CBS: Gun Sales: Will The "Loophole" Close?

[Omaha Steve]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/04/09/60minutes/main4931769.shtml

(CBS) Just in the last four weeks, there have been at least eight separate deadly shooting sprees all across the country. Some of this can be linked to the recession since several of the gunmen had lost their jobs.

The recession is having an effect in another surprising way: in past downturns, people stocked up on things like canned soups. But this time, it's guns.

Even as the stock market has plummeted, shares in Smith & Wesson have nearly quadrupled since November, and sales of guns are going through the roof.


When 60 Minutes and correspondent Lesley Stahl showed up at the weekend gun show in Richmond, Va., the line to get in went around the building.

"How many guns will be sold at a show like this over a weekend like this?" Stahl asked Philip Van Cleave, the president of Virginia's largest gun-rights group.

"Probably thousands," he estimated.


FULL story and video at link.

[bluerum]

1. Gun shows on a weekend, where private owners can sell whatever they

want with no background checks does present a problem.

A bigger problem is states with little or few requirements for FBI background checks for gun shops. They are in business every day, selling guns to anyone who has a drivers license and can fill out a form.

[Thothmes]

2. That form provides the information to the gun store owner

to do the legally required background check. Provided he is a legitimate businessman. The requirement to complete background checks is a Federal ane and is part of the requirements for a federal license to sell firearms.

[Statistical]

3. That would be a problem is any such state existed.

Gun dealers are FFL (FEDERAL Firearm License) holders.

Notice the word FEDERAL. Federal law thus requires than an FFL perform a background check on EVERY transaction.
new gun - NICS check needed
used gun - NICS check needed
gun sold in store - NICS check needed
gun sold from home - NICS check needed
gun sold from alley - NICS check neded
and yes
gun sold from gunshow - NICS check needed.

This is the same for EVERY state in United States because Federal law regulates.

Private gun owners can sell/trade a gun without background check in most states.
Some states require an FFL (see above) perform transaction for handguns only.
Some states require an FFL for all transactions.

It isn't even a "gunshow" loophole. If anything it is a "private property" loophole.
If a private gun owner can sell a gun at a gunshow then they can do so OUTSIDE a gunshow.

[aikoaiko]

4. The NICS background check is a federal one is the same across states.

As I understand it, if gunshops take in used guns for their inventory, they have to fill out a 4473 and conduct a NICS check on the buyer. Some states have more stringent rules, but no state is excepted from this Federal law.

The only exception may be if a gun shop owner is selling his personally owned guns. I believe he/she then need only conform to private seller laws. But most gun shop owners conduct NICS checks then to avoid BATFE problems.

[X_Digger]

5. Problem?

source:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/fuo.pdf (2001 stats, latest available)

Source of purchased guns (represent 14% of guns used in crime):
Street/illegal source 39.2%
Friends or family 39.6%
Gun show 0.7%
Flea market 1.0%
Pawnshop 3.8%
Retail store 8.3%

So, 86% of guns used in crime are stolen. Of that 14% that are purchased, 0.7% come from gun shows. So just under one-tenth of one percent of guns used in crime come from gun shows.

Remind me what the problem is, again?

[bluerum]

7. Cognitive therapy may help with those memory problems,,,

[HughMoran]

8. That's not accounting for the source of the stolen guns

Indirectly obtaining a gun by stealing it from someone who bought it at a gun show isn't accounted for in your analysis. Looking only at direct linkage with gun trade is not very useful.

[X_Digger]

9. So we agree that background checks for private sales..

..wouldn't trace back to criminals, yes?

Whether or not a person who buys a gun from a private seller has a background check or not won't affect the criminal who steals the gun.

Seems like a solution trying to solve a low incidence problem.

[Statistical]

10. That makes no sense....

Please explain on how closing the gunshow loophole would prevent criminal from gaining access to gun they stole from someone who purchased it at gunshow or anywhere else.

Even if 100% of legal private tranfered involved NICS and/or FFL it wouldn't prevent a criminal from using a gun they stole.


Unless you mean to make personal ownership illegal. Is that your intent? In which case you are talking about a lot more than closing a gunshow "loophole".

[HughMoran]

11. I was merely pointing out the indirect linkage not discussed in that post

The "loophole" may not be the best approach to solving the problem of guns getting into the hood, that wasn't really my point.

And no, if you come on my property at night unannounced and make a move at me, you will be shot. Don't read more into what I said than what I said.

[derby378]

6. Private sales at gun shows are actually somewhat rare

Even on websites for gun enthusiasts, I am seeing more private sellers insist on arranging transations through licensed gun dealers, so that they know the potential buyer will at least go through an NICS background check.