If MLK Jr. was alive, I believe he would be at odds with Obama

[G_j]

about Afghanistan. If you haven' heard this speech by MLK, please give it a listen.





Martin Luther King, Jr.

Beyond Vietnam -- A Time to Break Silence

Delivered 4 April 1967, at a meeting of Clergy and Laity Concerned at Riverside Church in New York City

listen or read: http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm




Mr. Chairman, ladies and gentlemen:

I need not pause to say how very delighted I am to be here tonight, and how very delighted I am to see you expressing your concern about the issues that will be discussed tonight by turning out in such large numbers. I also want to say that I consider it a great honor to share this program with Dr. Bennett, Dr. Commager, and Rabbi Heschel, and some of the distinguished leaders and personalities of our nation. And of course it’s always good to come back to Riverside Church. Over the last eight years, I have had the privilege of preaching here almost every year in that period, and it is always a rich and rewarding experience to come to this great church and this great pulpit.

I come to this magnificent house of worship tonight because my conscience leaves me no other choice. I join you in this meeting because I am in deepest agreement with the aims and work of the organization which has brought us together: Clergy and Laymen Concerned about Vietnam. The recent statements of your executive committee are the sentiments of my own heart, and I found myself in full accord when I read its opening lines: "A time comes when silence is betrayal." And that time has come for us in relation to Vietnam.

The truth of these words is beyond doubt, but the mission to which they call us is a most difficult one. Even when pressed by the demands of inner truth, men do not easily assume the task of opposing their government's policy, especially in time of war. Nor does the human spirit move without great difficulty against all the apathy of conformist thought within one's own bosom and in the surrounding world. Moreover, when the issues at hand seem as perplexed as they often do in the case of this dreadful conflict, we are always on the verge of being mesmerized by uncertainty; but we must move on.

And some of us who have already begun to break the silence of the night have found that the calling to speak is often a vocation of agony, but we must speak. We must speak with all the humility that is appropriate to our limited vision, but we must speak. And we must rejoice as well, for surely this is the first time in our nation's history that a significant number of its religious leaders have chosen to move beyond the prophesying of smooth patriotism to the high grounds of a firm dissent based upon the mandates of conscience and the reading of history. Perhaps a new spirit is rising among us. If it is, let us trace its movements and pray that our own inner being may be sensitive to its guidance, for we are deeply in need of a new way beyond the darkness that seems so close around us.

Over the past two years, as I have moved to break the betrayal of my own silences and to speak from the burnings of my own heart, as I have called for radical departures from the destruction of Vietnam, many persons have questioned me about the wisdom of my path. At the heart of their concerns this query has often loomed large and loud: "Why are you speaking about the war, Dr. King?" "Why are you joining the voices of dissent?" "Peace and civil rights don't mix," they say. "Aren't you hurting the cause of your people," they ask? And when I hear them, though I often understand the source of their concern, I am nevertheless greatly saddened, for such questions mean that the inquirers have not really known me, my commitment or my calling. Indeed, their questions suggest that they do not know the world in which they live.

...much, much more..

[Uzybone]

1. Probably so, but he isn't alive

It's up to those who are alive to speak out. I don't like the idea of using the words of the dead to damn the living. Plus there is always a chance he may support the Afghan adventure(as most Americans do). Who knows how he might have felt about 9/11.

[G_j]

6. that seems rather silly

we turn to the words of great human beings who have passed, all the time There are many reasons: inspiration, guidance, comfort, understanding...

btw, for the record, the OP doesn't damn anybody.. LOL

[Uzybone]

10. still just speculating

projecting your thoughts on someone who cant speak for himself.

[G_j]

16. I suggest listening to the speech, if you haven't

you may not be that familiar with the body of words that he left us, and his devotion to nonviolence.
Those words leave a fairly solid foundation of thought to "speculate" on.
But yes, I said I believe, and that is speculation.

[H2O Man]

32. Respectfully disagree.

King is very specific in that speech, in noting that if US foreign policy did not make radical changes, that in the future, citizens would be protesting against other wars around the globe. The OP is on target.

[Fumesucker]

8. "Afghan Adventure"?

Seriously?

That's what you call it?

[Uzybone]

9. well we didn't declare war on anyone

its an euphemism used, not to downplay the fact that people are getting killed, but to point out that the Bush admin never declared war on Afghanistan.

Chill out.

[EFerrari]

12. I bet you those dead people don't regard this as an "adventure". n/t

[Uzybone]

14. see #9

[EFerrari]

17. I read that. How anyone can characterize what we are doing in Afghanistan

as an "adventure" is just beyond me.

[aquart]

22. I do not support the Afghan WAR.

I would have supported surgical strikes on Taliban terrorist training camps but an invasion of Afghanistan? Nuh uh. I have no interest in giving the Russians that much enjoyment.

[Uzybone]

23. I agree, invading Afghanistan was a dumb idea

Taliban and Al Qaeda should have been targeted, but no standing army.

[SammyWinstonJack]

46. I don't and never did 'support the Afghan adventure'. Likewise the Iraq 'adventure'.

:eyes:

[damntexdem]

2. MLK was a pacifist.

Obama is not. Neither am I, nor most Americans.

[Mari333]

39. enlist. nt

[lamp_shade]

3. 1967 - 2009 = 42 years. A lot of things have changed.

[Fire1]

21. Ditto!

[G_j]

25. strong principles don't change so easily,

& wars have been going on through it all, so in another way, some things don't ever change.

[cobalt1999]

4. Maybe, maybe not.

It's irrelevant anyway. MLK wasn't perfect and was wrong plenty of times.

[liberalmuse]

5. All one can do is speculate.

I guess we'll never know. :shrug:

[panader0]

7. perhaps.

I cannot claim to be a Christian, my father was Catholic, my mother Protestant. But as I understand it, killing is wrong under any circumstance. Imitation of Christ is the goal of a Christian is it not? Do not kill, turn the other cheek, walk a mile in their shoes. I know of so many "Christians" who are war hawks and gun advocates.
But the role of president is not a religious one. To protect the citizens of the US is number one to the president.
Whether messing around in Afghanistan accomplishes that is open to debate. I say no.

[G_j]

13. good points

the President is certainly not a religious post! Christians along the line of MLK, are committed to stand against killing and violence in all forms.
Thus, I believe they would be at odds. And I think it would be a good thing!

[paulsby]

18. i am sorry but no

i see no evidence for the killing is wrong under any circ's for a christian (or jew for that matter)

not in the 10 commandments (here's a hint: the translation is more properly "thou shalt not murder" iow wrongly kill or kill in an unjustified and biblical scholars will confirm this), and not in christian doctrine (see for example just war theory)

it is true that some sects of christianity believe this - quakers for instance.

[EFerrari]

11. Yes, imho, that's right. Martin's job was to point out the difficult truth.

And he did it better than anyone I've ever witnessed.

[ThomCat]

36. He would be tombstoned here for speaking the truth within a few days.

I doubt he's be allowed to last here for very long.

DU has a habit of getting rid of people that far to the left. This is a "moderate" discussion board.

[Karmadillo]

15. Thanks for posting this. Reading it through, it's hard to see MLK Jr climbing on

the Forever War bandwagon.

http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/mlkatimetobreaksilence.htm

<edit>

Love is somehow the key that unlocks the door which leads to ultimate reality. This Hindu-Muslim-Christian-Jewish-Buddhist belief about ultimate reality is beautifully summed up in the first epistle of Saint John: "Let us love one another, for love is God. And every one that loveth is born of God and knoweth God. He that loveth not knoweth not God, for God is love." "If we love one another, God dwelleth in us and his love is perfected in us." Let us hope that this spirit will become the order of the day.

We can no longer afford to worship the god of hate or bow before the altar of retaliation. The oceans of history are made turbulent by the ever-rising tides of hate. And history is cluttered with the wreckage of nations and individuals that pursued this self-defeating path of hate. As Arnold Toynbee says: "Love is the ultimate force that makes for the saving choice of life and good against the damning choice of death and evil. Therefore the first hope in our inventory must be the hope that love is going to have the last word" (unquote).

more...

[Taverner]

19. Afghanistan is a waste of lives, resources and goodwill

Seriously

If we want OBL, all we have to do is locate him, send in a surgical strike team and eliminate him

Hamid Karzai's Afghanistan is going to fall - whether we try to prop it up or not

Pakistan will probably fall soon too - this is the more pressing issue

If such thing happens, it would be nice to send a surgical strike team to eliminate the nukes

[omega minimo]

20. If MLK was alive, we wouldn't be Down The Rabbit Hole.

[BlooInBloo]

24. Sensing that they can't get enough support from the living....

The ihateobama people find themselves reduced to making up hypothetical shit about dead people, to bolster their numbers.

You guys are so fabulous.

[dionysus]

44. snap

[Fire1]

26. In reply to your OP: Not a chance.

[ProgressIn2008]

27. Yes, at odd about a lot of things. MLK spoke truth to power and opposed capitalist injustices

MLK would have a fair bit to say about banker bailouts, wiretapping, and weaponized drones.

[G_j]

28. the drones

as a matter of fact, the first drone attack after the election is what started me thinking about this.
To me that's cut and dry.

[bvar22]

29. I'm alive today,

...and I condemn the Occupation and Escalation of the War in Afghanistan.

No Military Objective + No Exit Strategy = Quagmire

I condemned it when Bush did it.
I still condemn it.

[Mari333]

41. aaaa men! nt

[paulk]

30. it's a stretch to equate Afghanistan and Vietnam

really different situations and implications.

[G_j]

31. more equating the use of military solutions

his view of nonviolence.
Many have been killed in drone attacks.

[AmyCamus]

33. The Afghan and Vietnam vets who were at Easter dinner disagree with you.

The only difference is without a draft, hardly anyone gives a fuck about Afghanistan.

[paulk]

38. the same could be said for veterans of any war

[WI_DEM]

34. Maybe, but he sure would be cheering Obama's efforts in Iraq and Cuba and in other parts of the

world as a breath of fresh air.

[EstimatedProphet]

35. Maybe he would be

He would be allowed to. That's part of the process of having a discussion.

[Orwellian_Ghost]

37. Most definitely

The types of changes both men spoke about were not only quite different but diametrically opposed. Be it foreign or domestic policy MLK as well as Malcolm would shudder that their legacies are being used in such a mass marketing fashion for political purposes that are at odds with not only their dreams but their actions.

K&R

[La Lioness Priyanka]

40. he wasnt a politician. nt

[blindpig]

42. King on Capitalism

If we are to achieve a real equality the U.S. will have to adopt a modified form of socialism.

The problem of racism, the problem of exploitation, and the problem of war are all tied together. These are the triple evils that are interrelated.

Your whole structure must be changed. A nation that will keep people in slavery for 244 years will thingify them -- make them things. Therefore they will exploit them, and poor people generally, economically. And a nation that will exploit economically will have foreign investments and everything else, and will have to use its military to protect them. All of these problems are tied together.

What I am saying today is that we must go from this convention and say, America, you must be born again!

In the thinking of that day, the absence of worldly goods indicated a want of industrious habits and moral fiber. We've come a long way in our understanding of human motivation and of the blind operation of our economic system. Now we realize that dislocations in the market operations of our economy and the prevalence of discrimination thrust people into idleness and bind them in constant or frequent unemployment against their will.

He is deprived of normal education and normal social and economic opportunities. When he seeks opportunities,he is told, in effect, to lift himself up by his own bootstraps,advice which does not take into account the fact that he is barefoot.

If our nation can spend thirty-five billion dollars a year to fight an unjust, evil war in Vietnam, and twenty billion dollars to put a man on the moon, it can spend billions of dollars to put God's children on their own two feet right here on earth.

The movement must address itself to the question of restructuring the whole of American society. There are forty million poor people here. And one day we must ask the question, Why are there forty million poor people in America? And when you begin to ask that question, you are raising questions about the economic system, about a broader distribution of wealth. When you ask that question, you begin to question the capitalistic economy. And I'm simply saying that more and more, we've got to begin to ask questions about the whole society. We are called upon to help the discouraged beggars in life's marketplace. But one day we must come to see that an edifice which produces beggars needs restructuring. It means that questions must be raised. You see, my friends, when you deal with this, you begin to ask the question, Who owns the oil? You begin to ask the question, Who owns the iron ore? You begin to ask the question, Why is it that people have to pay water bills in a world that is two-thirds water? These are questions that must be asked.

We must rapidly begin the shift from a ‘thing'-oriented society to a person-oriented society. When machines and computers, profit motives and property rights, are considered more important than people, the giant triplets of racism, materialism and militarism are incapable of being conquered.

The dispossessed of this country the poor, the white and Negro live in a cruelly unjust society. they must organize a revolution against that injustice, not against the lives of the persons who are their fellow citizens,but against the structures through which society is refusing to take means which have been called for,and which are at hand, to lift the load of poverty.

We have a task and let us go out with a divine dissatisfaction. Let us be dissatisfied until America will no longer have a high blood pressure of creeds and an anemia of deeds. Let us be dissatisfied until the tragic walls that separate the outer city of wealth and comfort and the inner city of poverty and despair shall be crushed by the battering rams of the forces of justice.

http://www.awitness.org/column/unknown_martin_luther_king.html

Small wonder they killed him, a dangerous man.

[G_j]

47. excellent

what a great mind (& heart)!

[mimitabby]

43. nah

[RT Atlanta]

45. thank you

that speech cannot be listened to enough as far as I am concerned. Should be "required listening" for children in school.

[G_j]

48. yes, LISTENED to, especially

the audio brings tears to my eyes..