What's so hard about stopping these pirates? Station armed marines on these ships

[ddeclue]

as they transit the area and let these pirates find out the hard way.

Doug D.

[immoderate]

1. The problem is...

Most ports prohibit weapons on cargo ships.

--imm

[Occulus]

22. Post offices and distribution centers do, too

but I've seen Postal Inspectors in our facility, and they're always armed.

[misanthrope]

161. So have them board and disembark away from the port...

...Meet them in the harbor or just past the mouth.

[StreetKnowledge]

164. Helicopters and Convoys, then.

Meet up as many cargo ships and tankers as possible, and then assign a few Navy ships. Keep a LHA in the area, with 1000-1500 Marines on board. Have V-22s and helicopters on board, and carry the Marines to and from the cargo ships. Out of the danger zone, lift them off with the aircraft.

A Canadian frigate got into it a few months ago with these pirates, and even a small warship like that easily pounds a bunch of lunatics in a boat.

[old mark]

2. Evidently the people on the ship were armed themselves, and were

able to overcome the pirates. The ship was not armed, but the crew is.
My understanding is that everyone sailing in that area know enough to carry personal weapons along.


mark

[cali]

6. the captain is being held hostage on a life boat. this is not over.

[Statistical]

173. Nope.

Carry weapons on board and you can't dock in virtually all foreign ports.

Try to smuggle one in and if the port authority or customs finds it you will spend long time in a foreign prison.

[old mark]

177. I saw several "authorities" stating that ALL members of the crew were armed,

and that NO ONE sails that area without weapons. And it was on TV, so it must be true....

mark

[sharp_stick]

3. The ships are huge

and run with quite small crews. It's not hard for a small boat to sneak up on one without them ever knowing it's there. I like the idea of mounting .50cal machine guns on each side fore and aft and manning them as they move through the area.

More security is a must now, there is no Government in place to sanction and you can't just keep paying them off whenever they take a ship.

[peace13]

4. Oh that sounds sweet.

Why don't we just buy the shipping companies and have our military run them. We don't even feed or clothe our own troops. We don't have the man power to stabilize one of our wars. Where would these folks come from?

[ddeclue]

5. Umm. were already patrolling the area with our Navy.. manpower is NOT an issue.

It costs more and is less effective to do random patrols than to put our manpower directly where the bad guys are going.

Alternatively (but more expensively) why not armed escorted convoys.

Doug D.

[MADem]

11. They are doing escort work, to some extent.

The Indian Navy just sent a ship out to follow some unarmed vessels.

[peace13]

30. Manning every boat and patrolling the area seems two different mission to me.

It's a big pond out there. How about the shipping companies provide their own security or get out of the business? Why do we have to mop up after every failing business? The American people are tapped out.

[Obamanaut]

35. I sorta thought we wanted to downsize our military, closing bases

overseas (there are hundreds, you know) bring the troops home, reduce military spending.

Armed escorted convoys doesn't seem to fit into that, does it?

[soothsayer]

7. Nah, you need big cannons, blackjacks, and cutlasses. THEN you can fight pirates!

PS don't forget the plank!

[T Wolf]

8. The cost for their security should be the responsibility of the corporation that owns the

god damned ship - not the US government's (i.e., our tax dollars).

[ddeclue]

15. To a certain extent true but that all depends on how you look at it..

Piracy drives up prices for American consumers and if you are talking about oil or natural gas or weapons shipments then there is a decidedly a vital national interest at stake.

We have always viewed fighting piracy as a responsibility of the Navy going back to its earliest days and not a pay per service arrangement.

On the other hand, one could argue that the responsibility for these ships properly belongs to the nation under whose flag they are registered. If you are using Denmark or Haiti or Panama or whatever country instead of the U.S. to avoid U.S. laws, taxes and wages then perhaps we don't always have a responsibility - these guys should be using U.S. registry if they want U.S. protection. I can see that argument.

I think it would depend on a case by case basis and I think that perhaps these companies ought to be paying something but again I don't know of a coherent answer that applies to all cases. In the most recent case, a number of U.S. citizens were aboard these vessels and the U.S. has an obligation to defend its citizens in this situation.

Doug D.

[Mike Daniels]

179. Yet, watch how many people here on DU bitch if a company starts offering to shadow the carriers

for a fee.

Once a small skiff with an armed crew is approaching a tanker it's safe to say that they aren't the welcome wagon.

However, I guarantee that if a privately contracted ship attacked the skiff and killed the pirates during the process of the pirates trying to take over the cargo carrier you'd have every DU'er who sees the pirates as nobleup in arms over the situation.

[endarkenment]

9. 1? 10? 100? on every ship?

Who pays for that? How exactly are we empowered to station marines on non-US flagged merchant ships?

I know, why not just garrison the entire planet and pretend we can shoot our way to peace and security?

Oh wait...

[ddeclue]

16. Um probably 10 would be enough and it wouldn't be forced upon anyone..

it would be by invitation of the ships masters or captain.

If we are invited, I don't see how there is any issue of "empowerment".

And NOBODY is arguing that you can "shoot our way to peace and security" but your argument is post hoc ergo prompter hoc - if we don't defend these ships, it doesn't mean they aren't gonna be attacked. You are blaming the attacks on the presence of the U.S. military - the military presence is in RESPONSE to the attacks which came first, not the other way round.

:crazy:

[LaydeeBug]

131. Fascism anyone? nt

[Posteritatis]

176. So you want to add half again or double the crew to most of them?

Your typical modern freighter or container ship has about a dozen crew.

Also, there's thousands of ships in the region. This silly bullshit about stationing a squad of soldiers on every one assumes the manpower to send them exists.

[Iggo]

43. And if we put armed uniformed marines...

...on a US-flagged ship, does that mean it's now a warship?

(Seriously. I don't know.)

[ddeclue]

81. I don't think it would be if it were privately owned.

Do US flagged airliners become military aircraft just because the government might contract with a civilian carrier to move troops from point A to point B? They have certainly done this many many times over the years.

[LanternWaste]

105. Not a warship per se, but it does become by definition a ship of war..

Not a warship per se, but it does become by definition a ship of war, and must then act in accordance with international military and naval accords, and falls under the jurisdiction of the U.S. navy. Additionally, the ship becomes restricted in which particular bodies of water it may travel through (by agreement, many international waters do not allow ships of war).

Source: To Rule the Waves: How the British Navy Shaped the Modern World, by Arthur Herman

[ddeclue]

119. Does an airliner chartered by the military then become a "aircraft of war"

Just asking...

:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

123. I don't know...

To Rule The Waves didn't deal with aircraft-- either civilian or military, it was specific to the general history of western naval warfare, so I can't really answer your question other than with a guess.

My guess is no, as the vast majority of military chartered aircraft are requisitioned to do one thing-- transport. And as soldiers during transport are not combat ready as would be our fictional marines stationed on a commercial ship as per your scenario, I would imagine that those specific airlines are not covered by U.S. 9or international) military rules of engagement, and their concomitant treaties.

Chartered aircraft are not actually requisitioned, but "rented"-- seats paid for by the U.S. govt., and flown with civilian passengers also. It would seem to that if military personnel were *stationed* on a private aircraft rather than simply using it for transit, it may then become a war plane.

Just answering...

:shrug:

edit: spelling

[ddeclue]

128. OK middle case: Troop ship...

What about a troop ship leased to the government to haul troops to a war zone?

:shrug:

[LanternWaste]

148. Again... don;t know.

Again... don't know. And again, it would be no more than a mere guess on my part and I certainly wouldn't want to waste anyone's time with nothing more than guesses on my part unless we were referring specifically to the years 1788-1946. However I imagine that, again it would depend on the presence of combat ready troops v. troops in transit.

I'm simply not a very clever person as are most who post on DU. Might I refer you to the following as a valid source material if the topic piques your curiosity or interest:

1. United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea
2. Geneva Conventions on the Laws of War, Common Article 3(1)
3. United Nations Convention on the Law of the Sea



I imagine if the above does not directly address your concerns and questions, they would be a wonderful starting place.

[Democracyinkind]

10. Sure. MIC meme. NO taxes to protect corporations. Let the free market deal with it

... or let the mafia pay reparations for dumping nuclear waste into somalian waters.

Even better: Sue the Chinese who systematically over fished Somalian waters with their floating factories in order to re empower the somali "pirates" to what they have been - fishermen.

And yes, i know. Somalia is a mess, the fishing industry didn't work wonders but it was one of those last threads that held together at leasts part of the country. And it fed people.
So saying "that's of no use now" is a bit like saying it's ok to rape a corpse.
But I tend to be extreme when it comes to eastern africa.

Soobax!

[friendly_iconoclast]

12. You are excusing banditry by putting "pirates" in quotes.

There's a certain mindset that say only people from rich industrialized countries are capable of agency,
and everybody else is just acting out.

It's like saying Al Capone became a "gangster" due to anti-Italian prejudice

Those guys make a nice living grabbing ships at gunpoint. They are criminals

[Democracyinkind]

14. No No No. I don't like them any more than you do. Some of them are criminals, some warlord-

footsoldiers, some terrorists.
The bulk of the unprofessional heads-on attempts without ransom is made by "pirates" - fishermen who lost their means of production. they do not make a nice living. it's not all Jack Sparrow, you know.
The common pirates, those by profession, I don't care about.

I just think that in the case of Somalia this distinction is justified. That doesn't count for Manila-style organised piracy.

[ddeclue]

17. These guys in Somalia are well organized and well armed - it is a business for them.

Stop making excuses.

[Democracyinkind]

20. My friends in Somalia - the fishermen - make a pretty convincing case.

Stop branding them all in the same way.

[ddeclue]

23. Bullshit.. I've seen enough reports to know that people who seize tanker ships and freighters

are doing it for RANSOM money and NOT to prevent over-fishing.

Stop the B.S.

:argh:

[Democracyinkind]

59. Nobody said they're doing it to prevent overfishing. They are doing it

... because they have nothing to fish for anymore. Stop twisting my words.

enough reports? University reports? Papers? Independent on-location journalists?
I don't think so. Education. Beats the press everytime.

[ddeclue]

67. No what you are doing is MISINFORMATION.

And NOTHING justifies PIRACY, MURDER and KIDNAPPING. I have NO sympathy for them and you will NEVER change my opinion on that. You are delusional.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

69. Well, just because you are DISINFORMED facts don't become MISINFORMATION.

[ddeclue]

72. No I'm INFORMED you're MISINFORMED. Sorry but that's YOUR problem not MINE.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

76. Ok. See you. I liked your arguments. Have a nice day.

[LanternWaste]

114. I think you're confusing anecdotal and hearsay...

I think you're confusing anecdotal and hearsay evidence with valid, peer-reviewed information. Jane's has a quarterly magazine review which seems to contest your friends information...

[Democracyinkind]

134. I have previously stated that on the issue of nuclear waste disposal by organized crime

I can only trust the people I know doing the research. I would be highly critical of any article on this subject in any publication, because I have witnessed extreme cases of deliberet misinformation, and I can only guess the source. As soon as things improve just a bit in Somalia there will be the possibility of scientificaly documenting what is fact. But we can't do it now and we can't do it as long as things stay they way they are down there. I'll be the first to tell you if the people I know have been subject to some kind of global elaborate hoax.

Until then I can't base my information on peer-reviewed material. It would have been a nice subject for my master thesis but it seems time isn't on my side. So you have a point.

[Mike Daniels]

180. So, then they can take revenge on the companies that overfished the area

Capturing ships in open waters for ransom is piracy.

That the ships they are capturing have little or nothing to do with their economic situation only removes any justification they may be trying to spew as PR.

Spin, spin, spin all you want. It doesn't change the facts that they're thugs practicing an act that is considered an international crime. Even the UN isn't trying to justify this crap.

[Lisa0825]

19. Here is an interesting article about the "pirates."

I was unaware of the background until I read this.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann-hari/you-are-being-lied-to-abo_b_155147.html

You Are Being Lied to About Pirates

The words of one pirate from that lost age - a young British man called William Scott - should echo into this new age of piracy. Just before he was hanged in Charleston, South Carolina, he said: "What I did was to keep me from perishing. I was forced to go a-pirating to live." In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country's food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas.

Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died. Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: "Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it." Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to "dispose" of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: "Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention."

At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia's seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia's unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: "If nothing is done, there soon won't be much fish left in our coastal waters."

This is the context in which the men we are calling "pirates" have emerged. Everyone agrees they were ordinary Somalian fishermen who at first took speedboats to try to dissuade the dumpers and trawlers, or at least wage a 'tax' on them. They call themselves the Volunteer Coastguard of Somalia - and it's not hard to see why. In a surreal telephone interview, one of the pirate leaders, Sugule Ali, said their motive was "to stop illegal fishing and dumping in our waters... We don't consider ourselves sea bandits. We consider sea bandits those who illegally fish and dump in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas." William Scott would understand those words.

[ddeclue]

21. I call BULLSHIT - these guys go out in zodiac boats with AK47's and RPG's

stop trying to spin them as victims.

These are just the water borne version of the warlords who ran Somalia for so long.

I've seen plenty of reports on this. They deserve to be shot if they want to engage in piracy on the high seas.

[Democracyinkind]

27. Bubba. Ever been to tha horn?

Start listening to K'naan. One step at a time.
Or go to a college lecture on the Horn. It tends to be enlightening.

As I said. There are professionals. They are a minority because it is not a business in which unplanned, intel-devoid actions have any rewards. The professionals are a minority.

Been there, seen that, got the T-shirt.

[ddeclue]

31. Whatever, I've lived and travelled all over the world to 5 of the 7 continents

and 17 countries - I've lived overseas almost 8 years of my life. I'm not some never been anywhere yahoo.

Piracy is piracy and if you're an "amateur" pirate then perhaps you should consider another line of work - I have NO sympathy for someone who robs a Circle K or hijacks a freighter on the high seas.

:argh:

[Lisa0825]

36. Did you even read the article?

Yes, many, if not most are criminals taking advantage of the situation. But if this situation was created out of a set of circumstances, then those circumstances need to be addressed too, not only the pirates.

[ddeclue]

37. Yes and I STILL don't give a damn you DON'T get to engage in PIRACY and MURDER - two wrongs don't

make a right.

:argh:

[Lisa0825]

42. NO BUT YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THE ROOT PROBLEM

IF YOU WANT A LASTING SOLUTION.

If we just start killing the pirates and never address the injustices, then the pirates will just be able to recruit more and more people to replace the ones we kill.

:argh: back atcha! ;)

[ddeclue]

45. We TRIED that back in the 1990's with Somalia and got soldiers killed for our efforts.

I have NO sympathy for anyone who wants to engage in piracy.

The REAL solution is to make it clear to would be pirates that we are going to kill you dead and you aren't going to get a dime.

THAT will put an end to piracy and the would be pirates will find some other way to make a living.

Stop making EXCUSES for CRIMINAL and IMMORAL behavior!

:argh:

[Lisa0825]

50. I am not fucking making excuses.

I would like to see an end to this too. I am saying that this mess cannot be stopped without attacking from several angles, INCLUDING the root causes of the conflict. You just think we should kill 'em all and think they won't come back? That's moranic.

[ddeclue]

53. Umm YES I think if you kill enough pirates, people stop wanting to be pirates!

How many people rob armored cars?

Not very damned many because they are armored and have armed guards.

What's "moranic" is people who want to sing kumbaya and make excuses and then expect the pirates to stop being pirates.

:argh:

Doug D.

[Lisa0825]

56. Bullshit.

But go on and keep fooling yourself.

The pirates are hugely popular among the people BECAUSE of their feelings of persecution by other countries. They will continue to replace every pirate we could kill, and might even increase in numbers if their anger and resolve grows out of defiance.

[ddeclue]

61. NOT bullshit. You are the bullshitter here not I.

They WON'T keep replacing every pirate we kill because there really aren't that many to start with. You are insane to think that boats and pirates are gonna appear out of thin air to replace what we take out. That's just insanity.

:crazy:

[Lisa0825]

63. The people support them. They will replace them. nt

[ddeclue]

64. With WHAT? WHERE are the boats gonna come from?

Be SPECIFIC not bulshitting.

There are a limited number of boats and then CAN ALL be destroyed much faster than they can be replaced.

If enough of these pirates are killed and their boats sunk, it WILL stop.

You live in a fantasyland.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

71. They breed like rabbits brother. Tick Tack. 3 new pirates born just as we speak. WAKE UP man.

[ddeclue]

73. Could you BE more racist? and delusional?

Pirates need boats and where are they coming from? In this case they need motorized boats capable of keeping up with ocean going shipping - not cheap, certainly not in Somalia.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

78. Africa is the junkyard of the planet and they have very skilled mechanics

They have a 5'000 yrs. history of building boats and as I said in a politically incorrect way: they'll have 100 pirates for every vessel you send. We can't afford to play cat and mouse with half of our fleet ... it would make the hotpants delivery ships unprofitable.

But okay. Since they are so dumb we probally just have to kill enough of them. Like in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, Guatemala, Chile and wherever it worked so well for us.

[ddeclue]

79. Trust me this is NOT a jungle war or anything like a guerilla war.

and the pirates have very limited resources and CAN be stopped.

Your defeatism is just a lame excuse because you really don't want to see the piracy stopped and you unfairly blame these merchantmen sailors as being responsible for the acts of others in the West which they are NOT. You can't punish these sailors to achieve compensation for some wrong perceived or otherwise. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[Democracyinkind]

82. No I can't, but people who are denied compensation can and will. That's all I'm sayin'

I know they're not responsible. But for them it's the white mans ships that dumped that shit, so for them it's the white mans ship that they're going to attack.

I don't think that's good or right but I can understand them. I think I would pretty much do the same thing, it's all just a question of how desperate things get.

[ddeclue]

88. Sorry but you are assigning motives that simply are NOT there - this is criminality, piracy&murder

and you are trying to dress it up and give it legitimacy when it deserves none.

NO these people will NOT continue to engage in piracy if we make it clear that they will be killed and will NOT profit by it.

Doug D.

[Democracyinkind]

93. Well look. I like your Reagan/Bush policy. I've just had enough of it.

I just trust my University and the students actually doing research in Somalia so much more than I trust your hearsay, oh, wait, you didn't even bring hearsay into the game. Not much to work with.

Let's agree to disagree? ok. We're not getting any further, it must look stupid to others. m'kay?

[ddeclue]

97. No I don't trust your university - why should I? You are clearly NOT engaged in objective research..

you have an agenda and are searching for facts to prove it true rather than trying to disprove it.

I've seen enough different media sources to know this is crap and I've been outside the country in the last 6 months as well so don't tell me it's all US MSM and I've been "brainwashed".

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

102. No actually, as I said, NO MSN ANYWHERE WILL EVER REPORT THIS.

You know, Europes nuclear gangs are pretty beefy to, they keep it shut. But, just as in america, there is the odd percent or so who actually SPENDS it's free time travelling there and researching it.

I'll take grassroots investigations over coorparate news anytime... I don't have an agenda. I just don't want you neocolonial bullshit to go uncontested. I thought we we're fighting ignorance here, interested in facts.

[ddeclue]

107. Oh bullshit... these sailors in their cargo ships are NOT "neo colonialists"

If your actors were attacking someone actually responsible for their plight you MIGHT have a case. Your excuse is that they lost their wallets in the bushes and are looking for them under the street lamp because the light is better there. It is NOT a valid rationalization to say that just because they have been victimized that it gives them the right to victimize ANOTHER INNOCENT party.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

122. We'll, who's the racist? And not the sailors are neocolonial, your views are.

Which is def. proof that you're not even reading. just writing. I'll leave you the monologue then.

[ddeclue]

125. We'll? = We Will? do you mean "Well"??

My views are NOT racist - yours are.

You are the one giving them an ethical/moral/legal pass because of who and where they are.

I am holding them to the same standard as I would hold anyone else who committed these crimes.

[Democracyinkind]

127. Sorry, it's past midnight, errors will occur. Your bush/wallet comment was racist.

[ddeclue]

129. No it's not...

If I lose my wallet in the bushes why would I look for it under the light other than the light's better there?

You really are bizarre.

[amyrose2712]

187. I don't think anyone is saying it's right.

I think what is being said is sometimes when you have nothing you go to extremes to survive.

[Democracyinkind]

68. something new to say?

[Hugabear]

83. Wow, that worked so well with terrorists, let's do it with pirates also!

Except people are STILL becoming terrorists, despite the fact that we've killed tens of thousands over the past decade or so! Kinda blows a huge hole in your theory.

[Lisa0825]

89. BINGO!

Thank you!

[Democracyinkind]

90. No they're not! STOP defending INHUMANS! We just need to kill 3.5 more and it's done..

sarc.

[Hugabear]

94. Sometimes you gotta crack a few eggs to make an omlet, donchya know?

Kill them all and let God sort them out. Anybody who opposes the imperial will of the US is a terrorist, haven't you heard?

[amyrose2712]

186. HOORAH!

[ddeclue]

95. Nope didn't say that - they are HUMAN and are RESPONSIBLE for their actions.

If you want to act like a criminal expect consequences.

Doug D.

[ddeclue]

92. Umm NO it doesn't..

We aren't invading their homeland. Different rationale entirely. These criminals are coming out in little boats and you aren't gonna win against the US Navy on that basis. Assymetric warfare only works under very specific conditions - this isn't one of them.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

96. The cole has shown us that much. Assymetric warfare somehow never plays out as good as it sounds.

Ask the germans burried in Njamwesi.

[ddeclue]

99. The Cole was ten years ago under different circumstances - no points you fail.

Nobody in a zodiac boat is going to be allowed anywhere near a US combat ship like that.

You really are delusional.

[Hugabear]

100. Then you obviously didn't even bother reading the article, did you?

We don't have to technically invade their homeland. We can trash their homeland without even setting foot on it. But hell, you obviously don't care about WHY these people are acting the way they are. You don't care about the root causes, you'd just rather kill them all like so many bugs.

[ddeclue]

103. No I OBVIOUSLY read it and DISAGREED ANYWAYS.

I am under NO obligation to agree with everything I read.

:crazy:

These people are acting this way to enrich themselves just as Bonnie and Clyde did robbing banks in the 1930's. You are too busy looking for "root causes" when there really aren't any but GREED.

:crazy:

[Hugabear]

178. Oh bull-fucking-shit

What's next, are you going to tell us that terrorists hate us because of our freedom? Keep swallowing the MSM line. Don't bother scratching the surface. Obviously, YOU have been to these areas, YOU have first-hand knowledge, therefore YOU are in a position to tell us that they are simply motivated by pure greed.

[Democracyinkind]

104. No he doesn't, and that's why I'm out. Thank you for contributing.

Your reason is needed and appreciated. Nice day to you Hugabear!

[NashVegas]

136. I Don't See Any Reason Why Anyone Should Make Excuses

The Western world creates its own problems when its elites create ghettos in other lands, thinking no one will ever find out. Those who are left in such deplorable conditions have few options. The West can either help them back up, or pay the eventual consequences.

[Mike Daniels]

182. Attacking piracy in the Caribbean and US coastlines did pretty well

Once the pirates saw their acts were likely going to result in them swinging on a rope they basically found other occupations.

You can't crush it out completely but you can drive home that piracy is likely going to equal a very short life.

[Democracyinkind]

65. OH MY GOD! are you a liberal? READ YOUR HISTORY MAN

WE DID NOT HELP THEM IN 94.
IT WAS A BODYSNATCHER OPERATION that was done in a stupid, negligent cowboy manner and that's why it went wrong. We went in there way over our heads and got tricked by friction, held up by some mercenaries and kid soldiers. It was not a reconstruction operation, it was not even a peacekeeping Nation, even though they UN part of the mission was designated as one.

Somalia 94 is what you get for thinking you can step in without knowing shit and "get the bad guys".
Ring a bell?
Please don't freep on me here.

[ddeclue]

70. I don't need to read my HISTORY.. I was a grown adult at the time.

We went after Aideed (sp?) because he was killing civillians and stealing UN food destined for starving refugees for his warlord army.

You need to get a grip on reality.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

75. We "went after" Aideed indeed. I just don't think you get the reasons.

I don't think Aideed is representative of the Somali people. Aideed was a puppet whose very existence depended on foreign powers meddling in Mogadishu.
Aideed didn't play by the company rules and we wanted to try out a new outfit. It's still a mystery if he pissed off the french or the americans. Personally, I think he fell out with his french backers.

[ddeclue]

77. He was starving hundreds of thousands of Somalis to death who weren't on his side.

That's the reason we wen't after him. The same reason we went into Serbia also.

Doug D.

[Democracyinkind]

85. HaHa. The Serbs must love you. I suppose you didn't study intl. politics or history?

Just a notion, because somebody who had... Wouldn't say these things.
If you are interested in a scholarly view about Serbia or our intervention in Somalia, I can provide you with pdf's or a list of suggested reading.

My neighbour, the Serbian, once told me that the day he found out that Americans were even more clueless than his people under Tito was the day he wished Tito back. Talk about desperation.

[Name removed]

101. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Democracyinkind]

106. Haha. I was born in Europe and have lived there..umm..

20 years or so. Thanks bubba. So you're denying nuclear waste in Somalia? I'm out, you subscribe to a different reality than I do.

I think you should visit africa. talk to the people on the somali coast. Have a nice day.

[ddeclue]

108. No I'm denying that nuclear waste in Somalia is VALID justification for attacking innocent sailors

who did NOTHING to put it there.

You are an idiot - I'm not a "bubba" and never have been. When you don't have a valid argument you try to paint your opponent with a nasty label. As I've said I've lived and traveled all over the world and 8 years is plenty to know the difference between a "freedom fighter" and a criminal.

:eyes:

[Democracyinkind]

109. It's a REASON, not a justification. It's a REASON caused by us. CAUSALLY RELATED.

I told you 100 times that doesn't make them right or innocent. It makes them understandable.

[ddeclue]

115. NO IT'S an EXCUSE. REASONS ARE EXCUSES..

REASONS attempt to explain why we should EXCUSE behavior. I find them to neither be valid "reasons" NOR valid excuses. The people they are seeking redress from did NOT cause their problems. If I rob you at gun point, it does NOT justify you in turn robbing someone ELSE at gun point to get your money back, your problem is with ME, not THEM.

It does NOT make it "understandable".

:eyes:

Doug D.

[Democracyinkind]

153. Reasons attempt to explain behaviour. That is descrpitive vs. normative, philosophy 101

over and out.

[Lisa0825]

111. I'll buy him a ticket on a cruise to Somalia!

Wanna pitch in on it? :evilgrin:

[Democracyinkind]

124. Hehe. He could thank some freeper vigilantes with him to patrol the seven seas

... that would keep them off of our streets alright. :)

[ddeclue]

130. No - not interested.

And I don't believe in vigilantism any more than I do piracy.

[Hugabear]

87. Ain't you the same guy who thought Grenada posed a serious threat to us in the 80s?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5402332#5402713

[ddeclue]

117. Not to the mainland US, just to American students being held there.

Stop twisting my words.

[Democracyinkind]

126. You mean the Human Ecology Fund subproject we were running there?

had to edit for terminology, since it has to be peer-reviewed, as i just learned :-)

[endarkenment]

121. go figure

[Zodiak]

133. Killing them is not a deterrent

I have read an interview or two with some of these pirates, and they say time and again that they fully expect to die eventually, but it is worth it if they can keep the waste out of their waters and the fishing capacity of said waters returns. They do this for their families and their villages. It is those pirates I want saved, not sprayed all over the ocean so their children can evetually take their place.

We do not do ourselves any favors with the "I have no sympathy" argument. That is the argument we put forth to any poor peoples who have been taken advantage of by Western powers....we do not even listen to their motives, just judge and kill. It is arrogance in the extreme to be so assured of one's position that you do not even listen to the other side, and doubly arrogant to impose a death penalty in the absence of understanding.

[ddeclue]

142. Nonsense.. they are for profit pirates and killing them IS a deterrent

and in any event they only have a limited supply of boats. Once those are gone they can't really do anything else anyways.

It is NOT arrogance to demand that all people respect the rule of law and do not solve their problems by killing people who had nothing to do with their misery. To try to justify killing and robbing of third parties because of something a second party did to you is the actual arrogance.

[Zodiak]

149. You are not worth talking to

It is clear that you insult other DUers and insist on screaming your points to them. If you conducted yourself more appropriately, you would get a thoughtful response, but since you responded to everyone else's input with derision, I will just tell you to buzz off. Buzz off.

I have stated what the pirates have said. You obviously do not care, so why press the point further? Just insult me, call me some kind of defender of inhumans, and move on to insult the next DUer. That is your MO, and I refuse to give you more attention.

My point is for the casual reader, not the person jumping up and down who clearly was never interested in a discussion in the first place.

[Democracyinkind]

151. I don't get it. I wanted to discuss it too. But it doesn't seem possible.

Be assured that I find your points reasonable and was glad to read them.

[Zodiak]

154. Sometimes threads are not started for the purpose of discussion

I can speculate as to why in this particular case, but it is immaterial.

I just thought that I should interject that I have heard similar accounts from some of the pirates interviewed. To be honest, it was an eye-opening interview because up until then, I had not heard of the dumping and the fishing problems. Those two bits I researched and verified, which made the pirates story so much more believable to me (not believable as in I want to take up their cause, but believable in that I felt they sincerely were motivated by these events).

[Democracyinkind]

155. Think about this: If I had never met a refugee from Somalia, and then his friends, his family

..and would never have known or believed it. If you wouldn't have shown interest in the views of a Somali fisherman/pirate (as opposed to the gangster-warlord robbers) this would never have come up here.
I find that highly significant. Sometimes it just takes a compassionate coincidence.

[Zodiak]

159. I think it was a BBC interview I heard

Something that popped on the radio one day. Also, something I have never heard repeated in the US media.

[fascisthunter]

157. your friend's account has been reported

I wish I remembered the source though, because saying so doesn't make it so. I'll try and hunt it down a little later. This is important... when I see stuff on DU that aims at other countries around the Worlds, i get weary and doubtful, not just because the arguments are weak, but because the subject matter can lead to more war. Too much misinformation in this country has cost Americans dearly.

[Zodiak]

160. Actually, I have no somali pirate friends...LOL

But I do have a friend here or two from Somalia...they came to the US before the pirating began in earnest, though, and so have very little insight to give about the situation.

The report I heard was a radio interview by the BBC, I believe.

[fascisthunter]

162. ah... I was streaming International radio the other day

I just can't remember but am looking now. Here's an article from a different perspective:

"The outcry, addressed to the United Nations and the international community, was loud and bitter. "Help us solve the problem," said professional fisherman Muhammed Hussein from the coastal city of Marka, about 100 kilometers (62 miles) south of the Somali capital Mogadishu. "What is happening here is economic terrorism."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,594457,00.html

[Democracyinkind]

163. I think he meant the story I mentioned

.. He isn't a pirate either, just a refugee from the civil war who was destined to become a fisher. I'm not sure if it was his or his friends account that started this and I didn't want to claim that. It is hard to find advocates for unknown victims. I'll do anything that I can and further I am interested in a scientific way because I really was determined to write my master thesis on the subject of somalian piracy.

Actually the first time I heard the nuclear and overfishing thing in the open was when I saw a interview with K'naan, I think it even was on CNN. He is a Somali/American Hip-Hop artist who really has a deep message. Sometimes I think even his songs on the radio would make a difference. For anyone not interested in reading but curious about Somalia - check him out.

[fascisthunter]

165. Der Speigel has an Article That Mirrors Your Friend's Story.

I believe I got you two mixed up ad responded to the wrong person. Anyways, here's the a quote and a link:

"The outcry, addressed to the United Nations and the international community, was loud and bitter. "Help us solve the problem," said professional fisherman Muhammed Hussein from the coastal city of Marka, about 100 kilometers (62 miles) south of the Somali capital Mogadishu. "What is happening here is economic terrorism."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,594457,00.html

[Democracyinkind]

167. Thanks for the link. It mentions the Merca incident which the guys behind the story

have called "the smoking gun"

Der Spiegel really surprised me with that one. I think that article is unbiased and pretty good, at least it gives them a voice. I hope they're following this story. I know there are documents around that implicate the french (Areva - check them out; that's something like Europe's Carlyle, all the spooks and gray eminences of unified Europe) and there has always been talk about an american-russian connection to this. Time will tell.
The photo track too was good too.

Great call.

[Democracyinkind]

168. BTW I think if there will be UN hearings on this they will be in Geneva.

So if they take place I'll def. be there and hear it for myself. If so I'll post right away and we'll take up the fight anew.

peace!

[fascisthunter]

169. Thanks A Lot

I definitely will be keeping track of this story.

[Lisa0825]

171. That would be fascinating to attend!

If that does come to pass, please PM me so I will be sure not to miss your posts!

[Democracyinkind]

60. But one wrong sure does fill a belly. That's all we're saying.

[ddeclue]

62. This is NOT about "feeding" people, it's about criminals stealing and killing and kidnapping.

Your excuses are NO different than those who defended Bonnie and Clyde.

BULLSHIT.

:argh:

[Democracyinkind]

66. Bonnie and Clyde weren't starved by the banks they robbed, right?

[ddeclue]

74. That's NOT what they and their supporters were claiming..

they used the same rationalizing and moral/leagl equivocation you are using now.

You need to learn more about the history of the Great Depression apparently.

[Democracyinkind]

51. Lisa, I don't think people here want to make distinctions.

Which makes me all the more happy to read your posts.

[Lisa0825]

54. Thank you.

Good grief... punishing offenders and righting wrongs are not mutually exclusive.

I don't get why just presenting the facts about how this mess started is met with such a high degree of animosity on a LIBERAL site. :shrug:

[Democracyinkind]

57. I don't either because I think it's a shame that these people are criminals now.

Because unlike the warlords, they never wanted to be. I still believe they crossed a line that needs to be addressed but that does not prevent me from distinguishing the gangsters from the desperately hungry.

Anyway. Nice to see that facts do matter.

[Zodiak]

147. I think using "person" in the plural is stretching it

From what I've seen, it is one DUer who has posted 50 times or so, vehemently and with capital words in every message.

You are right it does look pretty stupid to the casual observer, but the source of it is not all of the participants.

[Democracyinkind]

152. I was so caught up I actually realized his being only 1 very late.

It felt like being attacked by the Rottweiler of denial.

I'm looking forward to reading your stuff on other threads.

[Democracyinkind]

38. I tend to have sympathy with Ashuandé who has never killed anyone.

At least in the nineties, when they all could live off of the yachts of the rich europeans and saudis, one could discuss these things with people who actually know something about the causes.

The Pittsburgh cop killer is a murderer just like Kacynski was. Both should be punished, but if a have reasonable grounds to explain the crime in a way that I can relate to I tend to have sympathy. But I agree, it's hard to live on this side and hold up this view. I don't know how living abroad worked for you, but it doesn't seem to have brought you to live and get to know the Somalian fishermen. Their story is not that of professional hustlers gunning down sailors.

I just don't see how our dumping our nuclear waste and destroying their means of living is not important in this discussion.
Maybe all you wanna do is discuss the Somalian warlords, the professional pirates, who haven't been all that active lately - but then I got the thread all wrong.

[ddeclue]

41. I don't have sympathy for robbers, kidnappers and killers - Bonie and Clyde had their reasons too.

:argh:

[Democracyinkind]

55. yeah. but we didn't cause them in a causally relevant way.

Look, either we pay reparations or we pay by their terms. I know it really upsets you when they steal a new load of hotpants from china but you'll have to live with that as long as you don't want to adress the question in a "that's it" question.

You're repeating yourself and you're forcing me to do so too. Agree to disagree? or agree to read up on east africa? and on where all our nuclear waste has gone? turns out those russian ghost trusts weren't all that reliable... But you'll only start to care when I'll tell you that your political enemies profited from that deal.
I think, with a bit of good FOIA policy by the new administration, we could really look into that case.

[ddeclue]

58. Um NO we DON'T - you DON'T get to engage in extortion or piracy - there are LAWS.

Take it to the UN.

You are equivocating MURDER, KIDNAPPING and PIRACY.

Two wrongs do NOT make it right and the people they are kidnapping and murdering are NOT responsible for the wrongs you enumerate.

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

98. You mean like laws that prevent the western world from dumping nuclear waste into coastlines?

They have no governement because Business doesn't like a governement there. So they can't take it to the UN.
Anyone wanting to say "but they have" is surely someone who believes Karzai is president of Afghanistan. Now that's denial.

[ddeclue]

112. You really need to get caught up on current events...

There IS a stable gov't in Somalia now - you need to watch CurrenTV apparently.

and I refuse to accept your premise that piracy, murder, theft, and kidnapping are justifiable under any circumstance. You are engaging in moral equivocations.

:eyes:

[Democracyinkind]

135. stable gov. yeah. Like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Can't get enough of that now, can we.

[ddeclue]

138. Umm actually NO it's NOT US backed, if anything the US would want to topple it.

It is an Islamic gov't based on Sharia law called the ICU. I watched a documentary on it on CurrenTV the other day and there is actually peace in Mogadishu (sp??) these days for the first time in 15 years and people are happy with the gov't there.

[Democracyinkind]

141. Now I'm confused. I've assumed that you refer to the emigrated puppet gov by "gov",

I don't consider either to be a "gov"

[ddeclue]

144. As I said you need to catch up on current events..

we don't have a puppet gov't in Somalia.. quite the opposite.

We DO have puppet gov'ts in Iraq, and Afghanistan and we HAD a puppet gov't in Pakistan but it seems to not be so true any more.

[Democracyinkind]

150. So you are refering to the TFG by "gov"?

While I don't believe them to be the worst kind of lost, I don't exactly think they represent the people concerned here, at least not yet. I don't see them coming to terms with the Islamists too soon and until then I don't feel secure in making a definite judgement about their legality.

We should be careful to push the coastland into a secular direction, and it seems as if the TFG hasn't managed that. How should they. I'm not made up yet, so calling them puppet gov was extreme, although they are in the sense that they only exist because we have annointed them.

[fascisthunter]

156. No... it's Not Bullshit!

What you think you know and have heard from corporate media is in fact bullshit!

[Democracyinkind]

24. Thank you so much. I have made it a policy to know feel responsible to educate people here...

But the nuclear waste issue should really be linked and put out in the open - because even DUers seem to be in systemic denial about the state of the world and fall for the " look them criminals " meme.
Pirates my ass.

Of course there are criminal dimwits in Somalia. Of course there is organized crime.
But the tend confront tankers heads on with rusty fisher boats and AK47 filled with 3 rounds per gun....
it's like a 90% / 10% ratio of fishermen, if my girlfriends estimates - who is writing a paper on this - can be trusted. (I give her the benefit of the doubt)

[ddeclue]

28. Nonsense - nuclear waste and over fishing do not a pirate make.

These people are pirates and when they choose to cross that line I have NO sympathy for them.

And what does it really matter if they only have 3 bullets in their guns?

If I went into a Circle K and robbed it using a gun with only three bullets - is it NOT still a robbery?

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

32. It depends on wheter CIrcle K poisened your means of production and then set up shop on your grave

[ddeclue]

34. No it DOESN'T. You don't get to justify murder and piracy PERIOD END OF STORY. nt

[Democracyinkind]

44. End of your story for sure. That was obvious.

Nobody is justifying murder. As a rule, the fishermen gone pirate don't murder in cold blood. Never mind that, anyone who does deserves punishment.

The piracy issue is a larger one. The french left makes a convincing argument about how especially the nuclear waste issue has basically forced whole regions of the coast to survive on somethin' else. They feel like they are stealing back something that has been stolen from them. That's relevant, because we fucked them royally, and we didn't listen until now - you haven't even heard this stuff until today.

You'll never stop them with force. You'll just make them more desperate.
The gangsters, hustlers, warlords -.-- they fear force. They got something to lose.

So it's important on several levels.

[ddeclue]

47. TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT - PIRACY AND MURDER ARE WRONG

Stop making excuses. There ARE NO excuses.

[JackRiddler]

120. Perhaps you are excusing imperialism by focusing on the "pirates"

Most recently:

- The US prompted and backed the recent Ethiopian invasion of Somalia, which toppled the first stable government Somalis had seen in decades.

Which was the worse crime, that or "piracy"?

- Western companies dump toxic waste on the Somali shore.

Which is the worse crime, that or "piracy"?

Why aren't we focusing on the worse crime then? Hm?

The pirates aren't right to seize ships and hold people for ransom, but their existence is no surprise. Their country was fucked many ways by the West, which is far from apologetic but in fact acting as though it's legitimized to do anything it pleases.

If a future military action to stop a few hundred pirates kills a few thousand civilians, it will be a) par for the course and
b) without irony, probably held up by you as an example of holding people responsible for their actions, even though most of those who die will have had nothing to do with the pirates.

[ddeclue]

132. NO you are equivocating by saying one crime justifies another.

You can make all the excuses you want but it still comes down to THAT.

[JackRiddler]

172. On the contrary, I say it's wrong...

But you seem to be fine about worse crimes

- engineering an invasion that kills thousands?

- dumping toxic waste on the Somali beach because they can't defend themselves? (A form of piracy!)

Where are your condemnations of these crimes?

Excuse me if I think you're happy to show your "responsible" morality by being the most agitated about the crimes of those most distant from you -- even when they pale in comparison to the systemic crimes of your own country and reigning economic order.

Tell me, do the crimes of the pirates justify an invasion likely (as these things inevitably go) to kill thousands of civilian non-pirates? Which will be the worse crime? I don't need to to ask, the question is rhetorical - and yet your answer is already implicit.

[Democracyinkind]

139. Thank you for AGAIN STATING THAT WE DO NOT SUPPORT PIRATES,

... we're just interested where they came from.

Nice post.

[MindPilot]

13. I guess it is utopian...

but I always thought most of the function of the Navy, any Navy, is to protect the shipping lanes on the high seas. If a country has a coast, it probably has a Navy; why isn't there an international effort to stop this? Send a message that any attempt at piracy will be met with the Naval might of the rest of the world.

[ddeclue]

18. There is an effort but it is too little for such a large area.

My point is that if you station the defense on the ships themselves then that makes the most sense - the ships are after all the target, let the bad guys come to you, don't wait until they've already seized a ship and then try to take it back.

Doug D.

[Democracyinkind]

29. " the might of the world" is pretty much the cause of this mess. We don't

support criminals but we're not blind either. Differentiate the poor chaps from the hustlers.

[ddeclue]

33. Use a gun to rob someone or hijack and kidnap and you deserve no sympathy.

Your bleeding heart nonsense about sticking up for people who hijack boats and kill people for ransom money is disgusting.

Doug D.

[Democracyinkind]

46. Somali fishermen never kill for ransom, never ask for ransom.

If you'd read my post, you would by now have gotten the difference in their respective MOO.

Your not wanting to confront that YOUR nuclear waste is killing them is disgusting.
They should come throw it in your pool, see what you'll do about it.
Go to a Somali court, perhaps?

[ddeclue]

52. Umm NOT my nuclear waste and I don't live in unreasoning fear of nuclear waste

You are just making pity party excuses for murder, kidnapping and piracy.

I read your post but I am under NO obligation to so "oh well it's OK go ahead and rob and kill people...my mistake.." So many posters think that just because they post some excuse that the rest of us are obligated to accept it.

Sorry but there is NO excuse. PERIOD. END OF STORY.

TWO WRONGS DON'T MAKE A RIGHT.

[Democracyinkind]

80. Are you american? YOUR NUCLEAR WASTE. OUR NUCLEAR WASTE.

Two wrongs totally don't make a right. We never said anything else.
But nuclear waste kills africans.

Unreasoning fear of nuclear waste. I love you brother. I guess your backyard is gonna solve our storage problem then? How is dumping MIDEPLETED, UNTREATED, UNPROTECTED nuclear waste into some coastline not worrysome?
Ahh.. you're not serious. you just wanna piss me off.

[ddeclue]

84. Um to start with water is a GREAT neutron moderator.

You know absolutely NOTHING about physics.

Did you know that all American reactors are WATER moderated?

I'm not recommending dumping nuclear waste in the ocean but purely as a matter of PHYSICS, no one is being radiation poisoned by any radioactive waste dumped in the ocean unless they are diving in and taking whatever it is back out.

and I lived on or near the Georgia Tech campus for about a dozen years 1984-1996 with the Neely Nuclear research reactor right there on campus for many years so YES I've already had a nuclear reactor in my back yard.

:crazy:

Doug D.
Aerospace Engineer, Georgia Tech

:crazy:

[Democracyinkind]

113. We're not talking reactors, read the article.

[ddeclue]

116. I don't need to read an article to know that a few hundred feet of water

is going to stop any man made radiation source.

:crazy:

[nycusa15]

25. I agree

this is silly. Get rid of them

[Soylent Brice]

26. i've heard someone else here on DU m,ention Qships before, when all this mess started.

worth looking into, i suppose.

[Obamanaut]

39. Everone who wants to volunteer to be stationed aboard a cargo

ship as an armed Marine, step forward.

[Marr]

40. I think that's a great idea. And attach a tax to the shipping companies to pay for it.

Kind of like healthcare for ships. Might actually encourage more shipping to run out of the US.

[Democracyinkind]

48. NO! Billy really wanna fund the corps.! Momy loves it's proud nuclear sailors.

[Romulox]

49. Not. The. US. Taxpayers'. Problem. nt

[Renew Deal]

86. The boat that was hit today was carrying aid supplies paid for by US taxpayers.

Also, protecting our people is always a US taxpayer problem.

[Faryn Balyncd]

91. Are you talking about Wall Street or Big Insurance?

semper fi

[Smith_3]

110. From what I heard, arming cargo ships is prohibited by international treaties for a simple reason:

Otherwise countries would just start declaring their warships as cargo ships.

"Hey, that is not a destroyer cruising around your coast. It has boxes of bananas on it."

I think the whole problem is that in those areas where pirates are active, countries don't trust each other enough to have "merchant" ships sailing around armed to the teeth.

[ddeclue]

118. A good point!

Maybe why it's not possible...

I guess the alternative is armed escort ships in convoys.

[Bigleaf]

137. Or a great place for our SEAL pups to get some real-world training.

:evilgrin:

[ddeclue]

140. I'm almost certain that 99.9% of Navy Seals don't start out in the Seals right after boot camp

a lot of them are Marine sniper/recon guys or airborne infantry ranger guys or sometimes Green Berets, etc. I'm pretty sure most of them have already had "real world" experience.

[Bigleaf]

143. I agree. Most of them probably are already battle-tested. But they are not fully trained

in the SEAL way of doing things, especially in the marine area of boarding ships, oil rigs, etc in rough waters.

[ddeclue]

146. The Army guys less so, the Marines probably do have considerable training

in shipboard operations though.

[Democracyinkind]

145. There is acoustic and laser technology that is sufficient to deter 90% of the attacks -

the ones we are talking about, the amateur ones. But war is a racket and outfitting ships with these would cost shipping companies millions and it would require additional sailors to operate and even more to constantly hold a watch on a relative high alert.

It's cheaper for them to send the Navy. Or persuade Europeans. Or the other way around, whatever.

[walldude]

158. Oooh another "kill em' all" thread...

The best way to solve problems.


Maybe we ought to keep our ships out of their waters, stop dumping toxic waste and shit onto their shores.

Granted piracy isn't the way to solve problems either but please, don't act like all those ships were just innocently floating around and got hijacked. There are criminals and victims on both sides of this issue.

[fascisthunter]

166. Here's an Article from another Perspective that Relates to this Issue:

The Poor Fishermen of Somalia

"The outcry, addressed to the United Nations and the international community, was loud and bitter. "Help us solve the problem," said professional fisherman Muhammed Hussein from the coastal city of Marka, about 100 kilometers (62 miles) south of the Somali capital Mogadishu. "What is happening here is economic terrorism."

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,594457...

[SoCalDem]

170. Private companies making & shipping product on privately owned/foreign registered ships

"staffed" with US military..on the taxpayer's dime.. not likely to happen..

[cboy4]

174. I think our F-22 pilots need some target practice.

I bet the pirates take a long break.

[Statistical]

181. F-22? Pirates have an air force that needs to be taken out? n/t

[cboy4]

184. No they have no air force. But we have surface to air missiles

that can neutralize the pirates' mother ship(s).

Plus it would just be fun for the pilots to shoot at something other than Iraqis and the Taliban for a change.

[Democracyinkind]

185. Imperialist? I've heard of you guys on the news. Didn't know you're for real.

Someday we'll receive the bombs.
I'll love to hear yar jokes then.

[Retrograde]

175. Letters of Marque and Reprisal

Per Article I Section 8 of the US Constitution, Congress has the power "To declare war, grant letters of marque and reprisal, and make rules concerning captures on land and water".

Fight modern pirates with modern pirateers?

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

183. Yes, let's keep using our troops to protect corporate interests.......

:sarcasm: