Yesterday showed how bad our education system is

[Johonny]

Basically the whole demonstration had no point. Almost all the concepts expressed by the people demonstrating were in error. Most of the errors showed a terrible lack of understanding in what is America and how the American political system was founded and works. These people showed they don't understand:
A) History. The historical reasons for the revolution and the meaning of no taxation without representation are some how the basis for this farce?
B) How the Tax code works.
C) Economics. This covers a huge range of rather simple concepts
The Fed, deficit spending, budget history, tax cuts and their effects on job creation, the gold standard
D) Differences in political systems such as what is fascism, socialism, communism
E) Religion. Either Obama is a Christian with a crazy wacko left wing preacher, or a secret Muslim.
F) How society works and why we made it work that way. Why don't we have a libertarian society where everyone builds their own roads, inspects their own food, regulates their own bank, makes their own power plant.

Really this comes back to A). Because in my school A was the class that taught all these things under a pretty broad range of classes from 7-12 grade. It's kind of sad so many people clearly never learned any of this in school. This is basic stuff every citizen should know.

[seemslikeadream]

1. Real history is not taught in schools

[Echo In Light]

4. True, that. But definitely re-introduce civics classes, and starting at lower grades

[seabeyond]

6. my kids have been doing history since first grade. my kids kick ass in knowing all this stuff

so much they beat up dad and i cause we have been out of school for 3 decades. i love listening to my kids show off all they know, nah... know show off, but discuss and talk about it. love it

but it is in the schools

and we have all the stuff at home, kids find it an interesting read

it is in the parents teaching and enthusiasm for learning, not the schools. they provide, kids take or dont

[Echo In Light]

23. Our elementary age daughter has gotten far more insight into the sociopolitical at home...

...than in school. The best way is to use everyday examples of situations and viewpoints she comes into contact with, and offer her context as to what the various underpinnings are and represent. The crucial aspect of course is simply being able to acknowledge injustices, be they petty or otherwise - it's when people are conditioned to abide their timidity, and/or turn a blind eye...people are conditioned with that while growing up, so the degree of indifference, uniformity and indoctrination in adults isn't surprising in the least.

[seabeyond]

24. in sociopolitical, sure. they are more into history 101 until the higher grades.

which is fair enough. but even at that, i wont say the school refused to educate or explore the subject at the youngest of ages. they have always been receptive to not only kids interest in political history, but the other kids too... they have been exceptionally good at allowing kids to explore this stuff, prinicipal promotes it. of course kids learn way more of this shit at home, but then i never felt nor allowed school to take over all education of my child. i knew it wouldnt be enough, nor would it hit what i felt important. lots of education at on home all subjects

but kids certainly have history in school today.

[Johonny]

32. "real" history is tough

Basically historical investigations are science with basically only one chance at the experiment. Something happen but how we know what happen depends a lot on who tells us what happen. Historians are limited in understanding historical events based on what information has survived. The older the events the less documentation survives. Thus history is often very open to individual interpretation of events. Clearly these concepts are too hard for most high school level history classes. Although I agree in that many US history books have information an interpretations that was generally collect a long time ago and most recent historical efforts to understand the 15th-19th century American history could really use updating.

[seemslikeadream]

33. picking and choosing what history to teach can also be very deceptive

[reggie the dog]

48. Yes it is

us history teachers make sure of it.

[Iris]

2. I was just thinking I've been taxed without representation for 8 years.

I live in a Republican area, we had a Republican President and Congress, but if I had tried to protest, I'd have been called a traitor and anti-American.

[seabeyond]

3. that is such a lame conclusion you come to. few, not many, protested yesterday.

doesnt matter if they watch an event today, .... seeing exactly how it happens, ergo learned, they will change it to a falsehood to meet their agenda. so really, regardless of education school may provide, it merely proves if someone is not willing to learn, they will not.

i hope you post is done in cheek, cause really it shows nothing but stupid, and may be the result of school..... nah, wont blame school. just your own agenda driven message

[HillbillyBob]

13. no matter, the protesters were the lame ones

We really do need to go back to teaching reality in school.
I got a good public education and I learned to learn and grasp the difference between fantasy and reality.
Those foolish crazed people have had 30 years of repukanism to go on with its feed back loop.
Just because some are crazy does not mean we should stop trying.
I also realise that the 'history' we were taught was skewed, I even had a clue then that the 'whiners' write the history. It is time we the sane and adult took the keys to the asylum away from the rpukes.

It is just too damn bad the Raygun the demented opened up the asylums and let them run loose, we need to round them up again, they should not be too hard to find, just start with the Repbublic files in the voters registration offices.

[seabeyond]

15. ha... and yet still you blame schools, instead of a party of followers that

refuse knowledge, informtaion, education....

rollin eyes.

[HillbillyBob]

27. I guess you have a comprehension problem

believe whatever the hell you want to it don't make a difference to me, because like those protesters yesterday you'll believe whatever you imagine anyway.
The fact that our educational system has been gutted is at fault, there is a fine difference in blaming the education system and what has been done to it.

[seabeyond]

30. i guess buying into the rw spew that our educational system has been gutted

means little to you

i actually have children in the educational system learning a great deal. but then it is cause the expectation adn demand for academic excellence is high in my house.

[reggie the dog]

49. We do use Zinn to teach history

The people protesting who did not understand why they were there are just manipulated idiots. They probably put forth little if any effort to every understand the history of their country or the history of regulating the economy.

[roody]

20. I received a good public education too, but I was not

taught real history.

[Johonny]

35. The majority of American voted for Bush in 2004

Most of the people yesterday believe they are well informed. They did not create these ideas themselves. They don't refuse to learn or are simply willing to accept to totally false. Someone taught them these things. The concepts pushed by the Republican party since Reagan (or in the name of Reagan since Reagan's actual presidency was vastly different than many seem to remember it to be) were on full displace yesterday. The people that protested yesterday just didn't appear from nowhere. These are concepts developed over the last 30 years. These are concepts that helped sweep Republicans into power in the house and finally took congress by storm. Many Americans learned a very harsh lesson the past 8 years. Clearly some Americans never learned and may never learn the lesson. Education isn't just at school. In modern society education includes the press, internet, parents, school system, TV...

[Winterblues]

5. USA..USA..USA..USA..USA..USA..

What else does anyone need but a good chant? We're number 1..We're number 1..I guess at killing but one thing for sure it isn't education..

[Tyler Generation]

7. It's the education system's faul the morans can't learn history?

You can't force learning on the anti-intellectuals, don't bother trying. That's the M O of these people, they all harbor feelings of rage from being too stupid for basic schooling.

[reggie the dog]

50. I agree with you 100 percent.

As a teacher I know that there is no point in trying to teach kids if they do not value education.

[Johonny]

61. I think you have to try.

Most people want to learn. Almost all the people that march yesterday learned those ideas somewhere. They didn't just think them up out of the blue.

[Yukari Yakumo]

8. Don't worry

Most of the Tea-baggars dropped out by the 7th grade.

[Norquist Nemesis]

9. Tsk! You're being an intellectural elitist!

*wink*

[seabeyond]

14. how can poster be an intellectual elitist with the blame solely on educational system.... if this

isnt the funniest way to attack academics... ergo the intellectual elitist

[Norquist Nemesis]

18. ummm....try again

It wasn't an attack on the poster.

[seabeyond]

21. i understand it wasnt. mine was an attack on poster and your post suggesting

... i understand in humor.... that he is intellectual elitist as the post is about bashing the very educational system that the elitist come from

geeesh, lol

[Lorax]

10. Teachers fault.

Surely it's the teacher's fault. They must have been too busy with their feet up on their desks taking all those cushy coffee breaks and laughing about their union privileges to actually teach their students. Yeah, that's it.

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

[seabeyond]

16. must be... lordy, this is the worst of the attack public school threads. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

41. I love that sig line!!

[ulysses]

46. no doubt!

I may have to steal that.

[RayOfHope]

44. I love your sig line too n/t

[Arkansas Granny]

11. Judging from some of the signs we've seen pictured, you might want to

add spelling to your list.

[EFerrari]

12. No. Yesterday we saw what happens to people who reject public education. n/t

[seabeyond]

17. ya.... high five. thank you. n/t

[reggie the dog]

51. not just public education

education in general. People who are happy and proud to be stupid and who do not understand why anyone would try to think anything through.

[Canuckistanian]

19. Schools should teach a "Media Awareness" class

With the rampant lying, exaggerating and politicization of almost EVERYTHING that's on TV and radio these days, it's a wonder that anyone knows what's REALLY going on.

[seabeyond]

22. or the parent can. i started with my kids when they were old enough to buy into the

cereal so good to die for, when it is a piece of crap product.

school cannot teach all things. surely a parent can educate their child in a thing or two

[Canuckistanian]

25. Most parents aren't like us

TV has become the new babysitter. Sometimes the parents don't even realize that they're being lied to every day.

When I was in grade 9, we all had to study a unit on advertising. We learned all the deceptive tactics, the categorization of psychological tricks and how to research facts.

I still use it to this day.

[seabeyond]

29. i did somewhere in my schooling too, maybe 9th psychology class, dont remember. BUT

living in the good ole panhandle of texas for WAY too long..... and after 8 yrs of bullshit bushco lies and now the beyond outrageous of fox news sinse obama got in, i am done with the thought that anything can be done with these people. they willingly lie to themselves to buy into the lie to hate, and to go after liberals and obama. there is also the point when we have got to quit beating ourselves over the head trying to educate. THEY DONT WANT TO BE EDUCATED

but to blame school system, i wont do. that is what these assholes have been doing for two decades, for the intellectual elitism the poster above states, to take down our schools, so we dont have the educated

[reggie the dog]

52. ahhhh TV

something that has not even been turned on in my house for nearly the past month.

[EFerrari]

26. They used to have Mass Media courses in high school.

I wonder if they do any more.

[havocmom]

28. Not just education, those people all had parents

How the hell did they grow up so unable to think for themselves? Nobody thought to raise them to be competent, functioning members of society?

Don't even get me started on neglect of mental health in our society.

[reggie the dog]

53. No, their parents taught them to shut up and do as they are told

[4_TN_TITANS]

31. Solution - throw stones at public education.

Kids ARE taught these things, but when there's no away-from-school reinforcement or further explanations of their significance, the information is lost. Ignorance tends to breed ignorance, we can't expect parents who could care less about these concepts to raise bright and savy kids who do.

Glad the wife (a teacher) didn't see this post!

[Johonny]

36. I don't disagree with you

Education comes from a broad spectrum of places.

[seabeyond]

37. 8th grade science teacher teaching evolution. student says... dont believe

teacher said.... you are allowed to your own opinion and continued on with the lesson in evolution.

my son was just relating this story to me at the beginning of week.

now per poster, he will exclaim that it is the schools lack of teaching. i dare to say, it is the unwillingness of the student to learn.

[Johonny]

38. I disagree

I would say the education system has failed this student. Because I have an expansive belief in what the education system is. I believe it includes not only the teacher, the school, the state curriculum, but also the parents, the media, the larger social structures such as religious institutions. The student in this case isn't unwilling to learn, he just believes he has already learned. Someone in the system has failed him.

[seabeyond]

39. oh well geeez. put down education system failure and include all of society in that

little circle.

ok

you got me

someone, somewhere failed to educate this child

[Johonny]

59. I think it is a society problem

You can't just solve it with better teachers, or better curriculum. I think you have to address why parents aren't encouraging their kids to be active in school or why the media doesn't openly question false statements? Why do religions openly and blatantly push anti-educational ideas? These are troubling things that won't be solved by teachers. Yet they clearly are part of the educational system. A kid that denies evolution before he's even ever offered it in school had to learn that somewhere. More than likely he's had that reinforced from several different sources.

[reggie the dog]

54. you are allowed to harbour your own ill informed opinion

but if you use it on one of my tests, you will fail!

[seabeyond]

55. yup.... good for you

and of course that is the way it works. i love your posts all the way thru the thread

[reggie the dog]

57. thanks, as a teacher I know first hand

that the education system is made up of many, MANY teachers, superintendents, administrators etc. who do care about education the nations children.

[seabeyond]

58. you know, it is such a weak argument to blame the teachers. as if they have all

collectively decided to be "bad" educators.

i have been a part of kids education and had two poor teachers. one in a private school, and on a 7th grade math teacher. and yet, kid still had the responsibility to learn, regardless of the teacher. two kids in system, .... and two teachers (one lazy, one personality). ALL the rest, and adm have worked butts off for my kids.

i just really resent this uninformed, following sheep syndrome, education system is a failure bullshit. if a kid is failing in school, look to the parent

[reggie the dog]

62. I can really only remember 2 "bad" teachers

one was sexist and racist, the other just burned out from her job but doing her last couple of years before retirement. All the other teachers I had were great or did good solid work.

[BrklynLiberal]

34. Keeping the masses as ignorant as possible has been part of the RW agenda for decades.

Funding for schools, teachers, extra-curricula activities, enrichment, etc are the first things cut.
This was a lesson the RW learned a while ago. It is about politics being local..get the real nutjobs on the local school boards FIRST, and work your way up from there.
It seems to have been a somewhat successful strategy. The fact that creationism....under any pseudonym you may want to use...is even being debated as a subject for public school...shows how far into the education system these folks have slimed their way....

[uppityperson]

40. Not to mention spelling. eom

[Coffee and Cake]

42. Good point--Time to eliminate the DoE and NCLB

[jazzjunkysue]

43. Wrong. There are alot of intelligent bigots in the world.You're confusing

selfishness with learning capacity.

And don't forget that people are easily recruited to follow anything when it's on TV. That's the point of TV: Control of the masses.

There will always be people who will sell their sanity and free will to a strong leader.

The white establishment feels threatened when a black man attains this level of authority and popularity. The various names they attach to their fear is irrelevant.

The establishment is scared, and this is the best sign that the world is really changing.

I'd be more worried if they weren't out there making up crazy shit. It would mean more of the same.

[ulysses]

45. other things for which to blame public ed:

Michael Bolton
CheezWiz
Rainy days and Mondays
High-fructose corn syrup

[amborin]

47. partly agree, but it's the culture that's largely to blame, including who's in charge of curriculum

[mudesi]

56. They Also Can't Spell

[dysfunctional press]

60. REQUIRE civics in every year of high school.

even if it means a longer school day- and hopefully it will.