a decent amount of prep time to make a decent lasagna, but in most restaurants it's just a matter of heating up and maybe doing a few other things to lasagna that was pre-made sometime during the day. It's one of those things where, if you treat people like humans, you'll generally make out okay but when you start that whole "how hard is your job" shit then - again assuming I was manager - I'd apologize for your experince with a smile, give you nothing, and secretly hope you die in a fire.

So, just for future edification, if you have an issue like this, don't take it out on the wait staff because chances are very good it wasn't their fault. Speak to a manager. I promise you that 90% of the time, the manager on duty or the GM is the *ONLY* person in the restaurant that can make this right by you. Wait staff in very, very few places have the ability to take an item off your check or comp a meal without manager approval.

[Maine-ah]

103. waitstaff does not make your food

did you speak to a manager at any point in time?

The only flaw I can possibly see with the server, is that she didn't send a manager over herself. That would have been the first thing I would have done as soon as there was a problem that I couldn't fix, even if you hadn't requested to see management.

But, my question still stands...at any point did you request to see a manager?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

86. I tip 15%-20% percent and use the total (tax included) as my base.

Servers are paid very little and they rely upon tips in order to eke out a living.

I now live in a northern burb of NYC and lived in the city for most of my life.

BTW...my father was notorious as an under-tipper and his kids would go back to the table and leave the rest of the tips all the time.

[karynnj]

87. Did they put it on the bill?

Some places do, but usually only if there are more than 6 people. We live outside NYC, but go in often. Most places do not put the tip on. As to custom, 10% would be a very low tip and $120 would be only $6 on $114 - closer to 5%. 15 to 20% is more typical.

Was the problem just the combined check - and your annoyance that you BIL didn't offer to pay a fairer portion? Your anger might be misdirected.

[On the Road]

91. Unless It's a Party of Six or More,

adding the tip to the bill is unusual. I don't blame you for complaining about that.

The reason restaurants add it to large parties often tip poorly. I had a party of 12-15 once who got good service but stiffed me completely. (For that matter, I hosted a party of DUers once where I ended up getting stuck for an extra $40 because a couple of people apparently didn't pay at all.)

Other than that, 20% is a pretty standard tip in a good restaurant in NYC or other major cities. It's an arbitrary price structure, but so it every other -- it just has to be figured into the price of the meal. I don't usually mind if an 18% is added to the bill, because I would normally tip 20%. But it does take away the option to stiff, which is sometimes warranted. It might have been in your case. Sounds like the restaurant may have been clueless about why so many customers didn't leave tips and decided to enforce it. Not a good policy IMO.

[rvablue]

92. $133 for four in NYC. Did you have drinks?

If so, and it was a small, independent place I would say this is quite a bargain.

And believe me, in NYC, you aren't buying a waiter or waitress dinner with your tip. They are paying their exhorbitant rents.

What you do wherever you live doesn't match what you do when you are in NYC. When in Rome...

[Hawkeye-X]

98. No drinks - the cost of soda was prohibitively ridiculous

4 dollars for a friggin' can of soda? Come on.

[GoneOffShore]

94. Was the dinner coming out late the server's fault or the kitchen?

Did you complain to management? or anyone?

And by the way, do you know what the hourly is for wait staff? It's about 1/2 the minimum wage. So bear that in mind. Minimum tip rate is around 15% - ABSOLUTE MINIMUM!

10% is derisory.

If you get rotten service - ie rude, no communication, overcharging, ignored when you motion for the server to come over - complain to the management. You might get part of your bill 'on the house.'

[AngryAmish]

95. Mr. Pink agrees with you