I'll Tip An Automatic 20% When You:

[NashVegas]

Stop downloading and uploading music, TV, and movie files w/out paying for them


Stop using TiVo to zip through commercials


Stop posting entire news articles and essays on the internet and/or start buying online subscriptions instead of taking the "day pass" option and not clicking on the advertisement that turns up, and/or start clicking more on online ads, in general, on websites where you regularly accept free content


Stop putting your photos up on Flickr and other stock sites where you might make a few pennies, just to gratify your own ego, when professional photographers are working longer hours for less money.


Buy only union-made factory items of every kind


Bottom line: stagflation affects everyone. Stop trying to make me and other people feel guilty for sticking to traditional tipping measures when our paycheck's not getting any fatter, either.

[stillcool]

1. your poor waitress...

all that is riding on her tip?

[NashVegas]

2. It's Not About Her

15% is very reasonable for service that's adequate but not particularly memorable. As the cost of food rises, so does the tip. At least they have that going for them.

It's the sanctimonious crap of the "I always tip 20-25% and everyone else should, too," crowd. You can shout all you want to about how servers deserve to see higher tips regardless of how well they do their jobs, but odds are 5:1 you're doing something elsewhere that takes food off of someone else's table.

I can only assume people who say that are fortunate enough to have jobs that aren't disappearing altogether because of globalism and changing technology, and that they have not been subject to stagflation.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

3. Good service should be rewarded. Bad service should not. Your other

stuff is pretty much irrelevant.

[NashVegas]

4. Those Who Argue Otherwise

Are happy to throw their own irrelevant crap into it. Why shan't I?

[Bill McBlueState]

7. well,

is your goal to make a good argument, or to sink to the level of everyone else?

This is great:

Stop trying to make me and other people feel guilty for sticking to traditional tipping measures when our paycheck's not getting any fatter, either.

The rest is distracting.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

9. You can say whatever you want, but if you CHOOSE to be serviced

then you shouldn't penalize the person giving it to you because of some other unrelated issue. I tend to think you're looking for a reason to be a cheapskate.

[NashVegas]

16. 15% Is Not A Penalty With Tipping

10% is penalty.

12% is penalty.

Until the National Restaurant Association or some other trade group publicizing that 20% is now the expected rate, a self-appointed group of online posters are barking mad to think they are the arbitrators.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

29. Ok, well I misread then. Yeah, 15% is a good tip. I generally do give 20%

for very good service though.

[NashVegas]

35. I Appreciate You Posted That

Many others would have just skulked off and waited for another opportunity to pounce on someone.

I'm a little shocked that it's even a question at the diner level, as one person in this thread made it, where the bill only comes to $10 to begin with. 15% on *that's* heathen, unless you're an art student :)



:hug:

[GoesTo11]

10. Think absolute $ vs. amount of work

At Denny's your server on a multi-course meal slam breakfast might spend 30 minutes all told attending to you. 15% of $2.99 = $0.45, six bits, you cheap bastard.

At a nicer restaurant, where main courses are $15, wine is $5/glass, etc., the service provided might be the same, but the bill for the table of 6 might be $300, a 15% tip = $45.

If the service at Denny's is decent and with a smile, why not double tip? Not necessary at the nicer restaurant - $90 for serving a meal would be very generous, more generous than is reasonable to expect (although multi-millionaires should certainly double tip then - but that's for people who think of a $300 meal like we think of a Denny's Senior Slam).

[SammyWinstonJack]

15. .

you cheap bastard. :spray:

[Mari333]

28. ...

B-)

[NashVegas]

17. WAT The FRACK?

1. I don't eat at Dennys, and if this whole tipping debate is about some twerps who honestly think ANYONE is going to be a stickler over a $2.99 bill, oh jesus god help you you all need to take some Xanax, now.

2. At a nicer restaurant, a main course costs a hell of a lot more than that. Either way, that server is going to serve not one, but more like 3-4 tables at a time and that $45 becomes $180. Doubles if each table cycles twice. FUCK. I would love to make $180-$360 in 3-4 hours. So would a lot of people who can't afford to pick up a $300 check more than once a year.

[ohheckyeah]

21. If you're allowing people on a message board to get

you this upset over tipping you might want to take a Xanax.

[RaleighNCDUer]

23. Huh?

The server doesn't make $180 on a $180 tab - the server's 20% is $36.

[NashVegas]

25. Read Up

[RaleighNCDUer]

31. Again,

Huh?

[dmallind]

46. This may help

The scenario that started that calculation.....

At a nicer restaurant, where main courses are $15, wine is $5/glass, etc., the service provided might be the same, but the bill for the table of 6 might be $300, a 15% tip = $45.

If the service at Denny's is decent and with a smile, why not double tip? Not necessary at the nicer restaurant - $90 for serving a meal would be very generous, more generous than is reasonable to expect (although multi-millionaires should certainly double tip then - but that's for people who think of a $300 meal like we think of a Denny's Senior Slam).



So the idea is that $180 on a short shift of 3-4 tables is very feasible in such a place.

I too, frankly, have no idea where this silly 20-25% as norm for all price points is coming from. How many waitstaff have one table? How long does it take to take an order and bring it when ready? If you come by more than once to ask how things are you are bothering people, not serving them. So how long does it take to get that tip of actual work?

[xxqqqzme]

42. What color is the sky on your planet?

My son would love to make tips like that in a 4 hour shift and he works at an up-scale restaurant.

The reality is the current economy has hit the upscale restaurants very hard. My son is lucky if he comes home w/ $60 after a dinner shift. Usually his shift is cut short because there aren't enough patrons to support the staff.

And if those 'tips' are included in the credit card charge - that tip is reported as income. That is why I always leave a cash tip. If a person do not have the funds to tip, they have no business eating out in the first place.

[pnwmom]

48. Why shouldn't the tips be reported as income? Aren't they income? n/t

[anigbrowl]

41. ?! Nobody spends 30 minutes attending to a single customer in a Denny's

...unless the customer is impossibly difficult or totally paralyzed or something. I used to work in a diner. The customer might be there for 30 minutes, but the actual length of work time to seat them, take, deliver and check on their order, as well as provide them with water and coffee is probably more like 3-5 minutes in most cases. The time to cook such a meal is maybe 2-3 minutes, tops.

Where on earth do you get this idea? I eat pretty often in both regular and fancy restaurants, and even in the nice restaurant nearby where we know the staff well enough to have a social relationship with them, we probably don't interact much longer than 5 minutes for a given visit, unless we're the last ones there and before closing and the waiter joins us for a drink after we're done eating or something.

[JVS]

52. Grand slams are 5.99 now

[stillcool]

22. People tip what they want...

Some people don't feel they should have to tip at all. They figure the restaurant should be happy to get their business, and the wait staff should 'be grateful' for whatever they get. At no time does it occur to them that they are actually expected to pay to be waited on. The only food on the table that will change based on the tip I leave, is that which is on the waitresses table.

[GoesTo11]

43. After reading Nickel and Dimed, I became a bigger tipper

15% used to be my standard, and I would give more in special cases if the service was unusually good. Now 25% is my standard, and I give less in special cases if the service is unusually bad (or more for unusually good). For context, I go to low to medium end restaurants.

[Statistical]

5. So using a TIVO is stealing.

If you want to broadcast pay TV then broadcast pay TV.

If using a VCR stealing also?
If walking out of the room stealing?
If tuning out the commercials and reading until show comes back on stealing?

[varkam]

27. I'm guessing using the mute button is also stealing.

[Bolo Boffin]

38. I find that even zipping through the commercials reinforces the ads I've seen

I recognize them as they dash through. After you've seen it once, just a couple of frames is enough to reinforce the advertisement. Advertisers know this.

I watch enough real-time television to catch most of the ads anyway. Sometimes I forget I'm watching the DVR and let the ads play. And eventually the DVR technology will allow the station to force you to watch certain ads on DVR, spots they can charge more cash for. Advertising will always be with us.

[cali]

6. wow. amazing stupid OP

you want to tip 15%? Fine, but throwing all that crapola in to justify it, is just lame.

[NashVegas]

11. Total Misread

The point is not whether I want to pay 15% or not.

The point is whether I - and others - should blindly accept someone else's pronouncement that those of us who base our tips at 15% and go from there dependent on service - are heathens who are shafting food servers.

[cali]

13. then why throw all the nonsense out? Why not just write an OP

stating there's nothing wrong with a 15% tip and explain why. I actually don't have a problem with 15% either- though I generally do tip 20%.

[NashVegas]

33. It's The Argument

That "Times have changed and we need to ..." that was particularly galling. And that it's coming on a message board where people regularly copy/paste the work from other people without paying for it, more so.

[Maine-ah]

8. as a server, I have no problem with 15%

it's the assholes that tip 10% or less.

as far as the rest of your post well...

[BOSSHOG]

12. I always tip to service

The better the service the bigger the tip. I think one should budget a tip into their dinner plans and dine accordingly (out or in depending on your financial situation.) My wife and I had a nice meal last night and I tipped 50% because the service was outstanding. We are fortunate to do so and I like spreading our money into the community.

[NashVegas]

24. As An Eater

I have no problem with tipping 20-25% for good->very good service.

It's those hypocrites who freeload in other areas, who for some reason have decided to elevate the paycheck of one particular profession and taken it upon themselves to attempt to shame others over this who've got their heads up their asses, thanks very much.

[liberalmuse]

14. Failed logic.

One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. People who are too cheap to tip should stick to fast food joints or stay the fuck home. It's as simple as that.

[NashVegas]

20. Horsehockey

Like, arbitrarily insisting the standard for tipping is 20%, 'well, not really, but your cheap if you don't because I say so,' is logical?

[RaleighNCDUer]

18. I can remember when 10% was expected, and 15% was for

exceptional service.

My years in the industry have bumped that to 15% & 20% - I only go to 25% if I'm really drunk.

And all those other things you mentioned are irrelevant, and have nothing to do with the food service industry. Why conflate them?

[dkf]

19. Of course they want to guilt you into tipping 20%.

Then they don't have to pay their people crap, since they expect you to do all the tipping.

Then again if you talk about bonusing a Banker a minimum of 20% people here will scream bloody murder. Oh the irony.

[Oregone]

26. spot on

[mitchum]

30. Whatever, Mr Pink

[BlooInBloo]

32. (shrug) I believe in doing more than the bare minumum. Not everybody does. So be it.

[Deja Q]

34. In order of each paragraph:

1. I pay my way.

2. No tivo, never mind that corporate sponsors pay for everything with commercials -- then jack up the prices of the items we buy. We pay for everything, whether we want to... or not.

3. I agree.

4. I agree!

5. I tip a lot when I can (think 25~50%, average: 33%) and most people do good work, legitimate work, for the scant paychecks doled out to them at week's end. It's the gross inequities on the managerial side that annoy (e.g. RIAA, et al)

[NashVegas]

36. I Have to Wonder

What part of the argument / disconnect is coming from people who think others are running around leaving $1.50 for a $10 bill at Denny's. The only people I've ever seen do that are strapped college students and musicians :D

[ZombieHorde]

37. Just tip whatever you want and don't worry about it. nt

[anigbrowl]

39. What a heap of wank, especially...

"Stop putting your photos up on Flickr and other stock sites where you might make a few pennies, just to gratify your own ego, when professional photographers are working longer hours for less money."

Hmm...so if you take a photograph that more desirable than that taken by a professional, an advertiser or other buyer shouldn't use it despite it being just what they want? right, whatever.

Incidentally, I work in the arts/entertainment business so some of what I produce is professional and some for pleasure. I'm flattered if someone wants to use one of my photos for something and pay a small fee. Fact is there are a lot more high-quality affordable cameras out there, along with suitable photo-editing software, and taking/developing a great picture doesn't involve as much effort or skill as it used to. Perhaps we should disable all cameras under $1000 and limit availability of editing software to those who have operated their own darkroom for a minimum of 3 years.

While we're at it, maybe we should limit the use of internet discussion forums to people with degrees in the subjects they want to talk about...

And no, I'm not trying to make you feel guilty about how much you tip. I generally tip 15%, and feel fine about it. I felt fine about it when I was a short-order cook too, back in the day.

[Kurska]

40. Anywhere from 10-25% is exceptable on a scale of Bad to excellent

Terrible service on the other hand (That come from the action's of the person I'm tipping, it's not the waiters fault that the middle of a steak is a little undercooked), can In a fair world warrant not being tipped at all.

I reserve the right to stiff, but only at restaurants which disappoint me so badly in their service I will never patronage them again.

[depakid]

44. How about simply paying everyone a living wage?

Then- as in Australia, people won't need to tip.

[madinmaryland]

45. Ding ding ding!! That is the correct answer.

Thanks!!

[Deja Q]

47. But then food prices will go up! And clothing prices!! Can't have that!!! I, a CEO, amd series!!1!

But in seriousness, what the fuck does anybody VALUE anymore anyway? Not work, not life...

[ddeclue]

49. Flame. Bait. Gratuitously calling out other DU'ers. nt

[cbc5g]

50. You dern yungsters quit yer taping the songs on the radio, it's stealing!!

damn hippies

[BobTheSubgenius]

51. I've had a comment stick with me for years about this issue.

My friend said "It doesn't take any more effort to carry steak and lobster to a table than it does a burger and fries. I tip for what the service is worth, not what the food costs." (He is a very generous and progressive guy, btw)

Case in point. This bonehead I used to work for LOVED to be The Last Of The Big-Time Spenders, and ended up (after, during and before a story that's a near-epic in itself) in the steakhouse at the Luxor in Vegas. He dropped almost $2600 on dinner for four that night.

So, take this arbitrary 20% model; someone "earned" $520 for serving that one table??? You wouldn't have to have a very big section to turn that kind of tipping into a decent income. Say....a 6-table section....$3000 a night, each table having only one seating per evening? It's ludicrous.

I don't make that in a whole week. Maybe you don't either. :sarcasm: