Pirates 2, U.S. Navy 0: Pirates repel Navy sailors trying to reach Captain.

[cali]

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/africa/04/11/somalia.u.s.ship/

[tekisui]

1. I was just about to post this.

I don't see it as a failed rescue attempt. Maybe a toe in the water, to gauge the pirates' reaction.

[atreides1]

4. Great Idea

And did they get the reaction they thought they would?

Now the pirates could very well be thinking that no matter what they do, they are either going to be killed or arrested and taken to an undisclosed location.

In other words, now they have nothing to lose and are very nervous. And nervous men with guns are not known for making smart decisions.

[tekisui]

8. I think the pirates realized that a day or two ago.

When resupplies were blocked, and no money is coming.

[cali]

14. good observation

CNN is reporting that the lifeboat has drifted considerably- toward shore.

[jwirr]

2. It is only a matter of time before they are out of fuel, ammo and food.

They will be especially dangerous to the Captain then but it also makes them more vulnerable to our soldiers.

[tekisui]

3. At some point, time will win out.

The pirates will ask themselves, just the four on the drifting boat, do we want to live or die, for this hostage. They should know money isn't coming, and they are surrounded. It's a wait game.

[SoCalDem]

11. The captain sealed his own fate when he went with them

and then again when he tried to escape.. The "pirates' will probably end up killing him, and then become martyrs.

Our military cannot give them what they want, and until Maersk pays them the ransom, they have no reason to let him go.... apparently the ship he was on, has continued on its way, so he would be released to the Navy, not his own ship.

Our Navy cannot just let Maersk pay a ransom, and then meekly retrieve the captain....and the pirates know that once they release the captain, they are all dead..

[malaise]

36. I'm still trying to figure out why he went with them

Makes no sense to me

[cali]

38. The pirates had guns and perhaps RPGs. The crew evidently had

no firearms.

[malaise]

57. And how is this different from every other ship that

pirates have attacked. Have any other captains gone off with the pirates.

[Egalitariat]

41. I doubt we'd kill them after they released the Captain

As it would set a precedent that would preclude future pirates from releasing their captives.

[peace13]

43. The captain has done the best that he could.

By trying to escape he was giving the Navy the opportunity to hit the hard orange life vessel. For some unknown reason the people on watch were unable to follow through. If I were in the water I would mean for the Navy to do whatever was necessary to end this mess. Unfortunately that did not transpire.

[malaise]

45. They'll also be out of bullets

at some point

[tabasco]

5. The vessel is a civilian vessel and the captain is a civilian captain.

This was the first involvement by the US Navy so how can it be 2-0?

[ThomWV]

7. And let me remind you the Captain is a US Citizen and the ship flew the US Flag.

[tabasco]

10. OK, is that the same as the Navy?

Explain.

[Posteritatis]

34. Folks do seem to like assuming that

Some dumbass in one of the other threads was trying to claim that American civilians have never crewed container ships, so they were obviously black ops or something. Oy.

[geek tragedy]

64. delete

[tekisui]

9. Not trying to speak for cali, but I assume she meant that

the Navy failed to pick the Captain out of the water when he jumped over. Even though, he was only in the water for a matter of seconds.

[targetpractice]

53. Right, in international waters.... Isn't this a private matter?

I'm asking because I don't know the law or what the role of the US Navy should be. I'm not trying to be cheeky.

Isn't this situation between Maersk and the pirates? It's their ship, their lifeboat, and their employee in international waters.

I know it's not the policy of the US government to negotiate, but isn't this a private matter? The US Navy is playing a support role, right? What does "flying the US flag" mean?

Suppose Maersk chooses to pay the $2M ransom? They are in a bad spot because of the potential PR fallout. Maersk's interests are not necessarily aligned with those of the US government. Suppose Maersk says, "Sorry officer, we've decided to not press charges."

Someone's gonna have egg on their face at the end of the day.

[ThomWV]

6. What they gonna do when a submarine comes up from under them and they're sitting on its deck?

Looking around like a pig in a diaper?

[stray cat]

12. Since the navy refused to even return fire - it sounds like they were trying to make contact

after all the pirates threw all their communication devices including phones over the side - not to helpful if they wanted to negotiate.

[targetpractice]

13. Paying ransom...

Does Maersk (the captain's employer and owner of the Alabama) make the call whether or not to pay ransom?

What happens if they decide to do so?

[Thothmes]

55. It is their ship, their captain

They get to decide if they will pay the ransom. Just like the owners of several dozen other ships that have been hijacked by these pirates. Our Government is probably advising them to delay any negotiations for payment until the current face off is concluded JMO

[peace13]

15. I have a different perspective on this one.

As a sailor on the Great Lakes I am perfectly aware that our heavily armed Homeland Security is spying on Americans using the waterways. I have no doubt that they would hole a boat in any fashion they chose if they so desired. You may say that there is an American hostage on board. We are all hostages and HS would not determine guilt before using drastic methods on citizens if we failed to do as they direct. Why are we pussyfooting around with this? Hole the life raft and scoop up the people or start explaining why they get such special treatment?

[Captain Hilts]

16. It's no 'raft', it is an uber North Atlantic lifevessel that is enclosed and very bouyant. nt

[ThomWV]

18. And probably a very nasty thing to get banged around inside of for several days

I'd immagine that with even a couple of foot seas that the people inside that hard plastic box are pretty much beat all to hell and gone.

[peace13]

23. They are built to save peoples lives in all kinds of seas!

Designed with people as cargo and stocked with emergency supplies. There could be worse places to be. The fact that one of them is there against his will makes the situation a bad one. The rest of the folks are pretty much playing out their own drama, the way I see it.

[Captain Hilts]

27. It's gotta be hot in there. nt

[jpak]

60. They have full body harnesses for each passenger to keep them secure in their seat in rough seas

They are pretty snug too...

[peace13]

19. I know what it looks like.

Captain, thank you for the information. It came off of a freighter correct? So it was either hanging over the side or jettisoned from the stern. Although I was unaware that these were impervious to all things and unsinkable. No comment on HS and the heavy hand?

[Poiuyt]

26. Here's a photo of one:

The fact that it's enclosed makes it more difficult for SEALS or snipers trying to rescue the captain.

[cali]

21. yike, what a load. No, we're certainly not all in Phillips' perilous situation

I'm sitting at home in Vermont. He's on a stinking lifeboat with guns pointed at him. comparing people who boat on the great lakes to Captain Phillips who's being held as a hostage, is just self-indulgent, dramatic bullshit.

[peace13]

24. You missed the point.

And your comments are rude. Not the first time I've seen that! You go girl.

[cali]

39. try making a point that's pertinant.

[mountainvue]

17. I think they could be waiting for the USS Boxer

to arrive. Then I think it's going to go down.

[Captain Hilts]

31. And the Seal team. nt

[peace13]

40. We can only hope.

My guess is that after we get through this situation that we will have a plan in place on how to resolve this type of situation. Seal Team would seem to have been the first order of business. Although if we blow this one out of the water or damage it enough to scoop the people out of the water, that would certainly have an impact on future escapes in the hard orange life vessels. What strikes me as strange is that our military is investing in drones that kill people all across the globe. Sometimes we hit innocent men, women and children. This does not seem to faze most Americans yet when one of our own is trapped in harms way we have no trouble seeing the value of that life. If we are going to be in the war industry raging carnage in every corner of the globe we are going to have to get used to losing a hostage from time to time. I do not know the history of the hostage and though it sounds like I am speaking harshly, I value all life, something our government does not do. This situation needs to be resolved with the future in mind. As hard as it may be to do we can not afford to miss here. Oh that some of us gave half the thought to those in the ME that are having their brains shaken loose, their bodies maimed or lives terminated.

[8 track mind]

20. Isn't there any snipers on the boat?

it's an enclosed life raft, duh. never mind, i'll just go away now.....

[stray cat]

22. I wonder if they just repelled the sole attempt to speak with them

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2009/04/11/news/news-us-somalia-piracy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

supposedly the Somali's are trying to mediate but the pirates threw all communication devices overboard and shoot if anyone comes within hailing distance.

[opihimoimoi]

25. Its time to think of the WHOLE....the Navy must take action to eliminate Pirate Threats

now and in the Future....else this will escalate over the Planet....

If there are casualties....that is the price of cleansing....nip it in the bud....

Bush was supposed to do this 2 years ago.....now look....

[Captain Hilts]

29. GWB cut the USN to the smallest # of hulls since before the First World War. Not muchleft. nt

[opihimoimoi]

32. Huh? we can't do it? Lack of hulls? But this is vital, mega important

should be among the first priorities...its too cheap not to do....

Action is now required....

[Captain Hilts]

33. I basically agree with you. At one point, they were ordered to cut rolls by 30K sailors in 3 years.

[opihimoimoi]

50. I see your point too...its just that we have the tools and manpower...but

we lack the combonation of Options to use: confusion : if confused, go to nx level: Basic: Threat to Whole: Eliminate ASAP with Full Force including military Ops:

[ColbertWatcher]

66. I guess that means Blackwater was planning to start a navy. n/t

[inwiththenew]

30. It is getting to that point

We need to try and get him back safely, but we cannot not show weakness or that we will pussyfoot around with these criminal thugs. If we don't firmly resolve this situation it is going to be trouble in the future.

[opihimoimoi]

35. History tells us Force is necessary and without hesitation....the threat must be squashed..period

[NorthernSpy]

44. What about the people dumping chemical and nuclear waste off Somalia's coast?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5435385


Do you suppose the Navy will blow them to smithereens too?


Of course, it's Europeans doing that, so they'll probably just get a mild scolding.

[opihimoimoi]

47. By all means YES....the Polluters dirty the Planetary SOUP...we are

poisoning ourselves if we allow continuance

A global effort to clean up can lead to millions of new jobs....

[JackRiddler]

65. An incomparably worse crime than anything the pirates do...

but to say so prompts the righteous to make even more pompous speeches about how intolerable the pirates are and how the Blame-America crowd loves them, etc.

As things are heading, thousands of non-pirates are going to be blown up in Somalia in a necessary show of force, with applause from many here. Because AMERICA needs to even that terrible score, it's a Schande.

And the waste will continue to be dumped in Somalia, poisoning thousands more.

And Somalis will be blamed for all of it, because pragmatist serious political types know you help Africa the most by always blaming the Africans and finding excuses to rescue them from breathing by engaging in humanitarian military interventions.

[peace13]

28. A moment of silence here for all of our service people around the world.

May each person be regarded with care and honor so that not one life will be wasted. Remind us that others put themselves in danger to protect us as we go about our daily lives and engage in our chosen livelihoods. Peace, Kim

[cali]

37. Just heard that the lifeboat is now only 20 miles off the Somalian coast

what does the Navy do now?

[peace13]

42. My guess is...pretty much whatever it wants to. n/t

[targetpractice]

48. Isn't it Maersk's decision re: what happens next?

It's their ship, their lifeboat, and their employee in international waters.

I know it's not the policy of the US government to negotiate, but isn't this a private matter? The US Navy is playing a support role, right?

What if Maersk chooses to pay the $2M ransom? They are in a bad spot because of the potential PR fallout.

Maersk's interests are not necessarily aligned with those of the US government.

"Sorry officer, we've decided to not press charges."

Someone's gonna have egg on their face at the end of the day.

[cali]

54. I'm sure Maersk in cooperating fully with the U.S. military

And as long as the captain is rescued, no one will have egg on their face.

[targetpractice]

56. Right... but who do you think is calling the shots?

Is the US military acting in an advisory role?

[mountainvue]

49. If the Bainbridge and Halyburton have eyes on that

lifeboat then how close are they? And where is the Boxer? It occured to me that if they let the boat go ashore then Maersk could pay the ransom and the US can say that they did not negotiate with terrorists.:shrug:

[jpak]

61. SEALs could attach tow lines to the lifeboat at night

There are many "hang on" loops attached to the hull of the lifeboat. A team of divers could quietly clip tow lines to each side near the bow and tow them away from shore - with *long* lines.

It would be difficult for the pirates to fire on the tow boat - they would expose themselves to counter fire and waste much ammo trying...

[MadMaddie]

46. Ummm...we do have highly trained Navy Seals don't we?

WTF? They send sailors?

This makes the US look weak being stood up by common thugs.

Now I have a question:

Ummm what if the inflatable was deflated? All of them would have to swim right? Just askin...
:shrug:

[alarimer]

51. The French tried to rescue someone from pirates the other day

in just this situation and the hostage ended up dead.

This is a no-win situation. There is no way this is going to end with the hostage alive unless the pirates surrender. Even paying ransom is not going to guarantee his life. And going in with guns blazing is not going to work either.

[TorchTheWitch]

68. It isn't an inflatable

These are hard shell enclosed crafts that hold up to 50 people with fuel, water and provisions. Check out the photo up thread.

[MadMaddie]

69. Hmmm...that could pose a problem with my plan!!

:banghead:

[TorchTheWitch]

70. quite a nifty little vessel

We've sure come a long way from the wooden rowboats of old. Unfortunately, it's so nifty it makes it far more difficult to rescue the captain.

Although I'm sure a SEAL team could do a successful operation I suspect they haven't been sent in because that would pose a problem for all the other hostages currently being held by Somali pirates. They've proven they aren't afraid to blow away hostages and retaliation is probably likely if we wipe out the ones holding this American.

[DainBramaged]

52. A couple of 'pirates' hold a Nation hostage. Some message we send to the other pirates.

Sink the fucking boat and have swimmers in the water to assist the Captain. The others can rot in hell. You mean to tell me Seals can't pull off an operation and end this?

[chrisa]

58. Without killing the captain? Not likely.

[doctor jazz]

59. Give them 24 hours to release the Cap or Mogadisho gets a nuke.

I'm serious. I know we'd never have the balls to threaten and/or do it but I sure as hell would if I were the prez.

[cali]

62. wtf??? That's disgusting. And it's a fucking heinous war crime.

[doctor jazz]

63. I keep forgetting...piracy is no crime if it's committed by underpriviliged assholes.

Thanks for reminding me.

edit...by the way, those scum criminal 'pirates' have families, one would presume. If they don't give a shit about them, I sure as hell don't. That "country" is just like a colony of killer bees...it needs to be eliminated.

[Alamuti Lotus]

67. You are mistaken, Cali

Wanting to nuke whole cities is just a sign of how dignified and civilized this fine gentleman is.

It's a shame the keyboard commandos are probably too stupid to appreciate how funny and ironic their bloodlust is.