Sunday School Teacher Murders 8-year old girl: Armchair Forensic Psychiatrists Check In Here.

[Mike 03]

Trying for one moment to put aside the sadness, shock, outrage and horror of the murder of Sandra Cantu, and examine it as objectively as possible, as a crime, it is a very unexpected aberration. At this morning's press conference, the Tracy PD said almost nothing. The only interesting observation made was that the crime happened very quickly, which suggests it was planned. It also happened in spite of the fact the suspect's entire family--daughter, grandparents--were home in her mobile home at the time, but saw nothing.

The other interesting thing that was said at the press conference is that the F.B.I. Behavioral Sciences unit is rushing to get to San Joaquin County as fast as they can because this case is such an anomaly.

I would really like to know what Melissa Huckabe thinks her motive was in executing this crime. This sort of crime is so rare that there is not even an F.B.I. classification for it, so far as I can find, unless it meets (some hybrid or combination of) the criteria for:

1. Argument/Conflict Murder (code 123) (aided by heavy doses of paranoia or mental illness).

2. Some sort of "revenge" killing (code 125) stemming, again, in this specific case, from a delusion or imagined scenario in which the victim had somehow offended the suspect or her daughter.

3. The one that intrigues me in this case is "Religion-Inspired Homicide" (127.02), where the killer receives some indication--delusional--that God is telling her to kill this person. This can be combined with the above 2 examples, so someone who bears a grudge against the victim can create a scenario in which she imagines God telling her to kill this person.

4. There's also a classification that's kind of like a diagnostic wastebasket, where you toss in any murder you can't rationally explain, called: Nonspecific Motive Murder (code 126)

I have this totally speculative feeling that Sandra Cantu triggered in Huckabe, for whatever reason, confirmation of her failure as a parent or a disappointment to her own parents, or ignited some religious conflict within herself. She saw her as a threat, either to herself or her daughter, or objectification of some aspect of her life that she couldn't stand to see coming over every day to play with her daughter (i.e., having some intense symbolic value).

It will be vital to find out:

Huckabe's history of mental issues, and whether she could be an undiagnosed schizophrenic or was under the influence of other drugs (legal ir illegal).

Whether Cantu was a parishioner at the church Huckabe's grandfather pastored, or to what extent Cantu and her family were religious, and what importance Huckabe placed on this.

We have been told virtually nothing, which makes speculation at this point futile, but nevertheless this case has some unique characteristics that make it (IMO) important to follow and understand.

Acknowleging up front that it's way too early, I'd be interested in any other opinions on this crime, why it happened and what its psychiatric/forensic significance might be.

[Hannah Bell]

1. do we *know* that huckabe did it? she was just arrested, i didn't realize

a verdict had been rendered.

so i'm not sure what the point of armchair psychoanalysis via the internet is.

[Mike 03]

16. No, we obviously don't know. She is presumed innocent until proven otherwise.

In fact, she could be taking the fall for her grandfather. That is another theory that is worth considering.

It even would coincide with the interviews she provided to the media on Friday.

[Pamela Troy]

2. If She is actually responsible my guess is

that the child was killed accidentally and the woman panicked. My other guess is that death was the result of suffocation or a blow to the head.

[Duer 157099]

7. This was my first guess too, assuming she's really involved

Also, there are certainly cases of mothers who kill their children for various (delusional) reasons, and it's possible that this woman considered the child like her own. I mean, could be.

Who knows at this point.

:shrug:

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. My first guess is the same as yours. After that, until facts emerge, I don't have a clue.

[mike_c]

3. sunday school teacher! sunday school teacher!

What is relevant about pointing out that the alleged killer teaches sunday school? Virtually every post and news story I've seen about this case emphasizes this aspect of the accused killer's personal history. Does it actually have any relevance to the crime, or is it just media profiling?

[leftstreet]

5. I noticed that, too

It's a just an M$M gotcha.

[The Straight Story]

6. People have a societal view that people who teach sunday school are different

than everyone else.

We only expect car mechanics and janitors, etc, to hurt people....

[DCKit]

15. Especially Janitors:

[aquart]

9. Because we impute extra purity and virtue to Sunday School teachers.

Like Colbert.

[Berry Cool]

14. Exactly. It is a media "selling point" for the story.

Murder alone can be a compelling story, but it becomes more so when:

--the victim seems entirely innocent (like a child)

--the suspected killer is from some class of people we don't expect to be murderers: females and religious people figuring largely among that number.

In this case, we have an adorable little girl who may have been killed by a female Sunday school teacher. The wheel spins and comes up three cherries. Jackpot--at least as far as the media are concerned.

For the story to sell, it's important to emphasize all three interesting aspects of the murder: innocent child victim, female suspect, religious suspect.

[aquart]

33. Yeah. Man bites dog.

Anything that goes against expectation arouses interest.

Of course, at the rate "religious" people have been committing crimes, that may cease to be a selling point as a mere dog bites man.

[jesus_of_suburbia]

24. I'm agnostic, but I don't like the profiling either. There are crazy folk of all persuasions.

[Mopar151]

39. Profiling may not be what you think.

Read "Mindhunter" http://www.amazon.com/Mind-Hunter-Inside-Elite-Serial/dp/0671528904 - written by the FBI agent who developed the science of profiling.

[alfredo]

28. Such positions within a community makes for a good cover. Sunday School

teachers are supposed to be above suspicion. Piety is a favorite cover for scoundrels.

[Mopar151]

34. Dude- look at post 27

You are so right on the piety thing. I know many humble and devout people of faith, and I'm fine with 'em. I got a pin around here for 10 years of Sunday School - with the Methodists, it was never worse than banal and boring. For me, it was just a bunch of crap that got in the way of my (still evolving) faith.

IMHO, there are 2 problems with bad religion - It provides really good cover and access to victims for scoundrels of all ilk, and it's like a supercharger for socio/psychopaths.

[alfredo]

36. It's like protective coloration. I found

that it is best to avoid those who desire power over others, or those who set themselves up as moral authorities.


"Tartuffe The Impostor." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tartuffe

[Mopar151]

38. I'm with ya.

In these parts, it's been hard to tell the players without a program for a LONG time.

[alfredo]

40. How many "Elmer Gantry's" and pederast priest does it take for the people

to get a clue.

[jbnow]

35. Big deal when they are in charhe of kids. We'd hear same

emphasis if it was t-ball coach, scout leader, school bus driver, any teacher.

The Sunday school adds the special surprise of ~good religious person~

[panader0]

4. Whatever you call it, she is fucking nuts.

[LisaL]

10. "The crime happened very quickly" does not suggest it was

planned. The suspect could have gotten angry at something the child did, hit the child, etc.

[NorthernSpy]

11. Is it possible that the child's death was originally an accident?

That the accused backed over her, or something like that, and then sought to conceal the body?

[LisaL]

12. Anything is possible at this point because we don't know the

results of the autopsy.

[amyrose2712]

13. Just curious, are you studying criminal psychopathology or

something of the like? or just watch a lot of crime shows?:hi:

[Mike 03]

17. No, I never watch crime shows, because they are so irresponsible and poorly informed.

But I did research and write about forensic psychiatry for about ten years. It really made me very depressed, so I'm happy to not be doing that any longer.

Thanks for asking.

:hi:

[amyrose2712]

25. That's pretty interesting, actually...

I took a few classes on the topic in college.

[Born_A_Truman]

18. FYI=It's spelled Huckaby

FYI-many news outlets used the wrong picture of another Melissa Huckaby from a MySpace page. The one above is the correct MH--her mug shot.

I am interested in motive here as well. I think we'll find she was alot like Casey Anthony as far as lying goes. I am not ready to accept an accident and coverup.

[madinmaryland]

20. I was wondering if she was related to Mike Huckabee.

Guess not.

[AWB]

41. Wrong picture

I broke the story about the wrong pictures yesterday morning.

http://www.fortwaynenews.com/index.php/2009/04/11/when-media-doesnt-check-the-facts-the-sandra-cantu-case/

This poor woman has been receiving death threats, and is afraid to even leave her house. Only one media outlet, the Post Chronicle has actually apologized for doing this. MSM strikes another low-blow to their reputations.

[LisaL]

42. Actually according to your link it's a correct photo.

[Hanse]

19. It was a mob hit.

The kid was gonna talk.

[Politicalboi]

21. If this is the killer

She knew to hide the body just like Casey Anthony so the "crazy" title doesn't go with it. If it had been an accident you don't hide the body. And especailly don't shove it in a suitcase and throw it in a pond. Who knows the girl may have been alive in the suitcase till she drowned. I hope not but it is possible. And for someone to do this, I see this as a death penalty case and I hope they get it SOON!. Either by the needle or someone else in jail that has nothing to lose.

[rucky]

22. Rumor has it she had her own kid taken away by the state, recently.

Would that change anything?

[Mike 03]

23. Disclaimer: Yes, the suspect is presumed to be innocent until proven otherwise.

Yes, yes, yes... That is why I refer to her as the suspect. She is INNOCENT of the murder until prove guilty by a jury or judge, or chooses to plead guilty...

[TahitiNut]

26. The story jerks people around by our bigotries and biases.

All the hand-wringing about how most crimes are committed by "___________" seems to ignore the degree to which such assumptions, even in investigating crimes, leads to far more "___________" being arrested and prosecuted than "non-___________" -- even innocents. (Check out the Innocence Project demographics.)

Every favorable bias has a flip-side that's prejudice.

:shrug:

[Mopar151]

27. Here is a very similar case!

http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Death-Hunt-Serial-Killer/dp/0684194058

Is a link to a book about an eerilly similar crime. Excduse my rotten typing, but I literally grew up in the middle of this serial; murder cluster, and I know many of the people in the book well.

How well? I need to get very drunk now, and can't (meds), it's gonna take a lot of hugs and some pills to sleep tonight, just thinking about it.

Summarize my connections before I break down ...

Theresa Fenton is the daughter of, and brother to, longtime friends of mine in our local sports car club.
Katie Thayer's dad Charlie worked with my Dad for years, and even sold him a snowblower.
I went to school with Eva Morse - even danced with her in jr high. I know her brothers , know her daughter Carrie - and a lifelong friend of mine was one of the loggers who found her body.

Eddie champain, Jr.is the real name of "Bordeau" in the book - in the opinion of most of the folks I know, including a friend from the club who went to school with him, is that he is NOT the killer - the dude is just TOO WIERD - like mowing the lawn in a gold Speedo! My great-uncle managed the First National where his father cut meat.
Some of us figure that Eva was done in by Edwin Townes - a serial rapist who: lived in Charlestown under an alias, dumped 2 rape victims in the same area Eva was found, and was convicted of murdering a 14 y/o girl in VT and concreting her into the foundation of his house.

Gary Schafer's uncle was my Dad's boss for several years, and was a big cheese in the "Christadelphian" church where Gary taught Sunday School.

I need a hug - Michelle?

[mia]

29. Could have been an accident. When my daughter was five years

old she got into an old suitcase and it snapped shut. Her younger sister came to get me and by the time I managed to get the suitcase open my five year old was gasping for breath.

This was the first thing I thought of when I read the story.
But why cover this up if it truly was an accident?

[LisaL]

31. Well I doubt most people would dump the suitcase in a pond

if the child accidentally got into it and suffocated.
Jeez.

[mitchum]

30. I call for a ban on Sunday school...Sunday school fetishists be damned!

[LisaL]

32. I think the police don't have a clue about the motive either.

From what I've read.
I wonder how the child died.

[ljm2002]

37. Okay here's my theory...

...and let me begin by saying it's just a theory, based on an assumption of her guilt, which of course is not a given.

Here are the facts about Huckaby's story, as reported at sfgate.com:

Huckaby had previously told The Tracy Press that Sandra visited her home on the day of her disappearance to play with her 5-year-old daughter. But Huckaby said she'd turned Sandra away because her daughter needed to pick up her toys and Sandra went to another friend's home. Huckaby also said she had left her suitcase in the driveway that day, and that it was missing.

Sheneman confirmed early Saturday that the suitcase that held Sandra's body belonged to Huckaby.

My theory is that Sandra did come to play there, and the two girls made a mess, and maybe Sandra or the daughter sassed her, and the mother freaked out and whaled on one or both of them, possibly accidentally killing Sandra. Then she disposed of the body.

It would be interesting to know if they have talked to her daughter.

It would not surprise me if meth or alcohol was a factor as well.

Nor would it surprise me to be totally wrong :-) -- but you wanted theories as to motive, that's mine.

[ecstatic]

43. Maybe she's covering for her husband?

:shrug: You gotta admit, female murderers are not common. :hide: