NY Times: "Iraq’s Newly Open Gays Face Scorn and Murder"

[HamdenRice]

As some of you are aware, there was an internet rumor that there are 128 gays on death row in Iraq about to be executed. There were also petition drives to ask various American and Iraqi officials to stop the "executions." That story turned out to be bogus, and has obscured the real violence against the GLBT community in Iraq -- which is mainly extra-judicial violence.

Today's NY Times has a fascinating story about the real violence which is as complex as it it chilling. Please read the entire piece, as it goes into the role that family members may be playing in these murders:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/08/world/middleeast/08gay.html?hp

Iraq’s Newly Open Gays Face Scorn and Murder

By TIMOTHY WILLIAMS and TAREQ MAHER
Published: April 7, 2009

BAGHDAD — The relative freedom of a newly democratic Iraq and the recent improvement in security have allowed a gay subculture to flourish here. The response has been swift and deadly.

In the past two months, the bodies of as many as 25 boys and men suspected of being gay have turned up in the huge Shiite enclave of Sadr City, the police and friends of the dead say. Most have been shot, some multiple times. Several have been found with the word “pervert” in Arabic on notes attached to their bodies, the police said.

“Three of my closest friends have been killed during the past two weeks alone,” said Basim, 23, a hairdresser. “They had been planning to go to a cafe away from Sadr City because we don’t feel safe here, but they killed them on the way. I had planned to go with them, but fortunately I didn’t.”

Basim, who preferred to be called “Basima” — the feminine version of his name — wears his hair long for Iraq. It falls to just below the ear. His ears are pierced, uncommon for Iraqi males. White makeup covers his face, a popular look for gay men in Sadr City who say they prefer light skin.

...

But that has not changed the reality that Iraq remains religious, conservative — and still violent. The killers, the police say, are not just Shiite death squads, but also tribal and family members shamed by their gay relatives. (And the recent spate of violence has seemed aimed at more openly gay men, rather than homosexuality generally.)

[aquart]

1. Probably not the time to be so open.

[closeupready]

2. Do you have any proof that the story of 128 executions is "bogus"? No, I didn't think so.

It was merely a story which some here claim was unable to be corroborated or confirmed.

[HamdenRice]

4. Amnesty International and the State Department

It's been cited over and over again. They say that the condemned were convicted of other offenses. If there are 128 prisoners about to be executed and any number greater than zero of them were convicted of other offenses, then, therefore, there are not 128 gay prisoners about to be executed.

Even the blogger who started the rumor only claimed that 5 of the 128 are believed to be gay.

[closeupready]

5. Why do you continue lying? 5 of the 128 are members of Iraqi-GLBT.

I have told you this, giving you cites, THREE TIMES. In Hili's estimation, many more than 5 are gay.

[HamdenRice]

7. Amnesty and the State Department say they were convicted of

murder, kidnapping, insurgency, etc.

But believe what you want to believe.

[closeupready]

8. Since Iraqi authorities refuse to release information on these prisoners,

hard to believe either Amnesty or the State Department can know, isn't it?

[HamdenRice]

11. Works both ways, doesn't it? nt

[closeupready]

13. No, because Hili is a native of Iraq. Amnesty and the State Dept. don't have the same network

of native contacts to work with. Further, since five of his organization's members are among these 128, he would seem to be better-positioned to be authoritatively informed than a Western human rights organization or even the US State Department.

[HamdenRice]

15. Amnesty has the best networks of people on the ground in the world

Hili is a lone blogger in London. The State Department routinely calls Baghdad contacts at the embassy and in the Iraqi government to confirm or refute facts alleged by citizen inquiries, such as the Edge newspaper questions.

I'll go with Amnesty and the State Department. Feel free to believe the rumor that has metasticized from Hili's blog entry if that's what you prefer.

We'll agree to disagree.

[closeupready]

19. Agreeing to disagree is fine with me.

But I will continue countering false claims, as necessary. Cheers.

[Freddie Stubbs]

18. Does Amnesty International have a history of covering up human rights abuses?

:shrug:

[closeupready]

20. You're missing the point.

Hili is a native of Iraq - an asylee who is a member of an Iraqi organization known as Iraqi-GLBT. He claims that at least five of these 128 people scheduled to be executed are members of Iraqi-GLBT, and has further stated that more of these 128 are likely gay, convicted of 'morals crimes', which is an increasingly common 'crime' charged against gay people in Iraq.

It's worth pointing out that testimony from people like Hili is the kind of testimony which is often most authentic and invaluable in demonstrating human rights abuses, rather than statements from the US State Dept., which may or may not care enough to either collect necessary data or to connect the dots showing a pattern of homophobic oppression, or even lauded human rights organizations like Amnesty, which I help support financially, by the way.

And for the record, to my recollection, Amnesty did NOT contradict Hili's claims. They characterized the situation on the ground there in different terms. I'd have to go back and look at their statement to state how it differs from Hili's claims.

[closeupready]

9. Also, Hili claims that many are likely to have been convicted of "morals crimes", euphemism for gay

You may recall Ahmadinejad claiming there are no gays in Iran. Well according to Iranian orthodoxy, there aren't. There are, however, men who commit crimes against morality, i.e., men who have sex with men.

[Echo In Light]

17. Not knowing one way or the other, doesn't it seem likely they'd be "accused" of something other...

...than their homosexuality as proper "justification?"

As in, the anti-terror legislation in America has clearly and repeatedly been used against anti-war groups, dissidents, religious groups, so it's obvious who the 'real' targets of the phony "war" are...but, let's say you're a major organizer in your community re anti-war demonstrations, and the cops lean on you, or worse, over some technicality of exactly where you were marching, when in actuality, the establishment is really only fucking w/you due to your anti-establishment views, but they won't come right out and admit it even tho it's a given.

[mitchtv]

3. I don't see any contradictions in this new story

and the old one. NYT used more conservative numbers the Iraqi Gays original report may differ slightly but your contention that the story was "bogus" is well, just that.Whos' to say the NYT is not being cautious ? We Gays are quite used to atrocities upon our community being played down. Why some say it's even been done in DU !

[AirBaud]

6. I think that you don't really care much about this subject.

I think its just an excuse to trot out the "false 128" story. To show that gays just don't really have it that bad and are just whining.

Of course, I haven't been here very long.

[mitchtv]

10. doesn't take long

to get it right does it?

[Name removed]

12. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Maven]

14. Kindly provide proof that the executions are bogus or STFU

I am SO SICK of your ANTIGAY TROLLING

[HamdenRice]

22. Your insults are getting tiring

The links to Amnesty International have been posted several times.

[Maven]

23. What is tiresome is your thinly veiled agenda

It has been pointed out in detail that the information you're referring to is unreliable considering its source and that more reliable sources on this matter have identified several GLBT targets of these executions.

Be sure to let me in on your next rally-the-troops thread pitting the AA Group against GLBTs. :eyes:

[HamdenRice]

24. "the information you're referring to is unreliable"

Yeah, Amnesty International -- unreliable!

:silly: :crazy: :silly:

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Maven]

25. Never mind.

I'm not even continuing to feed this...you know.

[BostonMa]

16. becoming spam

[NorthernSpy]

21. Well, I'm glad there ~aren't~ 128 gays on Iraq's death row.

The report about the extrajudicial killings is bad, though.