Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Inside the AT&T–NSA “Secret” Relationship

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:25 AM
Original message
Inside the AT&T–NSA “Secret” Relationship
Inside the AT&T–NSA “Secret” Relationship
By Scott Horton - http://harpers.org/archive/2009/04/hbc-90004749


In its submission to a San Francisco district court, the Obama Justice Department states that any disclosures concerning the relationship between AT&T and the National Security Agency would “cause exceptional harm to national security.” Here’s an AT&T engineer explaining just what NSA wants to keep from American citizens: that the NSA is engaged in the warrantless surveillance of all communications (whether telephone conversations, emails, IMs or in other forms) involving AT&T customers.

VIDEO Marc Klein

AT&T and NSA entered into this agreement in flagrant violation of U.S. criminal law, with the assumption that the Bush Administration would not enforce the criminal law against itself or those who entered into criminal conspiracies ...............

The Jewel litigation should proceed so that the full extent of criminal wrongdoing can be charted ....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Which is why I will NEVER use AT&T, nor have an IPHone...
it would appear, unless Apple breaks their exclusive bond to this traitorous company.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:49 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. You can get an iPhone unlocked...
...if you know where to go. Then you can use that phone with any provider you choose, IIRC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Can other carriers access all the features?
Edited on Thu Apr-09-09 11:04 AM by hlthe2b
Is it "legal?" (i.e., does it void the warranty?)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I don't know
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. thanks!
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 10:49 AM
Response to Original message
2. Obama’s National Security State
Obama’s National Security State
By Scott Horton - http://harpers.org/archive/2009/04/hbc-90004714


Late on Friday, the Obama Justice Department filed an astonishing document with a San Francisco court. Seeking the dismissal of Jewel v. National Security Agency, a suit brought by persons who had been subjected to warrantless—and thus presumably unlawful—intercepts by the National Security Agency, the Justice Department advanced two arguments. First, it fully embraced the discredited Bush Administration view that by claiming “state secrets” it could simply terminate the lawsuit. This is a position that Senators Obama and Biden both criticized and members of their campaign insisted would never be asserted by an Obama Administration. That promise has now been repeatedly broken. Still more pernicious was a second argument. Directly contradicting the assurances of the legislation’s sponsors that suits against the government could proceed undisturbed, the Obama Justice Department argues that FISA amendments giving immunity to the telecom service providers accidentally granted “sovereign immunity” to the government, shielding it from suits by Americans in American courts.

The doctrine of sovereign immunity exists in two forms—one protecting foreign sovereigns from suits in our courts on the grounds that such suits could interfere with or undermine our relations with those foreign sovereigns. The other protects the government against its citizens, based on the ancient notion that the “king can do no wrong” and therefore cannot be challenged in the courts save with his permission. This is a perfectly fine legal principle—for an absolute monarchy or a totalitarian dictatorship. Democracies, however, have different rules. First among them is the idea that the government is accountable to its citizens. Another important principle is that no right is created without a vehicle for its enforcement. But in its submission on Friday, the Obama Justice Department repudiated these two fundamental principles, instead raising high the banner of tyrannical government.

Why? The reason advanced by the administration is the same on both fronts. The lawsuit, if it proceeded, would “cause exceptionally grave harm to national security,” they say (p. 12). The fact that the telecom service provider has a special relationship with the NSA “would also cause exceptional harm to national security” (p. 16). Vague and highly generalized claims of harm from disclosure of facts which are already a matter of public knowledge are always false. In this case, the Bush-era Terrorist Surveillance Program is already a matter of public knowledge in considerable detail, and the participation of AT&T, as well as other telecom service providers, in that program is already known. Indeed, employees of AT&T have already laid out all the details of the collaboration—right down to the exact address and exact room in which the NSA installed its “black box” that allows it to filter through Americans’ emails and phone conversations without detection, all in violation of criminal law. The claims made by the Justice Department in these filings are histrionic falsehoods.

So what are the real reasons? They fall into two categories. .....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. No way to spin this in any way to exonerate Obama. None.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-09-09 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
8. Video KO: Obama's DoJ & warrantless spying = Jewel v. NSA
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Thu Apr 18th 2024, 11:41 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC