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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:42 PM
Original message
Crisis may force Obama to go with singlepayer
Edited on Wed Apr-15-09 08:48 PM by maryf
www.dollarsandsense.org/archives/2009/0309bybee.html

Crisis = Opportunity for Single-Payer
Fiscal crises may force Obama to save costs via a single-payer plan.

By Roger Bybee
<snip>the budget wreckage left by the Bush years, the federal government’s fiscal demands are exploding. Health care reform faces daunting competition from a $787 billion stimulus package; the president’s $72 billion decision to delay repealing the Bush tax cuts for high earners; a Wall Street, bank, and insurance company bailout at $700 billion to date and likely to grow; and the ongoing Iraq and Afghanistan wars, together costing $170 billion in “extra” defense spending in FY2009.
<snip>
Still, a leading advocate of the Obama plan, political scientist Jacob Hacker, argues that it can be billed as an important economic stimulus and thus escape the fierce budgetary competition. In December, Hacker cheerfully declared in The New Republic that the Obama plan offers nothing less than a “magic bullet” that will yield “short-term spending and long-term saving”—a perfect combination as the economy moves deeper into recession.

However, it is likely that Hacker seriously overstates the long-term savings while underestimating the clash of government priorities that lies just ahead. First, Obama-style individual mandate plans have run aground in at least six states that have tried them. With no mechanism to control the premiums charged by private insurers, the ever-higher cost of subsidizing low-income residents’ premiums soon exhausts available funds. Nor will sufficient savings be derived from Obama’s plan for electronic recordkeeping and more treatment of chronic illness, recent studies by the Congressional Budget Office and others suggest.

To many, a single-payer plan is the obvious way to ensure universal health coverage while containing costs. In addition to the dramatic reduction in administrative costs, single-payer plans offer other opportunities for controlling costs. For instance, they allow government—the “single payer” —to negotiate for lower costs with providers like doctors, hospitals, and pharmaceutical companies.

Unfortunately, Obama’s statements and key appointments suggest he has already disqualified single-payer as a serious option.

Tom Daschle, tapped for Health and Human Services secretary and “point man” on the health care reform effort until tax problems forced him to withdraw his name in February, appeared unwilling to let the private insurance industry go. His basic policy direction emerged in an interview last May. In a remark that seems staggering in hindsight, Daschle said, “And I would ask the question, if you think our banking system today is reasonably regulated, why not try the same model for our health-care system?”

<snip>

Promoted by this kind of team, Obama’s health-care plan could prove to be the most vulnerable component of his domestic program. The Republicans feel confident about their ability to brand Obama’s plan as overly complex and a threat to consumer choice in medical care, as they did so successfully with the Clinton plan in the 1990s.

The Obama plan’s “pay or play” component, giving employers a choice between insuring their employees or paying a tax to help finance the government plan, will no doubt open it up to conservative criticism as a coercive, big-government program. This line may also strike a chord among moderate-income citizens who earn too much to qualify for a subsidy and consequently lose enthusiasm for reform once they start to pay mandatory health premiums.

The single-payer approach, on the other hand, would disarm many of the most explosive Republican arguments. It is far less costly to both employers and individuals—nearly 50% lower per person in Canada than the United States, for instance—and there is no billing of patients or other complexity. Every citizen enjoys the right to health care and a free choice of doctors and hospitals. Start-up costs would be minimal, especially if Medicare were simply expanded to cover the entire public.

Back in 2003, Barack Obama told the Illinois AFL-CIO: “I happen to be a proponent of a single-payer universal health care program. I see no reason why the United States of America, the wealthiest country in the history of the world, spending 14% of its Gross National Product on health care, cannot provide basic health insurance to everybody . . . a single-payer health care plan, a universal health care plan. And that’s what I’d like to see. But as all of you know, we may not get there immediately. Because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate, and we have to take back the House.”

Now that Obama himself occupies the White House and health care costs consume nearly 17% of GNP, the new president may rediscover that single-payer is the truly pragmatic course on health care reform. Hemmed in on all sides by the enormous costs facing the federal government, Obama may find—despite his misgivings—that pursuing a single-payer reform plan is the sole means of creating a low-cost and appealing alternative to the health-care status quo.


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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good. k&r n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
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foxfeet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. +1
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
12. each +1 makes a grassroot!!
thanks!
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. Thanks!! keep his feet to the fire on this!
:)
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DavidDvorkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
3. Let's hope
A bill aimed at creating single-payer health care at the state level was just killed in the Colorado Senate. Very frustrating.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. but both Maine and New Hampshire legislatures
Have endorsed HR 676!!
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
4. Hopefully it will force Congress...
to vote for it. There are now three single-payer bills that have been introduced. I'm sure this whole tea-bagger thing was to get people against the budget. Should be interesting to see how many people here will be against the budget.
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:45 PM
Response to Reply #4
30. The budget is already toast, imo.
I think it was dead on arrival.
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stillcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #30
69. My representatives will be voting for it...
I guess not yours?
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bluethruandthru Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
5. This is the god's honest truth!
Now is the time to get Universal Single Payer done. Let the wing nuts scream socialism all they want. They'll all shut up when they all have health care at half the cost.
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Call them out as being "anti-social" if they do...
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. We have public education, public roads, the post office, fire department...
tell them its a public system just like these!!!
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roamer65 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
6. While it needs to be done, we need to get ready for the medical-industrial complex onslaught.
They will not go easily.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. The voice of the people...
needs to get very loud, for sure! the grassroots are taking hold write your congressman, ask them to endorse HR 676, check out www.pnhp.org for lots of info!!
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #9
39. I have written and my Congressman is on-board.
I still plan on writing again.

We need to keep the pressure up on this issue.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:30 PM
Response to Reply #39
71. Thank you so much!
and kudos to your congressman!
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
57. You said a mouthful, roamer
The voice and will of the people are swiftly drowned out when the medical corporatists crank up the noise machine. And sadly, the latter is the noise Congress hears and acts on. I have little hope for single payer, much as I would love to see it come about.
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MasonJar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
13. Why is he now so intent on saving insurance companies + banks
and insurance cos. like AIG, and Wall Street financiers, all of whom made themselves filthy rich and are now being bailed out because the government deregulated them and they are a bunch of avaricious crooks?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Good question...
Keep asking it...regarding single payer, don't forget the battle with big pharma too...
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:27 AM
Response to Reply #13
42. So the CIA won't assassinate him, maybe? nt
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #42
48. K&R The entire military and intelligence
services of the U.S.A. exist to protect corporate interests anyway, so you might not be far off.
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valerief Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. My rule of thumb is, what would the Mafia do? Then I apply that to Corporate Merka. nt
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #52
65. Good rule of thumb. nt
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
15. Good- Maybe Something Good Will Come of This Mess
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bajamary Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:16 PM
Response to Original message
16. Ain't goin' to happen
Oh how I wish Obama would back a single payer - national health care - such as medicare or the fabulous health insurance that members of the Congress and the President enjoy. Oh, ya that we all pay for - but we can't access. Some irony.

But it ain't goin' to happen - ever - as the Corporate Democrats (Emanuel-Geithenr-Summers et al) have an iron grip on my Mr. O.

I am uninsurable with private insurance because of my breast cancer. I now have the IL health insurance that the State of IL provides to the uninsurable. But it costs me $20,000 a year and that does not cover my medications and many other expensive medical tests.


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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. It will if we make it!!
As Margaret Mead said: "A small group of thoughtful people could change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has."

Join the grassroots movement...good place to start www.pnhp.org and they may be able to lead you to more help...

...keep telling your story to your representative, they are starting to listen...Be well this is for you and all like you! :hug:
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. But we already DID make it. That is what we elected
Obama for! I am just getting tired of having to keep on fighting and not getting what we are supposed to have, it is very disheartening!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:21 AM
Response to Reply #23
35. Obama isn't the main target for pressure on this. Push *congress*.
Sure, pressure Obama too... but the real action is in congress... push them HARD and constantly on this.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #17
58. Bang that drum, mary
It would be wonderful if your optimism was rewarded with action. But I doubt it will be.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. My heart goes out to you. But it could be worse. Someone
I know (I have no proof of this yet) just told me that Britain has decided to STOP treating anyone with stage four breast cancer. Cost.

Now I know Britain has some awful stuff in their national health care and I am taking this with a grain until I see proof but geez..................

You hang in there! I'm stage four cancer too! (spread to the bone)
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PHIMG Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #16
27. When the people lead, the leaders will follow
Obama needs us to FORCE HIS HAND.

We can spend time messing around for the "public option" or we can get out in the street and demand single payer.

You never get anything given to you by politicians. You have to take it from them.

It's time for every progressive, liberal, uninsured, underinsured, everyone victimized by the privave insurers to RISE UP and demand REAL REFORM.

YES WE CAN!
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:22 AM
Response to Reply #27
36. Exactly! Demand this from congress...
demand it from Obama... demand it and tell others why they should be demanding it too. Anyone who'll listen. Anyone who gives you an opening by mentioning anything at all about healthcare.
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galloglas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:53 PM
Response to Original message
18. I hope so !! n/t
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TBF Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 09:56 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R n/t
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TankLV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
20. From their lips to Obama's ears!!!
Single payer, government funded, NOT INSURANCE, health CARE is the ONLY way to go...!!!

That is one point I strongly disagree with Obama on, and am confident that will come to pass SOONER than he planned!!!
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 10:57 PM
Response to Original message
21. I'll believe it when I see ALL insurance companies
dismantled.
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PHIMG Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:37 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Will be a beautiful day.
Just think of the weight lifted off the insurance company employees when they get retrained and placed working for HHS and they no longer have to earn thier living denying care to the sick and injured.

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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #21
37. I don't believe that's how it works. (nt)
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #37
64. It HAS to.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 09:12 AM
Response to Reply #64
76. Is there any other country who started single payer in such a way?
Canada gradually introduced it... not sure about others.

I think the 'all or nothing' approach would be doomed to failure if insisted upon here.
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #76
77. Then we will STILL have the "insurance companies" sucking
us dry and we will never have a decent single payer system. IF the insurance companies are all the reason why we're spending so much, get rid of them! It's that simple, no?
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:47 PM
Response to Reply #77
78. No. (nt)
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JeanGrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-18-09 04:27 AM
Response to Reply #78
85. Yes it is. We cannot have these huge private insurance
companies with single payer.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
24. thanks i saved that obama quote and will use it on every health care petition i get
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #24
81. Thats great!
sorry to take so long to see this!!
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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PHIMG Donating Member (814 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:30 PM
Response to Original message
26. Top Reasons why Private Health Insurance Must Go!
Bloody Hands.
Private Insurers make self-interested and arbitrary claim and coverage denials relegating many to premature death.

Restrict Choice.
Private Insurers restrict medical consumers’ choice in medical providers, inhibiting the proper function of the free market in medical services and enabling bad providers to thrive.

Adds Complexity.
Over 1,200 Private Insurance bureaucracies complicate and impede the practice of medicine with differing and often conflicting billing and administrative policies.

Drains Resources.
Nearly 30% of the healthcare spending funneled through health insurance middlemen is wasted on profit taking, underwriting, executive compensation and other unnecessary expense and waste.

Squanders Expertise.
Our current health care model diverts providers' attention from "how to heal" to "how to get compensated" by the shameless insurers.

Manipulates the Media.
Private Insurers exert a level of editorial control over the media via advertising purchases.

Corrupts Our Politics. Private Insurers manipulate elected officials with campaign donations, plum corporate jobs, and an army of lobbyists.

Brainwashes the Populace.
Private Insurers use paid media to lie directly to the populace, leveraging fear tactics and other highly sophisticated propaganda campaigns in order to evade accountability for the consequences of their actions and protect the status quo.

Restricts Debate.
Private Insurers’ media and political operatives dishonestly malign genuine reform as “politically infeasible” in order to limit the debate to industry-blessed half measures.

Bottom line? Private Health Insurance Must Go!
Reform proposals that do not remove private insurers from our healthcare system are morally unacceptable, fiscally irresponsible, and unsustainable even in the near term. These “mandate and subsidize” proposals are not well meaning attempts at realism by so-called centrists. They are a sinister attempt to marginalize the opportunity our country has at this defining moment to sideline the private insurers and move to a healthcare system that works – publicly funded and privately provided Medicare for all, as implemented in HR 676 – The United States National Health Care Act.










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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:07 PM
Response to Reply #26
49. +10!
You nailed it!
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Apr-15-09 11:36 PM
Response to Original message
28. that's obama's plan. always five steps ahead.
going after bush by defending him in court. so sly.
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Omnibus Donating Member (676 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
31. Single payer? Oh, NO!
PLEASE don't throw this poor taxpayer in that briar patch, Br'er Fox!
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
32. K&R
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
33. It will happen if we make it happen
That means frequent calls and letters to the White House and to Congresscritters.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:20 AM
Response to Original message
34. I hope we're all pouring the pressure on.
Demand it... please.
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DevonRex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:24 AM
Response to Original message
38. Since Obama has said that if he could start from scratch he'd want single payer,
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 10:25 AM by DevonRex
then I would phrase this differently. I'd say that this crisis may ALLOW us to go single payer.
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Bette Noir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
40. Mr. President needs a Road to Damascus moment,
a sudden realization that there is exactly one right thing to do. He's reluctant to alienate the conservative and corporate interests that think private insurance is a good thing, but we have to keep trying to convince him. Please, everybody, write him with your own stories of the evil that is private health insurance. I have.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:14 AM
Response to Original message
41. That and our unrelenting grass roots efforts to pressure him in that
direction.
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:41 AM
Response to Original message
43. this had passed over my head:
the president’s $72 billion decision to delay repealing the Bush tax cuts for high earners;

when did that happen?
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aquamarina Donating Member (772 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:45 AM
Response to Original message
44. we can only hope.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
45. I hope so! Don't forget Howard Dean's petition to include a National Health
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 11:58 AM by Phoebe Loosinhouse
in any solution that comes up.

standwithdrdean.com

I'm sorry to see that they still have not put a counter on the number of signatures they have collected so far.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 12:17 PM
Response to Original message
46. Kick
:kick:
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McCamy Taylor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
47. K&R
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
50. K&R nt
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Deja Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. GM complains health insurance costs are too expensive...
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 02:13 PM by Deja Q
Relieve that burden and then it's no longer a problem.

:shrug:

We're a developed country; one that lacks the niceties Europe takes for granted. Seems a bit silly... IMHO... (the last I checked, even our 'official' unemployment rate is higher than France's... unofficially I suspect ours is much higher...)
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Better Believe It Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:29 PM
Response to Original message
53. K & R He needs to do that soon.
Does everyone think that President Obama is prepared to take on the insurance industry and Wall Street?

I hope so.

That's the kind of change we can believe in.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
54. I have a friend who works for one of the large clinic/hospital chains in the area
They have been informed that there will be no raises or bonuses this year because the patients are staying away.

Per the doctors she works with who also are in private practice the main cause of this is not because laid off people have lost their coverage (though that doesn't help), it's the high out-of-pocket expense insurance policies many employers are going to that is causing the problem. The MDs are hearing from more and more of their patients that they can't afford to have this or that done. Even the preventative procedures, that still tend to be covered are being done less often because the patient feels they won't be able to do anything if the tests do come back with results that require follow up.

The day surgery center where she works is laying people off because elective surgeries are not being done And, contrary to the insurance company attitudes, elective sugery isn't "luxury surgery", it's just not an urgent situation. (Remember this the next time someone tells you you'll wait 6 months for a hip replacement in Canada - in the U.S. you may wait until you die.)

Ironically, they are admitting more patients and the ones they're admitting are sicker - mainly because they haven't been getting the routine maintenance they need.

She says the only up side to this is she's hearing more physicians muttereing about the need for a single payer system. Eventually we may even get the AMA on our side.

I told her to email this to her senator and the White House. Maybe Obama will listen if we can get it through to him that having insurance doesn't mean you'll have health care.
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
55. Make him do it!
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BlueIdaho Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 03:30 PM
Response to Original message
56. The best way to get to single payer is through choice.
Telling anyone they can't have something is the best way to make sure they really want it. If we offer a choice between traditional insurance companies and a well run, highly organized, smart national health care system - people will move to the national system by choice and the for-profit companies will fall by the wayside. Just be sure the public plan offers portability, easy access to doctors, reduced RX costs, and low monthly premiums and people will run, not walk, away from the greedy bastards that pretend to care about our well being.
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dpbrown Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:14 PM
Response to Original message
59. Keep the pressure on!

We won't get it if we're not loud.


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LaPera Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:17 PM
Response to Original message
60. Yes, single payer Universal Health Care for all, including YOU!
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
61. I hope so. Then, watch people make their exodus out of large corporations.
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 05:24 PM by davidwparker
I would work for a small consultancy (or start my own) if it were not for health care.
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GreenTea Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
62. Let's make it happen....We truly need single payer....It's going to be a tough fight, we have to
Edited on Thu Apr-16-09 07:16 PM by GreenTea
hang in there to the end and fight against insurance corporations, AMA, republicans Pharmaceutical corporations and all the peripheral corporations making fortunes from our tax dollars for single payer Universal health Care!
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 06:40 PM
Response to Original message
63. I don't get his logic here
"Still, a leading advocate of the Obama plan, political scientist Jacob Hacker, argues that it can be billed as an important economic stimulus and thus escape the fierce budgetary competition."

The reason they want it in the budget is that they want to pass the budget with a provision that alows them to pass the healthcare bill in the "reconciliation" process - requiring 50 votes rather than 60 - as the stimulus needed. Why woud it be advantageous to pass it as a stimulus bill?
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #63
72. I am economically challenged...
But seems to me the money people will not have to shell out for healthcare with this bill will certainly allow them to spend it elsewhere, a trickle up effect?
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
74. "single payer" does not often mean that it is free
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 09:34 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. Of course its not free...
but it is significantly cheaper than any other program, and the cost is progressive, the less you make the less you have to put in, with the poor having to pay nothing. Plus the money saved on copays, script, and limits can be astronomical. Its basically very similar to medicaid, except all will be eligible...47 million without healthcare is a pretty huge number, and we all pay for their care now one way or the other, (and I don't begrudge these people at all, but I do the capitalistic system that makes a profit off people's illness) the right to healthcare is one of the universal human rights after all. Singlepayer will also save huge as people will go to the doctor when they have something minor rather than waiting for it to turn into something major...
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
66. Thanks to all for comments
and K&R's, after a long day, it was very gratifying to see how strong the grassroots, including those questioning is as indicated here!! Health care costs is the number one reason for bankruptcy, even for those who had insurance, copays and limits are horrible, as pointed out here; and these bankruptcies cause can cause a spiral into deep poverty and even homelessness. Thanks!
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SmileyRose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
67. Only an idiot would spend 17% of GDP on healthcare when we could be spending 12% or less.
Obama has to sell it on the merits of the cash - the morally right thing to do will never fly with America. Show America we can ***ALL*** have Medicare for about the same cash we are currently all spending on medical care for just seniors, poor kids, the disabled and gov't employees. Then be very specific about how that can happen.

For instance show what we are spending on prescriptions for all the above groups and then show what America as a whole will spend on prescriptions, mostly generics, on meds with bulk buys for the country as a whole. Show what we spend on ER visits because people have no primary care doctor, and then show what it will cost to give everyone in America a yearly physical instead.

We'll have to prove it by the numbers.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:01 PM
Response to Original message
68. K&R I can only hope that the President will come to this conclusion.
:kick:
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Kip Humphrey Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:24 PM
Response to Original message
70. I've been saying all along that single-payer not-for-profit healthcare would be the single biggest
stimulus for both business and individuals possible.
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maryf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Apr-16-09 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
73. I can't believe I forgot to mention here, April 15th was call in day for single payer!
But everyday can be, call, write, email, fax your reps on this and any issue which will pull the people up!!
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dysfunctional press Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 02:56 PM
Response to Original message
79. the repugs will fight any effort tooth-and-nail. they know that if the Democrats can enact it...
it will doom the gop to a Loooooong bout with total insignificance, as far as the electorate is concerned.
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robertpaulsen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 04:41 PM
Response to Original message
80. I thought this article "Public health and the episteme of growth" might be appropriate here.
Public health and the episteme of growth
by Dan Bednarz

snip

In summary, I suggest that Robert Costanza (2009), along with other ecological economists, offers an integrated understanding of the way out of the Bad Money and the Bottleneck dilemma.

“The current financial meltdown is the result of under-regulated markets built on an ideology of free market capitalism and unlimited economic growth. The fundamental problem is that the underlying assumptions of this ideology are not consistent with what we now know about the real state of the world.”**

Where does this leave public health?

Academic public health is ensconced in an institutional matrix of growth. It owes much of its existence to the socioeconomic expansion petroleum facilitated during the 20th century. Schools of public health are supported by government and foundation grants. That is to say, faculty members, even those with tenure, have anywhere from 50% to upwards of 80% of their salaries provided by “soft money” support –translation: no grants, no jobs. Obviously, most of these scholars must do research on topics for which there is funding; this system works when an economy is expanding. However, with many universities now imposing hiring and salary freezes, and the federal government and foundations facing extraordinary fiscal decline, it is likely that schools of public health will contract -lay off faculty and staff- or even close in coming years.

At the local level, where the rubber meets the road, a different dynamic is at play. There are indications from my interviews that health department directors will organize and exercise their “Voice” option (Hirschman 1970) as a response to the decline of the public health system. It is possible they will contribute to creating a low-energy, sustainable, and community-integrated public health system. This will not be easy, but it is a milieu where human ingenuity can blossom.

Finally, the best option I see for academic public health is to reorganize itself around a question that will join it to the existential reality of the practice community it was founded to serve: “If growth and economic development as they have been understood are no longer possible, then what kind of public health system is sustainable?”

http://www.energybulletin.net/node/48462
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
82. I have a question. Would single payer work like Car Insurance, where you have to have it even if
You can't afford the Insurance?
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Fireweed247 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 09:14 PM
Response to Reply #82
83. no, everyone would be covered-everyone-medical, dental, mental health, long term care
and it should certainly lower car insurance rates considering most of what we pay for car insurance is to cover the cost of an injury.




Now is the Time: DEMAND Not-For-Profit Health Care!
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x5480756
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sarcasmo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-17-09 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. Good news. I was worried they would work it like auto insurance, Thanks.
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