Rick Warren, Obama's first mistake.

[edhopper]

Maybe he should have listened to those of us on the left who warned that Warren was not a good choice for the Inauguration.
Not a big deal, but we were right about him.
A bigger issue is that maybe he should have listened to those same voice on Geithner and Summers.

[Raven]

1. Rick Warren is Rick Warren's mistake. n/t

[pepperbear]

23. one does wonder why, after 5 minutes of "supporting" obama, he claims "I never supported prop 8."

a lie, yes. but does it bode well, or poorly? could it mean a real change of heart? I can't imagine any political gain from flip-flopping like that. I am still scratching my head from this one.

maybe he is getting ready to come out of the closet.

:shrug:

[NeedleCast]

2. Inclusion

Seems to be what Obama is all about, even voices that he might personally or politically disagree with.

[zipplewrath]

5. honoring is not inclusion

Honoring this serial liar during the second most significant inaugration in our history wasn't the way to be inclusive. It was a mistake. Just because the goals are laudible, doesn't mean the method is irrelevant. i.e. the ends don't justify the means.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zipplewrath]

15. Negotiating isn't honoring

Talking to someone isn't honoring them.
Working with someone isn't honoring them.
Including someone isn't honoring them.

He honored Mr. Warren, that was the mistake.

And pointing that out isn't hypocrisy.

[edhopper]

25. If Obama treated him like a adversary

who needed to be negotiated with, that would be fine.
To elevate an anti-gay lying zealot to a place of honor was a mistake.

[edhopper]

26. You obviously don't understand

the difference between talking with someone and bestowing an honor.
Perhaps you should just limit yourself to determining the difference between your a$$ and your elbow.

[LooseWilly]

52. "fucking hypocrite"? What Psalm is that from?

[NeedleCast]

13. You're entitled to your opinion of course

I disagree. Obama seems to have been very successful using this type of politics, which gives a voice to everyone, even people we disagree with. Isn't that what government is supposed to do? As long as Obama is at the helm, I don't mind there being some people who I may have political, personal or even ethical issues with being allowed to be heard. Because until I get elected President, there won't be a president who I agree with 100%. I have the pragmatism to be happy with Obama's leadership even if I don't agree with all of his decisions.

You want the perfect president, either run for office or understand that you're setting yourself up for failure.

[zipplewrath]

16. He honored him.

Mr. Warren had no trouble "being heard". Obama can and should talk to all manner of people, and include them in all manner of processes. The mistake was honoring Mr. Warren.

[zipplewrath]

3. And correctable

The perfect president will never exist, and even presidents I support will make mistakes. My problem with the Warren thing was that it was easily correctible and he didn't do it. There were innumerable ways out of that mess and he didn't take any of them. We saw it again with Daschel. He didn't take any action until he was basically forced into it. This merely could be a sign of the "no drama" aspect of his style. But my concern really is that he doesn't have any counsel that will tell him that he is making a mistake. There are some counter indications, but mostly it appears to me that he can only react if he is positioned in advance to do so. If he wasn't prepared to have to change his mind, he finds it difficult to do so after the fact.

[cali]

4. how do you know he didn't listen?

just because he didn't do what some people wanted, doesn't mean he didn't listen.

[zipplewrath]

6. You're getting semantic

In that context, "not to listen" means "not to heed the warning".

[KittyWampus]

8. the irony of someone trying to play the bogus "honor" card and then accusing someone

ELSE of playing semantics.

[zipplewrath]

Didn't know there was a "card" now.

What is bogus about calling it an honor? It was an honor. Warren called it an honor. You think the other speakers and performers didn't consider it an honor? The musicians called it an honor. What part about it wasn't an honor?

[dsc]

20. It is ludricrious to argue that it wasn't an honor

When Rick Warren dies the fact he gave that prayer will almost certainly be in the first line of his obituary. The only way it wouldn't be is if he wrote it himself and purposely downplayed it. Obama will have, at most, two people give this prayer and only one will have done so first. If it isn't an honor to give the Inagural prayer at the first ever inaguration of an African American President then I don't know what the word honor means.

[cali]

12. nope. not semantics at all. Obama gets warnings and advice from

a great many sources. You think he should listen to you and people who are saying what you're saying. Others feel the same way about their viewpoints. Ultimately, whoever he listens to, he has to make a decision about whether that's advice/warnings/whatever, that he wants to heed.

[zipplewrath]

17. Right

And if he doesn't heed advice from someone, then the expression is that he did not "listen" to them. It's not that he didn't let them talk, or that he didn't hear what they said, as you suggested, but that he did not heed them.

[edhopper]

27. Implied within the

"he didn't listen" phrase is "he didn't do what we thought he should."

[LooseWilly]

51. Actually, it does mean he didn't listen.

It may not mean that he didn't hear, but it does mean he didn't listen.

[Solomon]

9. Aw Jeez Not this shit again.

What did he do now? Is Warren in the news again and for what? Did he shoot his grandmother or something?

[KittyWampus]

10. The Opening Poster has accomplished their mission.

[edhopper]

29. And that was?

Since you are obviously a mind reader.

Signed,
the OP

[progressoid]

21. He's lied about his support of Prop 8 on Larry King.

http://www.towleroad.com/2009/04/pastor-rick-warren-evades-prop-8-confrontation-in-talker-cancellation.html


He was supposed to be on George Snuffleupagus yesterday but bailed because of "exhaustion".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x295946

[HughMoran]

11. Heh

[edhopper]

30. I know you are taking a shot at me,

But I like the graphic.

[AirBaud]

14. How was selecting a pastor that essentially shares his religious view of gay marriage a mistake?

It was a decision made for personal reasons, not to send a political message.

[QC]

19. True--Warren and Obama are 100% in accord on the issue of marriage equality.

Warren was an appropriate, if unfortunate, choice.

[cliffordu]

18. You should just make a list of the sins

of the Prez. Get a tattoo. Vote Republican.

Rehash the angst.


Or something.

[edhopper]

31. Yeah

I should support the Prez in everything. Even if it means denying people their civil rights, or making what could be (and looks like to most progressive economist) a disastrous plan for the Banks.
Isn't saying your for us or against us and STFU something the Repugs do?

[cliffordu]

35. I just LOVE what you just did.

Nice turn into the STFU meme.



You need to be more subtle, though, wait for the SECOND response from someone to claim they are doing 'what the repugs do'

A tried and true tactic that, while transparent in this case, work, mostly.

If you want to complain and whine about what the Prez is doing, fine. We get to snark your more disengenuous stances, and I would NEVER tell anyone to STFU.

Word of advice?? Just pick ONE thing per OP to criticize unless you are doing an epic, well written piece about the whole 90 days of the presidency and include well authored paragraphs of insight and links backing your stance and criticism. Examples are not difficult to find....

Anybody can wander through here and run a grocery list of shit they don't like about what the prez has done.

I just snark the lamest ones.

[cliffordu]

41. predictable crickets.

[edhopper]

44. Sorry,

I went out. I have a life outside of DU.

[cliffordu]

47. Ouch!!! Garsh, that was a good one!!!

THAT iteration, of course, of the argument-less poser, is to claim superiority because they "have a life outside DU..."

Which may mean they had to leave the basement long enough to get another mountain dew and dump the garbage like mom said.

Maybe get another bag of Skittles. Who can say???

:shrug:

[edhopper]

48. And yet

you were so bothered by my failure to respond to your oh so witty canard, that you were compelled to give me the "ol' crickets".
Yes sir your so, so clever.

[LooseWilly]

54. I'll take the bait.

STFU is pretty much how I read your post.

I mean, sure... you started out with the Strawman bit about tattooing an essay of potential qualms with Obama's choices, presumeably to be tattooed upon one's ass judging by the tone you took. Then you went on with the strawman leap to voting Republican (I guess you don't wanna suggest voting Nader or Green, as DU still seems to be touchy about suggesting such things)... and you wound up with a heartily dismissive "rehash the angst".

I hate to break it to you, but that's a pretty undisguised STFU.

[cliffordu]

57. Well, thanks for your concern!!

:hurts:

[NJmaverick]

22. You couldn't be more off base

Rick Warren is now waivering on opposition to gay marriage. That is hardly a mistake, unless one is not really being objective in one's assessment of President Obama.

[LooseWilly]

55. I saw the clip on Matthews...

... I didn't read it so much as wavering, as just plain denial that he'd ever been involved. A point which Chris Matthews showed video to disprove.

My take is that his association with Prop 8 here in California, which I'm sure was heartfelt on his part, has made him such a target for shit flingers such as myself that, in order to better try to leverage his "honor" of speaking at the inauguration into a position of greater visibility/prominence, he is trying to sneak away from his "heartfelt" bigoted position.
Anyone who wants to take it as a sign of his wonderfully humanitarian nature is free to do so... but I personally am gonna continue to fling shit his way every chance I get until he actually starts speaking in favor of marriage equality. Trying to lie his way out of the association without any contrition work to undo what he's already done just ain't gonna make it for me. (Contrition is a Christian concept, isn't it?)

[ecstatic]

24. What did Rick do now? Apparently, you're keeping up with him

but I imagine that most people aren't.

[AirBaud]

28. Especially those of us that already have our civil rights.

We couldn't care less what he is doing.

[Ikonoklast]

32. Did the good pastor move to Somalia and become a pirate?

Dude.

[edhopper]

34. No, he went on Larry King

and lied about supporting Prop 8. Then he canceled at the last minute to go on ABC Sunday Morn to talk about it, knowing he would be called out.
Many of us thought this was not a man worthy of the honor that Obama gave him. Turns out, he was not.

[Ikonoklast]

36. Then he is self-destructing in public, like all those sanctimonious

holier-than-thou, money-grubbing grifters that use religion to skin the gullible.

Works for me. I despise Warren and all his ilk.

[spanone]

33. right, not a big deal

[AngryOldDem]

37. I'm sorry, but is Rick Warren back in the news? I missed it.

He completely went off my radar when he sat down after the inaugural prayer.

[BoneDaddy]

38. What? You don't like resurrecting

the corpses of old beaten horses, just to beat them again.

[Starry Messenger]

53. Yes, he is back in the news.

He has been trying again to sanitize his image. Here's some recent links.

http://news.google.com/news?q=rick+warren&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&ei=WibkSZXPO5S-tAPcyOCnCQ&sa=X&oi=news_group&resnum=1&ct=title

[Romulox]

39. Austan Goolsbee came WAY before Warren. nt

[Hanse]

40. Which part was the mistake?

Obama's big tent approach to politics lead to an overwhelming victory, which included unprecedented numbers of white christian evangelicals switching parties. The republican base has crumbled. Gay marriage has triumphed in vermont and iowa. And as for listening to Summers and Geithners, the leading economic indicators are showing we've hit bottom and are turning around.

If that's your idea of a mistake, I say more power to Obama.

[FreeState]

42. What did Obama have to do with Iowa or Vermont? Got a link? n/t

[edhopper]

46. Yeah

drink that Kool Aid.

[Hanse]

50. Will do.

Keep choking on that bile.

[LooseWilly]

56. You forgot to mention the wonders accomplished in California on Nov. 4th.

You know, Prop 8? You know... California did like Iowa did, and the State Supreme Court ruled separate marriage laws for same sex couples in contrast to different sex couples to be unconstitutional. Then some fuckin' "holy" alliance of Mormons and other assorted religious nutjobs (including... wait for it... Rick Warren) pushed a ballot initiative to change the state's constitution ... known as Prop 8, so as to overturn the decision of the state supreme court.

Sure, our state allowing that sort of thing is stupid as hell, and our Attorney General, good old Jerry Brown, actually not only refused to defend the proposition in court, he actively attacked it along with the opposition... but that doesn't change the fact of Rick Warren's complicity.

And this is the man that Obama chose to have do the prayer whatever it's called at his inauguration.

Choke on the bile? No thanks... I like to spit it at anyone who tries to defend Warren, or his ilk...

[edhopper]

58. Thanks Willy

your posts are more on target than I could respond.

[Kip Humphrey]

43. Rick Warren's purpose driven life apparently doesn't preclude lying when it serves his purpose.

[sarcasmo]

45. Geitner was the second.

[Pastiche423]

49. Nope

rahm was the second and the start of Obama's corporatists administration.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

59. IMO Rahm was his first. He selected Rahm before Warren.

[zipplewrath]

60. I was uncomfortable

I wasn't crazy about him, but I'm willing to give Obama some more rope there.... for a while. Ultimately he may have to go but even that may not be proof that it was a mistake. Many/most of them don't last the full terms.

[Pastiche423]

61. You are absolutely right!

Warren din't enter the picture until right before the ignaugaration. Obama chose rahm on November 7, 2008.

[WI_DEM]

62. Oh yes, Hillary, Edwards, Kucinich all of 'em (Gore, Kerry) would not have made any mistakes

and would have listened to the left on everything.