Why We Don't Condemn Our Pirates -- Guest Post by K'naan

[bridgit]

'Can anyone ever really be for piracy? Outside of sea bandits, and young girls fantasizing of Johnny Depp, would anyone with an honest regard for good human conduct really say that they are in support of Sea Robbery?

Well, in Somalia, the answer is: it's complicated.

The news media these days has been covering piracy in the Somali coast with such lop-sided journalism, that it's lucky they're not on a ship themselves. It's true that the constant hijacking of vessels in the Gulf of Aden is a major threat to the vibrant trade route between Asia and Europe. It is also true that for most of the pirates operating in this vast shoreline, money is the primary objective.

But according to so many Somalis, the disruption of Europe's darling of a trade route, is just Karma biting a perpetrator in the butt. And if you don't believe in Karma, maybe you believe in recent history. Here is why we Somalis find ourselves slightly shy of condemning our pirates.

Somalia has been without any form of a functioning government since 1991. And although its failures, like many other toddler governments in Africa, sprung from the wells of post-colonial independence, bad governance and development loan sharks, the specific problem of piracy was put in motion in 1992.'

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-vazquez/on-pirates_b_186015.html

[Lisa0825]

1. Good luck with this...

I doubt many will read the article, especially those who think we should just "kill 'em all!"

[dem629]

3. And you read it all in one minute?

Damn those post timestamps!

[Lisa0825]

6. I had previously read the article.

asshat

[dem629]

8. Sure you did.

[Lisa0825]

13. Yes, as the link stated, it was a repost.

:eyes:

[arcadian]

29. You're just looking for a fight anywhere aren't you?

You should troll the waterfront's could be some scary pirates down there. :rofl:

[dem629]

31. You're back?

After getting your ass kicked so thoroughly in that completely nonsensical thread you started earlier, I'm surprised. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=389&topic_id=5441515

Oh, and after trolling a thread, it's not easy to shake that label by trying to apply it to others.

This sub-thread is all yours. Post all the crazy shit you want, like you did earlier.

And you can go back to mourning your beloved pirates.

[arcadian]

34. Bwahahahaha! That's all you got?

cheap personal insults. Your posts have zero substance. Seriously, you are watering this board down with your inane drivel. It would be most honorable if you simply terminated your user account. Don't worry, we won't miss you. :rofl::rofl::rofl:

[ddeclue]

2. THIS IS A DISINFO POST!

Somalia hasn't been a Western colony since 1960. It's been nearly half a century and it's STILL the West's fault?

:crazy:

And robbing someone else who is an innocent party is NOT justified because you've been robbed. Two wrongs don't make a right.

STOP shifting the blame and STOP trying to make these PIRATES out to be anything but what they are: KILLERS, ROBBERS, KIDNAPPERS and EXTORTIONISTS!

:argh:


and P.S. you give yourself away by calling THEM "OUR" pirates. They are NOT "our" pirates at all.

:argh:

[HeresyLives]

4. Cough.

Due to the clan-based organization of Somalia and the lack of a central government, combined with Somalia's location at the Horn of Africa, conditions were ripe for the growth of piracy in the early 1990s. Since the collapse of the state, boats illegally fishing in Somali waters were a common sight. Pirates at first were interested in securing the waters before businessmen and militias became involved. Acts of piracy temporarily subsided following the rise of the Islamic Courts Union in 2006. However, pirate activity began to increase after Ethiopia invaded Somalia in December 2006.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somali_pirate


Weekend Edition
February 13 - 15, 2009
Another U.S.-Sponsored Catastrophe
The Nightmare in Somalia
By LEN WENGRAF

U.S.-BACKED Ethiopian troops withdrew from their remaining positions in Somalia at the end of January, bringing an end to a two-year occupation carried out in the guise of the "war on terror."
The Ethiopian Army invaded Somalia in December 2006, overthrowing the Union of Islamic Courts (UIC) government and installing the Transitional Federal Government (TFG). Two years later, approximately 10,000 people have lost their lives, and 1.1 million Somalis were turned into refugees, the victims of Ethiopian occupiers and an ongoing civil war.
From the beginning, the TFG, though backed by the U.S., was weak, maintaining control in only a small area of the capital of Mogadishu, and some regions of western Somalia. Several thousand African Union troops--including U.S.-trained Ugandan forces--ostensibly bolster the TFG, to little effect. The U.S. also intervened directly in Somalia with sporadic air strikes.
After the Ethiopian invasion, sections of the UIC and other opposition forces regrouped in the Alliance for the Re-Liberation of Somalia (ARS), with others coalescing around the fundamentalist al-Shabab group and other armed factions.
Ethiopian troops withdrew after a unity agreement between the TFG and the ARS, now the major opposition faction. Sheik Sharif Ahmed, the ARS leader and head of the UIC government in 2006, was elected president of the TFG on January 31.

http://www.counterpunch.org/wengraf02132009.html

[ddeclue]

10. There's no justification for piracy and murder. Period. End of Story. nt

[joshcryer]

15. There's also no justification for wholesale murder of people wanting to create democracy.

Even if said democracy might look western.

[dem629]

25. An innocent life was at stake today, and that was the issue.

I for one am glad President Obama kept his word.

“I will not hesitate to use force, unilaterally if necessary, to protect the American people or our vital interests whenever we are attacked or imminently threatened.” (July/August 2007 issue of Foreign Affairs)

[joshcryer]

14. The attempt at a Somali government required Ethopian intervention and was requested.

The warlords wouldn't have it and Ethopia has its own authoritarian regime to maintain.

[hlthe2b]

5. You DO realize that this is an invited post from HuffPO

and not the words of the OP? Geez, disagree all you like, but stop indiscriminately vilifying everyone.

[ddeclue]

9. NO! I will continue to villify people who glorify and excuse pirates.

I don't give a damn about the source.

I can think for myself and don't worship at the feet of Huffington Post - I don't even bother to go there.

:argh:

[dem629]

12. How dare you not take "K'naan the Somali-Canadian singer" for an expert!

;)

[hlthe2b]

19. Your attack on the person who merely posted the piece

shows YOU for what YOU really are. Rude, incredibly rude.

[ddeclue]

20. No it's incredibly RUDE of you to expect reasonable people to accept your bizarro POV

that we should feel sorry for murdering pirates and to not get the message after you've been told 47,000 times.

:argh:

[hlthe2b]

22. That is NOT my POV ... once again you lash out indiscriminately

What the hell is wrong with you? Can't you debate politely at all? I happen to agree with you on the pirate issue, but NOT your attacks on other DUers.

[dem629]

7. Seems like a lot of excuse making to me.

Do any of the pirates raise these issues and demand action on those points, or do they only demand the $2 mil that just happens to be the cap that they companies will pay?

[dem629]

18. And one more thing about a point he makes near the end of the article....

"The truth is, if you ask any Somali, if getting rid of the pirates only means the continuous rape of our coast by unmonitored Western Vessels, and the producing of a new cancerous generation, we would all fly our pirate flags high."

Fly 'em, K'naan. It will be easier to find the pirates. But save a step and just raise them to half-mast.

[mmonk]

11. Most stories are more complicated than reported.

With that said, I'm glad to crew that was boarded is now safe.

[Lisa0825]

16. I am glad too. I am glad the captain is safe, and have no problem with killing the captors.

I just want the underlying issues to be addressed to help end the problem.... I don't think we can just wipe them out with firepower... strategy needs to involve historical perspective.

[Prometheus Bound]

17. Interesting and important background. Thank you for posting.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

21. 50 Cents

This is kind of like having 50 cents argue on why we shouldn't condem Lovell Mixon for killing and raping all those people. Please, save me the BS. 1 live American and 3 dead Somali criminals is all I need to know.

[Lisa0825]

24. But will it save the other 200?

See, I am looking at the bigger picture, not just the one Captain, who I am seriously happy is safe and sound. But what of the other hostages they currently have and the future ones they will take? That will take a more complicated resolution.

[Brooklyns_Finest]

33. A larger rescue mission

with world wide support to save the other hostages is needed. The only problem with this is that we cannot guarantee that Italian, Chinese, and ______, troops will be as effective as ours. Sacrifices will have to be made. We cannot continue to pay ransom to these criminals. These people are businessmen, not Al Queda. Once we start to destroy their business model, they will move on to some other criminal franchise. A long with the anti-piracy initiative, we will need an international force (hopefully comprised mostly of Africans) to patrol and secure Somalia.

[dem629]

26. Indeed. The solution won't be easy.

But it will most definitely involve going after the nest rather than dealing with them one by one. I'm glad President Obama authorized today's action, not just because we saved an innocent life, but also because it shows he is likely to take stronger action at the roots of this problem.

[scarletwoman]

23. Okay, I'll be the first to rec this. "It's complicated" -- which obviously doesn't sit well

with those who insist that reality must conform to their own limited capacity for understanding anything outside of strict dualism.

sw

[Prometheus Bound]

27. More background - from a pirate commander

Pirate Commander: 'How I Made My Fortune'

12:39pm UK, Saturday April 11, 2009

As bandits continue to terrorise shipping off the coast of Somalia, a pirate has claimed he was forced into a life of crime - but has made a fortune from it.

..."I was born in Eyl town and I used to be a fisherman," he told the Reuters news agency.

"I was forced to hijack foreign ships after the central government collapsed.

"No one was monitoring the sea, and we couldn't fish properly, because the ships which trawl the Somali coasts illegally would destroy our small boats and equipment.

"That is what forced us to become pirates.

"The first time I was involved in hijacking a ship was 2003. It must have been Arabian, there were 18 Yemeni crew.

"It was a big fishing ship that destroyed our boats several times.

"We surrounded it with our boats and seized it at gunpoint at night. We did not know these modern methods of using hooks and ladders, so we got near with our boats and climbed on.

"We held it for two weeks, then some Somali and Arab mediators stepped in to negotiate. We were convinced to take $50,000 (about £34,000) as compensation.

"This was a huge amount for us. That inspired us and gave us an appetite for hunting ships.

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Somali-Pirate-Yassin-Dheere-Says-He-Was-Driven-To-Crime-By-Anarchy-In-Somalia/Article/200904215260239?lpos=World_News_First_World_News_Feature_Teaser_Region_0&lid=ARTICLE_15260239_Somali_Pirate_Yassin_Dheere_Says_He_Was_Driven_To_Crime_By_Anarchy_In_Somalia

[dem629]

28. LOL

This thug claims he was forced to hijack a ship and then..."We were convinced to take $50,000 (about £34,000) as compensation."

Compensation? For hijacking a ship and potentially endangering the lives of innocent people? Give me a fucking break.

The excuses don't fly (with most of us, anyway).

[Prometheus Bound]

30. I think point is to find out how this state of affairs came about.

Not to defend him.

If we're unwilling to examine that, we can't be surprised if something similar happens again somewhere else.

Maybe killing them all is the only solution, but it hasn't seemed to work anywhere else, so I doubt it will work here.

I can't see anyone defending the guy, but we need to understand where he is coming from.

[dem629]

32. Disagree.

These are pure thugs, like a guy robbing a bank or a house. Nothing more. There's no need to understand thugs.

I realize that some people (not necessarily you) love to load these issues up with all kinds of pseudo-sociological feel-good bullshit, but they'll have to try it on someone else who buys it.

[XOKCowboy]

35. Yeah! Fuck 'em!

Carpet bomb the entire Somali coast. That'll stop the problem. :sarcasm:

They're just thugs after all. How dare they attack US!

[Ravachol]

36. Yeah!

Because, obviously, in Somalia, all they had to do was to go to the nearest police station to file a report about how their fishing boat (you know, as in how they feed themselves?) was destroyed? Oh, yes that's right, there is no police station.

It's easy to fuckin' pontificate and act like some tough shit on the internet. It's easy to bash on that Somali: how dare he go the pirate way? They just destroyed a couple times the boat he had to feed himself and his family. What would you want him to do? Lay down and die?

If someone destroys my food source and I have nowhere to turn to, you can be sure I too will end up committing illegal acts. And yes, taking a sweet little revenge on those very guys who ripped me of my food source at first.

Sorry if some of us can imagine that most of these pirates are driven by a will to survive rather than pure greed.*

*: Yeah, we've also heard about the few pirates who made a small fortune off it. Don't worry, the media repeats that non-stop.

[Duke Newcombe]

37. Wow. Let's hear it for moral equivalence. Yah! n/t

[walldude]

38. While I agree with the steps taken to resolve the issue

I also understand that there is more to the story than meets the eye.


The real problem I have is the celebrating done on DU. The faux rah rah threads, the fucking scores, the downright celebration of having to kill someone is appalling.


Not many years ago George W. Bush put a woman to death, he laughed and sniggered about it and DU was up in arms about his attitude, even though this woman was a murdered sentenced to death by a jury of her peers.

The hypocrisy here never ceases to amaze me.

[LynnTheDem]

40. Well said, well reminded.

"Not many years ago George W. Bush put a woman to death, he laughed and sniggered about it and DU was up in arms about his attitude, even though this woman was a murdered sentenced to death by a jury of her peers."

And we were (and are) totally justified in being upset and appalled by his inhuman jeering of her.


And yeah, it's the hypocrisy.

[flamingdem]

39. Don't forget that many of us are descended from pirates

AY!

[Posteritatis]

41. So what?

I'm sure I, like every other person on this board, has a small pile of thieves, rapists and murderers in their family trees if you go back far enough. That confers no taint or obligation on me, though, since I'm not doing any of those things.