Is it President Obama's religious values that form the basis for his opposition to gay marriage?

[AirBaud]

Reading his statement regarding the Iowa decision, I cannot understand why:

1. He would see a clear issue of denial of civil rights as something that should be decided on a state by state basis.

2. He would add to the statement that, while he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage.

I am almost certain that he would not want individual states deciding on the issue of interracial marriage. Why should this be any different?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

1. it shouldn't be, because he belongs to a church that is pro-gay marriage

So, it's really lame that he uses his religion as an excuse.

[NorthernSpy]

5. Which church?

As far as I know, Obama does not currently belong to a church.


Faux News has been bashing him for it, apparently.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

6. Well, his religion is UCC, which is pro-gay marriage.

[NorthernSpy]

8. He's quit that church.

And hasn't found another.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

10. Well, as far as I know, he's UCC, which is pro-gay marriage

You don't have to be a member of a church to be a religion.

I'm vaguely Catholic, and I'm not a member of any Church.

[Freddie Stubbs]

17. Has he stated the he is UCC?

:shrug:

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

21. Well, he belonged to a UCC church for a long time

That's often a sign of being UCC.

[Freddie Stubbs]

24. And he quit that church

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

27. Yeah, because of Wright

I haven't heard of any other reasons he quit.

[Vanje]

29. Was'nt Wright already retired as pastor, at the time?

[Freddie Stubbs]

32. Wright retired in February, Obama regigned from the church in May:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4533414

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/us/politics/01obama.html?_r=1&bl&ex=1212552000&en=4f275b18627314ec&ei=5087%0A

[uppityperson]

38. However, UCC is a group of churches, like Lutheranism is.

There are "churches", buildings with a pastor and congregation, within the larger UCC body. I grew up going to/being a member of a UCC church, but a different one from the one Obamas were members of.

Hence, he could still be UCC, just not a member of a particular church.

[Freddie Stubbs]

43. Or he could be a Christian unafilliated with any denomination

Either way it is just pure speculation.

[Vanje]

11. I'm sure he'll join another church

when it becomes politically expedient.

[polmaven]

18. He didn't quit because

of this issue, though. He quit the individual congregation of the UCC denomination because of the actions of its Pastor. I'm not at all sure, however, that he is at all committed to the UCC. He likely went there for the same reasons he ended up leaving it.

[Vanje]

19. He threw his own church under the bus

along with its pastor, a close personal friend , for political expedience.

[polmaven]

22. Actually, did you not listen

to some of the things Rev. Wright said about him after that excellent response that he had given about the controversy? Wright was/is in ths for, IMO, all the wrong reasons. Obama defended him and he wanted more publicity. He said som pretty nasty things about (the) Senator Obama.

[Vanje]

23. Yes. I know

Apparently Rev Wright felt hurt and bit back......for reasons of political expedience, of course.

[polmaven]

25. Do you not believe that the

defense Senator Obama gave of Rev. Wright was excellently done, and a true defense? Do you REALLY think that he turned his back on Wright BEFORE Wright said those horrid thngs to reporters?

I mean....some of what Wright said in that rant in the church were indefensable, but Obama defended HIM anyway. Wright did not like that Obama disagreed with him on some of his screed, and turned on Obama. Not the other way around.

[Vanje]

28. Taken in context

I actually agreed with Rev. Wright's words , in their full context. The full context was unfortunately not known to many Americans.
I agreed with Rev. Wright. I thought his words, cadence and sentiment sounded very much like Martin Luther King's.
Martin Luther King was also very critical of the United States of America.


I was very sorry that Obama felt he had to "defend" his friend , by damning his words.
I felt he "had" to do it for political expedience. And I lost a little bit of respect for Obama because of it.

Wright's betrayal of Obama was also a disgrace.

[polmaven]

31. "I disagree with what he said"

are NOT damning words. And are you saying that the things Wright said about Senator Clinton were OK as well? Clinton supporter or not, do you think that a church service was the proper place for that? It was an uncalled for screed. Obama said he did not agree with what was said. NOT damning words.

[Vanje]

33. I'm NOT a Clinton supporter

I suppose I should be glad you didnt call me a PUMA.
I supported Obama. I caucused for Obama. I phone banked for Obama. I sent him checks . I unreservably gave him my vote.

I didnt know that Wright said anything negative about Sen. Clinton.
Even though, I did not support Clinton in the election, I believe she is worthy of great respect. I would be dismayed to hear Rev. Wright talk negatively about her.

[polmaven]

41. Where did I say you WERE

a Clinton supporter? You don't have to be a supporter to think that what he said about her...during that same service...was absolutely uncalled for. "Has Hillary Clinton ever been called a nigger?" etcetera......He was on a rant about how unacceptable SHE was. Perhaps you should listen again to that "sermon" and hear the things he said about her.

[Vanje]

35. Similar "screeds" have been voiced in black churches

in black churches by the likes of Martin Luther King.

The civil rights movement was a movement formed of and by black churches. These churches continue a tradition of addressing issues of poverty and justice with blunt honesty.
Its a little thing called speaking truth, even if that truth is hard to hear.

Obama had gone to that church and listened to Rev. Wright, all his adult life.
Dont you think its funny that Obama only discovered he "disagreed" with Wright AFTER Fox News started airing snippets that upset the nations gentry?
What a coincidence!

Perhaps Obama may have disagreed with his pastor all the while, but he only publicly dumped his old friend when it became politically expedient to do so.

I was disappointed in my candidates response to the Wright controversy.
I was also disappointed in Wrights response to Obama's betrayal.

[uppityperson]

37. UCC is not just one "church" building. There are a whole lot of them/us

Just because you quit going to one particular building, with one particular minister, doesn't mean you "quit that church".

[HereSince1628]

2. I rather suspect it is more his political values

Let's not forget that Obama is where he is because he is a politician.

[WI_DEM]

3. What forms ex-President Clinton's opposition to gay marriage? or 90% of all politicians

Bottom line is that they feel it is a no-winner politically, so they support civil unions instead.

[Solon]

4. In the Mid-90s, he was for Gay Marriage, now he's not, also I'd like to see where...

in the Bible that Marriage is defined as "One Man, One Woman". Frankly I think he's full of shit.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Vanje]

9. He's reaching across the aisle

Its a rightward reach.
Its a purely political consideration.

[mitchtv]

36. that's rightward reacharound

I believe

[Terran]

12. What exactly did he say?

Would you mind posting a link? Because a state-by-state solution conflicts with statements he and Biden made during the campaign. It's been my belief that he supports a federal-level civil union scheme.

[Solon]

13. Press Release on Iowa decision.

"The President respects the decision of the Iowa Supreme Court, and continues to believe that states should make their own decisions when it comes to the issue of marriage. Although President Obama supports civil unions rather than same-sex marriage, he believes that committed gay and lesbian couples should receive equal rights under the law."

Oh, and everyone I think knows that the whole idea of a "federal-level civil union scheme" is just a bunch of bullshit.

[Bluebear]

34. Nice of him to chime in.

[Terran]

44. Thanks for the quote.

I don't believe federal civil unions are bullshit, because both he and Biden said they supported this during the campaign, an it was on their web site. People have a variety of opinions about whether civil unions "work" at all, and that's debateable, but I do trust that Obama supports that solution honestly.

I'm fairly sure he privately supports marriage equality, but he's been convinced by those around him that it's politically impossible still.

[AirBaud]

14. I saw the statement at this link

http://www.advocate.com/news_detail_ektid77464.asp

[Uzybone]

15. No, its politics

no need to search far and wide for reasons. Its politics.

[WhollyHeretic]

16. He doesn't seem to really give a crap about gay rights at all

except for occasional lukewarm lip service.

[Occam Bandage]

20. No. Probably his political timidity-slash-pragmatism.

He doesn't want to 'waste' political capital on the word 'marriage.'

[defendandprotect]

26. You're right . . . . and Obama is wrong on this . . . .

since he's intelligent, I presume it's either holding on to some religious myth --

or political. In either case, it's sad!

[Vanje]

30. Which is better....

to betray an ally because you never really liked him anyway. Only sort of pretended to, because he was useful for a time?

Or betray an ally you love, but he is not politically popular?

[defendandprotect]

39. You question isn't really clear . . .

but, given Obama's intelligence, even if backing religious myth, it's still political --

cause I doubt he buys into all the religous stuff involved in religion.

And if purely political -- i.e., judging the way the wind is blowing -- it's just as

hypocritical.

If this is the case, then his political yearnings will lead to sell out of not only

gay marriage but other social issues, IMO.

[Orsino]

40. His rationale for opposing marriage equality is so flimsy...

...that his "religious values" must be equally suspect. American politicians find it expedient to profess Christianity and to hate on Teh Gay.

[MellowDem]

42. No, politics is...

Gay marriage is used as a wedge issue by the right and Obama wants to avoid it. We are not yet to the point where enough Americans support gay marriage (as opposed to civil unions) that it's a safe position to take. It costs a lot of political captial for relatively little gain. I don't expect much out of him until his 6th or 7th year in office, after mid-terms. THEN you might see a move made on DOMA.

Personally, I believe Obama is totally in favor of gay marriage. It's just not his priority right now and not something he wants to spend a lot of political capital on. He is laying the foundation for a lasting time of progressivism in America, which will most certainly lead to equality for all. But he can't lay down the roof without building the house underneath.