US religious Right concedes defeat

[hyphenate]

I was going to post this in R/T, but it's more political than religious.

_______________________________________________________________________
America's religious Right has conceded that the election of US President Barack Obama has sealed its defeat in the cultural war with permissiveness and secularism.

By Alex Spillius in Washington
Last Updated: 4:18PM BST 10 Apr 2009

Leading evangelicals have admitted that their association with George W. Bush has not only hurt the cause of social conservatives but contributed to the failure of the key objectives of their 30-year struggle.

James Dobson, 72, who resigned recently as head of Focus on the Family - one of the largest Christian groups in the country - and once denounced the Harry Potter books as witchcraft, acknowledged the dramatic reverse for the religious Right in a farewell speech to staff.

“We tried to defend the unborn child, the dignity of the family, but it was a holding action,” he said.

“We are awash in evil and the battle is still to be waged. We are right now in the most discouraging period of that long conflict. Humanly speaking, we can say we have lost all those battles.” (OP note--We're in this 'discouraging period' because of THEM, and their lunatic fringe!)

Despite changing the political agenda for a generation, and helping push the Republicans to the Right, evangelicals have won only minor victories in limiting the availability of abortion. Meanwhile the number of states permitting civil partnerships between homosexuals is rising, and the campaign to restore prayer to schools after 40 years - a decision that helped create the Moral Majority - has got nowhere.

<snip>

Unease is rising that a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country will soon, like northern Europe, become “post-Christian”. (OP note--NOT 'post-Christian' as they think:
'progressive Christian' is more in keeping with the truth.)

Recent surveys have suggested that the American religious landscape has shifted significantly. A study by Trinity College in Connecticut found that 11 per cent fewer Americans identify themselves as Christian than 20 years ago. Those stating no religious affiliation or declaring themselves agnostic has risen from 8.2 per cent in 1990 to 15 per cent in 2008.

Rest of article: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/5136050/US-religious-Right-concedes-defeat.html

[Skittles]

1. FYI, "permissiveness" = tolerance

[babylonsister]

2. I saw this story earlier but I just despise the source. That is our Drudge. nt

[Warpy]

3. At least he knows he failed

but what he needs to realize is that he was wrong.

Oh, I don't mean to say he's wrong for his cockeyed belief system. He's wrong for trying to make it into civil law in a pluralistic country with a secular government. He was wrong for trying to force his beliefs onto people who don't share them and don't want to share them.

Until he does that, he's going to stay a bitter old man.

[Mopar151]

15. That's a bitter old pervert to you, pal

not to mention an animal abuser and facilitator for pedophiles.

We're talkin a "man" who beat his Dachsund to show it who was boss.

[hyphenate]

23. I agree with you on that

My position is don't preach to me. If I wanted to listen to all the "god" stuff, I would have stayed in the Catholic church. Instead of letting my own experiences create my belief system, they wanted blind devotion to a set of beliefs that I could not, in good conscience, support.

Now, I've had Wiccan friends, Mormon friends, New Age friends, spirituality friends, Hindi friends, Buddhist friends, et al, and one nutcase fundie EX-friend. The fact remains: none of the others tried to force me into something I couldn't respect. So who shows more rational thinking--the fundie or the New Agers? It was the EX-friend looney tuner who voted for GWB--both times, I'll have you know!--and who talked incessantly about "revelations," "armageddon," "the end times," how Satan tries to trick us by placing fossils in the ground to make it look like we've been around longer than 10,000 years, and more just ridiculous crap that makes New Agers look like Rhodes Scholars.

[saltpoint]

4. Dobson and all the rest of the fundie nutbags were in the Bush swamp up

to their necks.

They can thanks themselves for their weakened state.

Here's to their continuing dissolution.

[sutz12]

5. Hey, Jimmy Dee...here's a hint....

If you really want to "defend the dignity of the family" I have a couple of suggestions.

Fight for better pay and more jobs, against the corporate assholes that used your people as shills to destroy them.

Fight for universal healthcare.

Stop the war on gay people.

The list could go on.

[liberalhistorian]

24. Exactly! And, as a liberal Christian, I say that that is the essence

of true Christianity and what God wants us to do, to ensure that all, regardless of status, wallet size, gender, race, sexual orientation, etc., are cared for and loved. But oh, no, to them that'd be "godless socialism", and the like, when socialism is actually much closer to Christ's vision in the New Testament than any of these prosperity gospel hatin' on the poor free market holy rollers would ever admit or even recognize.

[Kerrytravelers]

6. Good. Riddance.

[rwheeler31]

7. Will they ever apologize for their idiocy?

[PassingFair]

8. Victory is OURS!

But I'm late to the Coliseum....

:sarcasm:

[islandmkl]

9. they. are. lying.

those fundies aren't going anywhere...

[bdamomma]

39. I don't think so either, just slittering under their rocks again.

[leftstreet]

10. They're being overtaken by the Warren-esque Federal Trough Feeders

Rick Warren, Joel Osteen, the megachurchy types will be feeding on the massive Faith Based Initiatives $$.

The new 'tent' revival is all the feelgood new agey stuff. You're even starting to see supposed 'liberals' defending this crap.

[madrchsod]

12. new age billy sunday and father coglin...

they are enriching themselves on the blood of the local churches ....

[madrchsod]

11. interesting article...

it seems there are those who would rather practice christ`s work than elect politicians. i think that is what christians are supposed to do.

[CoffeeCat]

13. We might take this as good news...

...because their flawed and bizarre agenda is going the way of the dinosaurs (which by the way were ridden by man! ;) ).

However, these types are really bonkers right now. Being in PTA and other groups in my suburb, I know some of these people.
They're kind, good family people and I enjoy their company. I part ways with them when it comes to religion, and I hear
what many of them are saying.

They believe that Christians will soon be rounded up and persecuted in this country. They truly are afraid. They think
Obama's latest remarks about the US no longer being a "Christian nation" was a signal that the Satanists are taking over.

They are batshit crazy right now. It's...dividing our country further. Articles like this will continue to fan the
flames and make them even more scared and feeling as if they are fighting the devil from inside a corner.

Stuff like this creates misunderstandings and further extremism in this country--because now these people feel that they're
backs are against the wall, and some of them are not the most stable people around.

[hyphenate]

26. I have for a while now

thought that these people were going to bring us to a war to take over Jerusalem and put the Israelis back into power in order to set into motion the countdown to the apocalypse and therefore, the Rapture. According to the fundies, the Jewish people have to be in control there to make that particular condition met. Oh, and we must rescue the rest of the holy land from those horrible, horrible Muslims! :sarcasm: I really have a difficult time taking these people seriously because they come up with the most bigoted, intolerant rantings ever, making themselves look more and more ludicrous all the time. They are not followers of Christ in any way, they are followers of their own greed, intolerance and hatred, and JC would probably have shown others how these phonies fail to live up to the standards he preached.

[Bluenorthwest]

30. Well the President did not say what you say he said

He did not say 'we are no longer a Christian nation' he said we are not one. As in we are and always were secular. President OBama did not say that we were and are no longer a Christian nation. We never were such a thing.
What I think you fail to understand is that there is no message that will not frighten them. I mean, the President is a rather open Christian, even opposing equal marriage rights for GLBT people and saying that he does so due to his faith. He invites their leaders to speak, he consults with several of the same ministers Bush consulted with, and they still fear him. He is one of them, yet they fear him. Moderating or censoring stories about the religious right will not change what they believe, for they are not rational, they are 'believers'. Speaking calmly to them tells them that the devil has charming ways. Speaking with anger to them tells them that the devil is filled with rage. Worshiping with them tells them that the devil can assume pleasing shapes....
Obama is far too Christianist for me. And yet for them, he will never be enough of a Christian, for they define Christian as white and Republican.

[CoffeeCat]

34. Yes, Obama did say that...

Most recently, Obama said that we are "not a Christian nation".

However, in 2007, he said "We are no longer a Christian nation." I did classify this remark as part of his most recent
remarks. I was wrong...because he said them two years ago. However, he did say those "no longer" remarks.

This week, Christians are in an uproar about his most recent remarks in turkey "We are not a Christian nation" but they
are also using his 2007 "We are no longer a Christian nation" remarks to justify more irrational thoughts.

So yes, Obama did say that.

And I totally agree with what you said about these types. I just spend Easter with several of them, and it
was appalling.

[Bluenorthwest]

37. Well if he said it, then both he and yourself are free

to point out to me when we were a Christian nation. According to those who founded the place, it was not then a Christain nation. So what point in time do you think he meant?

[CoffeeCat]

45. I didn't say we were once a Christian nation...

Obama's the one who said "We are no longer a Christian nation".

Who knows...maybe he bungled what he was trying to say.

I certainly don't believe that we are or were a Christian nation.

[bdamomma]

40. and the Fox News does not help either.

backs against the wall indeed.

[Wapsie B]

14. MMMMMMmmmmmmmmmm stuffed fetus grilled over an open flame of burning bibles and crucifixes.

Makes me hungry! Think I'll have a flag burning after lunch to celebrate.

[BeFree]

17. Now that's flamebait

You can edit it or.....

[Wapsie B]

18. Yeah but only to a freep.

[47of74]

16. They have only themselves to blame

They sought to twist the message of Jesus Christ to enable them to dominate and control others. Not to spread the message of peace and love for all. And now their twisted little empire is collapsing in upon itself. And they have only themselves to blame for that.

[MajorChode]

19. The "Moral Majority" is neither

I really get tired of those pricks associating fundamental religious views with "morality". The two things aren't synonomous and in many cases are exactly opposite.

Every couple of years the same assholes concede defeat and then they reinvent some new organization with new objectives, but it's always essentially the same bullshit. Ever since the Civil Rights Act of 1964 these pricks have been preaching about the moral decay of the US, when the reality is they are the ones most responsible for it in the first place.

The real motives behind those who found these right-wing Christian political movements is simply to enrich themselves.

[sakabatou]

20. Huzzuh!

So can you religious nuts stop getting in the way of the government now?

[Adsos Letter]

21. Unease is rising that a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country

...this is where they make thier first mistake. The country was founded with a commitment to religious liberty; a different construct from a "Christian America."

If they could actually figure this out, then many of them might come around to a different approach to what it means to be an American.

[BlooInBloo]

22. Psst - hey Dobson! We're all just waiting very patiently for you to die...

And before you do, I'd like you to know that everything you fuckers have worked for all your lives has FAILED.

Happy Easter, fuckers.

[LynnTheDem]

25. No worries, Dobson. A whole entire nation of people feel as you do.

They're called the Taliban.

I suggest you go live with them, where you'll be ever so happy.

[Jawja]

27. "and helping push the Republicans to the Right"

No, they pushed the GOP off the edge. They haven't learned anything from their recent defeats where they were swept from power; they are still going to use religion and wedge issues to try to stage a comeback. They smell an opening with the gains for Gays and Lesbians in marriage rights.

[Obamarama]

28. Dobson has reitred? Good riddance to bad rubbish.

I know there will be another evangelical cockroach at the helm, but at least we won't have to hear the name James Dobson much anymore. My BP would always go up a couple notches when I'd hear his name.

[ellie]

29. Thank God Almighty!

They over-reached, like they always do. I imagine it's hard to convince people that God hates them if they don't tow the evangelical line.

[X_Digger]

31. Thank Dog!

I live in the land of mega-churches (Central Texas) and they scare me with their almost separatist attitudes- many of the faithful have some kind of service seven days a week.

The only thing I worry about is that if they feel they have lost, and therefore have nothing else to lose, how more radical will they become?

[Hugin]

32. The final nail was their crusade against Highly Absorbent Sea Creatures.

That was the seventh sign of their end.

Sponge Bob isn't what he appears to be!

[Starry Messenger]

33. I'll believe it when I see it.

A lot of damage has been done that won't be undone for years. There are several clones of FOF on the regional level. They have successfully turned their brand of hate into corner store franchises. Don't be fooled.

[Wapsie B]

35. Who are those groups?

I think a lot of people would love to know.

[NeedleCast]

36. A victory for reason

It's slow, but we're winning.

[havocmom]

38. If 11% fewer Americans identify themselves as Christan, the Xian Right should take some blame

Their version of Christianity has lowered the bar to the point that many people don't see the point at all.

When even Jimmy Carter had to admit it was time to check into a new church, the Fundies need to look at the fact that their brand of Christianity left a lot of people, not the other way round. Cater is a man who takes his faith pretty seriously. His church left him.

Some people won't bother to go looking for a Christian church at all with all the shit the Xians have pulled in the past 30 years.

And many are finding they can have a personal relationship with the divine rather than sign up for some dogma in some church and deal with middle-men.

Spirit is everywhere. Don't need some building with a collection plate to be a good person and do good things in life. Some people do not need the carrot of heaven to enforce decent behavior with their fellow humans.

[redqueen]

41. "a nation founded - in the view of evangelicals - purely as a Christian country"

What is wrong with these people?

Why do some people think they can somehow magically just daydream their own version of reality into existence?

Sheesh.

[Taverner]

42. Both Newsweek and the Telegraph are writing the RR's obit

But I wouldn't write them off just yet...

Hate always resurfaces somehow...

[derby378]

43. One unintended consequence...

...is that we may see the rise of more intentional communities such as Charles Meade's End Time Ministries that exhibit increased behaviors of xenophobia, isolation, authoritarianism, and finally outright madness.

I am not looking forward to another Jonestown or Waco.

[Goblinmonger]

44. So why is it OK

to bash the conservative Christians for their beliefs? I thought there was an outcry from Christians here to stop belittling people for their beliefs. Seems like this is belittling people for their beliefs.

1. My guess is 2 posts before the No True Scotsman Fallacy.
2. Yeah, sure, I get the "they affect policy" argument but it isn't just the religious right that putting religion into government it is all religion and I should have a right to call out all religion, then.
3. My guess is 5 posts before an "atheist fundamentalist" post.