Is "homeland" an appropriate term for the United States?

[mix]

Poll question: Is "homeland" an appropriate term for the United States?

For me, it is too volkisch, too similar to Heimatland and Vaterland.

Where did this term come from and why has it become a part of our national lexicon? Do you use it in daily conversation?

Will it ever go away or has it stuck because of the Department of Homeland Security?

[stillcool]

1. I've never used it..

and never heard of it in reference to the contiguous United States..which I'm assuming is what it means?

[Taverner]

4. Der Homeland is der Volksfront

:P

Seriously, the National Socialism connection is too obvious to be denied

[MrSlayer]

2. It's a bit too close to "Fatherland" for my taste.

I've never heard anyone use the term in an actual conversation though. People do not usually speak that way.

[mix]

23. It is sinister and exclusionary, classically Bush n/t

[onenote]

48. and yet it wasn't Bush who came up with the term. It was Gary Hart and Warren Rudman

[mix]

72. Hart and Rudman were thoughtless in choosing the term.

It was a dire rhetorical mistake that reflects what is worst in our society.
And Bush in his inimitable way gave it its toxic, exclusionary, and jingoistic edge.
Just a bad choice all around.

[Tesha]

66. Well, people *DID* use it that way, but...

even in South Africa, they were (eventually) kicked
out of power.

Tesha

[Hekate]

3. Deutschland, Deutschland, uber alles.... ummmm, no. nt

[hobbit709]

5. It came from the neocon fascists after 9-11.

[onenote]

51. wrong.

Came from the Hart-Rudman Commission on National Security pre 9/11
http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/Hart-Rudman3.pdf

[hobbit709]

55. But it wasn't publicly bandied about until after 9-11

[onenote]

58. the hart-rudman commission report wasn't a secret

it didn't get a lot of publicity until after 9/11, But it was their recommendation that was picked up on and followed.

[hobbit709]

59. Difference between public record and 24/7 yammering.

[onenote]

61. Doesn't change who originated the term

and that it was merely Congress following that recommendation.

Did anyone in COngress speak out against using the recommended term?

I don't think so.

I don't much care for the term, but as I've said, I am not going to distort history to hide its origins.

[kestrel91316]

6. NO ONE that I know of uses it in common speech. I wouldn't use it

if you paid me. Smacks way too much of "Vaterland" for my tastes.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

7. It gives me the friggin' creeps when I hear it said. nt

[GTurck]

56. Second that...

Ever since it has come into use by the previous (and unlamented) administration I have cringed especially when used by those smart enough to understand its meaning. I have lived 66 years and never heard this term anywhere.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

60. I'm 57 and the same for me. When fascist jargon and newspeak entered the lexicon

with the Shrub and gang, frankly, I wasn't surprised but I found it chilling.

[IDemo]

8. Nein

[mix]

12. lol

[WestSeattle2]

9. No, it was a term used to incite fear, nothing more. It's silly. eom

[Muttocracy]

10. "Nation" was perfectly adequate - problem was our National Security Advisor. nt

[Democrats_win]

11. "Funny, I thought it would sound better in the original German." Pat Buchanan

Is it just me or does his name remind you of banana?

[Cirque du So-What]

13. Why the hell doesn't 'domestic' work just as well?

I guess the neocons feel it's necessary to differentiate between the 'homeland' and the lands conquered in the quest for empire - the 'colonies.'

[Canuckistanian]

14. Does "Heimat" have negative connotations in Germany?

I always perceived it to be a sentimental term, almost like a fierce love of your local area.

[mix]

15. I am not certain if it does or if it has fallen out of use in Germany today,

but it does have a Nazi connotation. Maybe someone who knows Germany would be able to answer this.

[Hekate]

29. The connotation has always been of countries that are of a single racial and cultural heritage...

WE, the United States of America, are an inherently diverse nation that has decided deliberately to hang together. E Pluribus Unum: Out of Many, One. WE have always called ourselves a nation or a country.

In the Old Countries people referred to the lands where their ethnic group had resided for a thousand years or more as Fatherland or Motherland or Homeland.

I think how badly Bush's use of the term "The Homeland" set one's teeth on edge may be a function of age. I was born after WW II, but it was still all around us. Movies and comic books, even the funny pages in the newspaper, were full of stock villains from the Nazi Party. "The Homeland" was one of the terms for the Third Reich, self-chosen by the Germans along with "Fatherland." "Are your papers in order? Hand them over," was another genuine Nazi phrase, with the recipient cowering before menacing uniformed figures, sweating it out hoping not to be yanked off the railroad train. That shit was real, not just for the movies, as anyone who lived in Europe during those years could tell you.

The last 8 years have been a nightmare on so many levels....

Hekate

[mix]

33. beautifully put, that is why it inherently grates on most people

by the way I'm from Carpinteria, miss the coast and the waves.

[Hekate]

36. If I moved away from the Central Coast I'd miss it too. Carp is nice.

:hi:

Hekate

[omega minimo]

69. Carpinteria is a magical place. How does it feel to be landlocked? Kinda scary?

[bemildred]

16. You need a "F**K NO" option.

But yeah.

[mix]

18. done n/t

[bemildred]

19. Too late for me, but thanks. nt

[juno jones]

62. But not for me. Thank you for including that.

Fuck no.

[doctor jazz]

17. You put 3 questions in the post but my response to the subject line is no.

...

[santamargarita]

20. Everything that happened under Bush inherently sucks

:puke:

[InkAddict]

21. Yuck, it makes me think of Julie Andrews' Edelweiss

from Sound of Music - sweet and sappy.

[MADem]

22. We did fine with "NATION" since the days of George Washington

who, for the purposes of this discussion, we'll call the GREATER George.

Pity it took the LESSER, nay, the LEAST George to fuck that up. So fuck no, it is!

[Hekate]

30. Pres. Washington is George the Great. George Bush Sr is just Bush. GWB is Bush the Lesser.

You're welcome. :hi:

Hekate

[morgan2]

24. its an awful term

meant to stoke nationalism.

[peace13]

25. I voted no but i will add....

Maybe...if you are naming it with the American Indians in mind!

[liberal N proud]

26. The term makes me ill

:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

[aquart]

27. I NEVER WANT TO HEAR THAT WORD AGAIN!

The United States is my COUNTRY.

[trayfoot]

28. I haven't liked it since its introduction - does NOT suit the U.S.

[pnwmom]

31. Where did it come from? From the Dept. of Homeland Security. It was a Bush

administration tactic designed to instill fear.

I hate it too.

[ixion]

32. exactly, and me, too

:puke:

[onenote]

49. Wrong. It was the product of a pre 9/11 recommendation by the Hart-Rudman Commission

I'm not a fan of the term, but I'm not going to distort history either

[emilyg]

34. No.

[NoSheep]

35. No.

[Blue_In_AK]

37. absolutely not.

I've hated that term ever since the Bushes started using it.

[backscatter712]

38. It's a fascist term.

It frames things in the fascist "us-versus-them" mindset - the Homeland (TM) versus the "Otherland". Very Orwellian.

The term needs to go.

[mix]

39. "Yes" people

tell us why you like the term...that would interest me.

[onenote]

50. i don't like or dislike it

I don't recall a lot of belly aching about the term when it first surfaced pre 9/11 in a report on national security prepared for Congress by the (Gary)Hart/(Warren) Rudman Commission.

[Kitty Herder]

40. Not only does it sound fascist,

it's a poor term for people of predominantly European descent, like myself, to be using about a land to which we are not native, and that we stole from its native inhabitants through an act of genocide.

Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's how I see it.

[omega minimo]

41. Yes if we are a Nazi republic

:patriot:

[TexasObserver]

42. Homeland, Fatherland, Motherland - all portend jingoism.

[timtom]

43. I, of course voted, "F**k no!"

And if the exclamation isn't in the original poll selection, it is still what I intended!

[uppityperson]

44. I voted f* no. It always reminded me of South Africa and arpartheid. nt

[Vinca]

45. I despise the term. Every time I hear it I think of Hitler.

[ForrestGump]

46. Not at all. They would have been more honest naming it the far more appropriate

Reich.

[onenote]

47. it came from Gary Hart and Warren Rudman -- before 9/11

http://www.cfr.org/content/publications/attachments/Hart-Rudman3.pdf

The Hart-Rudman report, submitted to Congress in 2000, recommended the establishment of a National Homeland Security Agency.

[mix]

57. Thanks for the research

I did not know that it had bi-partisan origins. Has anyone ever asked Hart or Rudman why they chose that term?

[Control-Z]

52. I clicked no

then saw the F**K no option and went back to correct myself.

To me, it is the post 911, Bush initiates the destruction our country, term. I hate it and will never use it.

[juno jones]

63. Same here.

:) My first reaction was F NO! and expected only to see a mild 'no' as a response. Upon seeing the expletive in all it's glory I replied joyfully; Fucking-A!!!

[Postman]

53. I prefer ....Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Ein Fuhrer...

:sarcasm:

[bdamomma]

54. we have to scrap that term, bush speak must go.

[Aristus]

64. I remember that it was only a few months after the whole "Homeland Security" thing was passed

into law that some TV show about Federal agents started using the term "HomeSec". I thought: "Great. It's already got a cute nickname smacking of breezy familiarity!" :eyes:

That, or scarily NewSpeak sounding... :scared::hide:

[Initech]

65. It's a very NAZI sounding term.

[Echo In Light]

67. Chosen and used by people in our govt who are of the same fascist mindset

[onenote]

68. people like Gary Hart and Bill Clinton?

Just because you didn't notice doesn't mean the term homeland wasn't being used by the government before 9/11. It was used by President Clinton in a 1998 presidential directive entitled "Protection Against Unconventional Threats to the Homeland and Americans Overseas." And the recommendation to create a department of homeland security was found in the per 9/11 report of the Hart-Rudman Commission.

http://biotech.law.lsu.edu/blaw/general/pdd62.htm


As I've said elsewhere on this thread, I'm no fan of the term "homeland" but I'm not going to distort history by ignoring its origins.

[Echo In Light]

70. Huge difference between its use in a directive 10 yrs ago vs 24/7 usage in mass media...

...as a means of conditioning the public mind. Although I acknowledge that the intent to use the guise of terrorism for all sorts of nefarious corporate/state activity was ongoing while Clinton held office.

[onenote]

71. wrong. It was the product of a pre 9/11 recommendation by the Hart-Rudman Commission

its part of a continuum. It was used after 9/11 because congress voted to adopt the Hart-Rudman Commission's recommendation to create a separate homeland security department. I don't recall any Democrats in Congress objecting to the term, either.