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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:06 PM
Original message
Appomattox Again
(Author's note: I know the poem below is Invictus; I credited it to McVeigh because he read those lines as his final statement before his execution, and I credited it to McVeigh to make a larger point. - wrp)



Appomattox Again
By William Rivers Pitt
t r u t h o u t | Columnist

Friday 10 April 2009

Out of the night that covers me,
Black as the Pit from pole to pole,
I thank whatever gods may be
For my unconquerable soul.


- Timothy McVeigh


April 9 was a Sunday in 1865, and in the town of Appomattox, Virginia, the sun was shining down on the end of a war. Confederate forces, led by Gen. Robert E. Lee, had finally been brought to bay by Gen. Ulysses Grant after four grueling, blood-sodden years. Lee's surrender at Appomattox was the conclusion of the largest and deadliest armed insurrection in American history.

April 9 was a Thursday in 2009, and there are some lo these 144 years later who would very much like to see another armed insurrection erupt within these United States. The casus belli for today's would-be revolutionaries is not states' rights, slavery or economic independence, but is instead a toxic mix of fundamentalist Christianity, ultra-conservative orthodoxy and, more than anything else, guns.

The existence of armed and angry insurrectionists in America is nothing new. As Robert Kennedy once observed, "One-fifth of the people are against everything all the time." The militia movement, in one form or another, has been a part of our history literally since the founding of the nation itself, and memories of Waco, Ruby Ridge and the bombing of the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City remain acutely fresh in mind even years later.

Lately, the news has been flooded with reports of citizens arming themselves to the teeth, egged on by right-wing media personalities prophesying doom, the rise of socialism, and that a Marxist dictator now sits in the Oval Office. This frenzy has been spilling from talk radio and television out into the streets for weeks now, and has recently metastasized into acts of outrageous violence. It smells like a new beginning of something this nation has not been forced to endure for nearly a decade.

Last Monday, a man named Richard Poplawski ambushed and murdered three Pittsburgh police officers and tried to kill nine others. Poplawski's motivations, according to friends and family, centered around his belief in the existence of a vast government conspiracy to destroy American freedoms while establishing a left-wing dictatorship under President Obama. Poplawski came to believe all this after listening to and reading the paranoid rantings of right-wing luminaries like Alex Jones, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity.

Last July, a man named Jim Adkisson walked into a Universalist church in Knoxville and began blazing away with a 12-gauge shotgun, killing two people and wounding several others. He had 70 shotgun shells with him, and fully intended to massacre as many people in the church as possible before police killed him, but he was tackled and disarmed by members of the congregation before he could complete his task.

Eric Boehlert, writing for Media Matters on April 7, said, "When investigators went to Adkisson's home in search of a motive, as well as evidence for the pending trial, they found copies of Savage's 'Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder,' 'Let Freedom Ring' by Sean Hannity, and 'The O'Reilly Factor,' by Fox News's Bill O'Reilly. They also came across what was supposed to have been Adkisson's suicide note: a handwritten, four-page manifesto explaining his murderous actions. The one-word answer for his deed? Hate. The three-word answer? He hated liberals."

"The only way we can rid ourselves of this evil," wrote Adkisson, "is kill them in the streets. Kill them where they gather. I'd like to encourage other like minded people to do what I've done. If life aint worth living anymore don't just Kill yourself. Do something for your Country before you go. Go Kill Liberals!"

Describing the Pittsburgh incident, Boehlert wrote, "In the wake of the bloodbath, we learned that Poplawski was something of a conspiracy nut who embraced dark, radical rhetoric about America. He was convinced the government wanted to take away his guns, the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette reported. Specifically, Poplawski, as one friend described it, feared 'the Obama gun ban that's on the way' and 'didn't like our rights being infringed upon.' (FYI, there is no Obama gun ban in the works.) The same friend said the shooter feared America was 'going to see the end of our times.'"

"Hysterical warnings of government gun grabs and a socialist takeover of the US are no longer the sole proprietary interest of fringe players like Jones," wrote Max Blumenthal on Wednesday. "In the Obama era, Jones's conspiracy theories have graduated to primetime on Fox News. And radicals like Poplawski are tuning in. Indeed, according to the Anti-Defamation League, the alleged killer posted a YouTube clip to (neo-Nazi web site) Stormfront of top-rated Fox News host Glenn Beck contemplating the existence of FEMA-managed concentration camps. ('He backed out,' Poplawski wrote cryptically beside the video.) Three weeks later, Poplawski posted another YouTube clip to Stormfront, this time of a video blogger advocating 'Tea Parties,' or grassroots conservative protests organized by Beck and Fox News contributor Newt Gingrich against President Barack Obama's bailout plan."

There have been more stories like this in recent months, and if history is any guide, there will be more to come. The timing of all this is deeply troubling, and the media players involved are all too familiar. There is something sinister at work here, something malevolent, something sly.

Consider the curious historical synchronicity of all this: after the inauguration of a new Democratic president, there has been a sudden upsurge of right-wing polemicists agitating right-wing citizens into right-wing-motivated acts of violence. The last time things came together like this was back in 1993, after the Waco and Ruby Ridge debacles, combined with the passage of NAFTA and the Brady Bill, detonated into a militia movement that was wildly active, and exceedingly violent, throughout the entirety of President Bill Clinton's two terms.

Dozens of militia-related incidents, including the Oklahoma City bombing, took place during those years. In 2001, however, these incidents stopped almost completely, and for the entirety of George W. Bush's two terms as president, hardly a peep was heard from the militia movement that had been so robustly vigorous during the administration of Bush's predecessor.

A Democratic president takes office in 1993 and the militia movement explodes, egged on by a whole host of right-wing media voices.

A Republican president takes office in 2001 and the militia movement, along with those media voices who sponsored it, all but disappear from the American political landscape.

A Democratic president takes office in 2009, and once again, right-wing media voices begin their clarion call for armed revolution, and once again, a portion of their listeners erupt into violence.

"In Politics," President Franklin Roosevelt once said, "nothing happens by accident. If it happens, you can bet it was planned that way."

Indeed.
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tekisui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
1. knr!~ I have nothing more to add.
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MrPerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Greatness brings out the kooks.
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Nay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
3. Remember to add to your statement...
"A Republican president takes office in 2001 and the militia movement, along with those media voices who sponsored it, all but disappear from the American political landscape."

The infuriating thing is that yes, they were quiet during Bush, while Bush took away their rights to habeas corpus, their privacy rights, and many other rights, AND NOT A PEEP OUT OF THEM.

This, folks, is the power of propaganda.

The downfall of this country will be due to the power of propaganda.
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We need the Fairness Doctrine back!
Propaganda needs to be countered on the very same airwaves that disseminate it.
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:05 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. We need media re-regulation before any sort of "doctrine"
Edited on Fri Apr-10-09 06:05 PM by Dennis Donovan
The media needs to be separated from its mega-corporate ownership. That would do MUCH more to diversify opinion on the airwaves than any sort of "fairness doctrine."
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FiveGoodMen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. That's good, too.
But there's no reason to think that the same bad opinions wouldn't wind up on smaller stations.

With twitter, they can all have their talking points synchronized in seconds.
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Esra Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
5. "and there are some lo these 144 years later who would very much "
Could you explain "lo"? Or is it a typo?
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rambler_american Donating Member (565 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:57 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Use the google
it is your friend


lo
7 entries found.

1. lo
2. LO
3. lo and behold
4. lo–fi
5. lo mein
6. Yung–lo
7. Saint–Lô


Main Entry:

Pronunciation:
\ˈlō\
Function:
interjection
Etymology:
Middle English, from Old English lā
Date:
before 12th century

—used to call attention or to express wonder or surprise <lo these many years>

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Esra Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:07 AM
Response to Reply #14
45. Thank you for your work.
I, at first, didn't think it was that "lo".
The english is a bit fractured and obscure.
Thanks again
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Wetzelbill Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Nobody feels threatened by the mediocre
The status quo doesn't fight itself. It's telling that the right-wing did nothing but support the most disastrous president in history, yet fought against one of the most successful and now fights against another one who is seeking to clean up all of their messes.
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Richd506 Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. They just don't get the concept of democracy very well
Just because you have the right to vote, doesn't mean you'll always get what you want.
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:23 PM
Response to Original message
9. Symptoms of a dying republic.
I really doubt the United States will be "united" twenty years from now.
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Dennis Donovan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. Fear and hate sells...
Limbaugh, Beck and their ilk will always exploit and enhance the fears of their listeners, for no other reason than to enhance their ratings - and their wallets.
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
12. Liberals Are So Conditioned to Hate Attacks On Patriotism That Right Wing Gets A Free Pass
The right wing gets a free pass on making statements and attacks on the government that border upon treasonous. When Bush is President, any type of dissent is branded as unpatriotic. However, stung by these attacks, we liberals are now loathe to call out inflammatory language by the right wing, because we are afraid of being labled as hypocrites.

My take is that we cannot give the right wing a free pass for such dangerous provacation and propaganda. Using violent imagery and telling people that Obama is going to take their guns will lead some people to take such claims literally, and they may react violently.

Great article. k&r.
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #12
24. tell obama. he's into giving passes. nt
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Median Democrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #24
44. Yup, Another DUer Buys Into Maureen Dowd's Obambi Stereotype of Diplomacy As Weak
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 10:49 PM by Median Democrat
It is odd how many DUers yearn for Bush style, retribution on those who disagree with him, as well as having President Bush constantly whining about the NY Times.
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Time for change Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-10-09 11:58 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why do you think they do this?
Is it simply hatred?

Or do they have something more calculating in mind?
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:00 AM
Response to Original message
15. This is no coincidence. It's not a "reaction against greatness". .
It is a deliberate, calculated device.

Can you IMAGINE a "liberal" host pretending to douse someone with gasoline not getting knocked off the air immediately?
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:21 AM
Response to Original message
16. It is North v. South
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The_Commonist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:39 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. It is PROgressive vs. REgressive
I do think it's along the lines of mediocrity vs. the potential for greatness.
Some people just can't evolve out of the muck, and therefore don't want others to reach the stars...
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #16
23. ...he said, posting from Joe McCarthy country. n/t
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #23
34. Well
I'd rather live in Yankee country than live in that hell hole you do.
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FreeCajun Donating Member (167 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #34
37. Nice inclusiveness there.
Great to see that there's no racist, classist, or elitist behavior on this board like you'd find in Freeperland.
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imdjh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Floridians are used to it. All kinds of people like to tell us why they wouldn't live here.
And I just say, "Oh wow, you're wearing real shoes! Lord, I can't remember the last time I wore anything but Tevas."
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
41. And yet for months now I have been stuck behind people from Wisconsin and such places,
driving 20 mph in the left lane, slamming their brakes on every few yards, etc.

They talk about how they would never come here, but we can't walk for them.
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #34
40. How old are you?
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 07:18 PM by QC
You forgot to stick your stubby little fingers in your ears and say, "So nyah!"
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #23
47. Joe McCarthy country?
Why is it just a picture of Honest Abe seems to bring out the hatred of the North on this board. Is that you Jeb?
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
49. Joe McCarthy was from Wisconsin. n/t
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boomerbust Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:00 PM
Response to Reply #49
51. What
McCarthy from Wisconsin? I did noi know that.:eyes:
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QC Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Yes, the people of Wisconsin chose him over one of the greatest progressives in history,
Bob LaFollette, and then were so pleased with his witch hunt that they re-elected him.

My point, of course, was that nasty politics is not localized to any particular place. California, after all, launched both Nixon and Reagan on their great careers as public menaces.
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Faygo Kid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. Just listen to the Reich wing talking heads. They are clearly calling for violence.
Mostly against Obama, but against liberals generally, too. They are totally irresponsible, and liars, as well.

Those who say we should ignore them are wrong. They are calling for violence. Try listening for as long as you can, and then tell me I'm wrong.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. Radio has 90% right wing talk shows to 10% "progressive" Fair and balanced?
Not by my math.
Listen but have the disifectant handy:

The Rush Limbaugh Show Broadcast live at: 12:00 p.m. to 3:00 p.m. ET

The Sean Hannity Show Broadcast live at: 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. ET

Michael Medved Show Broadcast live at: 3:00 to 6:00 p.m. ET

The Michael Reagan Talk Show Broadcast live at: 6:00 to 10:00 p.m. ET

The Savage Nation Broadcast live at: 7:00 p.m. to 10:00 p.m. ET ((Keep the Secret Service tip line handy)

The G. Gordon Liddy Show Broadcast live at: 10:00 a.m. to 2:00 p.m. ET

Neal Boortz Show Broadcast live at: 10:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m. ET

The Glenn Beck Program Broadcast live at: 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m ET

The Mike Gallagher Show Broadcast live at: 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 p.m. Eastern Time

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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #19
35. You forgot to mention. . .
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Yikes! Even his logo looks crazy - very 1984 Big Brother-ish... Who IS he?
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bushmeister0 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
48. A charactor from the book and movie "V For Vendetta."
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #48
50. Haven't seen it yet. I guess I need to get out more...
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WilliamPitt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. See it
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:11 PM
Response to Reply #52
55. Coming from you I will definitely seek it out. Thanks for the thought provoking OP
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geckosfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #18
26. Which why I decided to arm myself. Not worried about the traditional criminals.
I feel the need to defend myself against the right wing.
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libodem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:15 AM
Response to Original message
20. Media outlets being owned and managed
by Mega corporations with no regulation seems to have worked out for media something like what de-regulation has done for the banking and insurance industry. Wholesale slaughter of the value of decency and self-control. Media has turned into a right-wing propaganda machine and the banks an experiment in Corporate Socialism. Privatize the profits, nationalize the losses. Media has a comparable mantra. It just needs to be conceived.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:40 AM
Response to Original message
21. There is a big difference between then and now Will.
You are part of that difference. There is a way to make a point of what is happening known to millions of people. There is a way of shining light unto the situation. As long as we have the internet we have the means to combat these cretins. Thank you for your very bright focused LED.

Kevin
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blueworld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
22. I particularly thank you for this post
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 11:03 AM by blueworld
I live in Appomattox County, and the signs all over our area read "where our country was reunited". This area has a horrible history, as you've noted, but we began anew here. We, in the 5th District of VA, voted out Virgil "bigot" Goode after years of his destructive views.

I completely agree that Glenn Beck, in particular, is instigating insurrection (at best) and I sincerely wish someone in authority would reign him in & charge him with any number of offenses. He's a horror. And he's in league with other paranoid right-wingnut horrors. I, like many of my friends & neighbors, agree with your assessment that something sinister is at work here, but we can't put our fingers on it exactly. Who owns/controls the media feeding the insanity? I don't know.

I would like all your readers to know, however, that "we're" here. "We're" changing a great deal, rather quickly in this area of VA. that was once a seat of the crap you've described & suburb to Jerry Falwell, minister of judgemental bigotry and religious claptrap. We're here & we're active. I worried that we'd never get rid of Goode & his ilk, but we did.

As Appomattox is the place where our country reunited, let Obama be the "symbol" around which our country reunites again, and we sweep the paranoid crap right off the coast if we have to. Keep the faith.


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Demeter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 11:28 AM
Response to Original message
25. by Letting Bush, Rove, Gonzales and all get away with their crimes
Obama gives these brain-damaged people permission to slaughter anyone they want to.
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Autonomy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
27. Logged on just to rec
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cannabis_flower Donating Member (386 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 12:49 PM
Response to Original message
28. We should learn a lesson from...
Rwanda. If anyone has ever seen Hotel Rwanda or Sometime in April, you will remember that the genocide was fueled by radio and also print media that vilified the Tutsi calling them cockroaches and suggesting they should be massacred. Radio hosts who foment violence should be prosecuted. There has to be something that they are guilty of.
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LiberalLovinLug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Very good point
It may seem to be a very distant and extreme analogy, but its close to the truth.

Especially when you look at the post Rwanda massacres. How so many of the violent were sorry for what they did after. That many were actually good neighbors to their victims before they were stirred up enough by radio hosts and egged on by the mob mentality to do what was previously unthinkable. That if the majority, or at least a large percentage of your "tribe" is on board, you would feel legitimized to join in. It starts with a small minority egged on by media hosts with an agenda to foment violence, and as it progressed in Rwanda or potentially here, it would entice the normally placid, loud talkers, into joining in with loud actions.

I don't listen to any reich wing hate radio, but from what snippets I have heard I am most fearful of that whacko Glenn Beck. He seems to truly be mentally deranged enough to believe the dangerous accusations he spews. Hannity and Savage are also in that category. In comparison someone like O'Reily just seems to be more of a baffoon, as Letterman calls him. Its a shtick that he makes a lot of money at. I'd include Coulter, and Dennis Miller in that group.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Don't forget Michael Reagan:
Edited on Sat Apr-11-09 01:56 PM by sabrina 1
Talk Show Host Calls for Murder

Michael Reagan says activist should be killed for treason

WASHINGTON — June 26 — Nationally syndicated conservative radio host Michael Reagan called for the murder of a political activist on June 10. Reagan, a frequent guest on cable news shows and the son of President Ronald Reagan, singled out 9/11 activist Mark Dice by name and called several times for his assassination.

(Click here to listen to a 3 minute audio clip.)


“We ought to find the people who are doing this, take them out and shoot them. Really. You take them out, they are traitors to this country, and shoot them. You have a problem with that? Deal with it. You shoot them. You call them traitors, that’s what they are, and you shoot them dead. I’ll pay for the bullets.”


Even more troubling was the call for violence against a specific individual:

“How about you take Mark Dice out and put him in the middle of a firing range. Tie him to a post, don’t blindfold him, let it rip and have some fun with Mark Dice.”



After complaints about his remarks, Reagan had Dice on his show and apologized, claiming that 'talkshow hosts sometimes make mistakes.

Reagan’s “mistakes,” unfortunately, have repeatedly involved advocating murder to his audience. On August 15, 2006, Reagan called for violently killing babies who were reportedly being named for the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah and Hezbollah’s leader, Hassan Nasrallah:

“Naming their children ‘Hezbollah.’ You know what I’d get ‘em for a first birthday? I’d put a grenade up their butts and light it. Happy birthday, baby. Bye bye.”

In response to a caller who pointed out that children are not responsible for the names they are given, Reagan repeatedly asserted, “So what’s wrong with killing the mothers and the babies?”


And he wanted Howard Dean dealt with violently also:

On December 5, 2005, Reagan said Democratic National Committee chairman Howard Dean “should be arrested and hung for treason or put in a hole until the end of the Iraq War.” (Watch clip on the Media Matters website) This was in response to Dean’s statement (WOAI-AM, 12/5/05) that “the idea that we’re going to win this war is just plain wrong.”


http://news.lavenderliberal.com/2008/06/26/michael-reagan-calls-for-murder-of-911-activist-mark-dice-vigilante-style/


And then there's G. Gordon Liddy calling for a 'head shot' if the government comes to take away your guns.

All these people are still on the air.
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winyanstaz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 01:33 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. It is treason to advocate the violent overthrow of a government
It is a crime to incite people to do violence.
The trouble is not that its not a crime, it is that our justice system is corrupt and no one is enforcing or prosecuting the laws equally for all.
Heck we cant even get them to look at the cases of people we already know were railroaded by politics..such as Governor Don Siegelman and Leonard Peltier.

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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:28 PM
Response to Original message
32. America-hatin' wack jobs.
Ship em' off to Somalia!
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OwnedByFerrets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 02:48 PM
Response to Original message
33. K and R
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starroute Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. The question of who's behind this may be the most significant
The GOP is clearly whipping them up -- but these guys are obviously not under their control. The old-line anti-tax groups and the corporate fronts also seem to have a stake in the game, but they don't seem to be the ultimate motivating force, either.

A lot of their rhetoric and the precise form of their conspiracy theories go back to the John Birch Society -- but the Birch Society itself has been marginal for decades, and there doesn't seem to be any other clear center for its dissemination.

The best I can suggest is a kind of synthesis -- that there's something very dark down at the bottom of the American psyche, and that the corporate interests and political bosses play it like a finely tuned engine, either revving it up or damping it down as the times call for.

In which case, there's really nobody in control -- just a bunch of loonies who are either let out of the asylum or herded back in by a bunch of manipulators who aren't really concerned with the dangers involved in the forces they're toying with. And that may be the scariest prospect of all.

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live love laugh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 07:23 PM
Response to Original message
42. This needs more attention. nt
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AbortTheRight Donating Member (5 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-11-09 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Really though...
Why is it the right wingers have all the guns?? Why are all the paramilitary militia groups conservative?? It really bothers me that there aren't these sorts of armed groups on the left.
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Kolesar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 06:36 AM
Response to Reply #43
46. The FBI stomped out the armed left wing groups by the 1970s
The Weather Underground, Move, Students for a Democratic Society, Youth International Party, etc. For that matter, the FBI destroyed the Communist Party and were trying to destroy non-violent activist Dr. Martin Luther King at the time when a RW assassin killed him.
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FailureToCommunicate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Apr-12-09 10:09 PM
Response to Reply #46
54. Please. I was in several of those groups you mentioned. They were never "armed" with
anything more dangerous than printing presses and bull horns (and a few rounds of self righteousness). The hate radio listeners of today have Mossbergs, etc.
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