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We must stop pretending we did not know doctors were complicit in torture. From July 2004

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-07-09 08:34 PM
Original message
We must stop pretending we did not know doctors were complicit in torture. From July 2004
in the New England Journal of Medicine. We talked about it here.

Doctors and Torture

There is increasing evidence that U.S. doctors, nurses, and medics have been complicit in torture and other illegal procedures in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantanamo Bay. Such medical complicity suggests still another disturbing dimension of this broadening scandal.

We know that medical personnel have failed to report to higher authorities wounds that were clearly caused by torture and that they have neglected to take steps to interrupt this torture. In addition, they have turned over prisoners' medical records to interrogators who could use them to exploit the prisoners' weaknesses or vulnerabilities. We have not yet learned the extent of medical involvement in delaying and possibly falsifying the death certificates of prisoners who have been killed by torturers.

A May 22 article on Abu Ghraib in the New York Times states that "much of the evidence of abuse at the prison came from medical documents" and that records and statements "showed doctors and medics reporting to the area of the prison where the abuse occurred several times to stitch wounds, tend to collapsed prisoners or see patients with bruised or reddened genitals."1 According to the article, two doctors who gave a painkiller to a prisoner for a dislocated shoulder and sent him to an outside hospital recognized that the injury was caused by his arms being handcuffed and held over his head for "a long period," but they did not report any suspicions of abuse. A staff sergeant–medic who had seen the prisoner in that position later told investigators that he had instructed a military policeman to free the man but that he did not do so. A nurse, when called to attend to a prisoner who was having a panic attack, saw naked Iraqis in a human pyramid with sandbags over their heads but did not report it until an investigation was held several months later.

A June 10 article in the Washington Post tells of a long-standing policy at the Guantanamo Bay facility whereby military interrogators were given access to the medical records of individual prisoners.2 The policy was maintained despite complaints by the Red Cross that such records "are being used by interrogators to gain information in developing an interrogation plan." A civilian psychiatrist who was part of a medical review team was "disturbed" about not having been told about the practice and said that it would give interrogators "tremendous power" over prisoners.

Other reports, though sketchier, suggest that the death certificates of prisoners who might have been killed by various forms of mistreatment have not only been delayed but may have camouflaged the fatal abuse by attributing deaths to conditions such as cardiovascular disease.3

Various medical protocols — notably, the World Medical Association Declaration of Tokyo in 1975 — prohibit all three of these forms of medical complicity in torture. Moreover, the Hippocratic Oath declares, "I will use treatment to help the sick according to my ability and judgment, but never with a view to injury and wrongdoing."


We should not be surprised at the Red Cross report, and we need to stop pretending our country did not know.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-07-09 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. We did talk about it here at DU then, but it dropped quickly.
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slipslidingaway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-07-09 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. I remember ...knr n/t
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Most don't remember at all.
The media who are talking about it are pretending it is some new revelation. We have a lousy media in this country.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:13 PM
Response to Original message
4. This is going to be like trying to get Congress to bar CIA from posing as journalists . . .
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 10:17 PM by defendandprotect
now we have to get them to bar CIA from using doctors to aid torture --- ????

Yes, I sadly remember reading the stories --- and I think one of the medical

groups came out about a year or so ago against what had happened.

Obviously, anything and anyone can be corrupted -- with enough intimidation!

And we thought that this was all over in '45 . . . !!!
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. Last year was the psychiatric association.
They made some noise about sanctioning, even barring members who participated in torture, but that went away as fast as the original reports about the medical staff aiding and abetting torture and ignoring murder.

SOS, different year.
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. "National Security" is a blanket of intimidation over everything . . . .
democracy, freedom --
every nation
every profession
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Doctors and lawyers were among Hitler's most ardent supporters. As well
as industrialists, of course - for a number of years, throughout the West, as a whole. A bulwark against Communism, don't you know?

As regards psychologists and psychiatrists, also, what's new? We know about their role in Russia under Comunism.

The following is a quote from an article linked below it:

"We have even come across books about psychopathy that attempt to present the case that we are all psychopaths! So we see that there is a move towards damage control. Łobaczewski discusses the use of psychology and psychiatry as a tool of the pathocracy under communism. Well, we see the same thing today in the United States. There are deviants who become psychologists or psychiatrists and who try to rewrite psychology from the viewpoint of the pathological!"

http://uspolitics.tribe.net/thread/abb2282c-badb-464e-a08f-5bc8e63b1fd9
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. Yes . . .
Judges, as well, with the Nuremberg Laws.

Evidently, Nazis were used to found our CIA and many funneled into FBI.
See: Allen Dulles and Project Paperclip
NASA, of course, had Werner Von Braun -- and as I recall JFK was having a go-around
with him on the issue of nuclear fuel which they wanted to us.
"James Jesus Angleton" is another interesting book on the paranoia of intelligence and
the possibile interconnections with the JFK coup.

Coming back to psychiatry . . . Freud's talking cure was originally based on hypnosis,
but his disciples found that not all patients can be hypnotized and so it was changed.
It is also said that in Freud's treatment of females, he well understood that what
they were actually describing was sexual abuse by their fathers. Freud reversed this
into the "Oedipus Complex" in a betrayal of women.

Oedipus complex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Theory of the...|The evolution of...|The female...|Disagreements and...
The Oedipus complex, in psychoanalytic theory, is a group of largely unconscious ideas and feelings which centre around the desire to possess the parent of the opposite sex and eliminate the parent of the same sex. According to classical theory, the complex appears...


And, Naomi Klein mentions this use of McGill University/Canada by CIA for brainwashing

CANADIAN WOMAN LOOKS TO SUE FOR PROJECT MK-ULTRA BRAINWASHING AT MCGILL ...
CANADIAN WOMAN LOOKS TO SUE FOR PROJECT. MK-ULTRA BRAINWASHING AT MCGILL UNIVERSITY ... woman is seeking compensation from the Canadian government. CIA, ...


and these are just SOME of the things we have found out about!


Here's an article from last year by kpete ... popped up on intenet -

Physicians for Human Rights
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x3799930





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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. kick
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juno jones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:23 AM
Response to Original message
7. Wish I had seen this earlier to rec.
But a big kick anyway. For members of the medical community to participate in such crimes is unthinkable. Those who did should have their licsence to practice revoked for going against hippocratic oath to do no harm.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yep. We knew. Congress knew. The country knew. The world knew.
and still...nothing.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. And now we are going to let it all slide..
apparently.

:shrug:

I don't see how we can heal or how we can get back our moral standing in the world if we ignore it.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Sadly, I don't think it will take much lying and denial for most people
to tell themselves it's all better now.

Someone in Congress will proclaim, "We'll make new laws" ...and then some will cheer, "See! They're doing something about it!" - conveniently overlooking the fact that it was never - ever - about a lack of laws in place - but the lack of enforcing those laws and holding people accountable when they broke those laws.

Someone in D.C. will thunderously roar, "Never again!" and you'll hear the crowd cheer....all the while the guilty go about their lives, comfortable in the knowledge that they got away with it. And the only lesson learned benefits the future wanna-be tyrants, who know exactly what the American people will allow and turn a blind eye to...they know exactly what they can get away with...and next time - and there will be a next time - it will be worse. And why not? - with absolutely no accountability for their crimes.

As more and more time passes only those who truly desire justice will still be demanding it - and more and more voices will raise themselves against accountability because - and we've all heard these excuses before ..."That's the past", "We can't change the past", "We can't right all the wrongs of the past" - and isn't it ever so convenient to wait and wait until so much time passes that people feel ever so comfortable saying those things?....always overlooking the fact that nothing was ever done about those abuses and those crimes when they first took place.

And all the while, America will portray itself as a beacon of light, the champion of human rights, and the defender of freedom.







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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
11. Send complaints to the state licensing boards of the MDs and nurses involved.
If they have to face official action from the people who hold the power to take away their licenses, doctors and nurses may hesitate to help in torture in the future.

Physicians are already bowing to pressure not to participate in executions in the U.S.----even if all they are required to do is OK a prescription for a lethal drug someone else will administer. The same kind of peer pressure and official oversight from the state licensing boards should be effective in this case.

Obviously some states will be more likely to act than others.
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grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sick and twisted freaks
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