WHY did a private corporate ship need the US Navy????

[SmileyRose]

I keep being told the "librul socialist goobermint" is the root of all evil and we would all be richer and of perfect health if we stopped relying the "librul socialist goobermint" and let the corporations solve everything with the great profit motive of privatized everything.

But when a big ass corporate giant gets in deep shit they start screaming the US Navy rather than Blackwater USA???

Color me confused.

I mean, I'm glad the captain is safe. I'd like to see everyone in international waters safe and am not sure how to feel about blowing the pirates straight to hell (they were the bad guys but they WERE people and somebody somewhere must have loved them) -- but if privatized everything is the answer (and it obviously isn't) then why didn't Bush Inc get private security on commercial ships a long time ago?

And why are we putting Government paid federal marshalls on PRIVATE airline flights to protect the profits of private commercial airlines? Why can't they hire Blackwater on their own dime if sheeple feeling safe from bottled water and perfume is what they want?

[FrenchieCat]

1. You do know that this was a ship carrying humanitarian supplies to Kenya,

Right?

the 17,000-ton ship, which was carrying a load of humanitarian aid to Kenya, Quinn said.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/us_world/2009/04/08/2009-04-08_somali_pirates_seize_usflagged_cargo_ship_with_21_american_sailors_says_diplomat.html

[ddeclue]

2. There is a concerted DISINFO campaign to spin the pirates as "good guys" and the US Navy and the aid

ship sailors as tools of the evil corporatocracy..

damn the facts full speed ahead..

:eyes:

[ColbertWatcher]

34. I haven't seen any campaign to portray the pirates as good guys. n/t

[Posteritatis]

43. You must be new here

;)

Seriously, look at some of the threads here. There's some pretty fervent, explicitly pro-pirate crap getting posted.

[ColbertWatcher]

45. Unless you can provide links to back up your claim, I'm afraid I cannot believe it. n/t

[Posteritatis]

47. Try, well, all the piracy threads lately? (nt)

[ColbertWatcher]

49. Still no links? n/t

[Posteritatis]

50. Try the one labelled "General Discussion" slightly above this

Christ, you're asking me to provide evidence that the sky is blue. It's not my problem if you refuse to read every piracy thread on this site.

[SmileyRose]

8. I understand all that.

And I do appreciate that it puts the rescue in a different light. I really do. (though I don't believe the entire cargo was humanitarian aid) It's also, I believe, the first time the US military has gotten directly involved ( I could be wrong on that). Likely one of the reasons Obama felt compelled to do so in this instance was media coverage.

I guess my post is really a questioning of why, if big corporations actually believe government help is such a bad thing, then why haven't commercial boats in pirated waters already escorted by private security forces?

I guess I'm just looking at the BIG picture and asking about the hypocrisy.

[leftstreet]

3. Good questions

Why indeed?

:shrug:

[Political Tiger]

4. Actually, the US Navy was founded in 1794 to fight piracy. n/t

[MADem]

5. EXCUSE me???? That was an American asset, hijacked, and American citizens, brutalized, on the high

seas. That was an AMERICAN CITIZEN kidnapped.

That citizen deserves the same consideration as a tourist kidnapped in Egypt, or a state department worker held hostage in Teheran.

Good grief.

"Bush, Inc" is no longer in charge, either.

We haven't had a serious problem with Somali hijackers to this point--others have, but not us. I think those idiots thought the ALABAMA was flying under a different flag, and fucked up. They paid for their mistake, three of them with their lives.

And, perhaps you were asleep for the last eight years, but the purpose of the air marshal program isn't to protect airline assets, it's to protect GOVERNMENT assets--like the House and Senate, the Pentagon, the White House....are you getting the Nahn Wun Wun drift, there?

[Captain Hilts]

17. I didn't think that was difficult to understand. I guess it is for some. nt

[SmileyRose]

20. Again

I have no problem with using taxpayer support to help anyone anywhere that we can quite frankly. If protecting American cargo ships with military assets benefits America as a whole, or even cargo ships from other place fine with me. But then I'm not a small government, cut taxes, privatize everything bullshit artist who just wants someone else to pay to protect my profits.

No, it isn't that hard to understand at all.

[MADem]

36. Uh, that bullshit artist left office in January. So what's your frigging gripe? NT

[SmileyRose]

39. I was unaware all of them held any office.

RW hate radio, Fox News, Tea Baggers, Newt, Town Hall, some of my co-workers and neighbors, pretty much most of Metro Atlanta, pretty much all of Metro Cincinnati Ohio, at least half the small business owners I know in Michigan......

Tax cut tax cut tax cut, school vouchers, eeeeek socialized medicine, privatize social security, privatize privatize privatize, deregulate deregulate deregulate, government is bad, government always fails - someone snags a FEMA card and uses it to buy a plasma, or someone has a battle with a bonehead at the DMV and we have to listen to "and we want Congress to be in charge of our medical care????" blah blah blah.

Yet when their house is on fire, boom, 911 !!!! Where's the fricken goverment!!! Or when the street lights are out of order, or when their baby is born with expensive medical problems not covered by their "privatized is gawd" medical insurance - you bet your ass they run straight to the government for community help.

Not to mention the Republican idiots in Congress and Senate who suddenly believe in "just say no". THEY certainly didn't leave office in January.

This situation is tailor made for reminding the whole pile of those bullshitters that they do indeed need a government that works. They benefit greatly from taxpayer funded government programs, and bitching because they are expected to pay just like the rest of us for the benefits just makes them jerks.

[MADem]

46. HA! We are separated by a common language!!

When you said

...small government, cut taxes, privatize everything bullshit artist who just wants someone else to pay to protect my profits...

I thought you were talking about one particular bullshit artist....DUMBYA!!!!!!

:rofl:

[cali]

6. um, you might consider educating yourself

both about Americans imperiled overseas and about air safety.

[SmileyRose]

15. Actually

I have no problem with government and military interventions to assist and protect Americans around the globe - or really anyone who needs help for that matter. I have no problem with Fed Air Marshalls either (not because 911 but because rarely, unfortunately, our fellow passengers can be fucking idiotic rude drunk and dangerous SOB's) - I don't even have a a problem with what I consider the fact that "air safety" on the taxpayer dime isn't to keep me personally alive if I fly, but to give the illusion of safety so people buy airline tickets.


Where my questions come in, is why would those who think my view of taxpayer supported services to enhance all of our daily lives is wrong - well why would they turn to those same taxpayer supported services without a second thought?

[ColbertWatcher]

7. Interesting question. It seems there are a lot of private corporations ...

... that rely on the government for their security. (Oil corps, agriculture corps, etc.)

I wonder if all of them are up to date with their taxes?

Oh the other hand, I recall a while back when there were quite a few http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maquiladoras">U.S. corporations doing business in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciudad_Ju%C3%A1rez">foreign countries that could have used a little military intervention, but never asked for any help.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

9. I dunno, the same reason a private citizen needs the police?

[SmileyRose]

10. But see

I don't understand why a small government privatize everything conservative would call the cops, or the fire department etc etc etc.

[ddeclue]

12. Um because your analogy is totally flawed?

The ship was hauling relieft supplies for starving people in Africa, hardly "small government" stuff.

:eyes:

[ColbertWatcher]

23. That doesn't make any sense. n/t

[ddeclue]

29. Yes it does but your reply doesn't explain your comprehension problem.

[ColbertWatcher]

33. Fair enough.

ddeclue Sun Apr-12-09 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. Um because your analogy is totally flawed?

The ship was hauling relieft supplies for starving people in Africa, hardly "small government" stuff.

Are you saying that hauling relief supplies is work for "big government"???

[stillcool]

11. well...to be fair..

when you start screaming for the U.S. Navy..how do you know you're not getting Blackwater? I remember reading that this ship is owned by a company that has contracts with the Defense Department. Wouldn't it be funny if they were running guns?

[SmileyRose]

26. I don't think it's gotten that bad yet, but your point is taken.

It's my understanding after the mess of Vietnam they had so few people joining the military they pretty much had to outsource non-essentials functions like food prep, carpentry, plumbing etc. But then I'm not real versed on military things and have to go by whatever someone tells me (which is more often than not a lie, even in the MSM)

[stillcool]

31. the number of private security corporations..

is staggering. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Private_Military_Corporations/list_of_PMCs As is our military footprint across the globe. No one knows exactly how many bases we have on foreign soil but the number is said to be in the 1,000 range. That's a lot of personnel. And these corporations are multi-national. Seems to me our military is multi-national. I'm not sure at all whose interests they work for. And in some cases, I wonder if any of them know.

[mitchum]

13. That IS the true purpose of the US military (despite all of the sweet sounding jingoistic horseshit)

[gizmo1979]

14. We could have just sent the Seals.

It was a bit much.

[Cali_Democrat]

16. One of the Navy's very first missions was to stop piracy

Mainly along the Barbary Coast.

Read your history.

[SmileyRose]

24. I knew this

which makes the mantra of low or no taxes, small government and privatized everything that much more of a head scratcher.

I think we need to use situations like this to show the utter bullshit behind that conservative mantra for what it is. Government works very well at many things - and big corporate America knows it. The idiot teabaggers know it too.

[seabeyond]

18. why??? does a mountain climber need rescuing... wtf? n/t

[rateyes]

19. It's damned good to know that if I ever find myself in a similar situation

in another country, that my country is going to move heaven and earth to come to my rescue.

[SmileyRose]

22. Me too. But then you and I believe in a government that works.

What I don't understand is why the small government types would ever call for help rather than just pay their private bodyguards and paramilitary squad.

[ColbertWatcher]

25. The principles of these "small government types" changes with the winds. n/t

[janx]

27. Small government types?

SmileyRose, you're using so much jargon that I can't even understand what your question is.

[janx]

21. "private corporate"

define, please. ;-)

[bushmeister0]

28. It's a good question, but I think the point you're missing is that we own the oceans.

Our empire is maintained by the US Navy.

Any disruption of the normal transit of commerce on the seven seas is our problem.

Note, our recent successful efforts in the previously pirate-ridden Malacca Strait:

AFP:

"The Malacca sea-lane carries about 40 percent of the world's trade, including a major part of the energy imports of China and Japan.

. . . US aid for Indonesia's anti-piracy efforts includes 15 high-speed response boats, some of which are based at Batam opposite Singapore at the most vulnerable choke-point in the straits.

Washington is also funding a tactical communications centre in Jakarta and a major radar system along the north Sumatran coast to better monitor suspect vessels."

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5htTpc_wt4ivPqkmatlSkCBCF5Q6A

If it wasn't for us, the Japanese would be in some deep doo doo, as 70% of their oil transits the Strait.

Any empire worth its salt protects its shipping. The Romans had a big problem with the Illyrians (modern day Albanians) until Caesar invaded the Balkans and shut the whole business down. (The modern Italians shill have probelms with Albanian pirates, though) Caesar himself was captured by Cilician pirates as a young man, in fact.

Once his ransom had been paid, he immediately jumped on a ship and tracked the pirates down, took all their ill-gotten gains as spoils of war and had the lot crucified, as he had joked he would when he was held by them.

Now, that's the way you deal with pirates!

[stillcool]

32. excellent point...

[NutmegYankee]

30. The Navy's mission is to protect American commerce.

These Private companies are part of our national economy, bringing in supplies or exported goods. It is the job of the navy to keep the seas safe for our commerce.

[mrfrapp]

35. It's an interesting point

When I first heard about this story I immediately assumed it would be another experiment in "disaster capitalism" and Blackwater or some similar company would get the no-bid contract. I'm pleasantly surprised therefore that this was handled in the correct way by a professional state run military.

Kudos to the US for handling an international incident in an appropriate manner, for the first time in eight years.

[dmallind]

37. Ermmm./... you want private corporations to be able to shoot people then? NT

[kwenu]

38. Why? To protect U.S. citizens. No one else has that capability in international waters.

[applegrove]

40. Love your sarcasm.

[Posteritatis]

41. Even for DU this is some impressive conclusion-yanking mind-reading

Either way, part of the mission of the US navy is explicitly to get involved when people pull shit like this.

[ShareTheWoods]

42. Because they are not allowed to arm themselves

Not even private arms for the crew. Ignorant and insane.

[HooptieWagon]

44. The US Navy will also come to the aid of yachtsmen .

A famous instance occurred back in the thirties. Noted yachtsman William Robinson was at anchor in the Galapagos aboard his 30' ketch, the Svaap, when he was stricken with appendicitus. A neighboring fishing vessel with long range radio (but no doctor) was able to reach a US Destroyer several hundred miles away which rushed to the scene to provide medical aid. The destroyer ferried Robinson and his wife back to US soil (Hawaii?) but the Svaap had to be left behind. She was occasionally tended to by visiting yachtsmen who pumped the bilge and checked anchor cables, but eventually was stolen by an Equadoran minor official who wrecked her soon after. Robinson later "repaid" the Navy by sharing his vast knowledge of the South Pacific Atolls with them during WW2.

However, the original role of the US Navy was to protect US merchant shipping and sailors, and the more recent role seems to be as protection and support of mobile air-bases (carriers), and underwater missle launch systems and their counters. Count me as being happy with the Navy's fine execution of their original role in rescuing Captain Phillips.

[opihimoimoi]

48. Private vessels are not allowed sniper shit and 50 cal weapons...

Our Navy is our Force of Power.

[doctor jazz]

51. If your private house catches fire you can call on the government's Fire Department.

...