Indian Country

[H2O Man]

{1} "What we have learned is that the perpetrator of a wrong never forgives his victim."
--John Ross, Cherokee; 1839

My daughter subscribes to a magazine for high school students, "American History." The newest edition has a feature article by Paul VanDevelder, an outstanding author and documentary filmmaker who lives in Oregon. In this article, he details the sad history between the United States and the Indian Nations, a topic that most people are at least somewhat familiar with. Perhaps it can be summed up by saying that every treaty made between the US and Indian Nations has been broken, and in every instance, they were broken by the United States.

Most people are also aware of the fact that the US government (and some state governments) took Indian lands in one of two ways: They began by restricting Indians to small sections of their original homelands, and then starting in the 1840s, removed the various Indian people, and herded them onto small sections of land known as "reservations.". Sections that were later wanted by non-Indians were then taken by way of the 1887 Dawes Act., in violation of the treaties, as "surplus." What they were left with was considered to be the least desired lands.

Today, that is changing. As VanDevelder notes, "At a time when the nation’s industrial machinery and extractive are running out of mineral resources, Indian lands hold 65 percent of the nation’s uranium, untold ounces of gold, silver, cadmium, platinum, and manganese, and billions of board feet of virgin timber. In the ground beneath that timber are billions of cubic feet of natural gas, millions of barrels of oil, and a treasure chest of copper and zinc. Perhaps even more critically, Indian lands contain 20 percent of the nation’s fresh water."

{2} "The American Indians have been oppressed and brutalized, deprived of their ancestral lands, and denied the opportunity to control their own destiny. Through it all, the story of the Indian is a record of endurance and survival, of adaption and creativity in the face of overwhelming obstacles."
--President Richard Nixon; July 8, 1970

In Haudenosaunee culture, it has long been understood that human beings are a mixture of "good" and "bad." When Neil Young sang the lyric, "Even Richard Nixon has got a soul," it came as no surprise to any traditional Iroquois. For not only had Nixon been the first US President to deliver a major speech advocating for the US to recognize and respect Indian rights, but he even began work on the American Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act. Of course, he left office before it passed in Congress in 1975.

Earlier today, I posted an OP about the year 1968. That was the year Nixon took office. There were, at that time, less than 500 Indians in college in this country. By 1978, there were more than 5000 enrolled in college. By no coincidence, many studied law.

Today, there are 562 Indian Nations recognized by the USA. And there are 371 treaties that are still a matter of federal law, according to Article VI, Clause 2 of the US Constitution.

As DUers know, there are some forces that have attempted to say the Constitution does not apply today, because we are in a national crisis. In the past 8 years, VP Dick Cheney worked hard to undermine the rights of Indian people. Cheney, assisted by Ron Christie, were at times successful, as noted in Barton Gellman’s book, "Angler." One reason they were able to violate the environmental laws (related to Indian rights) was because of the weak EPA director, Christine Todd Whitman. Cheney had held Whitman in contempt, since working together with her under Donald Rumsfeld in the Nixon administration.. He often went over her head, to Gale Norton, the interior secretary who had served as an aide in the Reagan administration to James Watt. (As interior secretary, Watt infamously stated that we might as well use up all of the earth’s natural resources, because Jesus was going to reappear in a generation or so.)

Just as there is conflict within an individual, between their good and bad sides, we are going to be moving into an accelerated conflict between those looking to develop a green, Earth-based philosophy, and those who want to suspend the Constitution and capitalize on all of the Earth’s resources.

{3} "The battle of the 21st century will be to save this planet."
--Bill Yellowtail, Crow.

Bill Yellowtail lives on the Crow Territory in Montana. Over the years, he has been employed as a college professor, a state legislator, and a regional administrator for the Environmental Protection Agency. He is, as VanDevelder notes, among the leaders of the pan-Indian effort to take cases where there are conflicts between Indians and non-Indian interests over Indian-owned properties and rights to the federal courts.

Hard as it is to believe, the Indians are not posing a threat to others. Even if Dick Cheney said they have yellow cake, or Ron Christie says they want to steal your house, it isn’t true. I remember a year or so ago, I noted that the Onondaga Land Claims case was not looking to evict a single person, but rather, was attempting to get the government to force industries to clean a series of Super Fund Sites, some people on DU were surprised.

Know who your allies are, and who isn’t your friend. There is a struggle going on. And together, we will win.

[liberalhistorian]

1. I'm a white chick living on a SD Indian reservation,

thanks so much for posting this. The Dakotas and many other western states are like the old South when it comes to their blatant overt racism, bigotry and discrimination against Indians, no matter who they are, with much of the local courts leading the way. It's truly disgusting.

[provis99]

9. yeah, I met a guy from North Dakota once back in Mississippi

A college student. Had the temerity to lecture me on how bad whites treated blacks in Mississippi (which I actually agreed with), but then after two more beers went into a rant about how rotten Indians in North Dakota were. Racism is universal, its just the color of the victim that changes, I guess.

[liberalhistorian]

10. What's interesting is that in the west, especially the Dakotas,

whites don't have much of a problem with blacks at all; Indians are who they so openly despise. In the south, it's the other way around. I have Indian friends here who've been to the south who say that many southerners had no problem with them at all but they'd turn around and hate on blacks every chance they get, even if the Indians were dark-skinned.

[hfojvt]

14. I never noticed that in my part of SD

For one thing, native americans were pretty scarce in my town. I can only think of 3 - Tom, Sam and Nancy. Sam's dad was a minister and gave at least one sermon in my Presbyterian church that I can recall. Sam graduated in my class after moving to town in the 8th grade or so. He was just another one of the jocks, a pretty popular guy as far as I knew. Nancy I only remember from the 9th grade. I am not sure what happened to her. Tom was about my age and a guy I remember from about the 3rd grade although we were not in the same grade school. He graduated class of 1981. A bit of a thug, but not, as far as I knew, treated any differently than any other kid. Not that I would necessarily know, but I did know of some kids in lower classes who were tormented by their peers and Tom was not one of them (he was probably too big for that anyway.)

I don't deny that what you say is true, is true near the reservations, but it is not universal to all of South Dakota. One of the starters on the Pierre basketball team was Native American and 6' 10". I cannot believe he was hated there (again, not that I would know). But he was runner-up for the State basketball award (true, he lost to 5' 10" white guy from my school, but my school did win the ESD conference, beating Pierre twice.)

[liberalhistorian]

32. I'm sorry, but I'm afraid you're a bit naive.

And frankly, being white, it's not going to be as noticeable for you. It also matters which part of South Dakota. Rapid City is one of the worst areas for Indians. Indeed, I'd never heard or seen such blatant overt racism and discrimination as in when I lived in that area and I'm white. Two of the poorest counties in the country are in South Dakota Indian Country and you should hear the derogatory comments about that among whites. Law enforcement and the court system also have a huge double standard when it comes to Indians. Driving while Indian is as much of an offense as Driving while black is in other areas.

[hfojvt]

46. I think I said it mattered which part of SD you were in

I was just saying it is not true of all of South Dakota. I also said I would not necessarily know, but as far as I knew Sam and Tom were treated like any other kid in school, and that tall guy from Pierre was just another basketball star AFAIK. It seemed to me that Sam was part of the in-crowd regardless of his dark skin and Native American blood. Nothing wrong with that, is there?

[H2O Man]

48. "regardless of his dark skin"

I'm confident that you are not saying these things intentionally, knowing how they sound. Or the type of thinking they expose.

It was wonderful when newspaper reporters called Heavyweight Champion Joe Louis "a credit to his race." Regardless of his dark skin. The fact that a great fighter, or a guy who is good at playing some ball, or a person who can sing and entertain is "accepted" -- regardless of their dark skin -- is not proof that things are okay. Quite the opposite.

[hfojvt]

59. I don't get that at all. Does language tell secrets.

I thought it was about two facts
1) Sam had/has dark skin
2) this did not matter to most of us

How is that not a good thing? Am I not supposed to comment on either fact? I thought it was a refutation of the idea that somebody like Sam faced a whole bunch of discrimination and racist attitudes. If that was true, then statement #2 would not be true, and wouldn't that be worse?

In fact, maybe statement #2 wasn't true. Maybe it's telling that Sam did not come to either the ten year or the twenty year class reunion, and also provided no information for the booklet. Even though he reportedly only lived seventy miles from my hometown.

I think that would be a bummer, if true, but I don't see how pointing out the opposite reveals anything except that I don't like to see my neighbors unjustly and inaccurately smeared.

[Hannah Bell]

73. You didn't say anything wrong. The ill intent is lodged in the eye of the beholder.

There are reasons we're encouraged to see racism in the slightest nuances of language.

Cui bono?

Not "Indians" as a group, nor "whites".

The ruling class & their high-paid servants like divide & conquer.

[babylonsister]

2. Thank you for educating us again, H20 Man.

I like Bill Yellowtail's quote, "The battle of the 21st century will be to save this planet."

I just hope enough of us realize this needs to be done.

[H2O Man]

37. It is happening.

And it will be accomplished.

[havocmom]

3. Got to meet a wise, older man today, who runs a small community campus

Campus is on a reservation in MT. Wished I could have bagged the meeting I was there for and spent the day just listening to him.

Thought of you, actually. Very happy to see this post. Synergy?

Thanks for the post. means much.

hm

PS there is a student who visits me. Not real sharp, not well accepted, but he is coming along in learning he is really just fine. And he wants the world to heal. Says he will help me with some younger kids and a green project. There is a mystic haze around him. It is good as he learns to be comfortable that he is different.

[H2O Man]

36. Synergy.

I like it. Thanks!

[bridgit]

4. ^rec

:kick:

[H2O Man]

26. Thanks. n/t

[bigtree]

5. Candidate Obama promised to 'honor the treaties'

It will be a fine day when all of that manifests itself in some sort of visible action from the Justice Dept., the Interior Dept., the Energy Dept., and the rest.

I haven't seen the White House position on tribal affairs offered during the campaign established yet, either. :hands folded in lap:

[havocmom]

6. The Crow People adopted him

I hope he understands the depth of honor.

[H2O Man]

24. It can be very difficult.

And I'm not "excusing" President Obama in advance, should he fail to recognize that depth of honor you mention. But I'll give an example of how the system can frustrate the most honorable of intentions.

In the late 1980s and early '90s, Chief Waterman and I were selected to work on some burial protection issues. When the Bush 1 administration passed the federal Native American Burial Protection and Repatriation Act, Paul and a couple other chiefs took one case to the Council of Chiefs (Onondaga has that responsibility, as decided by the Six Nations' Grand Council.) The situation that was decided would serve as a "test case" pitted local citizens and Onondaga against a powerful construction company (with political/financial power around the globe), backed by other related companies in the north-east.

I met Governor Cuomo a couple of times. He had served honorably as Lt. Governor previously, in regards to NYS-Indian relations. I met him first in a public setting, where a crowd of angry people were confronting him; I did something that resulted in his shaking my hand, and saying that he appreciated what he viewed as a brave stance in supporting him (but that's another story). Anyhow, I talked with him about the situation that Chief Waterman and I were working on, and he gave his word that he would wait for me to send him further documents, and that he would do what he could.

Long story short, Governor Cuomo did take some steps that helped us, for a couple of years. His doing so created friction between us, and a couple top people in agencies, who were not pleased that the Governor was listening to us. Some of the decent people, including one high-ranking bureaucrat who promised to help us, ended up feeling the political pressure from the other side, and betrayed their previously stated intentions. It came to a point where, at a time that Paul and I were meeting with officials either in Albany or at Onondaga, that one decent person told me that Cuomo wanted to help us more, but that he lacked the power within the system to do so.

We ended up in NYS Supreme Court. In the first day's hearing, the judge said that he was tempted to rule immediately in our favor. However, he said he was going to set a second date for a hearing. That date never came; without explanation, he ruled in the opposition's favor. NYS's high courts are, of course, among the most political in the country.

In a very real sense, our federal system is likewise geared in the opposition's favor. We face the three branches of government, and as we all know, the energy companies and the politicians and judges they own have no sense of honor. In the struggles that all of us face -- be we black, brown, red, yellow, or white; male or female; young or old; religious, spiritual, or athiest; straight or gay -- we need to be organized, especially in building a grass roots foundation, and prepared to engage in a coordinated effort to support each other in each of the smaller battles that define the larger war. I think that Obama, like Cuomo, is an honorable man, with good intentions. But we need to harness our own power, and work together with him.

[havocmom]

38. Thank you. Agree

no war is won save for on the ground. And I am not impatient with Obama. There is much to do and the damage has occurred in stages, over a very long period of time.

But in a way, I see our present battles as just a mote in the eternal battles. Could just be that I am getting old, though ;)

[H2O Man]

39. Yesw, exactly.

Sometimes, when my sons talk to me about "relationship issues," I ask them if they ever notice that they have the same "fight" with their girlfriends, over and over? And, of course, that's all too common. It's also a sign that their relationships have met a stumbling block. In the context of society, it does seem like we too often have the same conflicts, over and over. It's important in both cases to be able to be objective, and view the picture from outside of the frame. Doing so allows us to make progress, from time to time. It would be nice, though, if our society could get a divorce from the people like Cheney etc, and perhaps have them incarcerated.

[havocmom]

40. The fight with our own demons, through the ages, is spirit and in flesh

Cheney is the one man who makes me question my belief that there is no absolute evil. Otherwise, I accept the premise that we are of the universe and the universe is in all of us.

[liberalhistorian]

8. The most important thing for all tribes at this time is to

maintain tribal sovereignty in the face of all-out assaults and attacks by state governments, aided and abetted by the Justice Dept. Most tribes are not under state jurisdiction, but federal jurisdiction. Too many states, however, have been acting as if it's the other way around and have been steadily chipping away, or attempting to chip away, at tribal sovereignty, even when they have no grounds to do so. They've stopped federal recognition for many tribes (because it would mean a loss of tax revenue and control over the Indians and their land, especially for energy and corporate purposes), attempted to impose state laws when they know such laws don't apply, encroached on their land for energy and corporate purposes, etc., etc., etc. It's a never-ending battle for many tribes and Bush's justice dept. has been horrendously culpable against the tribes. It's yet to be seen whether Obama will keep his very important promises to do away with that and support tribes.

[H2O Man]

23. Exactly.

Thank you.

[H2O Man]

25. True.

It is indeed a situation where actions will speak louder than words. And lack of bold actions will be a silence that would speak loudest in favor of violating federal environmental laws and crushing treaties.

[stevedeshazer]

7. I fear the water wars to come

Resource extraction as a way of American expansion is so 19th century, yet just as relevant today.

[H2O Man]

22. Definitely.

It's going to be a serious conflict. Clean water will be the new gold.

[Me.]

11. Scum

Cheney, Christie, Norton & yes Whitman, she who told the workers at ground zero and all NYers that the air was safe. Little known, I was speaking to a doctor who deals primarily in sinuses and she says that after 9/11 the number of cases has been rampant with people who never had any problems before and who, while in the city, were not immediately near ground zero. She said it will be years before we know the extent of the health problems caused by that day.

Thank God the Indian nations respect and value the land. They are our first line of defense and protector of all in matters that are most important.

[H2O Man]

21. You scared me.

Wasn't sure at first who you were speaking of. (grin)

I know that a lot of DUers see Ron Christie as a cross between a poodle and a clown. But he is actually a dangerous, under-handed scum. Maybe LBJ was right, at least in some instances.

[Me.]

29. As If!

Yes you're right about the impression of Christie. He comes off as an unappealing self-loathing little twit, but harmless. Already this morning I've had a conversation about this info, applying appellations to him that go far beyond clown.

[Hannah Bell]

74. "the Indian nations respect and value the land"

heh.

[mix]

12. I live there.

But in the valley there is no longer a Native American community, they left in 1838 for Jemez, the only other place that spoke Towa. Only the Pueblo ruins are left. There are mestizos of course, but they identify with their Hispano heritage mostly.

The area is now called "Pecos," the name outsiders--native and foreign--gave it.

Its real native name is Cicuye.

[H2O Man]

20. Very nice.

Thank you for that.

[cilla4progress]

13. My great luck

I'm very fortunate as a white woman to work on Indian reservations, doing work to help preserve tribal members' control over inheritance of their lands. In my experience it is true that the Indian people have a special, respectful relationship with our mother, earth. I have been amazed, blown away by, and forever changed by my friendships in Indian country, by the teaching people have been so generous to share with me, and by having this opportunity to learn just a little bit about living in this country as an Indian person. We in the "mainstream" are truly taught very little if anything about great American heroes such as Sitting Bull, Joseph, Geronimo and others. The most patriotic people I have ever met are American Indian people.

[H2O Man]

19. Thanks,

for both that work, and for sharing your thoughts here. It is much appreciated.

[EFerrari]

15. The Ross quote explains US policy in Haiti and Cuba

and in fact, in Latin America.

[H2O Man]

18. Right.

I like it, because it can be applied to so many situations, including things from the international level, to the individual level.

[hfojvt]

16. at the risk of sounding like a South Dakotan

"Perhaps it can be summed up by saying that every treaty made between the US and Indian Nations has been broken, and in every instance, they were broken by the United States."

That is not true.

The Treaty of Mendota, for one, was broken by the Native Americans, according to this story

On Sunday, August 17, 1862 four young Dakota Sioux were out hunting. What happened next, according to Big Eagle, a Dakota chief (pictured at right), follows

"You know how the war started -- by the killing of some white people near Acton, in Meeker county. I will tell you how this was done, as it was told me by all of the four young men who did the killing. These young fellows all belonged to Shakopee's band. Their names were Sungigidan ("Brown Wing"), Ka-om-de-i-ye-ye-dan ("Breaking Up'), Nagi-we-cak-te ("Killing Ghost"), and Pa-zo-i-yo-pa ('Runs against Something when Crawling'). I do not think their names have ever before been printed. One of them is yet living. They told me they did not go out to kill white people. They said they went over to the Big Woods to hunt: that on Sunday, Aug. 17, they came to a settler's fence, and here they found a hen's nest with some eggs in it. One of them took the eggs, when another said: "Don't take them, for they belong to a white man and we may get into trouble." The other was angry, for he was very hungry and wanted to eat the eggs, and he dashed them to the ground and replied: "You are a coward. You are afraid of the white man. You are afraid to take even an egg from him, though you are half-starved. Yes, you are a coward, and I will tell everybody so." The other replied. "I am not a coward. I am not afraid of the white man, and to show you that I am not I will go to the house and shoot him. Are you brave enough to go with me?" The one who had called him a coward said: "Yes, I will go with you, and we will see who is the braver of us two." Their companions then said: "We will go with you, and we will be brave, too." They all went to the house of the white man (Mr. Robinson Jones), but he got alarmed and went to another house (that of his son-in-law, Howard Baker where were some other white men and women (Jones, Baker, a Mr. Webster, Mrs. Jones and a girl of fourteen).

The four went into the Baker house (shown in the sketch above), killed the occupants, took a wagon and team of horses, and went back to their village where they told what they had done. Big Eagle continued:

The tale told by the young men created the greatest excitement. Everybody was waked up and heard it. Shakopee took the young men to Little Crow's house (two miles above the agency), and he sat up in bed and listened to their story. He said war was now declared. Blood had been shed, the payment would be stopped, and the whites would take a dreadful vengeance because women had been killed. Wabasha, Wacouta, myself and others still talked for peace, but nobody would listen to us, and soon the cry was "Kill the whites and kill all these cut-hairs who will not join us." A council was held and war was declared. Parties formed and dashed away in the darkness to kill settlers. The women began to run bullets and the men to clean their guns."

This was followed by a war in which 300-800 settlers were killed, the town of New Ulm was raided and burned and finally 39 Native Americans were hanged.

[H2O Man]

17. Yes, I am aware of that.

However, that is not an example of one nation breaking a treaty as a matter of policy. It is a matter of some people violating the agreement. I the same way, when gold prospectors went into the Black Hills, they were individuals violating a treaty; when the USA "changed" the Fort Laramie Treaty in an underhanded, illegal manner (as the USSC has ruled), that is breaking a treaty.

My point isn't that Indian people are superior, and incapable of individual or group actions that are wrong, or bad. What I am saying is that there are two things -- laws and attitudes -- that need to be recognized as offering all people on this land, the black, brown, red, yellow, and white tribes, distinct paths on which to approach the future.

[a la izquierda]

27. I'm curious where you got this from.

I'm really interested in the source, as I know very well what happened there. My aunt is Dakota. My best friend wrote her MA thesis on the captivity narratives from this war (that's why I'd like to know where this came from).

You can't use one instance, if you don't understand the history. This particular situation, for Native peoples, kicked off a very quick sequence of events that resulted in the massive territorial expansion by the US. One "treaty" doesn't matter, it's the sum of all broken treaties by the US.

[hfojvt]

44. is the source bad? Because it does not seem to be a pro-white source

http://www.assumption.edu/users/mcClymer/his260/defaultSioux.html

Bishop Whipple wrote this

"It hardly needed any act of wrong to incite savage natures to murderous cruelty. But such instances were not wanting. Four years ago the Sioux sold the Government part of their reservation, the plea for the sale being the need of funds to aid them in civilization. . . . Of ninety-six thousand dollars due to the Lower Sioux not one cent has ever been received. All has been absorbed in claims except eight hundred and eighty dollars and fifty-eight cents, which is to their credit on the books at Washington. Of the portion belonging to the other Sioux, eighty-eight thousand, three hundred and fifty one dollars and twelve cents were also taken for claims. . . . For two years the Indians had demanded to know what had become of their money, and had again and again threatened revenge unless they were satisfied. Early last spring the traders informed the Indians that the next payment would be only half the usual amount, because the Indian debts had been paid at Washington. They were in some instances refused credit on this account.

It caused deep and widespread discontent. The agent was alarmed, and as early as May he wrote me that this new fraud must bring a harvest of woe, saying "God only knows what will be the result." In June, at the time fixed by custom, they came together for the payment. The agent could give no satisfactory reason for the delay. There was none to give. The Indians waited at the Agencies for two months, dissatisfied, turbulent, hungry, and then came the outbreak. . . . The money reached Fort Ripley the day after the outbreak. A part of the annuity had been taken for claims and at the eleventh hour, as the warrant on the treasury shows, as made up from other funds to save an Indian war. It was too late! "

Their summary is this:

"In most cases, the wars would break out as the first did. Sioux, aggrieved over treaties which took away their hunting lands, cheated by traders and agents for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, would attack individual whites. This would force the remaining Sioux to decide, as Little Crow had to, whether or not to join in the conflict. They knew, as Little Crow did, that whites would demand revenge. Sometimes the element of surprise permitted an initial victory, but ultimately the superior military power of the United States would prevail."

How much of it was "cheating by traders" and how much was it individual Native Americans running up credit tabs because there is no connection between work and spending. Kinda the way modern Americans run up credit card debt and then complain they have been cheated by the credit card companies. Another part being that the trading system was depleting the wildlife, and at some point the income dried up because resources were used up.

This particular treaty does matter to Robinson Jones, his daughter, and his son-in-law Howard Baker who were not killing anybody, just trying to scratch out a living for their families on land that they had purchased or were renting.

[a la izquierda]

71. I wasn't questioning it's veracity

:-)
I was simply curious as to where you found it (as I want to see if my friend had read it).
As you probably know, historical memory and sources are products of the creators. There is bias on all sides, and one simply has to walk a middle ground to figure out what is true, what is embellish and what sources simply are products of old memories.

So, I wasn't trying to pick on you, I was just curious. I'm a historian after all, and this stuff interests me.

[liberalhistorian]

33. Oh, please. A couple examples like that as opposed

to hundreds the other way, including some major massacres of Indians, including women and children, guilty of nothing more than being Indian and in the way. You're right, you do, indeed, sound like a South Dakotan.

And never forget WE were on THEIR land pushing THEM out by raids, starvation, imprisonment, banishment to reservations, forced acculturation and removal of their children, etc., etc.

[H2O Man]

34. Right. If three Indian teens

are caught speeding on non-Indian land, they have violated the law, but not changed the law. That is distinct from the relationship between the USA and Indian nations, where the US claims the authority to "change" treaties, without consequence to those engaged in violating the law. It is stunning that anyone would experience difficulty in understanding the huge differences.

[hfojvt]

41. a couple of examples are enough to refute the claim

The claim said "and in every instance". How many more examples are there?

Yes, We took their land by force, and then, at least in the treaty of Mendota and the earlier Traverse des Sioux, we paid for it. That does not sound totally depraved.

Can you give me some examples of major massacres? I may be fighting against a "white people suck" meme but I am not trying to do so by "closing (my) eyes to a situation (I) do not wish to acknowledge".

Change "every" to "almost every" and we may have no argument here.

[EFerrari]

47. If you've never read Bury My Heart at Wounded Knee, you should.

The writing is beautiful, haunting, and the stories are very powerfully told.

[liberalhistorian]

49. You're kidding, right? You have no trouble digging up a version

of a 170-year-old incident that may not have even happened that way (and I doubt it), but expect others to research the, unfortunately, numerous examples of our own murderous actions against tribes?

Sand Creek, Wyoming, for one, when Custer (yes, THAT Custer, if ever a man "needed killin'", it was him; when his karma of all the Indians he'd massacred in previous years finally bit him in the ass) and Colonel Chivington, a former Methodist preacher who said, in response to qualms about attacking an Indian encampment, "damn any man who sympathizes with Indians. I believe it is right and propr under God's good heaven to kill Indians", led a raiding army at dawn into Black Kettle's Cheyenne camp and massacred any and all Indians they could find, including, and especially, women and children. Soldiers even made saddle "decorations" from stretched private parts of women they murdered. Black Kettle had previously cooperated with the army and the federal government and had been given an American flag and told to wave it at the first sign of American soldiers so that they'd know not to attack him and his people. He did just that, standing in front of his tipi as the soldiers swarmed down, waving the flag. Fat fuck of a lot of good it did him as he watched his people being cut down in front of his eyes, including his own family. Soldiers chased women and children and cut them down and then "celebrated" afterwards.

Just like they would do not quite twenty years later at Wounded Knee on the Pine Ridge reservation in Dec., 1890; most of their victims were unarmed Indians, the majority women and children, whom they chased over a three-mile radius, shooting many in the back. It was not a "battle" as the army and federal government has insisted ever afterwards, it was a massacre, plain and simple, as most historians now agree. Soldiers celebrated with whiskey around their campfire that night and actually received Congressional Medals of Honor for their murderous unwarranted actions, medals that have never been rescinded to this day even though they should never have been awarded in the first place. There have been numerous attempts throughout the years to have them rescinded and I am proud to be a part of the current attempt to do so. The medals are on display at the Wounded Knee Museum in Wall, SD, a heartbreaking museum that is almost unbearable at times to go through.

There are many, many other examples, these are just two of the main ones.

[Thothmes]

64. Some points

Sand creek was in the Colorado territory, not the Wyoming territory. On November 29, 1964, General George Custer was part of General Philip Sheridans Cavalry Corp operating with the Army of the Potomac in the area of Peterburg Va against the Army of Northern Virginia. Custer did participate in the massacre of Cheyennes under Black Kettle (same as Sand Creek) along the Washita River in Oklahoma in Nov 1868. Wounded Knee was 26 years after Sand Creek.

[hfojvt]

66. picky, picky, picky

So Black Kettle survived at Sand Creek? That was confusing, the combination of Sand Creek and Washita. My question would be, what about the other side of the story?

This:
"After this event, many Cheyenne, including the great warrior Roman Nose, and Arapaho men joined the Dog Soldiers and sought revenge on settlers throughout the Platte valley, killing as many as 20,000 civilians." Wiki

So 400 massacred at Sand Creek makes the white people evil with a capital VIL, but 20,000 white civilians murdered is down the memory hole.

But I am an a$$hole for thinking that 20,000 deaths might be just as bad as 400 deaths, and also for being somewhat sympathetic to people charged with preventing white settlers from being killed, when they just want to see the problem go away.

[liberalhistorian]

68. You are really unbelievable, ya know?

First of all, I don't know where you get some of your information. Second, the Indians had reason to be on the warpath-THEY were being attacked and slaughtered, their way of life was being destroyed before their eyes, they were being forced to leave their homelands and live on reservations in conditions foreign to them, they weren't permitted to speak their language and their children were taken from them to be "civilized", etc., etc., etc., etc. We had no business pushing into their lands and driving them away, killing many in the process. Many times over we deceived them about our true intentions, over and over and over and over. We starved them (deliberate destruction of the buffalo, for one), took away what they loved, etc., etc. And you want to go tit for tat for lives taken? How about the deliberate infecting of tribes with smallpox, which wiped out entire villages? How about the introduction of many other diseases, which wiped out thousands more? How about the deliberate starving and deprivation, the deliberate withholding of promised provisions from Indian agencies and then the refusal to allow them to go out and hunt so they could at least feed themselves instead of watching their families tribesmen starve? How about the policies that the government itself admitted were for the purpose of destroying and wiping out all Indians, policies that have continued in some form or another well into this century?

And that's only scratching the surface. Ever hear of something called the Trail of Tears, where thousands of Indians died of disease, exposure and starvation throughout the forced journey of hundreds of miles, a journey that began with President Jackson refusing to uphold the Supreme Court's rulings that the Cherokees had rightful title to their lands and were not to be removed, despite the wishes of settlers who were demanding the land and killing Cherokees in order to get it? I suppose none of those lives mattered as long as the white settlers got their land, huh?

The settlers shouldn't have needed protection because they shouldn't have been there in the first place. You mean to tell me that if a foreign army came into this country where they didn't belong and attacked you and everything you knew and demanded that those who were left then be relegated to a tiny portion of land where they weren't permitted to leave even if they were starving, that YOU and yours wouldn't fight back with everything you had? Quit reading the history books written by the victors and get some REAL history.

For Christ's sake, this shouldn't have to be pointed out on DU of all places, Jesus Christ.

[liberalhistorian]

69. Yes, you're right about Sand Creek being in CO not WY,

I knew that but had a brain fart. But I do think you mean 1864 and not 1964, lol. I was getting Sand Creek and Washita mixed up even though I knew better, but largely due to Black Kettle's presence in both. Chivington played a major role at Sand Creek, but not Washita, although his stated goal was to kill every Indian alive, believing that they were of the devil and that it was "God's handiwork" that he do so. Custer did play a major role, though, in Washita, along with other actions against Indians.

I've been to Wounded Knee several times; the memorial, the monument erected over the mass grave of those murdered, with many of their names, remains very powerfully moving.

[mikekohr]

52. Here Are A Few Examples -with sources-

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#Captain%20John%20Smith
In 1623 the Jamestown colonists achieved the dubious distinction of being the first people to use chemical warfare on the North American continent. The colonists invited a leader named Chiskiak, his family and over two-hundred members of his band for a feast and treaty talks. Offering a toast of eternal friendship the colonists fed their guests poisoned food and drink. As these empty promises of peace and friendship echoed across the clearing Chiskiak, his family and his two-hundred followers, keeled over dead. 1) 73)

The Jamestown colonists were not the last European settlers that used poison to eliminate their Native neighbors. It became a common trick for armies and militias to leave in the field, poisoned food, in hopes that Native People would find it.



http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#The%20Pilgrims
In 1636, eager to appropriate land belonging to the Pequot people, an alliance was formed with the Narragansett People. Surrounding a Peqout village on the site of present day Mystic, Connecticut, this force promptly set fire to the village and put to the sword all those that attempted escape. In an hours time seven were taken captive, seven escaped and between 600 to 700 lay dead. 31). 77).

William Bradford described the slaughter in these words, "It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stink and stench thereof; but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice and they gave praise thereof to God." 1)

The Narragansetts were mortified at the slaughter and pleaded in vain to Captain John Underhill, "It is naught, it is naught, because it is too furious and slays too many men." 1) The humanitarian concerns of the Narragansetts were rebuked. And in their witnessing the slaughter of the Pequot, the Narragansetts saw a portent and vision of what would befall their people in a few short years at the hands of the rapidly expanding colonies.

Underhill would later justify the killing of women and children by quoting the Holy Bible, "Sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents." 31)

It was not enough to merely slaughter the Pequot people . Hoping to wipe their memory from history, laws were passed making it a crime to even utter the word Pequot. These efforts to shape history have only been partially successful. There are those that remember and are aware.

On December 19th 1675, six days before the celebration of Christmas, an armed force was lead into battle against the once friendly Wampanoag people, at the place that was to become known as, "The Great Swamp Massacre."

The Wampanoags, .were no longer willing to yield land to the rapidly growing colonies. This transgression would be dealt with forcefully. In the early morning hours this army attacked a sleeping village of mostly women, children, and old people. Setting fire to the village homes, and burning the Wampanoag people to death. Over 2000 Wampanoag People were slaughtered at this place.

One Christian soldier, sickened by the stench of burning flesh and horrified by the screams of the dying,, asked of his commander, "Is burning alive, men, women, and children, consistent with the benevolent principles of the Gospel?" 12).


In 1636, eager to appropriate land belonging to the Pequot people, an alliance was formed with the Narragansett People. Surrounding a Peqout village on the site of present day Mystic, Connecticut, this force promptly set fire to the village and put to the sword all those that attempted escape. In an hours time seven were taken captive, seven escaped and between 600 to 700 lay dead. 31). 77).

William Bradford described the slaughter in these words, "It was a fearful sight to see them thus frying in the fire, and the streams of blood quenching the same, and horrible was the stink and stench thereof; but the victory seemed a sweet sacrifice and they gave praise thereof to God." 1)

The Narragansetts were mortified at the slaughter and pleaded in vain to Captain John Underhill, "It is naught, it is naught, because it is too furious and slays too many men." 1) The humanitarian concerns of the Narragansetts were rebuked. And in their witnessing the slaughter of the Pequot, the Narragansetts saw a portent and vision of what would befall their people in a few short years at the hands of the rapidly expanding colonies.

Underhill would later justify the killing of women and children by quoting the Holy Bible, "Sometimes the Scripture declareth women and children must perish with their parents." 31)

It was not enough to merely slaughter the Pequot people . Hoping to wipe their memory from history, laws were passed making it a crime to even utter the word Pequot. These efforts to shape history have only been partially successful. There are those that remember and are aware.

On December 19th 1675, six days before the celebration of Christmas, an armed force was lead into battle against the once friendly Wampanoag people, at the place that was to become known as, "The Great Swamp Massacre."

The Wampanoags, .were no longer willing to yield land to the rapidly growing colonies. This transgression would be dealt with forcefully. In the early morning hours this army attacked a sleeping village of mostly women, children, and old people. Setting fire to the village homes, and burning the Wampanoag people to death. Over 2000 Wampanoag People were slaughtered at this place.

One Christian soldier, sickened by the stench of burning flesh and horrified by the screams of the dying,, asked of his commander, "Is burning alive, men, women, and children, consistent with the benevolent principles of the Gospel?" 12).

[mikekohr]

54. Here Are A Few More:

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#THE%20MILITIA%20MEN
THE MILITIA MEN: Remembered as common men, as hallowed heroes that rose up to overthrow the oppression of English rule, they have other legacies as well.
On March 7, 1782, a group of Pennsylvania Militia Men under the command of Captain David Williamson, surrounded a village of Delaware Indians near today's town of Gnadenhutten, Ohio. The Delaware had converted to the United Brethren Church, (Moravian), a pacifist Christian faith. Staying true to their new-found faith, the Delaware had refused to take sides in the Revolutionary War, an action that made them friends on neither side of the struggle.
The Militia Men bound the captives, separated the women and children from the men, and placed the groups in two buildings of the village. That night the Militia Men took a vote that determined the fate of the Delaware. Learning of their doom, the Delaware spent the night singing hymns and saying prayers. The next morning, March 8th, 1782, the Militia Men led the Delaware in pairs to a small cabin where they forced their bound captives to their knees, and crushed their skulls with a mallet. Two young boys, playing dead, were scalped but survived. They alone lived to tell the story of the slaughter of their families.


The White Moravian brethren of the slaughtered Delaware, erected a 37 foot marble shaft that is inscribed, "Here triumphed in death ninety Christian Indians. March 8, 1782."
For the 28 men, 29 women, and 39 children, butchered at the hands of the Militia Men, this shaft silently bears witness to a forgotten moment in our struggle for independence from English tyranny. 56). 60).
http://www.ohiohistorycentral.org/entry.php?rec=499
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GEORGE%20WASHINGTON
During the Revolutionary War, General Washington, sent General John Sullivan and 5000 men against the fiercely neutral Onondaga People in August of 1779. Washington instructed Sullivan that no talks of peace were to be considered until all villages, homes, fields, food-stores, cattle herds and orchards of the Onondaga were destroyed. Sullivan completed Washington's orders just as winter set in. Hundreds of Onodaga People starved to death and died of exposure in the deep winter snows. 12). 71).
During Washington's darkest hour at Valley Forge, when his troops faced starvation and death by exposure, the Onieda People carried over 600 bushels of corn and many blankets to Washington's desperate troops. After the war was over, the generosity of the Onieda was re-paid by the confiscation of their lands. The Onieda were scattered like leaves before a winter wind. Some remained on a small parcel of land in New York, others migrated to Wisconsin, and the remainder found refuge in Canada. 12).

[mikekohr]

55. Some More:

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#ANDREW%20JACKSON
ANDREW JACKSON: As a general, he lead an army against the Creek people. Defeating the Creek at the Battle of Horseshoe Bend, he ordered his soldiers to cut off the noses of the 557, killed Creek warriors to make easier the tallying of the dead. After removal of the noses of the Creek warriors, Jackson's troops skinned the bodies of the dead. The skins were tanned and made into trinkets, and souvenirs such as bridle reins. 6).
Defying the Supreme Court, as President, he forced the removal of the Choctaw and Cherokee Nations to Oklahoma on the Trail of Tears. Nearly one in four, or over 4000 Cherokee perished on this death march. 31). 1). 12). 11).

The Choctaw fared better. Only one in seven perished, or approximately 2500 men, women and children. To add insult to injury the Choctaw were forced to pay the cost of, $5,097,367.50 for their own removal. Their land in Mississippi was sold for $8,095,614.89. The balance, $2,998,000.00, was kept by the US government. 71).

Jackson felt that conditions of the Cherokee removal, the "Trail of Tears," was so desirable that he noted, "How many thousands of our own people would gladly embrace the opportunity of removing to the West on such conditions?" 64). Let the record show that no U.S. citizen took Jackson up on his offer.




http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GOVERNOR%20LEELAND%20STANFORD
California was once the most densely populated Native population center in North America. During the administration of Governor Stanton rag-tag militias ranged across the countryside of California killing Native People to facilitate White settlers in the appropriation Indian lands. 77).

Between the years 1850 and 1863 it is recorded that an estimated 10,000 California Indians were sold into slavery or forced into indentured service. Many of these slaves and servants were Native children that had been taken from their parents.

It has been estimated that the Native population of California was once in excess of 700,000 people. By 1840 this Native populace had plummeted to under 200,000 and by 1870, after twenty years of American rule, their number had dwindled to 31,000. A decline of nearly 8500 people per year.

It has been argued by many historians that in California existed perhaps the most pervasive and murderous record of genocide in American history. One California settler would write that parties of Anglo men would go out two or three times a week and kill an average of 50 or 60 Indians on each trip. 31). One survivor of the Humboldt Villages from Needle Rock wrote later, "About 10 o'clock in the morning some white men came. They killed my grandfather, and my mother and my father. I saw them do it. I was a big girl at the time. They killed my baby sister and cut her heart out and threw it in the brush where I ran and hid.... I didn't know what to do. I was so scared that I guess I ran and hid there a long time with my little sisters heart in my hands," 77).

"Good Haul of Diggers," one California newspaper rejoiced in a bold face headline after a local band of weekend soldiers exterminated a band of Native People. The United States federal government reimbursed California over $1,5000,000 for its efforts to rid the state of it's population of Native People.

[mikekohr]

56. More:

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#COLONEL%20JOHN%20MILTON%20CHIVINGTON
COLONEL JOHN MILTON CHIVINGTON (The Bloody Preacher):
"Damn any man who sympathizes with Indians! I have come to kill Indians, and believe it is right and honorable to use any means under God's heaven to kill Indians!" -The Reverend John M. Chivington-

Chivington's, 3rd Regiment of Colorado Volunteers, was commissioned for 100 days and by late October of 1864 had exceeded their "commission," without engaging any "hostile" Indians. The territorial newspapers had openly mocked Chivington and his volunteers by calling them, "The Bloodless Third." Chivington's inability to locate any Indians was resolved as he watched Black Kettle and White Antelope ride back to their village after their peace parley with Gov. Evans in Denver. Black Kettle had left specific directions to the location of his people, who were camped nearby Fort Lyon. The fort's commander, Major Scott Anthony had invited Black Kettle and his people to camp nearby the fort so that they would not be mistaken for "hostiles."
On November 29, 1864, Colonel Chivington, and 750 men of the Colorado 3rd Regiment surrounded Black Kettle's village on the banks of Sand Creek, and marched upon it. "Take no prisoners," ordered Colonel Chivington. Some of Chivington's junior officers made note of the large U.S. flag that flew over the lodge of Black Kettle and reminded Chivington of the promise made to Black Kettle by the United States that the flag would protect Black Kettle and his people from being mistaken for hostile bands. Chivington replied, " Scalps are what we are after....I long to be wading in gore!" 37). 64).

As the soldiers advanced upon the village, Black Kettle and his wife took up a large white flag and walked toward the advancing volunteers crying out for peace. Black Kettle was shot, his wife suffered nine bullet wounds. Thinking her dead, Black Kettle left her in the bloody sand. She would survive the massacre as would Black Kettle.
White Antelope, aged 75 years, at first raised his arms and shouted in English, "Stop! Stop!" When he realized the futility of his pleas he stood unarmed in front of his lodge, crossed his arms and sang his death song, "Nothing lives long, Only the Earth and the mountains...." 77). The volunteers shot him dead. A soldier dismounted and scalped White Antelope. The soldier cut off White Antelope's nose, ears, and genitalia, and vowed to make a tobacco pouch out of the scrotum. 37).
The shooting continued for over eight hours. One-hundred-thirty-three Cheyenne People were butchered , 98 of the slaughtered were women and children. The volunteers mutilated the bodies of the murdered Cheyenne people. Heads were hacked off, fingers severed, scalps were skinned from skulls, private parts of men and women were cut away and placed in obscene manner. Soldiers cut off the breasts of women and mounted them on sticks. Accounts tell that a pregnant woman had been sliced open and the fetus she carried was ripped from her womb. Some of Colorado's finest stretched the private parts of butchered Cheyenne women over their saddle horns and around the brims of their hats. Lieutenant James Connor testified later that he did not find a single body that had not been mutilated. The 3rd Regiment paraded triumphantly through the streets of Denver, proudly displaying their gruesome booty. Many of the body parts, along with a rope of over 100 Cheyenne scalps were put on display at the Denver Opera House so that all could witness Colonel Chivington's triumph over the "savages." After the display ended, the skulls and bones were carefully de-fleshed and sent to the Army Medical Museum in Washington, DC.. 64).
The territorial newspapers proudly reported the great victory and renamed the 3rd Regiment as the "Bloody Third." The "Miner's Register" used the reporting of Chivington's work at Sand Creek to advise settlers on how to leave strychnine poisoned food near Indian trails so that Native People could be exterminated in the manner Minnesota settlers had poisoned over 100 Indian people a few years before. The article stated the efficiency and lower cost of poison as compared to gunpowder and lead. 37).
"The Rocky Mountain News" recorded on December 22nd, "Cheyenne scalps are getting as thick here as toads in Egypt. Everyone has got one, and is anxious to get another to send East." 37).
The news was less well received back East however. After an outcry from Eastern society over the slaughter and mutilation of women and children (those back East were nearly 100 years removed from their own murderous history) an unrepentant Colonel Chivington defended the slaughter of children by declaring "Nits make lice."
Chivington was brought up on military charges in the spring of 1865 for his heinous crimes at Sand Creek. But because he and the "Bloody Third," had only been commissioned for 100 days, and the butchery at Sand Creek occurred after the commission had expired. The military decided it had no jurisdiction in the matter. Chivington's powerful political allies prevented him or any other soldier or officer of the "Third," from facing charges.
In 1866 Chivington's son drowned . After his wife died in August of 1867 Chivington married the widow of his son. The marriage lasted less than two weeks. His new wife fled to escape his brutality and abuse.
In 1883 Chivington was appointed Under Sheriff of Denver and was later elected County Coroner
To his death in 1894 at the age of 73, Reverend Chivington was adamant that he had carried out "God's work." Shortly before his death he gave a speech in which he proudly boasted, "I still stand by Sand Creek."
The legacy of Reverend Chivington lives yet today. During the 1980's, a Colorado state legislator would proudly show his colleagues a "tobacco pouch" that was made from the scrotum of one of the Cheyenne men that had been butchered at Sand Creek. The legislator used the "pouch" as a candy bag. After his death the family retained possession of the "family heirloom," and kept alive generations of family tradition.
In memory of Colonel Chivington, and to honor his service to the citizens of Colorado and the advancement of civilization, grateful pioneers would name a town after him. A nearby Methodist church carries his name to this very day.
Sand Creek remains all but forgotten, part of a private ranch. Cattle graze today over the sandy ground that once ran red with blood. Only the prayer flags and tobacco ties that hang on a barb wire fence, placed there by descendants of the victims, serve as notice that this spot is hallowed ground.

[mikekohr]

57. Dammit! I Found Another Example!

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GEORGE%20ARMSTRONG%20CUSTER:
Ten months later General Phil Sheridan reinstated Custer to command a campaign against the Southern Cheyenne in Oklahoma. Desperate for action that would redeem his honor, Custer came upon a peaceful camp of Southern Cheyenne camped along the Washita River, on November 28th, 1868.

This encampment was nearby an U.S. army outpost and under the leadership of the "Peace Chief, Black Kettle." The lodge of Black Kettle flew a large U.S. flag identifying the camp as a "friendly village." Black Kettle was given this flag by the United States government and told that as long as it flew over his lodge he and his people would be under the protection of the United States Army.

Custer's scouts identified this small camp circle as a friendly village and warned the general not to attack. Custer ignored his scouts and ordered any man shot that attempted to prevent his plans for attack the next morning. As Custer planned the attack on the village he did not conduct reconnaissance of the village and surrounding area .

The next morning, November 29th 1868, marching to his favorite tune "Gary Owen," Custer and his soldiers attacked the village. The 67 year old Black Kettle and his wife Medicine Women Later, walked toward the attacking cavalry, carrying a white flag and calling out for peace. Black Kettle and Medicine Woman Later were shot down and killed. Their bodies and the white flag were trampled under the hooves of the horses and into the bloody mud, as the Calvary advanced on the village.

Black Kettle, always a voice for peace and accommodation with the Whites, was to be betrayed in his trust a second time. First at the Massacre of Sand Creek when his people were butchered by the Methodist preacher John Chivington and a second and final time along the banks of the river known as the Washita. One-hundred and three Cheyenne people, died there along with Black Kettle and his wife. Ninety-two of the dead were women, children, and old people unable to flee the advance of Custer and his troops.

[mikekohr]

58. Son-Of-A-Bitch, here's another one! WTF is wrong with you blood-thirsty white bastards?

On December 29th, 1890, a band of Lakota people led by
Spotted Elk ( Chief Bigfoot) was encircled by the Seventh
Calvary, at the place called Cankpe Opi Wakpala, the creek
called Wounded Knee. In the early morning hours the men
were assembled in a semi-circle formation in front of the tipis
and disarmed.
A holy man fearing for the lives of his people stood up and beseeched the
creator and asked for protection for the lives of the people.
A shot rang out and the soldiers fired en masse into the sitting
Lakota men, killing most of them instantly. The horror was only
beginning.
The women and children ran as the soldiers chased them
down and killed them one by one. The slaughter continued
for over three hours. Some of the dead were found over three miles
from the campsite.
In vol.3, issue 1, "The Lakota Journal" listed the names of the Lakota
victims of the massacre at Wounded Knee. Four-hundred and five were
listed as killed. Of this number, 69 were identified as infants or young children,
133 were identified as women, the remaining 203 were identified as
men or had no gender or age identification. Of the total dead, 39 were
identified as elders.
The bodies were left to freeze onto the prairie. Over the next three
days survivors and relatives recovered nearly half of the dead. On
the third day a government burial detail arrived to bury the remaining
victims. The bodies were stripped of valuables and dropped into a
mass grave.
A 40 year old, ironically named Last Man, lay gutshot, frozen
to the ground until he was discovered on the 5th of January, 8 days
after the slaughter of December 29th. Last Man died at 8am on
January 6th, 1891.
The United States government awarded 23 Medals of Honor to
members of the Seventh Calvary for their service to the nation at this
place, the creek called Wounded Knee. 45).
Chief Bigfoot's body was scalped and the grisly trophy was sent to
the Seventh Cavalry's museum in Massachusetts. There it remained
over the protests of Chief Bigfoot's family until the summer of 2000.
The last remains of Chief Bigfoot were returned to the place of his
birth, 109 years after his murder.


"I did not know then how much had ended. When I look back
from this high hill of my old age I can still see the butchered
women and children lying heaped and scattered all along the
crooked gulch as plain as when I saw them with eyes still young.
And I can see that something else died there in the bloody mud
and was buried in the blizzard. A peoples dream died there. It
was a beautiful dream....the nation's hoop is broken and scattered.
There is no center any longer and the sacred tree is dead."

BLACK ELK
-Lakota-

http://www.brotherhooddays.com/woundedknee.html

[H2O Man]

60. When I was a boy,

my elderly neighbor used to tell me about events during the Revolutionary War, in the area where we lived. He told me about the soldiers coming through during the Sullivan-Clinton Campaign. They were looking for specific Indian and "run-away" slave forces, under Mohawk leader Joseph Brant, but could not find them. So they killed the people they did find. These events took place between Teyunadelhough ("where the water sings") and Onaquaga ("place of corn soup"). Most of the men had left the area, and so the Hussatunnock and Susquehanna people there were women and children

Of course, there are some who do not think that oral tradition is reliable. I can deal with that. Those who question this can read Colin Calloway's "The American Revolution in Indian Country," (Cambridge University Press; 1995; pages 124-125). I could also refer people to the correct Historical Society to find the original documents, where soldiers described their frustration at not finding Brant, and instead making a games of "running (infants and small children) through with bayonets and holding them up to see how they would twist and turn."

The actual research work to find some of these things requires hours of study. "Onaquaga," for example, is spelled more than 40 ways in the research that I've done; Teyunadelhough at least 20 ways.

[mikekohr]

72. "History is written by the victors. Now we have our own printing press," -Tim Giago Oglala Lakota-

Mr. Giago, is one of America's foremost journalists. He founded "Indian Country Today," "The Lakota Journal," and is currently opening his third newspaper, "Native Sun Weekly."


The Truth Will Make You Free 8:32
-There are those that prefer to be shackled and chained by their own outlook and prejudice, enslaved by their own ignorance-

mike kohr

[H2O Man]

77. Very good.

Helping on a book on this very topic, myself.

[noiretextatique]

53. you always seem to support, for lack of a better term,

white supremacy.

[hfojvt]

62. now that is the sort of logic that is UNconvincing

thesis: white people are murderous liars

objection: Not really, sometimes they were defending themselves.

defense of thesis: You're an obvious white supremacist.


That seems to me like an admission that the original thesis is indefensible.

It isn't true anyway, because sometimes, I also support male privilege. After all, first I caucused for Edwards, and then for Obama. Male supremacy trumps white supremacy.

[noiretextatique]

63. i've seen your posts in several threads

and you always seem to have a comprehension problem regarding people of color, as you have done here.
read all of the replies to you in this thread and others, and take a good, long look in the mirror.
it's YOUR logic that led me to reach this conclusion. and yeah...it's not really that difficult to spot you. you are more common than you know.

[hfojvt]

65. and did most of the ones you know

vote for Jesse Jackson in the 1988 Wisconsin primary, or is that just me?
If people cannot explain or defend their position, I am not sure how that is my problem, comprehension or otherwise.

But I know that heresy is a mortal sin. Shibboleths are not to be questioned or doubted.

[Hannah Bell]

75. it's not the case. the poster took issue with the absolutist claim of another poster.

the defense of truth doesn't equal a "comprehension problem regarding 'people of color'" or defense of "white supremacy."

[liberalhistorian]

70. Yet when Indians defended themselves over

what was an invading army out to remove and destroy them, they're all murderers and not defending themselves against people who shouldn't have been there in the first place? Yeah, right. I'm sorry, but your South Dakota colors are showing.

[Hannah Bell]

76. "they're all murderers and not defending themselves"

where does the poster say this?

[mikekohr]

51. That's Not the WHOLE truth

In fact the Dakota People who were forced onto a small reservation were promised rations by the US government until such time they could become self sufficient. Almost immediately the government severely reduced rations which in addition to fraudulent practices by white traders led to widespread stravation. That violence broke out was predictable and predicated on the broken promises of the US government.




GENERAL POPE: First commander of the Military Department of the Northwest, and later a Civil War leader in the Union Army:
"It is my purpose to exterminate the Sioux."

Later, after uttering these words, General Pope over-saw the military trial of the Santee-Dakota People, arrested after their desperate attempt to drive out the settlers in southwest Minnesota. The Santee-Dakota were slowing starving to death due to chronic shortages of promised government rations and rampant theft of government commodities by traders and corrupt government officials. After a trader named Andrew Myrick told a council of elders, "So far as I am concerned, if they are hungry let them eat grass or their own dung," the Santee-Dakota rebelled and drove off 1000's of settlers, killing hundreds before their rebellion failed against the weight of General Pope's Army. Of the 392 prisoners tried, 306 were sentenced to death. So gross was the miscarriage of justice in these proceedings that all but 38 of the death sentences were commuted.
http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GENERAL%20POPE






GENERAL WILLIAM T. SHERMAN: http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GENERAL%20WILLIAM%20T.%20SHERMAN:
In a telegram to President U.S. Grant, "First kill off the buffalo, then kill off the Indian. We must act with vindictive earnestness against the Sioux, men, women, and children."

Ever the ruthless soldier and never one that could be mistaken as an "Indian lover," Sherman, never-the-less, was also quoted in his astute observation when he described a reservation as, "...a parcel of land inhabited by Indians and surrounded by thieves."




GENERAL PHILLIP SHERIDAN: http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#GENERAL%20PHILLIP%20SHERIDAN:
Attributed with saying, "The only good Indian is a dead Indian." (The actual quote is, "The only good Indian I ever saw was dead.")
When legislation was proposed in Texas to protect the buffalo herds Sheridan rushed to Austin to protest. He said, " The buffalo hunters have done more in two years to settle the vexed Indian problem than the entire U.S. Army has done in ten years.... Send them powder and lead if you will but for the sake of peace let them kill, skin, and sell until the buffalo are exterminated." 55).

Ironically in later years General Sheridan had this to say, "We took away their country and their means of support, and it was for this and against this they made war. Could anyone expect less?" 1).





YOUR PEOPLE MAKE BIG TALK AND SOMETIMES MAKE WAR IF AN INDIAN KILLS A WHITE MAN'S OX TO KEEP HIS WIFE AND CHILDREN FROM STARVING. WHAT DO YOU THINK MY PEOPLE SHOULD SAY WHEN THEY SEE OUR BUFFALO KILLED BY YOUR RACE WHEN YOU ARE NOT HUNGRY!
-LITTLE ROBE- 44).


The Truth Will Make You Free John 8:32

[mikekohr]

67. " finally 39 Native Americans were hanged." That is incorrect

It was 38, the largest mass hanging in US history. And it happened on the day after the Christain celebration of Christmas.

------------------clipped from http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html#ABRAHAM%20LINCOLN----------------------------------

ABRAHAM LINCOLN:
In my opinion the greatest man ever to hold the office of president. I however in all fairness must also point out the fact that after commuting the death sentences of 268 Dakota warriors in 1862, he allowed the execution of 38 Dakota men at the largest mass hanging in U.S. history. Many of the condemned men played no part in the rebellion. One of the executed, was a man named Chaska. Chaska's sole involvement in the rebellion , consisted of protecting the women of a white family he had befriended. Chaska, and his 37 condemned compatriots, plunged through the trap doors of the gallows on December 26th, 1862, the day after the Christian celebration of Christmas.
In 1863 President Lincoln at a conference with Native leaders from the Southern Plains presented the leaders with Presidential Peace Medals. Attempting to persuade the Native leaders of the superiority of White society he lectured them with the words, "We are not as a race so much disposed to fight and kill one another as our Red Brethren." Certainly these words must have bewildered the Native leaders as they were aware that over 300,000 men had died in the Civil War up to that point in time and another 300,000 would die before Lincoln himself was assassinated .

[a la izquierda]

28. K & R

I no longer study Native peoples in what is now the US...I moved my focus to Mexico and its indigenous populations. But it is a sore spot for me because there are so many Americans who are just clueless as to the sad history of "Indian" policy. Latin America is no better, but there are often bright spots in the history of Latin American Indians (bright being used a bit loosely).

I always appreciate your OPs on our Native peoples. :toast:

[H2O Man]

30. Thanks.

I have an interest in the history of Mexico and Central America, too. And, for many years (obviously including the Reagan-Bush1 era), have been active in support work. Inigenous leadrs/representatives from Central and South America visit Onondaga, from time to time.

[annabanana]

31. kick. . . . . . n/t

[H2O Man]

35. A series on PBS

will start on Monday, April 13, at 9 pm est. The 5-part series includes:

4-13: After the Mayflower
4-20: Tecumseh's Vision
4-27: Trail of Tears
5-4: Geronimo
5-11: Wounded Knee

The 5-11 program covers the 71-day occupation in 1973.

[byronius]

42. Great Post.

[Me.]

43. A Good Start In The Right Direction

White House selects more Native faces

“Mary L. Smith, a member of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma, has been named as a nominee for assistant attorney general in the tax division at the Department of Justice. She is currently a partner at Schoeman, Updike, Kaufman & Scharf LLP, a female-owned law firm.”

“Hilary Tompkins, a member of the Navajo Nation, has been named as a nominee for solicitor of the Department of the Interior. She was previously a top lawyer to Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico from 2003 – 2008, providing expertise within the governor’s office on Native American affairs. She formerly worked in a legal capacity for several Indian nations.

Obama has also nominated Rhea Suh as assistant secretary for policy, management and budget at the interior. Well-versed in Indian issues, she is a former aide to retired Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell, R-Colo., a member of the Northern Cheyenne Tribe of Montana.”

http://www.indiancountrytoday.com/politics/42799032.html

[Joe Fields]

45. John Ross was a wise man.

Thank you for your insight on all native American issues.


:thumbsup:

[mikekohr]

50. "Your Heroes Are Not Our Heroes," -Tall Oak, Naraganssett-

Visit the page @ http://www.brotherhooddays.com/HEROES.html which examines the words and deeds from the "old navigator" Christopher Columbus (greatest slave exporter in history) to George Washington (the Destroyer of towns and killer of women and children), to the racist, genocide advocting author L. Frank Baum (Wizard of Oz), to fat-ass troglydite Rush Limbaugh.


"American history is longer, larger, more various, more beautiful, and more terrible than anyone has ever said about it." James Baldwin-

"There's a destructive urge in people, the urge to rage, murder, and kill," but, "I still believe, in spite of everything, that people are good at heart."
-Anne Frank-

"Memory says, "I did that." Pride replies, "I could not have done that." Eventually, memory yields.
-Friedrich Nietzsche-

"What seems to matter most is the great silence, the denial of any holocaust."
Carter Revard -Osage-

"The danger lies in forgetting."
Eli Wiesel

"The truth shall make you free."
John 8:32


mike kohr

[spanone]

61. k&r