As an officer in the Navy

[margotb822]

I can assure you that there are no "extra" ships to send to the HOA region and police these pirates. In case anyone has forgotten, we still have two wars going on, a North Korea that is working on an ICBM, many nations that are operating submarines with greater effectiveness, China still denying American ships access to the straits of Taiwan, and drug runners running thousands of tons of drugs and arms in the western hemisphere.

We're fucking busy here!

And it shows...two ships have run aground in less than a year, a sailor fell overboard and dies in the gulf, a sub hit a ship in the straits of Hormuz and a plane fell out of the sky on to a house killing four people. This is battle fatigue. This will only get worse if we keep stretching our forces thin.

We can't do this on our own. There is incentive for many other nations to join in policing the pirates, but we (the world) have to recognize the fact that Somalia can't continue to be an anarchic state.

[EFerrari]

1. Agreed. Obama is good at networking. I feel confident that his admin

will build a coalition to address this mess.

[Captain Hilts]

2. GWB cut the USN mercilessly. Just terrible.

I think the ship hit the sub.

Yeah, I hang with bubbleheads.

[margotb822]

3. It's not even the cuts, it's the pace

People don't think about the Navy too much with the land wars, but we're out there too, and doing a lot of other things. We don't have any wonderful new ships to show for this MIC ruling of the past 8 years either. Most ships are older than me (and I'm close to 30).

[Captain Hilts]

5. The Navy's working harder than ever. nt

[ColbertWatcher]

6. And he chose to embroil the Army and Marines in Iraq.

I have confidence that our troops can handle it, but they need better leadership than what the GOP left them with.

[Captain Hilts]

9. You can't convince folks here that the Army and Marines went to Iraq kicking and screaming.

They don't want to be there.

[ColbertWatcher]

26. I don't think they had much of a choice.

I know that the troops can ignore an illegal order, but the GOP-controlled media had lots of people confused about who was to blamed for the attacks and where those people might be.

I know that many DUers knew better than to trust the GOP, but knowing that Limpballs had a monopoly on Armed Forces radio, I doubt there were many in the armed forces who knew what to believe beyond their orders.

Prior to Lynndie England, I doubt any of the grunts would have considered their orders to have been inappropriate.

Now? I can't imagine what they're feeling.

[MadMaddie]

4. Well I appreciate the job that all of military personel perform

on behalf of our country.

You are right we have to get the world involved in trying to come up with solutions to fix those issues in countries like Somalia. Somalia has a vacuum in the government area, there is no true central government and it will be hard to get anything done until that is resolved.

Issues like other countries overfishing the Somali coast and illegally dumping toxic waste off the coast have to be resolved in order to stop piracy and other crimes.

[MADem]

7. But.... but... but...

Don't you know Barack has a whole SEABAG of "spare" ships!! Why, they're like bathroom rubber duckies, you find them everywhere!

Never mind that Bush has gutted USN to the quick....

Many nations already have sent assets--Germany, Japan, India, others. It would help if they'd cobble together a multinational task force with a serious, direct, rotating mission, a plain chain of command, and precise goals and strategies-- something with a UN imprimatur on it would be especially nice...IMO.

[BlooInBloo]

8. (shrug) What's available depends almost entirely on what Obama says is available...

There's of course no doubt that help from other countries is needed.

[jody]

11. "what Obama says is available"! Does Obama have a magic wand to create more troops and equipment? nt

[jody]

10. Cheer up, DoD budgets will be cut more & troops ordered to do more. Meanwhile Obama supporters will

flock away from recruiters seeking more bodies to fight Obama's wars.

[stillcool]

25. which "Obama supporters"?

all of them?

[alarimer]

32. Yes hopefully that bloated budget will be cut.

And no more cannon fodder for stupid illegal immoral wars.

We are not the world's police. If people want to stop piracy, other countries are going to have to help. Otherwise, tough shit. Just pay them off.

[bridgit]

12. Appreciate your thoughts here...

Stay Safe :kick:

[TahitiNut]

13. What's the big deal about patrolling an area twice the size of Texas with a few 35mph vehicles??

:rofl:

[NutmegYankee]

14. Shhh. People might realize we use our submarines all the time.

You could burst their bubble of ignorance about what Submarines do! After all, they know their only cold war weapons because they saw a movie with Sean Connery and Alec Baldwin!


On a serious note, I couldn't agree more. It's a sickening OpTempo for all branches.

On Edit: Spelling. Also to add that I have friends and family out there, both in the water and in the desert. One is going onto his third combat tour.

[Captain Hilts]

17. Okay, Nutmeger, here's another Nutmeg scene...

[NutmegYankee]

18. I take it you were a GUPPY submariner?

IA or II?

[Captain Hilts]

19. Dad was. I think the Robin was IA. The expensive version.

Not a Fleet Snorkel, the cheapo version.

The Robin was the fastest boat outta Groton on the day it was decommissioned. Sad day.

[NutmegYankee]

20. I have to say, those boats had style. Much more before the GUPPY mods.

They just looked elegant versus the sleek round versions of today slipping by the waterfront.

[Captain Hilts]

21. You could look down the pier and tell which was which because there were...

so many different kinds. I guess it was easy for the Soviets to do so also.

I guess it's 'progress' that they look alike, I just wish they named 'em after fish still, that way they'd have cute pictures of fish wearing sailors caps and boxing gloves as logos instead of state/city mottos.

[arcadian]

15. Is this the Navy's official policy? Are you with public affairs?

I take public servants using the weight behind their titles very seriously.

[Obamanaut]

22. Can't speak to "official policy" but I can read papers, use internets,

piece together bits of information. There was a never-quite-reached goal of a 600 ship Navy way back when. With draw-downs and normal attrition without replacement, I believe the current total is not quite half that. Toss a few out of service for dry-dock, overhaul, what have you and behold! you are stretched thin.

There may well be a statement or two on the Navy web site that will give you more insight.

[margotb822]

28. These are my opinions

as someone who works directly on ships and with ship scheduling. I know what we've got, what we can do, and what we're scheduled to do. I'm sure the Navy's position is that we'll do what we're told to the best of our ability.

[stillcool]

16. I think it will be very interesting..

to see what happens. I am so used to our normal goals and methods, that I have a hard time believing things will be any different this time.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/North_Africa/North_Africa_page.html

[bertman]

23. Thanks for the comments, margotb822. I keep asking why in the world WE should be

doing the police work there. Let these shipping companies pay for escorts or security teams on board. Our navy has its own duties and obligations to fulfill.

Great point about Somalia's current state of anarchy.

Thanks for your service.

[UTUSN]

24. And yet -------- shipmates PERFORM against all odds!1 Anchors aWEIGH!1 n/t

[Obamanaut]

27. Stay safe. nt

[MiniMe]

29. And Obama has said that it requires an international solution

I agree with that. The US can't be responsible for all the world's problems. So far, the piracy has affected other countries much more than it has affected the US. I don't claim to know what the answer is, it is up to those who know what is going on.

The piracy problem is yet another situation that W has left for Obama to clean up, it has been going on for several years, and W seemed to totally ignore it.

I think it was appropriate for the Navy to get involved in this case, because there was a hostage crisis in international waters. It was a job well done, and their job there is finished.

I was just chatting with a friend of mine from Singapore and she was saying that they are now shipping cargo around the Cape and taking the long way instead of going through the Suez Canal. That is going to affect Europe a lot more than it affects us.

Stay safe.

[14thColony]

30. Hi margotb822

Replying to your OP so it's more visible, not to try to school you or anything.

I dunno how much it's reported in the US, since I don't live there, but as a NATO-assigned US officer peripherally working this issue, folks back home are probably not aware of how many non-US warships are involved in anti-piracy ops in that area. At any given time there are 15-20 warships patrolling, of which as few as 2-3 are USN - not meaning the USN isn't doing enough, but merely pointing out other countries are stepping up too, and have been for a while.

All in all the following countries have at least one warship either there already, enroute, or recently departed: Portugal, Canada, Spain, US, Germany (1 destroyer, 1 resupply), The Netherlands, France, Sweden (2 corvettes), Denmark, Greece, Turkey, UK, Russia (3-4 destroyers/amphib asslt ships), China (2 destroyers, 1 resupply ship), Japan (2 destroyers enroute), India (1 destroyer, 1 frigate), South Korea, Malaysia, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Iran (1-2 frigates/patrol boats).

I'm probably even missing a few - might be a UAE patrol vessel enroute as well, IIRC.

Bottomline is other countries are involved, and some have been in the thick of it for a while -- the French Navy has even done 'hot pursuit' inland, chasing pirates with Marines and attack helos.

So how is it being portrayed in the US press? As 'nobody else is helping?' Just curious.

[margotb822]

33. I've been in the area

I know that there are many other coalition warships out there. Rachel Maddow even did a piece last night about EU and NATO efforts in the area.

I think the problem in the US is two-fold. First, people want the US to protect US shipping specifically. People knew about the pirates, but it wasn't a big deal until it happened to us. People have been so conditioned to think that a military response is they only way of solving a crisis. No matter which way you slice it the US has more ships than any other Navy (usually by 10-fold). I think people wonder "what else" we're doing that we can't all just run over there and blast the pirates out of the water. The fact is that 2-3 ships is what we can supply due to our other missions.

Second, people are portraying this as solely about the pirates, and not as a consequence of the fact that Somalia hasn't had a government for about 20 years. People who say that piracy started because of outside events are being called "apologists." Overall, in fact, the whole world's response to crises in Africa has been deficient. Somalia is no different. But, it's something that the US can't solve on it's own, and would actually be a good example of something that we could let other countries take the lead in. We don't have to do everything, but we can't do it all on our own.

[14thColony]

35. I've only hung out in West Africa

but we've got a guy from my org riding around on SNMG1's flagship right now as they do anti-piracy ops off Somalia/GoA.

I agree 100 percent with what you say. Hell, even if we could spare 20 destroyers or frigates to add to the 15 or so non-US ones out there, I seriously doubt we could put a stop to the piracy. Big chunk of ocean, and it's not like the pirate vessels are particularly obvious until they start a-piratin' someone.

As you say, there are some serious systemic root causes to this going back decades, and a military response can do little more than attempt to affect this specific syptom, not the root cause(s).

As I've noted elsewhere at DU, there is a certain irony that the one group able to effectively neutralize the pirates was the Islamic Courts government, which we assisted Ethiopia is deposing because they were, well, Islamist. The law of unintended consequences strikes again.

[alarimer]

31. It doesn't have to be us, you know.

There are other countries that can do it. Their ships get hijacked too. Seems to me that we cannot be the world's police here.

[margotb822]

34. Funny that we rarely hear about it

What did they say on the news last night? 64 ships have been hijacked this year? Yea, it's happening to everyone. We've all got a stake in this.

[ForrestGump]

36. We don't need no steenking ships

Drop the SEALs in there with a few MREs and underwater scooters and they'll have it all cleaned up by the Third Act. I seen it in a movie.

[conscious evolution]

37. When do we invade Somalia?