I apologize...

[walldude]

for not being able to join your celebration of the Pirate outcome. I am glad the Captain was returned safe, the pirates had every chance to give up and they didn't and the solution, while not the best possible outcome, was the only possible outcome under the circumstances.

That being said I will never "celebrate" death. I don't morn for the pirates, I morn for the men who were put into a position where they were forced to take another mans life in order to bring this conflict to a resolution.

I have never had the need to take another man's life, but my father did. He was a cop in Newark and had to shoot someone who drew down on him. He never got over it. Even though it was kill or be killed he couldn't live with what he had had to do. He climbed inside a bottle and never came out. I'm sure not all men are affected this deeply by killing but somehow I doubt the snipers were "celebrating" what they had to do.

The callousness of the freeper like Rah Rah threads are disturbing to me. What's even more disturbing is the neo-con style in which anyone who was not willing to celebrate this "victory" is attacked. "Malcontent", "apologist", "hate America firster".

I'm sorry that my perspective is different then yours, I'm sorry that my experience with a person who was forced to kill someone gave me a bit of insight that others may not have. I'm sorry that I didn't break out the keg, hoist up the flag and start singing God Bless The USA when we kicked those pirates asses. There must be something terribly wrong with me. So please accept my apology and in the future I will do my best to ignore all I have learned in life and blindly follow the lead of the people who really know what is right and what is wrong. You know... internet posters.

[billyoc]

1. Mourn.

[Blue-Jay]

49. Morn

[rucky]

2. Say 10 Hail Mary's

and write out the multiplication tables 10 times, then all is forgiven, my child.

[rurallib]

65. throw ten hail marys

[roguevalley]

83. I don't celebrate death either. I also am interested in the root causes

of this behavior, being that they cannot earn a living fishing and how that can be changed.

[rhett o rick]

90. Isn't it Heil Mary's? Just askin nm

[tekisui]

3. The only good thing that happened is that an innocent Captain

is returning home, safely, to his family.

The Navy achieved the best possible outcome, given the situation. My hope is that this doesn't lead to more deaths at the hands of vengeful pirates.

[mod mom]

54. I have to think the captain will have horrid nightmares after having 3 men blown away

in such close proximity. I, too, am glad he is safe but have to think there will be side effects from his trauma.

[Extend a Hand]

4. I'm not apologizing to the grave dancers

and black/white "your with us or against us" posters that have been so vocal here today.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TwilightZone]

6. Don't apologize.

1) You're not really sorry.

2) There are extremists on both sides of most issues. Most of them can (and often should) be ignored.

[EFerrari]

8. What a thoughtless reply to a thoughtful OP. n/t

[TwilightZone]

11. No more thoughtless than your brilliant retort.

The most insincere phrase in the English language is "I'm sorry" used in this context.

The OP is neither sorry, nor should he be.

[EFerrari]

12. Mizz Clio, is that you?

[walldude]

14. It was completely intended to be insincere and sarcastic

I was attempting to make a point about perspective and how people see issues. This post isn't really about the pirates, it's about respecting people and trying to learn from their life experiences. However since I wrote this on DU I expected nothing but scorn and derision, after all what could anyone learn from me and my experiences, I'm just another loser posting on a useless forum.

[XOKCowboy]

33. I read your original posts on the pirates...

and you made valid points. If their country hadn't been looted and the people facing starvation there wouldn't be Somali pirates. When you can't feed your family you'll do almost anything. For pointing that out you got flamed big time on DU. I guess things are changing.

The irony of Freepers lamenting this rescue and DU calling for bombing Somalia seems to be escaping a lot of people.

[Fire1]

34. Back up! You're not a loser! 1) b/c you're a member of

DU and 2) That's like calling all of us losers! 3) The vast majority of DU members are quite astute and most intelligent, from my observation.

[Bluebear]

39. You're not a loser.

As to useless forum, it's heading that way.

[Kajsa]

72. It looks like you were

correct,TwilightZone.

[Bluebear]

38. The reply of a true ass.

[Toucano]

43. +1

[Renew Deal]

107. I get your point.

And I don't know what the fuss is. Your posts supports the OP.

[XOKCowboy]

7. Glad to K&R ol' friend.

The way this place has been lately though I'm not surprised.

[walldude]

13. Yeah me either.. and I've noticed that many of my favorite posters

have vanished. It's almost like we have swapped places with FR. Now they are screaming about FEMA camps and we are waving the flag. From a certain perspective this is probably hilarious.

I saw a post the other day where a dude was going to show up at the Tea Bag protest wearing a flag shirt and carrying a sign saying "support the troops". Funniest damn thing I had heard all week, too bad the freeps won't see the irony there...

[BlancheSplanchnik]

57. makes me think of the response I got

from the author of a regular thread here, "check in, K&R if you think..." , etc etc and so forth...

Well, if I were more specific, I'd be calling them out. Suffice to complete the title with, "...those scumbags should have their asses kicked".

Usually I stay away from those, but finally I posted on one of them that I just didn't agree with the "K&R if you think..." threads. I did my best to reply with thoughtful critique to the OP's insulting replies to me..... but what really showed me that this was not someone interested in thoughtful dialogue was when he finally flipped me off with, "you're not one of us".

Wow, I guess that's my catch-up for having missed the Palin rallies!!!

[Bjorn Against]

9. K&R, that was very well said.

A situation that results in dead bodies is never a good thing even if the people who died were not innocent. I am not upset with Obama for taking this action because he was in a situation in which it was looking like there would be no possible good outcome, but just because this may have been the best possible outcome given the circumstances does not mean we should be celebrating the deaths of anyone.

[EFerrari]

10. They want to make this situation into a reality show:

Source: MSNBC/AP

NEW YORK - Barely a day after the daring rescue of an American sea captain, a US cable TV channel announced a deal Monday to produce a show about U.S. Navy pirate hunters.

Two crews for 44 Blue Productions hope to be on board Navy vessels patrolling in the pirate-infested waters off the coast of Africa within two weeks. The company is aiming to have a series ready to put on the air by September, said Rasha Drachkovitch, 44 Blue's president and founder.

He'd been talking to the Navy about the idea for three months, but it was finished late last week while the standoff with pirates who had taken Capt. Richard Phillips hostage was going on.

"We had no idea if last week's events would actually kill the deal or seal the deal," said Sharon Levy, the Spike TV channel's senior vice president for original series.

Drachkovitch said he thought the Navy would put the project on hold, yet instead the Phillips incident seemed to accelerate things. Commander Robert K. Anderson, Navy spokesman on the deal, said the agreement had essentially been made before the U.S. ship was attacked.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3829533

Rah Rah Ratings!

Thanks, walldude. I have always been able to trust your gut.

[walldude]

19. Judging from the response to the situtation on DU

I'd say this is going to be a smash hit.

Man right down the crapper we are going.

[EFerrari]

22. There's some kind of mob mentality here that is really ugly.

Maybe that happens all over the net.

[JuniperLea]

100. I think it does...

I know for a fact that there are shadow websites and email rings on this and other sites that ping the horde and give instructions. Bullies.

[EFerrari]

109. That's creepy. n/t

[JuniperLea]

111. It really is!

There have been several exposed on dKos...

[arcadian]

20. And I was shouted down for calling this Bread & Circuses

That story is my vindication. Thanks for posting it. Should be it's own OP.

[EFerrari]

23. I know.

You were exactly right and still are.

[EFerrari]

26. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5449589&mesg_id=5449589

[arcadian]

28. Awesome

:thumbsup:

[awoke_in_2003]

58. TV just goes to show....

that "Idiocracy" has one premise wrong- that it will take us 500 years to achieve total idiocy.

[jmg257]

15. No problem - you have your experiences, others have theirs. You go with what you know.

As for SEAL snipers, chances are they will be fine. I hope so anyway.

[EFerrari]

16. There is no opposition between the OP and the Seals. n/t

[jmg257]

17. I know. n/t

[EFerrari]

24. Sorry, jmg, a little stupid today. n/t

[jmg257]

25. No sweat - cheers! nt

[walldude]

21. I hope so too...

but from experience I know it isn't always that easy.

[scarletwoman]

18. Thank you for your thoughtful post. Rec'd. (nt)

[eridani]

27. Statistics bear out your experience

Police who kill someone in the line of duty have significantly higher suicide rates than those who don't. And whether or not the shooting was ruled as justified makes not the slightest bit of difference.

[G_j]

29. well said.

thank you

[HughMoran]

30. I agree

As much as I wanted the captain to be freed safely, and as little sympathy as I have for the stupid pirate ass holes, you won't seem me grave dancing any time soon.

[pleah]

31. K&R

[tbyg52]

32. Completely agree.

I don't like celebrating any death, even if the people who died put themselves in line for it. I'm just glad there was no further loss of life.

[BuyingThyme]

35. kcik

[yardwork]

36. What you said.

[GliderGuider]

37. Thanks for saying that, walldude

I've been watching aghast over the last couple of days as DU has turned into a bargain-basement knockoff of a certain other web site. It has reinforced my unhappy conclusion that all humans in large crowds exhibit similar traits, regardless of the groups they claim membership in.

I hope that the SEAL snipers are well enough trained (i.e. indoctrinated, insulated, reinforced and compartmentalized) to avoid your father's fate. This event doesn't need to claim any more victims.

[MrMickeysMom]

40. I wouldn't be sorry, walldude-

In fact, I'm a little surprised when people like Will Pitt post recently. Maybe I don't understand it, either.

Desperate fisherman who are taking the law into their own hands? I don't really know the story, but I do know there occasionally rises an ugly face over real reasons for what we tend to get ourselves into.

I'd like to know the background. Hell, I do know some of the background, in terms of what the horn of Africa has gone through. Most of all, I'd like real conversation and not having to apologize for it.

:hi:

[dysfunctional press]

41. i'll celebrate enough for both of us...

already too many people on the planet anyway, from what i understand.

[Toucano]

42. Apology accepted.

Just don't do it again.

[Prometheus Bound]

44. That was the most basic animal instinct we saw. Like a pack of hounds after catching a fox.

Never mind they're 50 hounds plus horses, men and guns against a single fox. They bay and howl and yowl and bawl because they WON! The pack won.

Ain't death fine!

[leftstreet]

45. K&R

[Smith_3]

46. Ever since Obama is in office, part of DU has turned into this:

[ConsAreLiars]

47. Well said.

The cowardly blood-lusters and kill-em-all morons seem to have joined DU in large numbers over the past few months, and/or maybe some long-timers are just recently permitted by the mods to post their own hate-mongering comments more frequently, since that kind of bigoted hate speech seems now acceptable here. Something is going terribly wrong here, and I hope Skinner and company soon realize that the mod powers have been partially taken over by some very rightist/corporatist/DLC operatives.

[get the red out]

52. Yes by all means

Shut down all disagreement to the pirate love fest. Just what we Democrats need, heavy handed dictatorial power over differing opinions.

[walldude]

69. What pirate love fest?

You may be able to find one or two people who "love" the pirates but the love fest on DU was for shooting them not for the pirates. Hence the thread.

[endarkenment]

79. the posters 'name' is 'get the red out'

I think that would be sufficient to understand where the poster is coming from.

[walldude]

85. So you found one. The fringe

they don't represent me or the majority of people who agree with me.

[Senator]

48. K&R

[ima_sinnic]

50. thank you for your thoughtful post--you are not alone with those sentiments

--I am in hopes that, in the long run, this might actually help the Somalians as it draws attention to their plight, which apparently was caused in large part by the usual suspects, the capitalist pigs who must control every resource on the planet and have no soul and no regard whatsoever for humanity.

:hug:

[walldude]

74. Me too....

Until we start pulling our problems out from the root we will just keep running in circles.

[immoderate]

51. K&R, walldude

This whole thing is an indicator of things that need to be fixed, not people that need to be shot.

--imm

[Lydia Leftcoast]

53. Thank you, walldude

There's a real ugly streak in American society, one that values toughness and aggression for their own sake. It reminds me of the days after 9/11 when some DUers were actually advocating nuking every Arab country, literally calling for genocide to avenge the deaths of 3,000.

One of my most disheartening experiences during the Reagan administration was seeing the reaction to the invasion of Grenada. Here the U.S. military had taken over a largely undefended Caribbean island only 30 miles long--and done so only after a great deal of Keystone Kops-like fumbling--and the Reaganites and their slack-jawed followers were acting as if it was some great military victory over the forces of darkness.

There's no context, such as why there are pirates in Somali waters at all, no nuance, just "kill 'em all."

[antimatter98]

55. Walldude---my thoughts offered

Here is my reaction to the pirate situation (and I guess many won't like how 'liberal' it sounds)

1. I was glad to see decisive action that succeeded.
2. I was glad Obama did not turn into Carter, thus inviting ridicule.
3. I was amazed that this story totally took over the news cycle, but not surprised. Again, as a test
of the MSM, they failed---giving every bit of their video pixels over to this story.
4. I wondered why we can't take care of AMERICANS ON OUR OWN SOIL with the same efficiency, e.g.,
Katrina, such as helping the poor, such as helping the homeless, and the unemployed, and WHY WE CANT
BE JUST AS PROUD of doing that as we were about the pirate rescue.
5. I wondered why Obama could not be as decisive on our DOMESTIC economy.
6. Metaphor: Obama could have let the captain die, allow the pirates to win, but ask a blue ribbon
task force to analyze 'what went wrong' that would hide all events involved and offer nothing for
the merchant marine except raises for his task force. Just as he has done for Americans out of work, foreclosed, and homeless.

eom

[jobycom]

56. I'm sorry more people don't have your wisdom.

One of the best posts I've ever seen on DU.

[Canuckistanian]

59. Thank You

You echo my sentiments exactly.

[aikoaiko]

60. I'm fine with your position, but do you really have to name call other DUers to make your point

Obviously not.

Kettle meet pot.

[No More Bushbots]

64. I haven't noticed a mass migration to Somalia either

To help solve the problems that caused these poor unfortunates to turn to a life of piracy.

[walldude]

68. Well I'm glad you noticed that...

I have no idea what that has to do with my post though.

[No More Bushbots]

89. I'm sure you or any of the other pirate defenders don't

But until I see a ship load of you headed to Somalia to help resolve all the issues in that country, your opinion is irrelevant.

[frylock]

95. pirate defenders?!

your post is as irrelevant as your bullshit opinion.

[walldude]

66. Where did I do that?

Still waiting to hear who I called names, unless you are talking about Mr Name Removed, which I was kinda bummed they deleted him, he was making my case for me.

[aikoaiko]

75. "freeper like" and "neoconstyle" that refer to specific threads by specific DUers

And don't even try to deflect my criticism by saying you were talking about the content and not the person.

Its name calling just the same -- albeit veiled.

[endarkenment]

80. It was about the content not the person

"And don't even try to deflect my criticism" - I just love that rhetorical dodge.

[walldude]

84. Oh I won't "deflect" anything... I did say those things, I meant them

and they are absolutely 100% true. You can take them as a personal insult or not, that's not up to me it's up to you. I called it like I saw it. And what I said was nothing compared to the things said about me. You don't like it? There is hide thread and ignore.

[aikoaiko]

97. I won't hit the ignore button, but I will point out that you like to dish out while complain about

...others doing something similar.

I get it and I think you're right to ask fellow DUers to not refer to you as a "Malcontent", "apologist", "hate America firster", but yet you have no problem referring to their opinions as freeper-like or neocon in nature in return.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

61. thank you for writing this. nt

[nolabels]

62. The need for politics should end when weapons have been drawn

I don't feel sorry for people who have to kill people as part of their occupation. I just feel sorry for our civilization that we steal from others making killing others in process necessary. We are all part of this, the pirates we see are just a mirror image of us minus the refinements

[SlingBlade]

63. You have every right to moun, You do not however

have the right to disparage those who show some sense of relief, victory or happiness
that it was the terrorist and not some G.I that was killed.

Like many around here lately, You use "Liberal" and "Progressive" Concerns and causes
against President Obama , Democratic Underground or the Democratic gains in Congress.

None of which I might add were easy, All were hard fought
Yet now, Some Eighty-Five (85) Day's since the end of George W Bush

IS NOT THE TIME TO TRASH ALL THAT WE HAVE FOUGHT FOR

Capice ?

[walldude]

71. This was not some sense of relief or happiness it was out and out celebration

The highest thread recommended that day said RAH RAH GO USA MALCONTENTS: TOUGH SHIT. Not to mention the many "score threads Pirates 0 Navy 3, or the totally un-ironic post that said and I quote "today we are all freepers".


I was and still am a huge Obama supporter, but if he does something I disagree with I am not going to follow lock step. And this thread had nothing to do with politics or politicians or parties or Obama, I saw what from my perspective was a sickening display of faux patriotism used to celebrate the fact that snipers had to kill the pirates to save a man. I commented my feelings and perspective on it. That's all.

[democrank]

67. Thank you, walldude

[NashVegas]

70. What a Great Post, Walldude

Thanks for sharing.

[walldude]

73. Thanks... When I left yesterday it had fallen off the radar

was kind of surprised it had legs...


NashVegas eh', I live in Colorado but work out of NashVegas.. I'll be back that way starting May 10th...

[closeupready]

76. Completely agree, walldude. DU reflects what is a very, very sick, violent society.

It is quite disturbing.

[Kajsa]

77. Very well stated, Walldude.

I too am relieved that the Captain was returned safe, but
I do not celebrate the death of the pirates.

"I morn for the men who were put into a position where they were forced to
take another mans life in order to bring this conflict to a resolution. "

Yes, I do too.

[endarkenment]

78. thank you for your eloquence

[mdmc]

81. awesome

R:kick:

[DinahMoeHum]

82. Sometimes necessary things are not very nice, ie. your father's situation

That also goes for what happened out in the ocean outside Somalia.

This was a very very bad situation. But what happened next had to be done.

No apologies are needed.

:hug:

[MellowDem]

86. If only many of the same people that are showing compassion

and understanding for the pirates also did the same for conservatives, we might be winning over a lot more hearts and minds. The widespread acceptance of demonizing a whole group of people based on their politics doesn't make any more sense than hating these pirates. Many conservatives are the way they are because of the circumstances they were raised in, much like the pirates. The pirates are able to justify their wrongdoing, just as conservatives are able to justify their beliefs. If we are willing to be understanding of one, it is to our detriment to not be understanding of the other.

[walldude]

87. I agree, but I also understand... after 8 years of being crapped on

people aren't going to be so quick to make nice. And now with the faux revolutions it's getting worse. Hell I do it myself and I have many conservative friends.

[Redstone]

88. Nothing to apologize for. Your opinion is not the same as mine, but that doesn't

make it any less valid.

And yes, those snipers very likely did NOT "celebrate." It's a rare person, as you know from personal experience, who can kill someone and not be profoundly affected by it

Redstone

[walldude]

94. Dude, over the years we haven't agreed all the time but

there is always respect for the other guys opinion. I wish DU was full of people like you.

[whopis01]

91. There is such a small minority of people who are celebrating the deaths of the pirates here.

I really wouldn't get that worked up about it.

Some people are always going to be fascinated by the use of violence or deadly force, and occasionally some of them are going to be vocal about it. However to claim that "anyone who was not willing to celebrate this 'victory' is attacked" is not a very accurate view of the response to the incident here.

The vast majority of the celebration that I witnessed here was a celebration of the rescue of the captain who had been kidnapped. I agree that the snipers were probably not celebrating what they had to do, but I bet they were happy with what they accomplished. Their mission was not to kill the pirates. Their mission was to assist in the recovery of the hostage, and they did their job.

I would imagine that I feel like most people here. First and foremost, I am happy that the innocent hostage was recovered alive and well. I am also pleased that we have people in our military who are capable and willing to do the job that is asked of them. I feel that the pirates created a situation where the military was left with little choice as to what to do. I feel sorry for the people in Somalia who are living in conditions so terrible that risking your life and the lives of others as a pirate becomes a seemingly reasonable option.

[walldude]

93. Maybe you missed it on Sunday but it was more than a few.

the number one rec'ed thread that day was: RAH RAH USA: Malcontents: Tough Shit. Which added to the "score" threads ie: Pirates 0 Navy 3(at least 3 or 4 of those), and the comment about us all being freepers that day, and the comments that anyone who even attempts to say that there was more to this than just pirates stealing money were just stupid pirate lovers, I had had enough and said my piece. Which I was surprised to see on the home page this morning.

[go west young man]

98. Great thread and great sentiment on your part.

I too long for the times when DU was more thoughtful and posts were filled with research and data. Nowadays it seems there are lots of opinions and emotional name calling and very little intelligent polite debate backed up with sourced data. I used to love coming here and finding out things that the MSM had no idea about. That seems rare nowadays. DU is losing it's way I believe.

I would also point out that the Rah Rah thread was very nationalistic and that is another reason to be concerned. The killings of the pirates were celebrated here with a nationalistic fervor. I would challenge all DU'ers to get away from thinking of themselves singularly as Americans and see themselves as human beings and world citizens. Our limited nationalistic perspective is hurting us more than any terrorist threat. Love your Floyd Icon by the way. I'm quite sure the boys in the band would agree with your mindset.

[whopis01]

108. Oh, I didn't miss it at all... but I still don't think a lot of people

are celebrating the death of anyone in this. Even in the thread you mention, the OP isn't celebrating the deaths of the pirates. Here is the OP from that thread:

Today's rescue of Richard Phillips is a thing of beauty. I know this is the Democratic Underground and some of us don't like the RAH RAH sentiments expressed but TOUGH SHIT.

We vote, we are engaged, we are activists BECAUSE WE LOVE THIS COUNTRY. We have no problems calling out the shit done by this country, but the we also reserve the right to shout RAH RAH when something goes right.

The Maersk Alabama was delivering RELIEF SUPPLIES TO AFRICA! They got hijacked by pirates, our Navy moved in and rescued the captain and killed 3 of the 4 pirates.

Our President was being criticized by the right for not doing enough and not moving fast enough, yet our Navy successfully rescued the captain. . .so excuse the FUCK OUT OF ME FOR SAYING


The poster is saying "RAH RAH" in celebration of the Navy successfully rescuing the captain... at least that is what I get out of it when I read it. With that said, the portion about the malcontents and the "eat shit" line are unnecessary and stupid.

Reading down that thread, there are plenty of comments like "I'm never delighted with anything that kills people but I am delighted that the captain was freed, unhurt.", and "I am not cheering their deaths but they had a choice (to lay down their weapons and let the captain go) they chose not too."

Out of the 200 or so responses to that thread, I saw only two that claimed the deaths of the pirates were something to be proud of. One said "this hostage rescue is a proud day. we killed (3 ) of the bad guys and got the hostage out alive.", and another "Proud day. The first US hostages taken by pirates in 200 years, all are back safely, 3 pirates dead, one arrested.". A couple others argued its justifiability such as "We (meaning all countries that use that shipping route) need to make it clear that piracy comes with a very stiff price. If you hijack a ship, kidnap the crew and try to extort money from any country, you will not walk away....... period.", and "I am not saying what happened wasn't a good outcome, I think it was justifiable". I hardly think that amounts to a celebration of death.

I saw far more posts in that thread castigating people for being proud of their country than I did celebrating the death of anyone.

Here is the link to the thread you mentioned:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=5441153&mesg_id=5441153

Maybe I missed something there... Show me where it is, if you would like.

[rhett o rick]

92. Unless the capitalist monster is put back in chains, you will see more and more

anarchy.

[texastoast]

96. So is it true (again)?

The corporatists are able to use the U.S. forces to protect their profiteering?

What is this about the pirates being against the nuclear waste being dumped on their shores? Their waters being overfished?

[walldude]

101. Yeah there are a number of articles all over the net

explaining what Somalia is dealing with. However the Pirates were using that as an excuse and that doesn't work for me either. I think in this situation they(Navy) did what they had to. You may have missed all the celebrating that inspired this thread.

For info on Somalia just go to google type pirates, somalia and toxic waste. Be warned if you bring that stuff up on DU you will get flamed.

[texastoast]

105. Post me some links

Nothing like a little good argument after a couple of tequilas.

:evilgrin:

[JuniperLea]

99. K&R

Nailed it.

I was sick of the "yay team" football game mentality coming from the RW for the past eight years, and just when I thought it was safe...

The term "festering cesspool" comes to mind.

[walldude]

102. Hey a friendly face!

Hi Juni! Man I come back after a few weeks and no one is around, and yeah it seems we have switched places with the freeps. DU is all Rah Rah and FR is out protesting. It's actually funny, from a certain point of view.

Seems many of my like minded friends have bailed. Can't blame them.

[JuniperLea]

103. It's like bizarro world...

And so few understand that "we" have become just as bad as the Freepers.

I still have hope:)

:hi:

[walldude]

110. I know...

I almost fell out of my chair laughing the day Bachmann made her "re-education camp" claims and Du was cheering the good ole' USofA.

The rhetoric is the same we have just switched places.

[underseasurveyor]

104. Awww

:hug:
You're so sweet and you are rich in heart and spirit. A wise person learns from others mistakes, or lessons as the case may be here. You learned well from your father.

[Renew Deal]

106. I think there are two separate issues.

I agree with the first half of your post, but I think it's disconnected from the second half. There are "Malcontents", "apologists", "hate America firsters" here. But they're not that for "not celebrating" the outcome. They are that for pushing some bizarre theory that the pirates are volunteer fisherman heroes of the environment. That couldn't be further from the truth. And I think the "malcontents" and "apologists" have used that as cover for their posts. That's where the friction is.

[inna]

112. i could not agree with you more, thanks for this thread! nt